WDYT about personal "happiness?"

[I.Dup.]

I've always thought personal happiness was a pretty selfish thing to search for and that by serving others, we would be "happy." I'm not sure I even thought there should be ANY importance placed on the elusive "happy" at all.

 

I have been observing other moms and notice that very few seem happy. They give, give, give to their kids (so they already are focusing on others) but this leaves them drained, worn out, frazzled, depressed. I don't want to get older and be this way. I already am to some extent but I don't want to become moreso. We had dinner with another family recently and this mom sacrifices everything for her kids. She plays with them constantly, watches over them, schools them diligently, she is SUPER organized and on top of everything, but she honestly looked so drained and sad. I don't think she smiled once. That got me thinking.

 

I started reading The Happiness Project and the author is unapologetic about her search for personal happiness and fulfillment. As much as I want to give all of me to my kids, I notice the more I do this the more invested I am in getting my fulfillment and purpose FROM them and I don't want to be that way. They are going to grow up and leave us someday, then where will I be?

 

Just wondering what you think about the quest for PERSONAL happiness/fulfillment?

[regentrude]

I know that I am a much better mother and wife if I am happy. I have learned it the hard way, going through some serious depression while being a SAHM. It took me going back to work to realize that I was unhappy because I was desperately lonely and that I need some accomplishment outside of parenting in order to feel fulfilled.

Self-care is not selfish; it is necessary in order to be able to care for others and not burn out. I notice that the people who are the most fun to be with, the most inspiring, are all people who are passionate about something in the world. Martyrs are not really fun to be around;-)

 

And,OP, I agree about your remark about finding happiness in one's children:

while my children make me very happy, it would place an unfair burden on them if they were solely responsible for my happiness.

[DianeW88]

I don't know if I "do" anything. I'm a naturally happy, optimistic, cheerful person...and it just seems to be the way I am without me having to purposefully search out things (people, situations) to "make" me happy. I'm just happy. Or as Abraham Lincoln (I think it was him, LOL) once said, "Folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." I sincerely believe that.

 

Oh, and yes, I think we ARE meant to be happy and to be unapologetic for it. I'm LDS, and as one of our scriptures says, "Man is, that he might have joy." I believe that our happiness is part of God's plan for us.

[Incognito]

As with all things in life, I think there is a balance.

 

I was brought up with the idea of pursuing integrity and serving, and happiness is a by-product (a nice one) :).

 

I think that this is still the best general way, but I do think that moms in general need to have some way to look out for themselves (because no one else is looking out for them). I think if you have a husband that looks out for you, or family that does and supports you, then you might not need to do it for yourself, it would be naturally there anyway.

 

ETA: I realize my paragraph there may be a bit unclear. I don't think anyone else can make you happy - but they can help you feel supported so you can choose things or make time for things that give you pleasure (and thus might make you happier).

[bolt.]

I'm of the opinion that God is a Father who loves us very much, and is pleased when He blesses us. The words for "blessed" and "happy" are the same word in the Bible -- and I think happiness, or at least contentment, satisfaction or peace in life are a huge part of the Christian life of being God's children.

 

That doesn't mean there aren't hard things for us to do, and real effort in our ministry to other people is an expression of the love of God too. Im not meaning that we should indulge in the easy life full of selfishness and leisure.

 

When we are doing something that is a calling, we can expect it to be challenging, even exhausting in some seasons -- but when we imagine that "ministry" means personal misery we are imagining God wrongly. We are imagining a God who threats those who love and serve him like disposable slaves in whatever 'he' is doing... Serving some people by ruining others?

 

Self-care matters. Self-love has a role to play. Being blessed involves making space for happiness when and where it is a good thing. We do not witness for a God who "loves me" by putting on a display of misery (nor by hiding real misery behind a cheerful countenance). A witness to God's truth is true: that He really is a God who cares for us, comforts us, blesses us and gives us joy.

 

It is not healthy to lay the burden of "purpose and fulfillment" as parents in the shoulders of little children. Something needs to change.

[Cassy]

I don't believe that 'happiness' is a valid objective to pursue. I do all I can to make life good for my family, I get pleasure and satisfaction from that. But I also have needs, quite insistent, burning needs, for moments of solitude, for learning, for achievement, that exclude my family. Balancing those needs with my feelings of love and commitment to my family is the objective I pursue. Occasionally this leads to feelings of total, immense happiness.

[I.Dup.]

I'm of the opinion that God is a Father who loves us very much, and is pleased when He blesses us. The words for "blessed" and "happy" are the same word in the Bible -- and I think happiness, or at least contentment, satisfaction or peace in life are a huge part of the Christian life of being God's children. That doesn't mean there aren't hard things for us to do, and real effort in our ministry to other people is an expression of the love of God too. Im not meaning that we should indulge in the easy life full of selfishness and leisure. When we are doing something that is a calling, we can expect it to be challenging, even exhausting in some seasons -- but when we imagine that "ministry" means personal misery we are imagining God wrongly. We are imagining a God who threats those who love and serve him like disposable slaves in whatever 'he' is doing... Serving some people by ruining others? Self-care matters. Self-love has a role to play. Being blessed involves making space for happiness when and where it is a good thing. We do not witness for a God who "loves me" by putting on a display of misery (nor by hiding real misery behind a cheerful countenance). A witness to God's truth is true: that He really is a God who cares for us, comforts us, blesses us and gives us joy. It is not healthy to lay the burden of "purpose and fulfillment" as parents in the shoulders of little children. Something needs to change.

 

This is great! And re: the bolded, of course! That is what I DON'T want to do. I don't think I have done that but what I am noticing that as my children get older I am taking on too much burden for THEIR happiness as a way to measure my OWN worth. If that makes sense? That is what is seeming unhealthy to me. I have one child in particular that is difficult to please and tends toward being grumpy and unfulfilled. This is how I've always been as well. I can easily run myself ragged just trying to make her happy but does that do her or me any good? We are who we are and we need to take responsibility for our own fulfillment.

 

Balancing those needs with my feelings of love and commitment to my family is the objective I pursue. Occasionally this leads to feelings of total, immense happiness.

 

Yes, this is what I'm trying to figure out. The balance is hard, especially with our cultural expectations on mothers.

[garddwr]

I know that I am a much better mother and wife if I am happy. I have learned it the hard way, going through some serious depression while being a SAHM. It took me going back to work to realize that I was unhappy because I was desperately lonely and that I need some accomplishment outside of parenting in order to feel fulfilled. Self-care is not selfish; it is necessary in order to be able to care for others and not burn out. I notice that the people who are the most fun to be with, the most inspiring, are all people who are passionate about something in the world. Martyrs are not really fun to be around;-) And,OP, I agree about your remark about finding happiness in one's children: while my children make me very happy, it would place an unfair burden on them if they were solely responsible for my happiness.

 

I agree that being passionate about something makes a person more alive. Staying home works for me because it just happens that the thing I am passionate about is teaching my children. The thought of sending them off to school sounds like misery to me--what, take away the part of mothering that I love and leave me with only the parts I don't find so inspiring (um, cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, playing taxi driver....)

 

I don't know if I "do" anything. I'm a naturally happy, optimistic, cheerful person...and it just seems to be the way I am without me having to purposefully search out things (people, situations) to "make" me happy. I'm just happy. Or as Abraham Lincoln (I think it was him, LOL) once said, "Folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." I sincerely believe that. Oh, and yes, I think we ARE meant to be happy and to be unapologetic for it. I'm LDS, and as one of our scriptures says, "Man is, that he might have joy." I believe that our happiness is part of God's plan for us.

 

I'm like you Diane, naturally happy and optimistic. I'm not sure I agree with your quote though, the "Folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be"--I've seen too many people struggling with depression who really were not capable of just deciding to be happy. I've also seen dramatic improvement in mood brought about through appropriate use of antidepressants, which leads me to the conclusion that in at least some cases there is in fact a physiologic element to positive and negative mood that may be entirely outside of the individual's ability to "choose." As someone who is happy by nature, it feels to me that I am just choosing to be happy and others could/should do the same, but my actual observations of others and their accounts of the way they experience life leads me to believe that that is only partially/sometimes true.

 

To be honest, I don't think I could make myself feel depressed and miserable for a day if I tried...why should I think others could just make themselves feel happy and relaxed by choosing to do so?

 

I believe we are meant to have joy, but in this life at least we are also subject to sadness and depression--some more than others. The path to hope and joy and love lies through faith and service, but sometimes it also lies through long valleys of depression that stem not from a failure to choose happiness but from physical and mental stress and illness.

[Cassy]

Yes, this is what I'm trying to figure out. The balance is hard, especially with our cultural expectations on mothers.

 

 

Figure out what it is that you want for yourself, then find ways of making time to achieve it. Forget cultural expectations, it's your life, live it in a way that feels authentic to you.

[I.Dup.]

As someone who is happy by nature, it feels to me that I am just choosing to be happy and others could/should do the same, but my actual observations of others and their accounts of the way they experience life leads me to believe that that is only partially/sometimes true.

 

To be honest, I don't think I could make myself feel depressed and miserable for a day if I tried...why should I think others could just make themselves feel happy and relaxed by choosing to do so?

 

I believe we are meant to have joy, but in this life at least we are also subject to sadness and depression--some more than others. The path to hope and joy and love lies through faith and service, but sometimes it also lies through long valleys of depression that stem not from a failure to choose happiness but from physical and mental stress and illness.

 

 

 

YES. I agree. I am not one that is naturally happy so happiness is harder for me to achieve than for others. But I'm trying! :)

[I.Dup.]

Figure out what it is that you want for yourself, then find ways of making time to achieve it. Forget cultural expectations, it's your life, live it in a way that feels authentic to you.

 

 

Okay but what if this means, for example, since we CHOSE to have a big family and we are CHOOSING to homeschool that part of my happiness comes from not running my kids around to activities because I am a homebody and would be truly miserable running and being stuck to time schedules all the time? Especially with being more drained because we do have more kids and they are with me all day...Is that forcing my children to suffer so I can be happy? It's things like that I wonder about. I don't want other people to suffer so I can be happy but I also don't want to run myself ragged trying to make everyone else happy.

 

My sister is one that had all of her kids in activities, pressed them and tutored them at home to get good grades, got all of her children in the best classes, was president of the school board in our town, she was literally running around ALL THE TIME. After 20 years her husband cheated on her and she couldn't deal with this lifestyle anymore and has now moved to Hawaii where she is truly happy, leaving her kids and her husband behind. Of course that is extreme, but that has me thinking. I know she was WAY beyond burnt out and just couldn't deal when crisis hit. And now of course she's being labeled as selfish and self-serving.

[Scarlett]

I've always thought personal happiness was a pretty selfish thing to search for and that by serving others, we would be "happy." I'm not sure I even thought there should be ANY importance placed on the elusive "happy" at all.

 

I have been observing other moms and notice that very few seem happy. They give, give, give to their kids (so they already are focusing on others) but this leaves them drained, worn out, frazzled, depressed. I don't want to get older and be this way. I already am to some extent but I don't want to become moreso. We had dinner with another family recently and this mom sacrifices everything for her kids. She plays with them constantly, watches over them, schools them diligently, she is SUPER organized and on top of everything, but she honestly looked so drained and sad. I don't think she smiled once. That got me thinking.

 

I started reading The Happiness Project and the author is unapologetic about her search for personal happiness and fulfillment. As much as I want to give all of me to my kids, I notice the more I do this the more invested I am in getting my fulfillment and purpose FROM them and I don't want to be that way. They are going to grow up and leave us someday, then where will I be?

 

Just wondering what you think about the quest for PERSONAL happiness/fulfillment?

 

 

One word. Balance.

[OrganicAnn]

I'm happy by nature. Not crazy happy, but just content not complaining about anything happy. I don't know if there is anything that would make me more of less happy on a day to day basis (barring major life changes).

 

I don't think parents should give and give and give to their kids. It won't make kids happy or better people or do anything for a kids benefit. I believe you should give kids what they need and sometimes that means saying 'no' and not doing what a kids wants.

[DianeW88]

I'm like you Diane, naturally happy and optimistic. I'm not sure I agree with your quote though, the "Folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be"--I've seen too many people struggling with depression who really were not capable of just deciding to be happy. I've also seen dramatic improvement in mood brought about through appropriate use of antidepressants, which leads me to the conclusion that in at least some cases there is in fact a physiologic element to positive and negative mood that may be entirely outside of the individual's ability to "choose." As someone who is happy by nature, it feels to me that I am just choosing to be happy and others could/should do the same, but my actual observations of others and their accounts of the way they experience life leads me to believe that that is only partially/sometimes true.

 

To be honest, I don't think I could make myself feel depressed and miserable for a day if I tried...why should I think others could just make themselves feel happy and relaxed by choosing to do so?

 

I believe we are meant to have joy, but in this life at least we are also subject to sadness and depression--some more than others. The path to hope and joy and love lies through faith and service, but sometimes it also lies through long valleys of depression that stem not from a failure to choose happiness but from physical and mental stress and illness.

 

And I probably should have been more clear in my post, because it was never my intention to suggest that people who are depressed should just "try harder" to be happy. I think depression is an illness and should be treated as such. A chemical imbalance requires medication as much as diabetes requires insulin. I was referring more to the type of person who seems to enjoy being unhappy. The ones who complain about every. little. thing. The ones for whom nothing is ever good enough. Nobody can ever live up to their expectations, and therefore it's everyone else's fault that they're miserable. The people who are their own personal little black rain cloud. Those are the folks who need a reality check. It's your job to find happiness in your life...and I think the people who spend their lives waiting for others to "make" them happy, or who are NEVER satisfied with their circumstances in life....will never find it. And it's all their own fault.

[Cassy]

 

Okay but what if this means, for example, since we CHOSE to have a big family and we are CHOOSING to homeschool that part of my happiness comes from not running my kids around to activities because I am a homebody and would be truly miserable running and being stuck to time schedules all the time? Especially with being more drained because we do have more kids and they are with me all day...Is that forcing my children to suffer so I can be happy? It's things like that I wonder about. I don't want other people to suffer so I can be happy but I also don't want to run myself ragged trying to make everyone else happy.

 

My sister is one that had all of her kids in activities, pressed them and tutored them at home to get good grades, got all of her children in the best classes, was president of the school board in our town, she was literally running around ALL THE TIME. After 20 years her husband cheated on her and she couldn't deal with this lifestyle anymore and has now moved to Hawaii where she is truly happy, leaving her kids and her husband behind. Of course that is extreme, but that has me thinking. I know she was WAY beyond burnt out and just couldn't deal when crisis hit. And now of course she's being labeled as selfish and self-serving.

 

 

Those examples sound like extremes, not balance.

 

I do a lot of things that add absolutely nothing to my quality of life, that really bug me, in fact, but are necessary for the smooth running of our lives and to fulfil my obligations to my family. In return I get a couple of hours here, an afternoon there, to do things that are important to me. It's not either them or me, but a compromise; it's not perfect, but it works, and we're all mostly reasonably content with our lot.

 

I can't quite remember the ages of your children, I do remember that you have quite a few more than I have, and I imagine that some of them are quite small - small and demanding! I think finding time to think about what you need gets easier as they get older - my youngest will be 6 yo in May. I'm also very lucky that I have a dh who understands that I'm not just a drudge, but a person with dreams and passions :tongue_smilie:.

[DianeW88]

And because Windows 8 won't let me paragraph in my replies on the PC, I also wanted to add that mothers who say things like, "I'll be happy when my kids are older. I'll be happy when my husband gets a different job. I'll be happy when I finally get a bigger car, bigger house, bigger paycheck. I'll be happy when we can go on vacation. I'll be happy when we move. I'll be happy when my kids can pick up after themselves. I'll be happy when I lose weight. I'll be happy when my dh loses weight. Etc., etc., etc." Guess what? They're never going to get to happiness, because they cannot find it within themselves or in their present circumstances. Happiness isn't a destination, it's a journey. People need to learn to find joy in the journey. That's where happiness lies. It's a beautiful sunny day. It's yummy pancakes for breakfast. It's a child who gives you a hug. A dh who brings you a flower. A great parking space at the grocery store. A child who finally "gets" long division. Your favorite song. Reading a great book. A hundred thousand little things that add up to one great big HAPPY!!! :D

[shukriyya]

I would question the use of the word 'personal' when talking about happiness. As one pp suggested being around folks who are happy is 'catching' such that your happiness is also mine and conversely your suffering is also mine. Another name for this is interdependence. We all know what it's like to read on these boards of another boardie who is really struggling, our hearts go out to them, we carry them with us even in the subtlest of ways simply by being aware of their story. Similarly when the situation comes to a happy conclusion we share in their joy, again even in as subtle a way as simply being aware of the happy outcome.

 

There is a context for happiness of which we are all part, just as there is a context for suffering of which all share. Some of us are more attuned to one end of the spectrum than the other and most of us find ourselves somewhere in the middle. Either way we're in it together whether we like it or not. It's called the human condition :)

 

OP, I would encourage you to sit with this question because it's telling you something about the nature of your own soul's needs. And while it's great to have people share their perspectives it really doesn't matter whether we believe in it or not. What matters is that this question is calling to you, asking for the light of your own soul's focus.

[Dandelion]

I don't think it's an either/or proposition. I know there are some moms who believe that you either give all you have to your kids - or, you must be selfish and only thinking of your own happiness.

 

Personally, I believe that in order to be at your very best for your kids, you have to take care of yourself too. The "taking care of yourself" part will look different for different people - but I do think that should include time to pursue things that are just for you and that add meaning to your life.

 

For myself, I focus less on "happiness" and more on meaning and fulfillment. I've figured out what I need to have in my life in order to feel fulfilled, and for me at least, it goes well beyond my role as a wife and mom. One need I have is to contribute outside of our family in some capacity. Before homeschooling, I did that through my career. Since starting to homeschool, I ran my own business for awhile and now serve on the board of a local non-profit. I could dismiss that need (which I did for awhile, and neither my family nor I were better off for it). Now, I just accept it and find ways to meet that need that work for my family. Another need I have is for quality time with friends - so I work that into our schedule. When I take care of my needs, I do a much better job taking care of my family.

[Ottakee]

 

One word. Balance.

 

I think this is the key. I love being a mom to my 3 kids and now foster mom to another. Much of my time is spent running the household and keeping up with the various special needs of all 4 of them.

 

I do though think that I am better off (and so are they) when I get a chance to go walk with a friend, go out for lunch with another one once a month, go horseback riding, etc.

 

If mom is so burnt out she won't be able to do the best for her family. I also think that it is good for the kids to see mom taking care of herself---balance here, not neglecting them, but letting them know that mom has needs too and they are not the center of the universe.

[J-rap]

To me, happiness is a state of mind, and doesn't really depend so much on our actions or the actions of others. I know plenty of women who work hard serving their families and are very joyful! I know others who aren't. I know women who have time to pamper themselves a lot who are sad and confused, and I know others who are very happy. They are separate issues. It begins deep within a person, and often becomes so much a part of them that they don't even think about it. But other times, it is a conscious choice. By choosing to look at a glass half full instead of half empty, you are actually building brain paths that will continue in that direction.

 

I am a happy, optimistic person, and always have been. Maybe it has to do with growing up with parents who were also that way, and who always looked at the bright side and found joy in simple things. In the past two years, my life has been very difficult. Sometimes, I've had to make a conscious decision to be positive and to look at the blessings in my life. Now and then it actually feels good to just be sad and to scream at the tragedy that has happened! But then in the midst of it, I start to see the many blessing in my life and happiness creeps back in, whether I want it to or not.

 

The joy of the Lord is my strength... I believe this is something God desires of us, no matter what our circumstances.

[Danestress]

I have a hard time figuring out what makes me happy. Some days, I swear if you asked me what makes me happy, I would say, 'I don't know. If the whole house were clean all at once, that would be awesome."

 

How sad is that? When God said (Proverbs 4:23) to guard the heart because from it flows life, I don't think he was talking about how happy a clean house would make me. But really, a clean house makes me really happy:) Travel makes me happy. Being outside makes me happy. Walking my dog makes me happy when my feet don't hurt. Nothing is really happy when my feet DO hurt.

 

Anyway, my point is, sometimes I am not sure what really makes me happy in long term sense.

 

And yet I would say I am a basically happy person, happy by tempement, easily pleased, fairly relaxed. I really enjoy my kids, and I try to reflect that to them in all that I do. I want my kids to grow up and say that they had a mother who loved being their mother and loved her life. I don't think it matters that much what that live actually looks like. My MIL managed that as a working Mom. She has always been spirited, joyful, and fun loving, and her son loves being with her. He takes her to lunch all the time, and always comes home happy. My Mom was a reasonably happy SAHM. I certainly know homeschooling Moms who have beautiful houses, husbands with great jobs, household help, etc, and who seem to be never satisfied and constantly "put out" by the work they do. I wonder what that is like for their children - being home all day with a Mom who is hard to please and who is always exhausted and stressed. It can't be a good way to grow up.

 

So yeah, I think it would be better for that Mom to figure out what would make her take more joy in her circumstances. But she might not actually know what would make her happier. I wonder if a genie appeared to a woman like that and gave her three wishes what she would wish for.

[Anne in CA]

I have two time consuming hobbies that I occasionally put before my family, and I work part time. I am generally a happy person. I have a 12 yo dd who is pretty selfish at times right now and likes to see me unhappy. My oldest dd who is 24 and visits also likes to drain my happiness if given the opportunity. She has been much better when she visits, but now she wants to move back home and I will need serious boundaries for that to happen. My kids do not do everything they would like because I spend money on travel and hobbies. Not as much money I as I would like, but enough that it alters the standard of living we would have if I never went anywhere or did anything like the mom the OP wrote about. I do believe that happiness cannot be procrastinated as someone else pointed out, so I make sure to carve out small amounts of time for myself to be happy.

[Pod's mum]

The people who are their own personal little black rain cloud. Those are the folks who need a reality check. It's your job to find happiness in your life...and I think the people who spend their lives waiting for others to "make" them happy, or who are NEVER satisfied with their circumstances in life....will never find it. And it's all their own fault.

 

We've had a tough few years but things are starting to sort out now. During that I had to make sure I would remember to laugh and make time to have fun with my kids and now my dd.

I'll deliberately if not actually, be excited with her over carp she rushes in to show me and laugh with her over lame kids jokes.

Sometimes it is 'fake it til you make it', but I can't imagine how things would have been without this (and her).

Often I'll get "It's not funny mum" over things I laugh at. But you know, sometimes it just is funny.

I mostly keep my crying for when I'm alone. Certain songs particularly send me right off, and sometimes I'll play them and have a good cry. But I'm OK with that, as several posters said it's a balance thing. It makes the happiness richer.

 

Personally, I don't get the "what about YOU" attitude. That I need to seek fulfilment outside my time with my kids, that I need to escape them/her to enjoy life. We both maintain a fair bit of independant head-space in the same physical space I guess, but love sharing good stuff and as others have said, teaching and parent my kid/s (mostly) IS the good stuff.

 

I'm actually reading up on theories of happiness for my studies and one long passage spoke of this very issue.

It spoke of a lost generation, unable to find happiness as their parents "Just wanted them to be happy", rather than great, so happiness was sought independant of the things that normally lead to happiness...Love of arts (music, fine arts, plays etc), pride at excelling in sport, accedemics etc, social engagement, charitable works etc etc.

That to strive for nothing other than personal happiness is a great way to completely evade it, as it is more of a by product than a separate achievable 'good'.

 

Anyway, hope this makes sense, interesting thread, thank you.

[Pod's mum]

In the past two years, my life has been very difficult. Sometimes, I've had to make a conscious decision to be positive and to look at the blessings in my life. Now and then it actually feels good to just be sad and to scream at the tragedy that has happened! But then in the midst of it, I start to see the many blessing in my life and happiness creeps back in, whether I want it to or not.

 

The joy of the Lord is my strength... I believe this is something God desires of us, no matter what our circumstances.

 

 

Yep. This!

Maybe happiness in more definable when it has something like this to contrast with.

 

And knowing at all times that I am loved by God and not alone. How can that not make you tear up with gratitude, love and deep happiness when things hit the fan.

[Anne in CA]

I was remembering a Bible study session where an older woman who really struggled financially as a single mother was saying how hard she tried to set a good example of being happy on nothing. She was saying how hard it was to go camping by her kids and set up the tent and cook over the camp stove without a husband, but her kids remember those times really fondly and never condemn her for when she didn't hit the mark. I do think she "faked it 'till she maked it", lol, but it worked for her and she is very happy on very little even now. She is an inspiration to me, because she really does know how to be happy on nothing, and she is not a sanguine personality who just cruises through life, she knows how to dig and and enjoy the moment.

[Catwoman]

My sister is one that had all of her kids in activities, pressed them and tutored them at home to get good grades, got all of her children in the best classes, was president of the school board in our town, she was literally running around ALL THE TIME. After 20 years her husband cheated on her and she couldn't deal with this lifestyle anymore and has now moved to Hawaii where she is truly happy, leaving her kids and her husband behind. Of course that is extreme, but that has me thinking. I know she was WAY beyond burnt out and just couldn't deal when crisis hit. And now of course she's being labeled as selfish and self-serving.

 

Well, if she left her children behind, I would be among the people who would label her as selfish and self-serving... unless we're talking about adult children who are already living on their own, and who have their own lives in which she wasn't actively involved. But otherwise, I would think it would be pretty rotten for a mom to move to Hawaii (or anywhere else, for that matter) without her kids.

 

You don't just abandon your kids because you're in the mood for a major life change. :glare:

[Garga]

In the quest for "personal happiness" it's all about balance. Sometimes you give and sometimes you take. But you don't give everything and you don't take everything. Just a little bit at a time. Don't let yourself be drained and don't drain everyone around you.

 

Being selfish is immature and annoys me, but martyrs annoy me too.

 

It's really ok to do things just to be happy. I don't think God put us here to be miserable. I also don't think he put us here solely to satisfy our own sense of happiness. It's a balance. Sometimes you're the one getting to pursue your own happiness, and sometimes you're the one helping someone else pursue some happiness.

 

For example:

 

I'm going out to dinner--just me and dad--and you'll have to stay home with a sitter (Mom's happiness)

I'll give up 2 nights a week to take you to karate. (Kid's happiness)

[Free]

I've always thought personal happiness was a pretty selfish thing to search for and that by serving others, we would be "happy." I'm not sure I even thought there should be ANY importance placed on the elusive "happy" at all.

....

....

Just wondering what you think about the quest for PERSONAL happiness/fulfillment?

 

 

Would you have a different response to this if you replace the word "happiness" with the word "joy" or "peace" or "tranquility"? For me they all mean the same. For me, personally, my highest purpose is finding happiness (or joy). I believe that is impossible for humans to find meaning in their lives without that which causes them happiness.

 

I think it is a mistake to confound the things which cause happiness with the things which are pleasant and fun. In fact they can often be at cross purposes to each other.

[Caraway]

 

I'm actually reading up on theories of happiness for my studies and one long passage spoke of this very issue.

It spoke of a lost generation, unable to find happiness as their parents "Just wanted them to be happy", rather than great, so happiness was sought independant of the things that normally lead to happiness...Love of arts (music, fine arts, plays etc), pride at excelling in sport, accedemics etc, social engagement, charitable works etc etc.

That to strive for nothing other than personal happiness is a great way to completely evade it, as it is more of a by product than a separate achievable 'good'.

 

 

 

 

 

I would be interested to know where you read this. :bigear:

[SKL]

I believe that it is each person's *duty* to pursue happiness.

 

Happiness is a *choice* to be content and feel blessed and enjoy what one has vs. carrying baggage and regretting what one does not have.

 

If a person does not choose to be happy, that is going to negatively affect all of the people in their lives.

 

I didn't always feel this way; it's some of the wisdom I've gained with age.

[Audrey]

I believe that you have to choose to be happy, and that happiness can only come from within. Other people and other things can not provide you with happiness. You must choose it for yourself from within yourself. Sometimes it takes a lot of insistent choosing -- hard work -- to be happy, but I also I believe everyone has the capacity for happiness. Some people amaze me with their capacities for happiness despite their personal circumstances. I consider those people blessings in my life, and I strive to learn from them.

[Audrey]

I've seen too many people struggling with depression who really were not capable of just deciding to be happy. I've also seen dramatic improvement in mood brought about through appropriate use of antidepressants, which leads me to the conclusion that in at least some cases there is in fact a physiologic element to positive and negative mood that may be entirely outside of the individual's ability to "choose." As someone who is happy by nature, it feels to me that I am just choosing to be happy and others could/should do the same, but my actual observations of others and their accounts of the way they experience life leads me to believe that that is only partially/sometimes true.

 

 

 

 

 

Having been on the depressed side of the equation, I can tell you that I still believe happiness is a choice. You still have to choose it. Sometimes part of choosing that is taking that step to getting appropriate care for your depression. It is much harder to choose to be happy when you are depressed already, but it still has to be chosen. There really are some people who will not choose happiness because for myriad reasons they refuse to seek appropriate care for their depression. That, too, is a choice.

 

In the end, we all have to decide, and then we all must work to make that choice a reality. It is a different path for everyone. Some paths are full of rocks and thorns. Some aren't.

[SKL]

I think it's true that some people have a harder time choosing to be happy, but I think that's partly because of the cultural inclination to view the goal of happiness as selfish, silly, or unreachable.

 

When I say folks have a duty to pursue happiness, I choose those words because I want people to stop viewing it like a selfish frivolity. It should be a priority. I too have been on the unhappy side, and a lot of that was habit. It just seemed more interesting to talk about what wasn't right with the world (or with myself).

 

I agree with the person who said the Bible supports the goal of happiness. It seems to me that God wants people to be happy. If that is the case, why are so many of us systematically working against this goal?

[Pod's mum]

I would be interested to know where you read this. :bigear:

 

 

Well, you did ask...

 

Feinberg, J. (1995). "Psychological Egoism". In Ethical Theory, L. P. Pojman (ed.). Wadsworth, Belmont, pp. 69-80. Especially pp. 66-67, 11. The :"Paradox of Hedonism" and its Consequences for Education.

 

It traces the theory of psychological egoistic Hedonism as esposed by Jeremy Bentham, (18th Century) in which "all human motives without exception can be reduced to one- namely, the desire for one's own pleasure."

 

While listing some major problems with this theory Feinberg states..."An exclusive desire for happiness is the surest way to prevent happiness from coming into being. Happiness has a way of "sneaking up" on persons when they are preoccupied with other things; but when persons deliberately and single-mindedly set off in pursuit of happiness, it vanishes utterly from sight and cannot be captured. This is the famous "paradox of hedonism": the single-minded pursuit of happiness is necessarily self-defeating, for the way to get happiness is to forget it; then perhaps it will come to you. If you aim exculusively at pleasure itself, with no concern for the things that bring pleasure, then pleasure will never come."

<snip>

(People who) "most hottly pursue their own happiness are the least likely to find it. Happy people are those who successfully pursue such things as aesthetic or religious experiences, self-expression, service to others, victory in competitions, knowledge, power, and so on. If none of these things in themselves and for their own sakes mean anything to a person, if they are valued at all then only as a means to one's own pleasant state's of mind - then that pleasure can never come. The way to achieve happiness is to pursue something else."

<snip>

"The implications of the 'paradox of hedonism" for educational theory should be obvious. The parents least likely to raise a happy child are those who, even with the best intentions, train their children to seek happiness directly."

 

etc...

 

Food for thought?

 

If you'd like pm me and I might be able to email the paper. I'd be HAPPY to.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Pod's mum

[Pod's mum]

Hey does this mean (with reference to an earlier conversation about book readers)...

That I IS an intellectual after all?

[Free]

Well, you did ask...

 

Feinberg, J. (1995). "Psychological Egoism". In Ethical Theory, L. P. Pojman (ed.). Wadsworth, Belmont, pp. 69-80. Especially pp. 66-67, 11. The :"Paradox of Hedonism" and its Consequences for Education.

 

It traces the theory of psychological egoistic Hedonism as esposed by Jeremy Bentham, (18th Century) in which "all human motives without exception can be reduced to one- namely, the desire for one's own pleasure."

 

While listing some major problems with this theory Feinberg states..."An exclusive desire for happiness is the surest way to prevent happiness from coming into being. Happiness has a way of "sneaking up" on persons when they are preoccupied with other things; but when persons deliberately and single-mindedly set off in pursuit of happiness, it vanishes utterly from sight and cannot be captured. This is the famous "paradox of hedonism": the single-minded pursuit of happiness is necessarily self-defating, for the way to get happiness is to forget it; then perhaps it will come to you. If you aim exculusively at pleasure itself, with no concern for the things that bring pleasure, then pleasure will never come."

<snip>

(People who) "most hottly pursue their own happiness are the least likely to find it. Happy people are those who successfully pursue such things as aesthetic or religious experiences, self-expression, service to others, victory in competitions, knowledge, power, and so on. If none of these things in themselves and for their own sakes mean anything to a person, if they are valued at all then only as a means to one's own pleasant state's of mind - then that pleasure can never come. The way to achieve happiness is to pursue something else."

<snip>

"The implications of the 'paradox of hedonism" for educational theory should be obvious. The parents least likely to raise a happy child are those who, even with the best intentions, train their children to seek happiness directly."

 

etc...

 

Food for thought?

 

If you like pm me and I might be able to email the paper. I'd be HAPPY to.

 

 

This seems to confuse seeking pleasure with seeking happiness. They are not the same thing. And it is possible to have a single minded pursuit of happiness without mistaking pleasure for happiness.

[Steffanyace]

Take regular time for yourself to do something that recharges your battery. Think of that time to yourself as an investment in your family. Finding a hobby you enjoy or something that recharges your battery will give your children and hubby a happy wife/mom. That in itself is a gift to them.

 

Edit: Finding time to do that is what I always find so hard.

[LaxMom]

I always have sort of a bad reaction to questions of "finding" happiness. I'm sure it is because my mother has spent her life in pursuit of happiness in the form of what she finds amusing at the time, regardless of its effect on anyone around her.

 

I also tend to think happiness is something within, not pursued or gotten. I wonder, too, if "finding happiness" is a "middle class problem" that stems from not enough challenge - and, following, not enough satisfaction from real success - in our lives. I can't imagine "finding happiness" is something that third-world people are having a discussion about, and I doubt you'll find very many truly poor people in developed countries whingeing on about trying to find happiness, either. And, yet, there seem to be plenty of people who work tremendously hard just to have something close to enough, who strike me as generally happy...

 

And before anyone freaks out about my unwarranted attack, I mean that in a cultural sense, not in an individual one. I am in no way implying that if you are finding dissatisfaction with your, individual, life it is because you are too coddled and have too much time on your hands. Just saying that, as a social discussion, it seems to only happen in such areas.

[amy g.]

In the sake of full disclosure, my parents persued their own happiness and hobbies. We could sometimes be included if we preformed well and did not get in their way. My mother often justified this by stating that children will be happier when their parents are happier. Considering I was suicidal as a child. That theory never held water for me.

 

My sister and I handled it in exact opposite ways. She never had children, has never had to work, has a beautiful house and a maid, travels internationally several times a year, pursues her hobbies of music and furniture building. I do not think she is selfish. She is very happy. But she also knew that she could not decide to bring children into the world and then make her own happiness her highest goal. She will also take my children to stay with her for a week at a time, and tell them that they are the greatest gifts she has, so it all works out for us.

 

I chose to have as many children as I could and my promise to God was, "I won't be a slacker mom". I did not enjoy getting up at 3:00 am yesterday to go sell at the farmers market, but my 16 year old son went with me. We made it fun. In fact, we probably scared off a few customers with our laughing and teasing. It makes me happy to have such fun, smart, well-adjustment son.

 

When I got home, my husband had cleaned our bedroom for me. That made me happy. He took our 3 youngest girls to visit his mother 6 hours away. He made driving in the car fun for them.

 

I do not enjoy driving my kids to swim practice, piano lessons, horseback riding lessons, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts....but I truly enjoy the fruits of my labor. I enjoy having kids that really love spending time together. It makes me happy that they are so self confident and secure. My sister asked my son if he was ever scared. He said, "no, that's not something I ever feel". My sister told him that was a testament to his amazing parents, because when we were his age, our lives revolved around fear. It makes me happy that I had a goal of being the best parent I was capable of being, and seeing how it is bearing fruit now.

 

I used to be like Diane, and was always happy and optimistic. My best friend tells about a moment with me that changed her life. We were next door neighbors, our houses had flooded and our belongings were destroyed. We had no electricity either, so my windows were open. She was drawn to my house because we were laughing so hard and having so much fun. I called out the window,"Do you want to come up and eat pizza and pick out new carpet and wall paper?" So she did, and we sat on the tiny play kitchen chairs and looked at magazines and planned how we would repair our houses. Now she will call me and say,"I was lying in bed crying, feeling sorry for myself but I saw your face in my mind, and decided to just pick out wall paper instead" so I do believe there is a certain amount of choosing involved with happiness.

 

On the other hand, when I was 39, I decided I was ready for more children. I've been pregnant 7 times in the 7 years since then, having 2 children and 5 miscarriages. That has been very hard on my body and on my hormones. I've experienced depression now which I didn't even understand when I was just naturally happy.

 

I feel like I have choices here too. I want to give my self and my family the best shot at being happy. I gave up coffee, alcohol, sugar, artificial sugar and simple carbs. Those are not things that are going to contribute positively to a balanced body or emotions.

 

I've also added daily exercise. That does not have to take away from my family. We walk together in the evenings or go to the Y and swim.

 

FOR ME, I can take steps towards my own happiness without making my children sacrifice for me. If I want something that really will take from them, I refuse to do it. I chose to have them. I promised to do my best, and keeping promises makes me happy.

[lailasmum]

Personally I would swap the word happiness for peace or calm, I strive for those. I am not a very happy person naturally but certain things give me a sense of calm and stop my brain whirring out of control into unhappiness/depression and then I can handle the rest of life with a more positive attitude. One of these was taking steps to address the constant negative self talk in my head and realising I need to be creative to be balanced. I don't do well with routine, it makes me very unhappy. I don't feel massively fulfilled from just being a stay at home mum and I made the mistake of just doing stuff for home and for my family for about 7 years and got very down. I am taking more time for myselfnow, seeing friends and doing hobbies without guilt for the time and money it's taken.

 

Someone on a course I did recently wrote a book about happiness and simplifying their life. It makes a lot of sense because through a change of lifestyle they basically bought themselves time to do the things they love. They've stripped away alot of the things that make most people stressed and unhappy and made happiness easier to acheive for them.

[Heidi]

Peace and joy is something much deeper than "happiness". Happiness is fleeting and superficial. You can feel peace and joy even when you are lonely, overwhelmed, bored, devestated, etc.. No matter what bad things happen in life, we can enjoy peace when we have faith in Jesus Christ and live His teachings.

[kalanamak]

I don't know if I "do" anything. I'm a naturally happy, optimistic, cheerful person...and it just seems to be the way I am without me having to purposefully search out things (people, situations) to "make" me happy. I'm just happy. Or as Abraham Lincoln (I think it was him, LOL) once said, "Folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." I sincerely believe that.

 

 

I think there are more genes in this that is commonly admitted to. I'm a naturally cheerful person, and have very, very rarely had to put any effort into cheering myself up. Professionally, I watch people deal with unhappiness. Some is self-perpetuated, but some are just genetically cursed, or have had such horror-stories of a childhood, it got hardwired into them. Often a combo of both. There is also head-trauma. I've met some very cranky people who had a significant head-trauma.

 

I count my lucky stars. I've just known too many people with terrible burdens to think it is neatly all our own doing.

[Murphy101]

For me, happiness comes from acceptance. Once I have stopped resenting X and fighting against X, I have found peace with it and even enjoyment in it. Your X could be anything. My X has been many different things over the years. But the one thing they have in common is that either I can't change them or the price of changing them is unacceptable to me. An example could be a baby that just never seems to sleep. I have never been a CIO mom. Never will be a CIO mom. I have a deep inner aversion to hearing babies cry. So I long ago accepted that if the baby needs me, the baby needs me. Now I just take it in stride most of the time. Without grumps or unhappiness. I've even been known to take pictures at 2am of how cute baby is being. I doubt I would have been so cheery about it with baby number 1.

 

And balance isn't always constant. For us, it's is tidal. Periods of being extremely busy and on the go bc that is what my kids need. I'm not going to deny them college classes or training programs bc I'd rather stay home. But when classes are out? I am done. The end. Some people plan a ton of holiday stuff. I do not. I refuse. It's our down time to recuperate and recharge. People can come over for coffee and conversation, but no, I'm not replacing our business with different business. And I'm kind of witchy about Sundays. Mass and home. The end. I need that time to make it through all the other no rest times.

[FaithManor]

Everything in moderation is my motto. I could be selfish with my music career, quilting, etc. if I let it go to that extreme. However, selflessness to the exclusion of all else is an extreme that breeds disaster. The spirit needs time to be recharged just like the body.

 

I'm a better wife, mom, and citizen of my community when I pursue a moderate level of self-fulfillment.

 

Faith

[I.Dup.]

In the sake of full disclosure, my parents persued their own happiness and hobbies. We could sometimes be included if we preformed well and did not get in their way. My mother often justified this by stating that children will be happier when their parents are happier. Considering I was suicidal as a child. That theory never held water for me.

 

My sister and I handled it in exact opposite ways. She never had children, has never had to work, has a beautiful house and a maid, travels internationally several times a year, pursues her hobbies of music and furniture building. I do not think she is selfish. She is very happy. But she also knew that she could not decide to bring children into the world and then make her own happiness her highest goal. She will also take my children to stay with her for a week at a time, and tell them that they are the greatest gifts she has, so it all works out for us.

 

I chose to have as many children as I could and my promise to God was, "I won't be a slacker mom". I did not enjoy getting up at 3:00 am yesterday to go sell at the farmers market, but my 16 year old son went with me. We made it fun. In fact, we probably scared off a few customers with our laughing and teasing. It makes me happy to have such fun, smart, well-adjustment son.

 

When I got home, my husband had cleaned our bedroom for me. That made me happy. He took our 3 youngest girls to visit his mother 6 hours away. He made driving in the car fun for them.

 

I do not enjoy driving my kids to swim practice, piano lessons, horseback riding lessons, Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts....but I truly enjoy the fruits of my labor. I enjoy having kids that really love spending time together. It makes me happy that they are so self confident and secure. My sister asked my son if he was ever scared. He said, "no, that's not something I ever feel". My sister told him that was a testament to his amazing parents, because when we were his age, our lives revolved around fear. It makes me happy that I had a goal of being the best parent I was capable of being, and seeing how it is bearing fruit now.

 

I used to be like Diane, and was always happy and optimistic. My best friend tells about a moment with me that changed her life. We were next door neighbors, our houses had flooded and our belongings were destroyed. We had no electricity either, so my windows were open. She was drawn to my house because we were laughing so hard and having so much fun. I called out the window,"Do you want to come up and eat pizza and pick out new carpet and wall paper?" So she did, and we sat on the tiny play kitchen chairs and looked at magazines and planned how we would repair our houses. Now she will call me and say,"I was lying in bed crying, feeling sorry for myself but I saw your face in my mind, and decided to just pick out wall paper instead" so I do believe there is a certain amount of choosing involved with happiness.

 

On the other hand, when I was 39, I decided I was ready for more children. I've been pregnant 7 times in the 7 years since then, having 2 children and 5 miscarriages. That has been very hard on my body and on my hormones. I've experienced depression now which I didn't even understand when I was just naturally happy.

 

I feel like I have choices here too. I want to give my self and my family the best shot at being happy. I gave up coffee, alcohol, sugar, artificial sugar and simple carbs. Those are not things that are going to contribute positively to a balanced body or emotions.

 

I've also added daily exercise. That does not have to take away from my family. We walk together in the evenings or go to the Y and swim.

 

FOR ME, I can take steps towards my own happiness without making my children sacrifice for me. If I want something that really will take from them, I refuse to do it. I chose to have them. I promised to do my best, and keeping promises makes me happy.

 

I hope you don't mind me using you as an example, but you have shared freely on this issue in a couple of recent threads. It sounds like you are obviously doing a fabulous job with your kids. But I wonder how this wouldn't burn out most moms? You've shared that you have your kids in several activities each and run them around all the time and just "suck it up" because you believe that's what is best for them. Well that makes you out to be a great mom but what about moms who just can't handle that? You mentioned you had "as many children as you could"- do you think things would look any different if you had, say, 10 children instead of 5 and they were much closer together in age? Or maybe you simply wouldn't have chosen that, but some women do, and they really feel they ARE doing what is best by being open to life, giving their children siblings, having a large, warm, happy family etc. But that means that they can't give each individual child as much. Or maybe they should just "suck it up" and deal with it anyhow? Just curious about your thoughts on this.

[amy g.]

I understand exactly what you are saying. Let me be very clear. I only say that I just suck it up. I never think or tell other people that they should.

 

One of my dearest friends has 12 children. Her oldest sat with my kids for a week when I went with Dh to Barcelona for work. Both mother and daughter said they couldn't believe how much running around it was, and that was with my other friends picking up some of the slack like taking them to the all day swim meets.

 

There is no way my friend can do all of those activities with her children, but they are still work at their family business as we do, play sports, have family time and make sure each child has the opportunity to pursue their own talents. It just looks different then it does at my house.

 

I wish I could give examples, but I can't share stories about another family here. I'll just say that her children who are barely out of their teens and some still in HUMBLE me with their beautiful loving hearts and faithful Christian walks. I'm daily grateful for their friendship and good influence on my own children.

 

Do I think it would be better if they'd had fewer children so the older ones could have more activities and attention? Absolutely not. I feel the world would be a sadder place without those children.

 

I myself have very glaring weak areas. I've only said that it is important to me to do MY best. Practically every month I tell my son how I've made a new commitment to being a better mother to him. How I'm working on trusting him more as a grown up and appreciating him more and correcting him less. Sadly, the next month I have to recommit, but that is my best.

 

I think we do each other a disservice when we downplay how difficult parenting is. It is really grueling. It's a wonder anyone survives.

 

I once wrote my MIL a letter telling her that men as special as my husband don't just happen by accident, and thanking her for her hard work and sacrifice so that I can reap the rewards. She had 8 children and a disabled husband who didn't drive. My husband never had the luxuries my kids have, but she did her best, and that was clearly plenty good enough.

[I.Dup.]

I understand exactly what you are saying. Let me be very clear. I only say that I just suck it up. I never think or tell other people that they should.

 

One of my dearest friends has 12 children. Her oldest sat with my kids for a week when I went with Dh to Barcelona for work. Both mother and daughter said they couldn't believe how much running around it was, and that was with my other friends picking up some of the slack like taking them to the all day swim meets.

 

There is no way my friend can do all of those activities with her children, but they are still work at their family business as we do, play sports, have family time and make sure each child has the opportunity to pursue their own talents. It just looks different then it does at my house.

 

I wish I could give examples, but I can't share stories about another family here. I'll just say that her children who are barely out of their teens and some still in HUMBLE me with their beautiful loving hearts and faithful Christian walks. I'm daily grateful for their friendship and good influence on my own children.

 

Do I think it would be better if they'd had fewer children so the older ones could have more activities and attention? Absolutely not. I feel the world would be a sadder place without those children.

 

I myself have very glaring weak areas. I've only said that it is important to me to do MY best. Practically every month I tell my son how I've made a new commitment to being a better mother to him. How I'm working on trusting him more as a grown up and appreciating him more and correcting him less. Sadly, the next month I have to recommit, but that is my best.

 

I think we do each other a disservice when we downplay how difficult parenting is. It is really grueling. It's a wonder anyone survives.

 

I once wrote my MIL a letter telling her that men as special as my husband don't just happen by accident, and thanking her for her hard work and sacrifice so that I can reap the rewards. She had 8 children and a disabled husband who didn't drive. My husband never had the luxuries my kids have, but she did her best, and that was clearly plenty good enough.

 

Thank you for understanding what I was saying. :) It sounds like you do a fabulous job, and thank you for sharing this for those of us in different circumstances, it was very encouraging. :)