Decreasing the rigor?

[skimomma]

I need some help working through an issue I am having with 9 yo dd.

 

I believe dd is quite intelligent. And I have been choosing the curriculum and topics we cover based on this belief. However, despite her intelligence, she also can be quite lazy. Her schoolwork can be perfect, but is usually riddled with mistakes because she just wants to "get it done." And she tends to not learn from her mistakes. When correcting her work, she is looking for the quickest path to "done," not the retention of knowledge. Her attitude is often poor. She is not disobedient, just mopey. Dragging her through each day is becoming very tedious. And I am afraid our relationship is beginning to suffer. This has been going on for at least a year. I think I have to change something.

 

My first inclination is to scale back the rigor. Specifically in math and Latin. We have been using Singapore Math from the beginning. I am thinking of looking into a less rigorous program. I love that she is (supposed to be) learning all of these different and abstract ways to approach math, but if she simply does not care and I am dragging her through it. Is it time for a get-it-done, no frills math? Anyone been through this? And we are using Latin for Children. I had dreams of this being the jumping off point for a conversational language and other goodies. But again, I am dragging her. I am thinking of just letting it go. Other topics can be scaled back by not going as in depth.

 

Has anyone out re-evaluated at the grammar stage and decided to take a less-rigorous approach to education based on your child's attitude? I worry about limiting her future potential by taking a different path. But I also worry about burning out and sending her to school because I simply cannot drag her through 12 grades of the education I would like to see her have.

[Lolly]

You may find that decreasing rigor might just result in...more foot dragging. So, what do you do? You can try a different approach to educating her. Maybe more physically involved learning. (That's a bit difficult in math and Latin!) You can try allowing her to choose her books (but you choose the subjects). Maybe she would be more interested if she has been the one to decide which math book she uses. Latin is great. I am a firm believer in its powers of magic...but it is not required. Drop it if it is making life miserable. One thing about homeschooling is that you need to make it fit YOUR needs. If the two of you do best with a quick math lesson then doing everything else by taking a field trip and keeping a journal (where you can work on grammar points) of some sort, do that. If she likes to learn watching videos...do it. There truly is more than one way to get this job accomplished!

[coffeegal]

Also, just because you back off with a 9yo doesn't mean that the same child at 13 won't be a go-getter when it comes to school. Preserve her love of learning. Try some different approaches. Relax and have some fun. Then when your dd is in middle school, gradually reintroduce the rigor into her learning. Several friends of mine were relaxed through elementary school before increasing the rigor in middle and high school. Their kids are doing well. :001_cool:

[chiguirre]

As far as math goes, I'd decide based on the kinds of mistakes you're seeing. If they indicate that she doesn't really understand the concepts, I'd choose a more straight forward program. SM asks kids to learn concepts quickly and apply them to new situations. That's too much for lots of kids and makes math a confusing misery-filled quagmire. I'd look at MUS if she needs to back up and relearn the fundamentals or Math Mammoth if she just needs clearer explanations and fewer conceptual leaps. If she's making sloppy calculation errors, I wouldn't switch programs, I'd just circle the ones that are wrong and make her do them again. This works well when Trinqueta hurries too much and doesn't think about what she's doing. Having to go back and redo problems and waste her own time doing it usually takes care of the situation. Of course, T's 9 and it takes many reps of this lesson before it sinks in. She'll tell me she knows she should work slower and check her answers, but the temptation of rushing to be done and go play is hard to resist. I'm hoping she'll internalize this lesson soon, but I was still making careless mistakes in Calculus so I'm not holding my breath.

[Lori D.]

Just a quick aside to start with: Singapore is about as scaled back and "just the facts, ma'am" as it gets for math programs; not sure how you'd get much simplier there.

 

You might want to take a listen to Susan Wise Bauer's lecture on Homeschooling the Real Child, with lots of ideas and techniques for getting through rough patches of different types.

 

To help your relationship, how much do you get out and interact with other homeschoolers? A weekly co-op or PE day, or field trip with other homeschool families. Also, what FUN things do you and DD do that are not school related? Baking cookies together, having a "tea and poetry" morning, together going for nature hikes, making cards/stamping/scrapbooking or other hobby that is mutually enjoyable can really help DD not just associate you with school.

 

How much physical exercise is included in your day? Many students have a much better attitude if they run hard or work out physically in some way FIRST, and then do school. What about mid morning protein snack to pick up the mopey attitude? See "Crying over subjects she's GOOD at!?" for more ideas along this line.

 

 

Sometimes bright students mope if the work is not rigorous enough -- it's boring and no challenge. If that's the case, then maybe try adding Beast Academy for more math challenge; encourage doing a science project that takes several weeks of daily involvement -- and enter it in a science fair so there is outside accountability/encouragement to keep at it and care about doing a good job.

 

What about once a month, having her put together a diorama, skit, oral presentation, power point, video, or other way of putting together things she'd learned to present to the whole family or to grandma or to neighbor friends on something she's been learning? That also encourages DD to take ownership and put more effort into it when someone other than "just mom" is going to see it. ;)

 

Also agreeing with Lolly -- what new ways of learning can you include in the day? Educational videos, games, and hands-on items often go over well. Is there something DD enjoys (American History; science experiments; art projects; playing musical instrument; historical dress-up/recreation)? Then schedule extra time for that, and encourage DD to explore.

 

And finally, alas, "loving to learn" may just not high on the list for all students. I very much love to learn new things; school was a chore all 12 years to BOTH my DSs. :( In that case, a mixed bag of tricks can help (check out the ideas in the Wacky Wednesday, need goofy activities past thread). Also, one mom recently posted how her DS of a similar age worked for mini-marshmallows, one per math problem ;). Or, this may even involve some disciplinary things to get the attitude on track...

 

BEST of luck in getting past the doldrums of age 9! Warmly, Lori D.

[G5052]

As always Lori D. lays it out so very well. This sort of thing can have many causes and remedies.

 

I'm not a fan of ever backing off on the rigor of schooling in the 3 R's for a capable, healthy child past 2nd or 3rd grade. Maybe for a brief time, but you have to somehow keep them on the track if they capable. The basics of reading, writing, and math are very important. You're gradually building habits and ways of thinking that are critical to success later. And yes, the Latin can be put aside. I tried doing Latin with mine when they were younger, and finally decided that it needed to wait until they were more independent. And that has worked just fine for us.

 

I have a relative who has scaled back over and over with a kid of theirs who is about the same age as one of mine. And he does very little schoolwork at 16, and I have to wonder what will happen when he graduates. At a certain point it catches up with you.

[Hunter]

Choosing a narrower math curriculum with less conceptual work is not synonymous with less rigor. That's apples and oranges. I'm not saying you should or should not choose a narrower and/or less conceptual math curriculum, but you might like reading How to Tutor by Samuel Blumenfeld.

[Lolly]

As always Lori D. lays it out so very well. This sort of thing can have many causes and remedies.

 

I'm not a fan of ever backing off on the rigor of schooling in the 3 R's for a capable, healthy child past 2nd or 3rd grade. Maybe for a brief time, but you have to somehow keep them on the track if they capable. The basics of reading, writing, and math are very important. You're gradually building habits and ways of thinking that are critical to success later. And yes, the Latin can be put aside. I tried doing Latin with mine when they were younger, and finally decided that it needed to wait until they were more independent. And that has worked just fine for us.

 

I have a relative who has scaled back over and over with a kid of theirs who is about the same age as one of mine. And he does very little schoolwork at 16, and I have to wonder what will happen when he graduates. At a certain point it catches up with you.

 

I have a dd whom I had to cut back with. At 16, she did an embarrassingly small amount of schoolwork. She is finishing up her junior year of college with almost a 4.0. It didn't hurt her at all. If anything, it probably was good that I didn't push it. It has allowed her to have a zeal for her work that is incredible at this point.

[2squared]

May I ask how much work you are doing with her and which materials you are using? I ask because my kids don't mind rigor, but they do mind long school days. To that end, we are very efficient and focused. I don't add in extras, and I don't include any projects in their school days.

[G5052]

 

I have a dd whom I had to cut back with. At 16, she did an embarrassingly small amount of schoolwork. She is finishing up her junior year of college with almost a 4.0. It didn't hurt her at all. If anything, it probably was good that I didn't push it. It has allowed her to have a zeal for her work that is incredible at this point.

 

I would imagine that she was also quite literate by then though. In the case I cited, the student can't put together a reasonable sentence much less a paragraph. His mom has pretty much given up on grammar and writing entirely. Maybe he'll pick up later, but the statistics aren't hopeful.

[Lolly]

 

I would imagine that she was also quite literate by then though. In the case I cited, the student can't put together a reasonable sentence much less a paragraph. His mom has pretty much given up on grammar and writing entirely. Maybe he'll pick up later, but the statistics aren't hopeful.

 

 

 

Yeah, I didn't back off with her until she was 10. And, yes, she was unbelievably literate at that age. Her grammar is...naturally perfect.

[skimomma]

As far as math goes, I'd decide based on the kinds of mistakes you're seeing. If they indicate that she doesn't really understand the concepts, I'd choose a more straight forward program. SM asks kids to learn concepts quickly and apply them to new situations. That's too much for lots of kids and makes math a confusing misery-filled quagmire. I'd look at MUS if she needs to back up and relearn the fundamentals or Math Mammoth if she just needs clearer explanations and fewer conceptual leaps. If she's making sloppy calculation errors, I wouldn't switch programs, I'd just circle the ones that are wrong and make her do them again. This works well when Trinqueta hurries too much and doesn't think about what she's doing. Having to go back and redo problems and waste her own time doing it usually takes care of the situation. Of course, T's 9 and it takes many reps of this lesson before it sinks in. She'll tell me she knows she should work slower and check her answers, but the temptation of rushing to be done and go play is hard to resist. I'm hoping she'll internalize this lesson soon, but I was still making careless mistakes in Calculus so I'm not holding my breath.

 

I was away from the computer for a bit so now I am going to try to answer some of these questions.

 

Math is the "biggie" and really is the best example of the problem we are having with all subjects. She is great at math and catches on quickly. It is not a conceptual problem. It is sloppiness. There are two major ways things go wrong. The first is that she will set the problem up correctly but then mess up a simple math operation which throws the whole problem off. We all do that sometimes, but it is so frequent that it can only be from not being focussed and rushing. The second math problem is either not reading the problem carefully enough or not even reading it completely before going off and trying to solve it. Making matters worse, she will often read a problem too quickly then declare she "cannot do it, it is too hard." When I sit down and ask her to read each sentence of the problem aloud and slowly, she 95% of the time can do it on her own.

 

This is starting to creep up to 50% of her math work at this point.

 

She is, and always has been, required to correct her mistakes on her own time. She has been spending alarming chunks of her afternoon redoing her math. And since she is double miserable that she has to give up her free time and DO MATH, she drags even more and continues to make mistakes. A new and particularly annoying habit she has developed is to try some other combination of the numbers and operations seemingly at random just to appear as though she "corrected" the work. When I ask a few key questions, it is clear she did not re-read the problem or attempt to see where she went wrong.

 

I see evidence of this in other areas. She was a mostly self-taught early reader and I notice now anytime I ask her to read something aloud, she will often skip words or substitute words in what appears to be haste.

[skimomma]

Just a quick aside to start with: Singapore is about as scaled back and "just the facts, ma'am" as it gets for math programs; not sure how you'd get much simplier there.

 

You might want to take a listen to Susan Wise Bauer's lecture on Homeschooling the Real Child, with lots of ideas and techniques for getting through rough patches of different types.

 

To help your relationship, how much do you get out and interact with other homeschoolers? A weekly co-op or PE day, or field trip with other homeschool families. Also, what FUN things do you and DD do that are not school related? Baking cookies together, having a "tea and poetry" morning, together going for nature hikes, making cards/stamping/scrapbooking or other hobby that is mutually enjoyable can really help DD not just associate you with school.

 

How much physical exercise is included in your day? Many students have a much better attitude if they run hard or work out physically in some way FIRST, and then do school. What about mid morning protein snack to pick up the mopey attitude? See "Crying over subjects she's GOOD at!?" for more ideas along this line.

 

 

Sometimes bright students mope if the work is not rigorous enough -- it's boring and no challenge. If that's the case, then maybe try adding Beast Academy for more math challenge; encourage doing a science project that takes several weeks of daily involvement -- and enter it in a science fair so there is outside accountability/encouragement to keep at it and care about doing a good job.

 

What about once a month, having her put together a diorama, skit, oral presentation, power point, video, or other way of putting together things she'd learned to present to the whole family or to grandma or to neighbor friends on something she's been learning? That also encourages DD to take ownership and put more effort into it when someone other than "just mom" is going to see it. ;)

 

Also agreeing with Lolly -- what new ways of learning can you include in the day? Educational videos, games, and hands-on items often go over well. Is there something DD enjoys (American History; science experiments; art projects; playing musical instrument; historical dress-up/recreation)? Then schedule extra time for that, and encourage DD to explore.

 

And finally, alas, "loving to learn" may just not high on the list for all students. I very much love to learn new things; school was a chore all 12 years to BOTH my DSs. :( In that case, a mixed bag of tricks can help (check out the ideas in the Wacky Wednesday, need goofy activities past thread). Also, one mom recently posted how her DS of a similar age worked for mini-marshmallows, one per math problem ;). Or, this may even involve some disciplinary things to get the attitude on track...

 

BEST of luck in getting past the doldrums of age 9! Warmly, Lori D.

 

There is so much here....Thanks! To answer some questions, she has many fun and social outlets. This might even be part of the problem. A big reason we homeschool is to allow more freedom to pursue nonacademic pursuits. She has many friends and gets together with them often. She participates in several activities. In addition, my dh has a "fun" job and dd of tens is allowed to accompany him when time permits. I think the not-funness of school is part of her complaint.

 

I agree Singapore is not exactly rigorous. The rigor is in the Challenging Word Problems and the Intensive Practice. We use both. She breezes through the regular workbook and rarely has mistakes. If it is plug and chug, she is great. It is when the problems require thought and proper application that is seems to be too much of a "hassle" for her. I was thinking of ditching the extras and sticking with the bare bones of the program, or switching to something else that would also be simple. Dh and I are "math people" so the very thought kills me....

 

I am afraid I am not a fun mom. I never have been and attempts on my part to be so have fallen pretty flat. We do things together often like cooking, exercising, walking, reading, hiking, etc.... But I know I lack in making school at all animated. I take school seriously and I guess I would like her to as well. She has most of her afternoons completely free, I do not think it is asking that much. I certainly can jazz it up a little and we have talked about that, but it requires cutting into the free time which dd holds pretty dear.

 

Our whole family exercises daily, often more than once. Dd is in two competitive sports and we have several activities that we do all together regularly. Another reason for the free time.

[skimomma]

 

I have a dd whom I had to cut back with. At 16, she did an embarrassingly small amount of schoolwork. She is finishing up her junior year of college with almost a 4.0. It didn't hurt her at all. If anything, it probably was good that I didn't push it. It has allowed her to have a zeal for her work that is incredible at this point.

 

This is good to know.....in case I cannot find a good solution soon.

[skimomma]

May I ask how much work you are doing with her and which materials you are using? I ask because my kids don't mind rigor, but they do mind long school days. To that end, we are very efficient and focused. I don't add in extras, and I don't include any projects in their school days.

 

 

I am pretty organized with a continual eye to managing our time well so we are free to do other things. We "school" four days a week from 8am-noonish. On those days, dd will have anywhere from 0-60 minutes of independent work to do on her own in the afternoon. This is typically correcting mistakes from earlier. On good days, there is none. Lately that 60 minute max has been creeping up and up and up. The fifth day is reserved for her violin lesson, errands, appointments, and playdates.

 

I am not a extras kind of person. Dd is clearly already miserable so I am just trying to get what has to be done in as little time as possible while still being effective. We used to do projects from SOTW and extra reading books. Those just became too much of a chore and she never seemed to enjoy them so we quit.

 

This is what we are using:

 

Latin for Children B

Suzuki Violin

SOTW 4

Sequential Spelling 3

FLL 4

WWE 4

Singapore Math 4B

Science - outsourced to a weekly class at this time

[skimomma]

And lastly, I am just feeling sad and like I am failing her. There does not seem to be any love of learning here. She is not enjoying this. I know many/most kids do not enjoy school. I am quite sure she would enjoy more "fun" or a performance on my part....but when it came down to focussing and actually applying the knowledge, we would be right back where we started.

 

This rushing, lack of focus, and lack of attention creeps into everything else. She is constantly losing her belongings (then freaking out about it). She will see a project in a magazine and get all set up to do it, then give up after 10 minutes because it is "to hard" or she runs into a challenge. She has been playing violin since she was 3 and unless I am sitting right with her, she will play through mistakes and just keep going.....or worse yet, skip parts she knows will be a struggle.

 

She is just not very motivated. And I am not sure I can drag her much further.

[CyndiLJ]

I risk getting flamed here, but I am going to say it anyway...some kids don't need all the rigor, and our dreams for them are just that...OUR dreams for them. Latin, advanced math, conceptual this and that...for some kids, this is just not who they are. Reading these boards has, at times, been very difficult for me. That is my problem, not due to what others have said. Sure, it would be nice to teach Latin or some of these other things that some deem a necessity, but the truth is, there are tens of thousands of kids going to college straight out of inadequate public school educations...Latin or not. Sometimes, it is easy to lose sight of that fact, that we often are homeschooling very average kids because we want SO much for them to succeed, but taking Latin doesn't guarantee success anymore than 4 years of a foreign language does, or AP Chemistry. Teaching the whole child, helping them find the way to love learning and yet muscle through the tough stuff in life that isn't always fun, that is more important. Having a relationship that is rock solid when the teen years hit, that is waaaayy more important than any other subject you can teach. Keeping our dreams well matched with who are kids are is important as well, and it can be hard to do when reading a board designed for classical education that just happens to have become THE "go to" board for just about anyone who is home educating, even if not using the classical approach.

 

A child who is lazy does need to have the character issue addressed. I am not at all saying there isn't real truth in that. But sometimes I wonder if it isn't that we just take this all a little too seriously, and lose the richness that homeschooling can bring that lasts forever...relationship. After all, it isn't going to destroy a kids' potential if they have to take a few extra courses in college to make up for something that might not have been covered in homeschool. Sure, it'll cost a few bucks to do it, but that is NOTHING compared to what happens if we lose our child's heart. That is irreversible. I try to homeschool rigorously, but due other issues we can't possibly expect to do what others do on the board here. But what I do try to remember is school is for a season, I am mom forever.

[skimomma]

I risk getting flamed here, but I am going to say it anyway...some kids don't need all the rigor, and our dreams for them are just that...OUR dreams for them. Latin, advanced math, conceptual this and that...for some kids, this is just not who they are. Reading these boards has, at times, been very difficult for me. That is my problem, not due to what others have said. Sure, it would be nice to teach Latin or some of these other things that some deem a necessity, but the truth is, there are tens of thousands of kids going to college straight out of inadequate public school educations...Latin or not. Sometimes, it is easy to lose sight of that fact, that we often are homeschooling very average kids because we want SO much for them to succeed, but taking Latin doesn't guarantee success anymore than 4 years of a foreign language does, or AP Chemistry. Teaching the whole child, helping them find the way to love learning and yet muscle through the tough stuff in life that isn't always fun, that is more important. Having a relationship that is rock solid when the teen years hit, that is waaaayy more important than any other subject you can teach. Keeping our dreams well matched with who are kids are is important as well, and it can be hard to do when reading a board designed for classical education that just happens to have become THE "go to" board for just about anyone who is home educating, even if not using the classical approach.

 

A child who is lazy does need to have the character issue addressed. I am not at all saying there isn't real truth in that. But sometimes I wonder if it isn't that we just take this all a little too seriously, and lose the richness that homeschooling can bring that lasts forever...relationship. After all, it isn't going to destroy a kids' potential if they have to take a few extra courses in college to make up for something that might not have been covered in homeschool. Sure, it'll cost a few bucks to do it, but that is NOTHING compared to what happens if we lose our child's heart. That is irreversible. I try to homeschool rigorously, but due other issues we can't possibly expect to do what others do on the board here. But what I do try to remember is school is for a season, I am mom forever.

 

 

I cannot tell you how thankful I am that you posted this! I am going to read it to my dh.

[JenC3]

Your dd sounds a lot like mine. Right now she just doesn't care about certain subjects. She dwaddles with Math everyday. I've had to cut back. She's compliant kid, but I can see her love of school has dimmed. I think some is pre-puberty hormones, but I'm also trying to make some changes to next year. She is a HUGE science kid so we are going to focus on that and do lots of our reading/writing about science. I'm only able to have so much fun and get the work done fo the 2 kids and I'll have an infan soon and my dd2 will be home this summer and maybe for K too. We have been incorporating more games: Timeline, strategy, and math games.

[chiguirre]

 

I agree Singapore is not exactly rigorous. The rigor is in the Challenging Word Problems and the Intensive Practice. We use both. She breezes through the regular workbook and rarely has mistakes. If it is plug and chug, she is great. It is when the problems require thought and proper application that is seems to be too much of a "hassle" for her. I was thinking of ditching the extras and sticking with the bare bones of the program, or switching to something else that would also be simple. Dh and I are "math people" so the very thought kills me....

 

 

I need to help T with IP and CWP. She can usually do the "regular" section on her own, but she needs me to sit with her and sometimes help her think through the "challenging" section of both of those. I try to save those sections for times when Geezle has tutoring and we can go to Starbucks and tackle them. There's something about a special time alone with me and a latte that makes brain draining math more acceptable. I haven't worried too much about helping with those sections because they are really challenging. I have to remind myself sometimes that an A in Singapore is 70%. It's not really reasonable to expect T to do these sections on her own without me there to answer questions, listen to her ideas, help her formulate her thoughts, throw her a hint sometimes and even admit when I'm stumped too.

[CyndiLJ]

 

I cannot tell you how thankful I am that you posted this! I am going to read it to my dh.

 

 

Then I am glad I risked posting it. It's so easy to lose sight of the other reasons we homeschool, that in some circles are the more important ones. Hang in there!

[AimeeM]

Brilliant Cyndi.

 

OP, I have your daughter, in two years. My dd is 11. Bright, gifted in maths and sciences... but lazy as all get out. She hates school. If I were to ever try an unschool approach with this child, it would be a disaster. She wants to go to college only so she can work in the field of her dreams - but she never minces words in one area... SHE HATES SCHOOL. She doesn't care for the path she must take to get where she so badly wants to end up. If she could skip the learning part, click her heels, and end up "all educated and stuff" (as she so nicely says), she would in a heart beat. She learns because she has to, there is no real joy in it for her.

So this next year, we're taking a step back in rigor. I say "rigor" because I chose the materials we use now specifically because I know she's bright and I was told she "needed a challenge". She will still be working a couple years ahead in maths and sciences, but I'm choosing "less rigorous" MATERIALS. We're dumping conceptual math and going with Teaching Textbooks Algebra and keeping with Ellen McHenry (although I would argue that these are quite rigorous - Autumn just doesn't think so... which is the cool thing, lol). I keep toying with the idea of Holt for science with Kolbe plans, but I just don't think she would care. At all. Latin? I doubt it. She wants to take an online ASL class and since it's her one request, I'll definitely fit it in there.

To a tee, OP, your post describes my daughter - my dd does the work, understands the work, rushes to get it done, careless mistakes, mopey, not disobedient at all - just not joyful.

I have no real advice, because I have one too... just here to commiserate.

I risk getting flamed here, but I am going to say it anyway...some kids don't need all the rigor, and our dreams for them are just that...OUR dreams for them. Latin, advanced math, conceptual this and that...for some kids, this is just not who they are. Reading these boards has, at times, been very difficult for me. That is my problem, not due to what others have said. Sure, it would be nice to teach Latin or some of these other things that some deem a necessity, but the truth is, there are tens of thousands of kids going to college straight out of inadequate public school educations...Latin or not. Sometimes, it is easy to lose sight of that fact, that we often are homeschooling very average kids because we want SO much for them to succeed, but taking Latin doesn't guarantee success anymore than 4 years of a foreign language does, or AP Chemistry. Teaching the whole child, helping them find the way to love learning and yet muscle through the tough stuff in life that isn't always fun, that is more important. Having a relationship that is rock solid when the teen years hit, that is waaaayy more important than any other subject you can teach. Keeping our dreams well matched with who are kids are is important as well, and it can be hard to do when reading a board designed for classical education that just happens to have become THE "go to" board for just about anyone who is home educating, even if not using the classical approach.

 

A child who is lazy does need to have the character issue addressed. I am not at all saying there isn't real truth in that. But sometimes I wonder if it isn't that we just take this all a little too seriously, and lose the richness that homeschooling can bring that lasts forever...relationship. After all, it isn't going to destroy a kids' potential if they have to take a few extra courses in college to make up for something that might not have been covered in homeschool. Sure, it'll cost a few bucks to do it, but that is NOTHING compared to what happens if we lose our child's heart. That is irreversible. I try to homeschool rigorously, but due other issues we can't possibly expect to do what others do on the board here. But what I do try to remember is school is for a season, I am mom forever.

 

[Embassy]

What does she enjoy? Your list doesn't seem too rigorous, but I could see how it wouldn't work well with some kids. Is she highly imaginative? I ask because I have a highly imaginative child who does some of the things you describe. A rigorous education doesn't mean you have to use certain materials. Use what works for your kid. You may need difference resources or a different approach, but if I were in your position I would change something.

[Ellie]

I need some help working through an issue I am having with 9 yo dd.

 

I believe dd is quite intelligent. And I have been choosing the curriculum and topics we cover based on this belief. However, despite her intelligence, she also can be quite lazy. Her schoolwork can be perfect, but is usually riddled with mistakes because she just wants to "get it done." And she tends to not learn from her mistakes. When correcting her work, she is looking for the quickest path to "done," not the retention of knowledge. Her attitude is often poor. She is not disobedient, just mopey. Dragging her through each day is becoming very tedious. And I am afraid our relationship is beginning to suffer. This has been going on for at least a year. I think I have to change something.

 

All of us have a tendancy towards laziness, regardless of our intelligence.

 

Please don't make the mistake of assuming that because your is bright that she should automatically love doing formal academic stuff. In fact, very bright children (and adults) will often schlep through work that is too easy for them, even though of course they could do it correctly with one hand tied behind their backs. :-)

 

My first inclination is to scale back the rigor. Specifically in math and Latin. We have been using Singapore Math from the beginning. I am thinking of looking into a less rigorous program. I love that she is (supposed to be) learning all of these different and abstract ways to approach math, but if she simply does not care and I am dragging her through it. Is it time for a get-it-done, no frills math? Anyone been through this? And we are using Latin for Children. I had dreams of this being the jumping off point for a conversational language and other goodies. But again, I am dragging her. I am thinking of just letting it go. Other topics can be scaled back by not going as in depth.

 

But there can be a boatload of learning going on, learning that is still "rigorous," without its looking so much like formal academics.

 

Has anyone out re-evaluated at the grammar stage and decided to take a less-rigorous approach to education based on your child's attitude? I worry about limiting her future potential by taking a different path. But I also worry about burning out and sending her to school because I simply cannot drag her through 12 grades of the education I would like to see her have.

 

But her future potential might require you to take a *different* approach, not one that is less rigorous.

 

Neither of my children ever finished a math book at home, yet both aced their college-level maths (algebra 1 and 2, statistics), and could easily have gone on to higher maths if they'd needed to for their degrees (they did not, although younger dd considered taking calculus because she thought it would be "fun").

 

Perhaps a year or two of more child-led, creative, totally different learning will satisfy her creative intelligence such that she'll be ready to buckle down for more academic-looking instruction when she's 12 or 13.

[AKshanmar]

Visit the website howtolearn.com and have her take the learning style test. It actually changed our live drastically. I made changes that really made my kids enjoy learning again. My kids don't fall into the academic sphere of things. I really had to adjust. As they grow, some things fall by the wayside, things that I cherished, but had to let go. My really "school challenged" kid suddenly became brilliant when he discovered the automotive field. And so on.... She'll give you a better idea of her niche when things start to become more important to her. You are right, your relationship is most important. Shake things up, and see where you land!

[nansk]

Just to add, my dd gets bored with her Maths book from time-to-time. Then she tends to drag her feet. So I keep things interesting by mixing different programs. It has happened with Singapore Maths, Miquon and Math Mammoth.

[skimomma]

Thank you all. There is so much to think about! I know for sure that we are going to back off, starting today. I am not sure "rigor" was the correct word. Dd's education seems far more rigorous than mine was and what I see her schooled friends doing, but far from rigorous when compared to others here. I really do not know how I am going to change things yet but I want to find a way to allow more "space" to explore and be flexible. Just thinking about this all night, I have come to some realizations. Dd does not like to be hurried....she is a sniff the flowers kind of kid. I am NOT like that. This might be the very root of the problem. In my effort to cram in as many wonderful opportunities as possible, dd is suffering. I do have so many dreams for her. I want her to have all of the opportunities I did not. But then I look at my life and am happy with it.....I guess I did not need those opportunities after all. And like many, I feel the pressure of disapproval from peers and family. I feel pressured to make sure dd has better "outcomes" than she would in school to counter the disapproval. I just have to adjust what those "outcomes" are. I have a lot of thinking to do.

[Ellie]

Thank you all. There is so much to think about! I know for sure that we are going to back off, starting today. I am not sure "rigor" was the correct word. Dd's education seems far more rigorous than mine was and what I see her schooled friends doing, but far from rigorous when compared to others here. I really do not know how I am going to change things yet but I want to find a way to allow more "space" to explore and be flexible. Just thinking about this all night, I have come to some realizations. Dd does not like to be hurried....she is a sniff the flowers kind of kid. I am NOT like that. This might be the very root of the problem. In my effort to cram in as many wonderful opportunities as possible, dd is suffering. I do have so many dreams for her. I want her to have all of the opportunities I did not. But then I look at my life and am happy with it.....I guess I did not need those opportunities after all. And like many, I feel the pressure of disapproval from peers and family. I feel pressured to make sure dd has better "outcomes" than she would in school to counter the disapproval. I just have to adjust what those "outcomes" are. I have a lot of thinking to do.

 

 

But the *final* outcome is what's important, yes? The journey may be different, but if the final landing is the same, who cares where the journey took her on the way?

 

And don't let outsiders--that is, anyone except you and Mr. Skimomma--pressure you into doing anything that you don't think is best for your dd.

 

:grouphug:

[G5052]

But the *final* outcome is what's important, yes? The journey may be different, but if the final landing is the same, who cares where the journey took her on the way?

 

And don't let outsiders--that is, anyone except you and Mr. Skimomma--pressure you into doing anything that you don't think is best for your dd.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

Yes, this is parenting after all. As long as you are involved, big-picture thinker, you'll do fine.