Fathers disappear from households across America-article

[mommymilkies]

I know everyone likes to focus on teen parents, but come on. People of all ages do this. Seriously. There's no reason to point fingers and say all teens are stupid and looking to score welfare while ignoring the fact that men well into their 40's+ have done this for thousands of years.

[mommymilkies]

I picked a state totally at random. http://deadbeatsearch.baltimorecountymd.gov/

 

Ok, go through the above list of "worst" deadbeat offenders. How many are underage? Ok, so of the adults, how many teen moms have above age partners? Why don't more families go for statutory rape charges?

 

Relevant: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1074862,00.html

[Crimson Wife]

I know everyone likes to focus on teen parents, but come on. People of all ages do this. Seriously. There's no reason to point fingers and say all teens are stupid and looking to score welfare while ignoring the fact that men well into their 40's+ have done this for thousands of years.

 

:iagree:

My deadbeat cousin, the one who dropped out of college, blew through a sizable inheritance from his late father, and whom some in the family suspect may have been a drug dealer at one point is currently trying to have a baby with his girlfriend. He's 38. The girlfriend is a R.N. and none of us can figure out what she sees in him. :confused1:

[Murphy101]

That society thinks they should have shame about it is the stigma, Martha.

 

I don't know that I agree. The saying goes "the only thing worse than shame is being shameless."

 

There is a difference between shame/regret over mistakes and people being too busy looking down to help up and shamelessly purposely being a babymomma, especially with multiple baby daddies.

 

The first I completely agree that would be a stigma, and it is not something I see very much of at all these days.

 

The second, heck yes I wish it was a stigma at this point because it is ridiculously common and accepted and far too many areas of our society and it's a tragic disservice to the children born into those lives.

 

And the stigma should be for the men and the women.

 

I know everyone likes to focus on teen parents, but come on. People of all ages do this. Seriously. There's no reason to point fingers and say all teens are stupid and looking to score welfare while ignoring the fact that men well into their 40's+ have done this for thousands of years.

 

I completely agree.

 

ETA: except I would add that men have always been considered less than for doing it and most women tried to avoid such men. Now it almost seems as though women are purposely looking for them! Wth is up with that?!

[swellmomma]

Ideally, a child should have an excellent female role model and an excellent male role model constantly in their lives. However, I don't think those necessarily have to be the parents. The stigma against single parent and non-birthmommy-married-to-birthdaddy families is a bigger problem, IMO.

 

 

Yup! And that is all I can add to this thread without getting banned.

 

I am one of those women that those in this thread find to be below them and speak of so contemptuously. I may be a poor single mom that had kids without a husband/daddy in the picture, but I can tell you I have more class and I am a better parent than many out there. I am done. I will only be returning to the hive to tend to the quilt for a while.

[Hunter's Moon]

Incomplete posting.

[MedicMom]

It is not limited to the teen population, but that may be where it starts. I recently cared for a 37 year old pregnant with baby #9...with seven different fathers. Her oldest was 22. The woman was already a grandmother five times over.

When I was still in social work, I had 14 year old client who was trying to get pregnant. Her best friend, at 13, had just had a baby. The client's mother was 27.

My client wound up becoming pregnant by the boyfriend of the moment. He was 16.

 

Both cases were caucasian, if it matters. Low income.

 

The disability problem is dependent on where you live. The rural, small town I live in? Very few are scamming the disabity system. The city I work in? Everyone is on disability. For back pain, anxiety, whatever. I'm sure there are some legitimate cases, but I can only see so many 22 year olds collecting total disability for back problems before I start becoming skeptical. (Especially when I see them hanging around town, playing basketball, etc. I had a serious back injury that took me off work for a while when I was rear ended by a garbage truck. I didn't make it off the couch for weeks)

[Reeciecup]

I think welfare is a root cause of a lot of single parenting. Before welfare existed, parents married each other and did the best they could. Once welfare existed, mothers could get more money if there was no father involved. And they got a raise each time a new baby was added. Now that the dynamic has changed, and there's not much stigma to single parenting anymore, I don't how it could be changed back.

[Hunter's Moon]

I know everyone likes to focus on teen parents, but come on. People of all ages do this. Seriously. There's no reason to point fingers and say all teens are stupid and looking to score welfare while ignoring the fact that men well into their 40's+ have done this for thousands of years.

 

 

The only reason I focused on teens was because it is within the scope of my experience.

 

I will never understand how two people can casually bring a human into this world, no matter how old they are. While husbands and wives can and do walk away from each other, it is a lot harder to walk away from someone who you are legally bound to than someone who is just a boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

For me, this is just one of those "solving the world's problems" discussions. You cannot push ethics/morals/decency onto people.

 

Eta: I am NOT saying that people who have a child together but are not married are not decent people. My experience has been with people who obviously abuse the system and speak of their "baby daddy" and "baby momma" like this is how things are supposed to be.

[Abeille]

Other than in instances of rape, child abuse, and incest, women have almost total control in whether or not they get pregnant. They can choose to abstain or use birth control which is very effective if used properly and consistently. It's also readily obtainable and cheap.

 

 

Birth control isn't 100% effective though, even when used consistently and correctly. In my case, I was 27 and single when I got pregnant while in a relationship, even though I'd been on the pill for years. Accidents happen, and then mom is left with tough choices. In my case, I was blessed enough to be able to choose to keep my baby. I certainly didn't do so to get benefits or work the system. I had an okay job, and I went back to work after maternity leave ended.

 

I also didn't force my son's biological father out of the picture. He did that himself when he tried to break into my apartment drunk, having told friends he was "going to put a bag on her head and beat her stomach until it's empty," after we broke up (and I'd been very clear that I was happy to co-parent because he had rights too). I got a panicked 3am phone call and was able to get out of my home a few minutes before he arrived; unfortunately, I let our mutual friends convince me not to file a police report. After ds was born, the father thankfully showed zero interest in contact. I never pursued child support because I was getting by without him and because I didn't want that person in my child's life unless the courts compelled it.

 

I get sad when I read these kinds of stories because they never seem to mention all the single parents (male and female) who are making responsible choices for their children, and who aren't living high on social benefits.

[Lisbeth]

Among people where I live, single parent households, particularly the never-married, are rare. It is an affluent area.

[SKL]

Today I sat in on a Sunday School class for parents wanting to reach their children's hearts. They talked about things that impact (i.e., mess up) kids and single parenthood was one of the first examples.

 

Sigh.

 

I really think this is misguided and it isn't helping anyone. I mean, of course a man should not be creating lives and then abandoning them. A man should not be saddling a young woman with a lifelong responsibility that mature adults find difficult to handle. A woman should also have enough sense to prevent pregnancy when not ready for the lifelong challenge of parenting. I am all for preventing that from happening. But what is the benefit of guilting caring moms who are raising kids in single-parent homes? And is it really a foregone conclusion that a caring single mom is going to raise a directionless child? And also, what would they like us to do about it? Go find a man and get married?

[kalanamak]

But people change! Or don't show their true face. It is sooooooo common. Heck, look at the Green River Killer. Everyone thought he was the nicest quiet sweet husband.

 

 

Uh, people at work thought him a sex-weirdo, and his first wife could tell you a thing or two. He was suspected early on, too, because of his association with prostitutes.

 

The mutilator in Wichita, despite some job problems here and there, was much more assimilated. And even trickier was Ted Bundy.

 

But most of these serial killers have had various dust-ups .... the problem is no one connects the dots.

[happypamama]

 

 

There are young men in the area with multiple baby's with multiple women. I don't know how common it is but I can tell you that it is a reality in our town and not just something to be viewed on Jerry Springer. What I don't understand is why these young women find these guys attractive. Why would a deadbeat dad with two babies from two different women treat you any differently because you became pregnant with his baby? The baby drama around here is out-of-control.

 

 

 

I don't get that either. I understand getting together with and having a baby with a guy who has a child already -- if he's a good, involved dad already. But I guess women are convinced he'll change? Or maybe it's a status symbol in some areas? (My MW works in the inner city sometimes, and she sees it all the time; one time a guy showed up to see his girlfriend and his newborn -- with his *infant,* not even a toddler, from another woman in tow.) It's very sad.

 

I do know a lot of educated women in their mid-30s who have gotten divorced in the past few years. Many of them are ones I never would have expected, at all. DH and I wonder what makes the difference -- why them, for instance, and not us? Similar education levels, no family precedent for divorce, etc.

[Mona100]

Today I sat in on a Sunday School class for parents wanting to reach their children's hearts. They talked about things that impact (i.e., mess up) kids and single parenthood was one of the first examples.

 

Sigh.

 

I really think this is misguided and it isn't helping anyone. I mean, of course a man should not be creating lives and then abandoning them. A man should not be saddling a young woman with a lifelong responsibility that mature adults find difficult to handle. A woman should also have enough sense to prevent pregnancy when not ready for the lifelong challenge of parenting. I am all for preventing that from happening. But what is the benefit of guilting caring moms who are raising kids in single-parent homes? And is it really a foregone conclusion that a caring single mom is going to raise a directionless child? And also, what would they like us to do about it? Go find a man and get married?

 

 

The first bold is the main reason I don't attend church. The second bold is oh so true. It is not like I can go buy a man at Target.

[AdventureMoms]

I think welfare is a root cause of a lot of single parenting. Before welfare existed, parents married each other and did the best they could. Once welfare existed, mothers could get more money if there was no father involved. And they got a raise each time a new baby was added. Now that the dynamic has changed, and there's not much stigma to single parenting anymore, I don't how it could be changed back.

 

 

I don't agree. Before welfare men still walked out on women they got pregnant. Women were just expected to deal with it on their own (without any options for employment). Prostitution, abortion, or infanticide were often the only options for poor women without family or community support. And premarital / extramarital sex happens in every society and culture in history.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I've also seen a disgusting amount of women eager to be grandmothers.

 

*I solemnly swear to never ask kiddo, ever, ever, ever, when he is going to make me a grandmother.* :patriot:

 

I agree. Now that DD is a mom and her friend's mothers see the baby, I hear comments all of the time about how they cannot wait for their daughters to have babies. Usually, though the moms say "get married and have a baby" but still...these girls are 19-22 years old. Let them grow up first.

 

I can't tell you how many times I was accused of being insensitive, cruel, heartless and a variety of other attributes because I was (and still am) completely outraged, brokenhearted and upset by DD's pregnancy. I love my DGD and I am happy she is here but I mourn the life DD could have had if she had made different choices.

 

I have supported her through everything and will continue to do my best but no one, absolutely no one, will ever hear me say I wanted this for her.

[SKL]

I agree. Now that DD is a mom and her friend's mothers see the baby, I hear comments all of the time about how they cannot wait for their daughters to have babies. Usually, though the moms say "get married and have a baby" but still...these girls are 19-22 years old. Let them grow up first.

 

 

 

My mom used to say that to me, but I knew she didn't mean it. One day I asked her if she wanted me to quit school and get married young like she did. She said, no. So I said, then stop nagging me to make you a granny. She did.

 

I doubt that those moms you're hearing actually want their daughters to stop their lives in order to make them a granny. Possibly they feel they are being kind to you by making it sound like it's not all bad.

 

I don't know how I'd feel if my daughter became pregnant under those circumstances. Generally, I am the type of person who lets things go once there isn't anything I can do about them. Can't turn back the clock. Might as well make the best of things. But that doesn't mean I don't hope with all my heart that I'll never be in that position.

[8circles]

Sorry, posted by mistake.

[justamouse]

That society thinks they should have shame about it is the stigma, Martha.

 

I think that is society's way of trying to correct the problem, which we have a right to because we pay the fallout. We pay the fallout on welfare, childcare, and then the emotional and social problems of a fatherless child.

 

When sex becomes free it has no consequences...except for when it has consequences. Which happens a lot.

 

 

Did anyone see tis article? The Tricky Chemistry of Attraction.

 

Much of the attraction between the sexes is chemistry. New studies suggest that when women use hormonal contraceptives, such as birth-control pills, it disrupts some of these chemical signals, affecting their attractiveness to men and women's own preferences for romantic partners.Researchers say birth control pills are upending the natural influence of hormones on attraction. WSJ's Shirley Wang reports on a new study in lemurs that show how contraceptives may influence the way the primates pick and choose their mates.

 

The type of man a woman is drawn to is known to change during her monthly cycle—when a woman is fertile, for instance, she might look for a man with more masculine features. Taking the pill or another type of hormonal contraceptive upends this natural dynamic, making less-masculine men seem more attractive, according to a small but growing body of evidence. The findings have led researchers to wonder about the implications for partner choice, relationship quality and even the health of the children produced by these partnerships.

 

 

So maybe that's why the moms don't want to marry the dads?

[mommymilkies]

That's fascinating, Justamouse. I'm not surprised, though.

[gardenmom5]

I have to agree much of the disappearing is guys who were never pemanent in the first place. divorce has only exacerbated problem. Though I think *the problem* is an unhealthy loosening of attitudes.

 

I live in an affluent area. I've a friend who works L&D at the local hospital. fully *40%* (FORTY-PERCENT!) of the babies she attends have unmarried moms. that includes all racial groups (in some communities - it's 70% unmarried moms). while teens have the stereotype of being unmarried, it's more and more adults - some of whom can financially support a child, many of whom cannot.

 

there are still teens who think a baby will make them happy as then they can have someone who "loves them" - (I've worked with teens trying to help them see reality BEFORE they succeed in getting pregnant).

 

the studies have found a difference in outcome for children where the father is absent through death vs divorce vs "sperm donor".

 

while there are unmarrieds where the dad is around (though more limited than living with the child) - those are the exception.

[Scarlett]

I always hate when this topic comes up. I am one of those single, never married teen moms. I am seen in the eyes of society as a failure. I came from a rural background with a 2 parent household that had an older father who didn't think much of my abilities growing up and mother just went along with it. When I was a junior in high school and thinking about going to school, my dad told me that all I was good for is answering phones. So, at that time, I saw no future. There was nothing for me to do so I didn't pay attention to birth control issues. I honestly didn't think it could happen to me. There was also no discussion of sex by my parents. They really didn't know what I was doing

 

I had very low self esteem. When I got pregnant, I wasn't too worried about it because "hey, now I have something to do now as an adult." The boy and I weren't really dating so he wasn't ever involved in the picture. So, what was I suppose to do? The alternative in my mind was something I wouldn't do and adoption was never mentioned as an option. Basically, I was told to lay in the bed I had made. My parents did help out and I went on to get an associate's degree and a bachelor's degree in laboratory sciences. I stayed with my parent's until my daughter was 4 (now she's 17) and the only public assistance I had was prenatal care, birth, and WIC.

 

It is hard to be a single parent but once you are in the situation, what do you do? How do you go back? You can't.

 

Like I said, I think there is a huge huge issue of esteem by young people today. If you don't value yourself, how are you going to value others.

 

 

You can't go back.

 

But how do we keep girls and boys from making babies out of wedlock.

[Murphy101]

 

 

You can't go back.

 

But how do we keep people from making babies out of wedlock.

 

 

Because I don't have much understanding for grown people well past teen years doing it either. Of which there are plenty and growing numbers of. :/

 

ETA: I really don't think this has anything to do anymore with young people who don't know about sex. Those are an minority IMO. We are talking about people of various ages and backgrounds PURPOSELY having children they have no reasonable expectation of being able to provide a father for and, sadly, some won't be able to be much of a mother either. That is a completely different ball game from a couple generations ago where it was thought the problem was lack of education and birth control causing "accidents".

[Scarlett]

 

 

Birth control isn't 100% effective though, even when used consistently and correctly. In my case, I was 27 and single when I got pregnant while in a relationship, even though I'd been on the pill for years. Accidents happen, and then mom is left with tough choices. In my case, I was blessed enough to be able to choose to keep my baby. I certainly didn't do so to get benefits or work the system. I had an okay job, and I went back to work after maternity leave ended.

 

I also didn't force my son's biological father out of the picture. He did that himself when he tried to break into my apartment drunk, having told friends he was "going to put a bag on her head and beat her stomach until it's empty," after we broke up (and I'd been very clear that I was happy to co-parent because he had rights too). I got a panicked 3am phone call and was able to get out of my home a few minutes before he arrived; unfortunately, I let our mutual friends convince me not to file a police report. After ds was born, the father thankfully showed zero interest in contact. I never pursued child support because I was getting by without him and because I didn't want that person in my child's life unless the courts compelled it.

 

I get sad when I read these kinds of stories because they never seem to mention all the single parents (male and female) who are making responsible choices for their children, and who aren't living high on social benefits.

 

It is true that sometimes when a woman gets pregnant out of wedlock it is a wake up call to her. My mom was one of those. She said all she cared about was providing for me.

 

There is still fall out but if people try they can make decent lives for themselves.

[Jilly]

Meh. Almost all the single families I know are the result of the woman leaving or not wanting to commit, not the man. In most of them, the father very much wanted to be married and a fully involved and the woman doesn't want him in the picture and blocks or makes it miserable for him to do it.

 

Wow I think I live in a completly different area than you find yourself in. Most of the moms I know are single because the husband/father decided it would be better for him. This is what happened to my children and myself, and we have been paying for his decision for years.

 

This thread makes me very sad. That is all I will say.

[Murphy101]

 

 

It is true that sometimes when a woman gets pregnant out of wedlock it is a wake up call to her. My mom was one of those. She said all she cared about was providing for me.

 

There is still fall out but if people try they can make decent lives for themselves.

 

 

Absolutely!! I BFF was like that too. Really, the social problem being debated here seems rather far removed from some teen with an oops pregnancy. At least to me it seems to be.

[Embassy]

Sad. Fathers are important. I wish every child could have a great father. Some don't and many women do the best with the situation they are in. Some choose to become parents without men involved and in those cases having a good male role-model is important. I don't think our society values fathers like they should, but I think there is also an epidemic of not so great fathers out there.

[EthiopianFood]

Mona, you sound like a huge success story to me. You were young and stupid, got in a difficult situation, and refused to let it bring you down. You should consider yourself an inspiration, and I mean that sincerely.

 

I always hate when this topic comes up. I am one of those single, never married teen moms. I am seen in the eyes of society as a failure. I came from a rural background with a 2 parent household that had an older father who didn't think much of my abilities growing up and mother just went along with it. When I was a junior in high school and thinking about going to school, my dad told me that all I was good for is answering phones. So, at that time, I saw no future. There was nothing for me to do so I didn't pay attention to birth control issues. I honestly didn't think it could happen to me. There was also no discussion of sex by my parents. They really didn't know what I was doing

 

I had very low self esteem. When I got pregnant, I wasn't too worried about it because "hey, now I have something to do now as an adult." The boy and I weren't really dating so he wasn't ever involved in the picture. So, what was I suppose to do? The alternative in my mind was something I wouldn't do and adoption was never mentioned as an option. Basically, I was told to lay in the bed I had made. My parents did help out and I went on to get an associate's degree and a bachelor's degree in laboratory sciences. I stayed with my parent's until my daughter was 4 (now she's 17) and the only public assistance I had was prenatal care, birth, and WIC.

 

It is hard to be a single parent but once you are in the situation, what do you do? How do you go back? You can't.

 

Like I said, I think there is a huge huge issue of esteem by young people today. If you don't value yourself, how are you going to value others.

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

 

 

Yup! And that is all I can add to this thread without getting banned.

 

I am one of those women that those in this thread find to be below them and speak of so contemptuously. I may be a poor single mom that had kids without a husband/daddy in the picture, but I can tell you I have more class and I am a better parent than many out there. I am done. I will only be returning to the hive to tend to the quilt for a while.

 

Swellmama, I am so sorry if I upset you with anything I wrote. :grouphug:

 

Please don't leave. I think you have much to offer. I have enjoyed your posts and getting to know you through the forums.

[MBM]

Sad. Fathers are important. I wish every child could have a great father. Some don't and many women do the best with the situation they are in. Some choose to become parents without men involved and in those cases having a good male role-model is important. I don't think our society values fathers like they should, but I think there is also an epidemic of not so great fathers out there.

 

I agree. Too bad I can't clone my husband and distribute him to the masses. He's an awesome father.(Must go knock on wood now.) Many of the major decisions he's made -- jobs he's taken, where and how we live, making time for the kids -- center around what he feels is best for our children. The day will come when he and I will have more time for ourselves, but for now, we try to do what is best for the kids.

 

I do think single parents can do well, too, especially if they make good choices and have a network of supportive people around them.

[lailasmum]

Sad. Fathers are important. I wish every child could have a great father. Some don't and many women do the best with the situation they are in. Some choose to become parents without men involved and in those cases having a good male role-model is important. I don't think our society values fathers like they should, but I think there is also an epidemic of not so great fathers out there.

 

:iagree: The vast majority of my friends are single parents. Several of them of them are that way because their partner abandoned them for a different life and their kids either have extremely minimal contact with their father or none at all and no financial support whatsoever from them. There were always other issues going on that made them separate (abuse, affairs & fraud etc) but the men have gone on to forget they are fathers so easily. I can't see that making these women feel bad about their situation because the father is not around really helps at all. In my two closest friends cases they had both been in long relationships (8-10 years) with the men prior to pregnancy but the men just turned out to be totally dreadful fathers and really didn't care about their children at all. I have other friends where the father takes the responsibility seriously even though the relationship with the mother didn't work out, but they are totally different men than the losers who don't, mentally wired differently.

 

With teens getting pregnant I think that some of it comes down to helping girls realise they have choices and a life ahead of them and their only option for doing something worthwhile isn't having a baby. Also making them aware about their options for accessing birth control.Last week I watched a documentary called Growing up poor, the girls were around 16 and out in the world on their own mostly and living on benefits or very low paid jobs. What struck me about it was how lonely they seemed. Having a baby could appear to them to be an option to rebuild their family and get friends since their other prospects don't look great.

[Scarlett]

I think welfare is a root cause of a lot of single parenting. Before welfare existed, parents married each other and did the best they could. Once welfare existed, mothers could get more money if there was no father involved. And they got a raise each time a new baby was added. Now that the dynamic has changed, and there's not much stigma to single parenting anymore, I don't how it could be changed back.

 

 

I doubt this is true in most cases. I don't think most unwed mothers are intentionally getting pregnant to get more welfare. I do think that more women leave husbands now because they have the safety net of welfare...some of those women NEED to leave due to abuse or adultery, but some just don't want to put in the hard word that marriage sometimes takes.

 

There is not enough value put on family and marriage.

[Reya]

Thanks for sharing the article. My dh and I have been discussing this issue and how it seems no one is talking about it. We think it is because society doesn't want it to seem that women alone aren't enough (since many children are in single parent households where the mom is the parent). We also think getting married should be harder to do, such as having required counseling, waiting periods between license and ceremony, etc.. If it were a more challenging process, there might be fewer divorces.

 

Divorce rates are down. People aren't marrying AT ALL.

[gardenmom5]

ds and I were discussing this last night. I mentioned I had only marginal sympathy for any guy who is ordered to pay child support when he didn't want to be a dad. Men do have the option of keeping it in their pants. (and women have the option of keeping their pants zipped, so no sympathy on that front either.)

Ds hangs out online, and he said that is one attitude among guys that is changing - they're more willing to wait because that is the only way they have any control in paying child support (or not) and how it affects the rest of their lives.

[gardenmom5]

I doubt this is true in most cases. I don't think most unwed mothers are intentionally getting pregnant to get more welfare. I do think that more women leave husbands now because they have the safety net of welfare...some of those women NEED to leave due to abuse or adultery, but some just don't want to put in the hard word that marriage sometimes takes.

 

There is not enough value put on family and marriage.

there are segments where it IS true. I worked with teen girls who *deliberatly* wanted to get pregnant, and knew they could just get welfare so they didn't care about how much it would cost. (and part of the reason was it was easier than getting a job.)

 

welfare also makes it very difficult for parents to stay togther and get enough benefits so they can survive and improve their situation to the point they can get off welfare. that aides in breaking up families that would have otherwise stayed together. to make it worse, welfare makes it difficult for single moms to improve their situation.

[Scarlett]

 

there are segments where it IS true. I worked with teen girls who *deliberatly* wanted to get pregnant, and knew they could just get welfare so they didn't care about how much it would cost. (and part of the reason was it was easier than getting a job.)

 

welfare also makes it very difficult for parents to stay togther and get enough benefits so they can survive and improve their situation to the point they can get off welfare. that aides in breaking up families that would have otherwise stayed together. to make it worse, welfare makes it difficult for single moms to improve their situation.

 

I am not trying to be obtuse, but wanting a baby, out of wedlock or in, is not the same thing as getting pregnant just to get welfare. The feeling of wanting something to love and be loved by is understandable....and one we need to address with our pre-teen girls...and boys I guess.....to show them that there are better ways to go about reaching that goal.

[Crimson Wife]

Walking around my local Target and seeing how many girls there were who appeared to be in their teens with a baby/toddler or 20's with a preschooler or elementary-aged child, it made me very nervous for my daughters to see teen motherhood "normalized". Where I grew up, hardly any girls had babies as teens. Now there were rumors about girls in my high school having undergone abortions, but who knows how much truth there were in those. Anyways, in my social circle growing up, having a baby as a teen was just not something that was considered at all acceptable. A big reason I stayed a virgin was because I knew contraception wasn't foolproof and abortion was out of the question.

 

How do we get more of today's teen girls to have the same kind of attitude?

[beaners]

there are segments where it IS true. I worked with teen girls who *deliberatly* wanted to get pregnant, and knew they could just get welfare so they didn't care about how much it would cost. (and part of the reason was it was easier than getting a job.) welfare also makes it very difficult for parents to stay togther and get enough benefits so they can survive and improve their situation to the point they can get off welfare. that aides in breaking up families that would have otherwise stayed together. to make it worse, welfare makes it difficult for single moms to improve their situation.

 

I am not trying to be obtuse, but wanting a baby, out of wedlock or in, is not the same thing as getting pregnant just to get welfare. The feeling of wanting something to love and be loved by is understandable....and one we need to address with our pre-teen girls...and boys I guess.....to show them that there are better ways to go about reaching that goal.

 

The year after she graduated from high school, my sister's best friend was trying to convince her to have a baby too because the pregnant friend was suddenly eligible for WIC and TANF and housing subsidies. She was showing her all the "money" coming in, and telling her she should do the same thing so she wouldn't have to work all the time. Thank goodness my sister has a decent head on her shoulders, and had seen both from my children and children she babysat that A) that's not enough money to raise a child and have money to enjoy too, and B) kids are a lot of work. I hope it's not terribly common but it really does exist. I saw it firsthand until the friend moved away.

[Scarlett]

The year after she graduated from high school, my sister's best friend was trying to convince her to have a baby too because the pregnant friend was suddenly eligible for WIC and TANF and housing subsidies. She was showing her all the "money" coming in, and telling her she should do the same thing so she wouldn't have to work all the time. Thank goodness my sister has a decent head on her shoulders, and had seen both from my children and children she babysat that A) that's not enough money to raise a child and have money to enjoy too, and B) kids are a lot of work. I hope it's not terribly common but it really does exist. I saw it firsthand until the friend moved away.

 

 

Wow. I guess there are people like that out there. I don't even know how society would address that mindset.

[mommymilkies]

Walking around my local Target and seeing how many girls there were who appeared to be in their teens with a baby/toddler or 20's with a preschooler or elementary-aged child, it made me very nervous for my daughters to see teen motherhood "normalized". Where I grew up, hardly any girls had babies as teens. Now there were rumors about girls in my high school having undergone abortions, but who knows how much truth there were in those. Anyways, in my social circle growing up, having a baby as a teen was just not something that was considered at all acceptable. A big reason I stayed a virgin was because I knew contraception wasn't foolproof and abortion was out of the question.

How do we get more of today's teen girls to have the same kind of attitude?

 

Looks can be deceiving.my mom still looked 18 into her 40's and I have had the absolute rudest comments to me about being "too young to have kids"...at 29 years old. I mean, nasty comments. I won't stigmatize teen moms to my kids. They know I was one and I want them to be able to come to me to talk and to know they will be helped if it ever happens. Luckily, we're still in the "boys/girls" are gross stage. ;)

[cathmom]

I love my DGD and I am happy she is here but I mourn the life DD could have had if she had made different choices.

I have supported her through everything and will continue to do my best but no one, absolutely no one, will ever hear me say I wanted this for her.

 

 

Wow..I hope my mom never felt this way. Having my oldest at age 18 was probably the best thing that could have happened to me. It saved me years of being lost.

[swellmomma]

Looks can be deceiving.my mom still looked 18 into her 40's and I have had the absolute rudest comments to me about being "too young to have kids"...at 29 years old. I mean, nasty comments. I won't stigmatize teen moms to my kids. They know I was one and I want them to be able to come to me to talk and to know they will be helped if it ever happens. Luckily, we're still in the "boys/girls" are gross stage. ;)

 

 

Had that happen lots too. Had my 1st 2 with my husband in my early 20s looked 12, got all sorts of nasty comments even with me wearing my ring etc. youngest one I was pregnant on my 30th birthday, had 3 in tow, oldest turned 9 right before she was born. I looked like I was maybe mid 20s if that, with my 4th on the way and oldest clearly school age and again with the nasty comments.

 

I laugh at the comment about obviously school aged kids or preschoolers with a parent in their 20s. How many on here had kids in their 20s? My first was born when I was 21 2nd when I was 22, third at 26 and 4th at 30. So yeah I had babies, toddlers, preschoolers and school agers through my 20s and was insulted and called names by those that assumed I was even younger and a teen mom. I am really now starting to look my age in my mid 30s. BUt I was still getting carded when I bought a scratch lotto ticket 2 years ago(they card you if you look younger than 25) and I had tweens/teens at teh time.

 

I also got nasty comments as a teen when I was taking care of my little brother or babysitting kids. Nothing like taking the kids you watch out for a popsicle and getting comments about being a teen mom etc.

 

You can't assume just because there is a young looking woman with a child even if the child calls her mom that she was a teen mom, she may be young looking, she may be the babysitter. Little kids often call all grown women mama for a while until they learn differently.

[elizabeth]

In our law practice we see primarily young people having children and when the reality, the crushing weight of responsbility comes upon them, their parents bail their sorry behinds out and raise their grandchildren. It is a sad state of affairs. That having been said when you have educated, responsible people becoming parents it is a great joy to behold and many of those families are in different circumstances than one might contemplate. In essence, kids ought not have kids. Period. However if they do it is one matter to have guilt over poor choices and a lack of responsible sexual behaviour it is entirely another to feel shame which is in my humble estimation not productive. Guilt is the sense that one has done something wrong and one should try to make right the worng. Shame is I am the sin or wrong, that is the totality of my identity. With shame there is little productive change. If you see yourself as only a wrong, a sin, an abomination then what is the point of trying to redeem one's identity at that point?

[swellmomma]

Wow..I hope my mom never felt this way. Having my oldest at age 18 was probably the best thing that could have happened to me. It saved me years of being lost.

 

 

I feel the same way about my kids. My mom felt like that poster does. Our relationship was permenantly damaged as a result. She loves my kids very much but to this day she wishes I didn't have them the way I did. That was hurtful enough but then to watch her fawn all over my sister for doing things the "right" way. nope I have never forgiven her for it. Our relationship wasn't stellar to begin with but that became a big nail in the coffin so to speak.

 

I won't be telling my kids I can't wait to be a gramma, they know I want them to wait. But I also believe every pregnancy is a gift to be celebtrated, not only when it is done "right" Because honestly 1 persons right is another persons wrong, and why should that child be any less celebrated?

[Reeciecup]

I doubt this is true in most cases. I don't think most unwed mothers are intentionally getting pregnant to get more welfare. I do think that more women leave husbands now because they have the safety net of welfare...some of those women NEED to leave due to abuse or adultery, but some just don't want to put in the hard word that marriage sometimes takes.

 

There is not enough value put on family and marriage.

 

I'm not saying that women get pregnant for the purpose of receiving welfare. That does happen, but it wasn't my point. My point is that there is a real incentive for poor parents not to stay together or get married, and that incentive is welfare. There's also no incentive to avoid having more children, because when you have more you get a raise.

[Crimson Wife]

There are indeed some women with baby faces (I'm one and was still getting asked for a 2nd ID into my early 30's) but they can't be the majority. In 2008, California had nearly double the teen pregnancy rate as my home state of Massachusetts and it's not just a factor of demographics because for every racial/ethnic group, CA's teen pregnancy rate is significantly higher than MA's. So I think there really is a bigger problem out here with teen motherhood being normalized.

[Anne in CA]

There are so many facets to this problem. My oldest, my step dd, is one of five children on her mother's side. Her mother did have all her children to get welfare money even though she does not meet a normal demographic for that. Although her parents are divorced, they are both white, upper middle class people who value education and work ethic highly. My husband married dsd's mom for the worst year of his life and their marriage ended when she found an opportunity to hook up with her high school sweetheart. That man's marriage ended too and he had three kids. So, all those kids without married parents, because one very irresponsible woman wanted welfare money and other women's husbands.

 

None of dsd's siblings on her mother's side are doing really well, her older 1/2 brother that my dh helped raise is in college at 26, but he wasted most of the years out of high school partying and sleeping around, working only enough to buy alcohol and clothes. The other 1/2 brother's that she shares with her mother have too many piercings and tattoos to get any kind of job. They are 19 and 17 and trying to figure out how to get disability.

 

The examples of welfare mothers I met through my dh's ex are all women who had as many children as they could to keep getting more welfare. They openly discussed this. None of them had loving home lives as children and none of them were creating loving home lives for their children.

 

But welfare mothers are only one part of the fatherless generation. This is a broken world, and broken people are a part of it. So many amazing women on this board discovered that they had made children with the wrong man, intentionally or not, and made the best of it. My mother stayed married to my father for 25 years but he was not much of a father, he was too busy with his business, which lost so much money toward the end it wasn't even providing for the family while he was pouring his life into it. Basically my mom was a single mother. But I won't lie. I enjoyed the status of having married parents in the 70's- 80's when so many of my friends had horrible problems stemming from their parent's divorce.

[Mona100]

Mona, you sound like a huge success story to me. You were young and stupid, got in a difficult situation, and refused to let it bring you down. You should consider yourself an inspiration, and I mean that sincerely.

 

 

Thank you so much but you would still be surprised at this late stage of the game (my daughter's 17) how the "stigma" will still slap you in the face at times.

 

And for the mom in Illinois, sorry I can't remember your name on here but my mom felt the same way and it is hard to get past that from the daughter's point of view. I have followed your story of your daughter and oh the memories of that time just come back up. I am glad I had my daughter that young because I honestly would have been adrift.

[Kaleidoscope]

Today I sat in on a Sunday School class for parents wanting to reach their children's hearts. They talked about things that impact (i.e., mess up) kids and single parenthood was one of the first examples.

 

Sigh.

 

I really think this is misguided and it isn't helping anyone. I mean, of course a man should not be creating lives and then abandoning them. A man should not be saddling a young woman with a lifelong responsibility that mature adults find difficult to handle. A woman should also have enough sense to prevent pregnancy when not ready for the lifelong challenge of parenting. I am all for preventing that from happening. But what is the benefit of guilting caring moms who are raising kids in single-parent homes? And is it really a foregone conclusion that a caring single mom is going to raise a directionless child? And also, what would they like us to do about it? Go find a man and get married?

 

Sounds like typical church talk. Fits right in with what i was recently advised, "Better to stay in an abusive marriage than risk teaching your children to be quitters." Because surely as a single mom I'd be doing a great injustice to my kids, 2 parents are just that much better. I'm quickly becoming cynical about the church!