processing speed

[bradhollymc]

My ds11 was recently tested by our local school district at our request. They performed the Woodcock Johnson on him. I received their findings this week and need a little help/advice on how best to help my son. Their summary of the test is : "Cognitive testing revealed average levels of general ability, with relative strengths in visual perception and auditory processing, and a normative weakness in processing speed. His cognitive deficit in processing speed negatively impacts performance in all academic areas, particulary in mathematic calculation and written expression."

 

What sorts of therapies or things can we be doing at home to help this issue of processing speed?

[FairProspects]

I'm not sure there is much you can do about processing speed. We were told it is just something to be aware of and is one of the reasons ds qualifies for double time on tests.

[herekittykitty]

I don't know that a lot can improve it either. I think cognitive skill programs can help some. Learning RX claims to improve it. A friend of mine just did a 20 week program there with her child to improve processing speed, and according to their before and after assessments it went up by 20 percentile points or so. She's not sure that it will translate into his academic work though. And those were their assessments too, not an external one. Brainware Safari is a computer based cognitive training program to consider. I'm not convinced that any of these will make tremendous gains in processing speed but they probably help some and certainly can't hurt.

 

We are in the same boat with processing speed. My DS8's was at the 19th percentile. It's one of the reasons we don't do timed assessments, especially with math facts. It takes him a good 3-5 seconds to answer many of those. I am interested in the neurological basis of processing speed. The Dyslexic Advantage book talks some about it - not sure if dyslexia is an issue but it is good reading. I'm currently looking at programs like Interactive Metronome and Neuronet, which have to do with timing and the brain, and some people who have done them have reported improvements in processing speed.

[geodob]

Processing speed, is basically the ability to organize and order thoughts in our mind, and is used for planning.

Also the ability to think sequentially.

Where doing a math calculation relies on 'order of operations' thinking, so that we can think through the process in correct order.

Also written expression involves planning out the points/ topics to be covered. So that we know how they will all fit together, and where to start, and what comes next.

 

Though it essentially relies on spatial thinking. Where we use words and images to represent concepts in our mind, and then use spatial thinking to organize them.

But if we have a difficulty with spatially organizing and planning our thoughts?

Then we have to do a search to work out what comes next, which of course effects processing speed.

[wapiti]

The processing speed typically measured by IQ tests often involves motor output. When the report mentions written expression this is likely to be the case. I would allow oral work, work on a white board, and I'd teach both cursive (not for speed of writing so much as a therapy for sequential thinking with less motor movements) and definitely typing. I would avoid timed tests like the plague. I would keep track of accommodations you are using and re-test (privately if possible) on a three-year schedule in case the student may be able to get accommodations for the SATs.

 

I might also guess that you have a VSL and I'd choose curricula accordingly.

[bradhollymc]

We are looking ahead to the SAT in several years and decided that having this testing done was a first step toward accommodations for it. We had the school district do the testing because of the expense of private testing. I know that it isn't as thorough as private testing, but it gives us some place to start. We do a lot of oral work, extended time on assignments, and shortened assignments. We do a typing program and as often as it works out, he does written work on the computer. That has seemed to help tremendously.

 

What specific curriculums work well with a VSL?

[PeterPan]

 

What specific curriculums work well with a VSL?

 

 

I'd love to jump in here and help you, but that's really wide. Wanna narrow it down? What do you have that's working? Sometimes you change curriculum, and sometimes you change how you USE it. Partly depends on IQ and how far you can go with big picture learning. Partly depends on if they're dealing with any issues on the side (vision problems, whatever) holding back their VSL side. So I'm not sure there is some hard and fast LIST of what will work. If you find somebody on the board with a dc with the same gender, about the same IQ, about the same bent, I say read that person's posts and see what they've been using. Nuts, read posts by people you don't think exactly fit your situation. You might like to start with LoriD's, because she has boys. Literally just go through and read her old posts. Nan in Mass, ElegantLion, TokyoMarie, etc. etc. That's how I get inspiration.

[Tiramisu]

We are looking ahead to the SAT in several years and decided that having this testing done was a first step toward accommodations for it. We had the school district do the testing because of the expense of private testing. I know that it isn't as thorough as private testing, but it gives us some place to start. We do a lot of oral work, extended time on assignments, and shortened assignments. We do a typing program and as often as it works out, he does written work on the computer. That has seemed to help tremendously.

 

What specific curriculums work well with a VSL?

 

As far as the SAT and processing speed go, I remember reading that processing speed alone will not necessarily qualify you for SAT accommodations (perhaps on the college board website, but I'm not sure). Really, though, I suspect this is the case with most learning issues. They don't want to just see the weakness, they want to know that it affects things. As you start creating your paper trail, keep in mind that you will probably also want to have evidence that the processing speed is affecting his learning in the form of an achievement test like the Woodcock-Johnson. I think you probably had an achievement test as part of the evaluation, but I'm just throwing it out there as something to keep in mind.

[bradhollymc]

We use TT for math at the 4th grade level. This was a recent switch, and does seem successful. We had previously done MUS, but because of the dysgraphia, the written work was such a chore for him. Math was a meltdown subject. We also use Xtramath to remediate math facts.

 

For writing, we are using IEW. It also seems to be a sucess. We moved from ragged sentences to completed paragraphs and seemed to give the structure that he needed.

 

Spelling has been a hit or miss enterprise. It's a real area of struggle. Right now, we are using Calvert online spelling. At the beginning of the year, we were using a high frequency word list and trying to use a method that our vision therapist gave to us. It was extremly slow going.

 

For reading, we read books that coordinate with our history subject matter, his favorite subject. We are reading A Letter to Mrs. Roosevelt right now. History and Science are his favorite subjects and he does well with it.

 

He did do several months of vision therapy last spring that made a real difference in his overall reading performance. I think I had naively hoped that the vision therapy would take care of the other challenges that we continue see...poor handwriting, letter and number reversals, excessive time to do written and math assignments, poor recall of math facts in a computation setting. When I still saw these after the vision therapy, I knew that we had to peel another layer of the onion. We visited a neurologist who identified the dysgraphia and recommended further testing which led us to this point. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. I just want to help this boy who has such potential, but has the challenges to work through.

[dancingmama]

My ds, 10, has difficulty with processing speed as well as working memory and other things but this is what we're doing that has helped. He does interactive metronome weekly with a therapist. This has helped a lot in a variety of different things, especially attention but have notice improvements elsewhere. We of course do nothing timed (except for the metronome, of course). We do encourage play of games such as Dance Party that require him to time his steps with those on the tv. Don't know if it helps but figured that it requires him to at least practice processing quickly. We use Singapore Math for math, AAS for spelling, Logic of English for Cursive. Print is a nightmare so I don't go there anymore. I write for him right now if he needs to write something quickly (such as something for cub scouts). He did vision therapy but not sure if that helped with processing speed. He also sees an OT for fine motor skills and is working on hand strength as well as handwriting.

 

Funny, my son also loves history and science. He would look at books related to these two topics all day if we'd let him, which we often do.

[PeterPan]

Sounds like you're doing a lot of good things! Those are things similar to what we've done (TT, structured writing, historical fiction, VT, Calvert computer spelling), so seriously I think you're on track. I mean sure you can take it up a bit more (double spelling with another program, blh blah), but actually my first thought when I read your thing was to find something he's GOOD at and put your energy there. I know you KNOW that, but I'll just say it. Find something he's GOOD at and start putting energy there. He needs the positive vibes he gets from doing something well. And, frankly, that thing he does well is telling you an awful lot about his future. So definitely put some energy there. You're still at the age where you remediate. You're probably going to shift from that in the next year or two and start putting more energy into his positive stuff. Even our np (neuropsych) said to do that.

 

Other suggestion I had was typing. I assume you're working on that? You probably already said that, sorry. For us it never took off till we switched to Dvorak. If he's having trouble with the actual motions of typing, it's something to consider.

[bradhollymc]

My ds, 10, has difficulty with processing speed as well as working memory and other things but this is what we're doing that has helped. He does interactive metronome weekly with a therapist. This has helped a lot in a variety of different things, especially attention but have notice improvements elsewhere.

 

I have been reading about the interactive metronome and wondering if this is a possible therapy for us to explore. Are there articles/websites you could point me to?

[bradhollymc]

I mean sure you can take it up a bit more (double spelling with another program, blh blah), but actually my first thought when I read your thing was to find something he's GOOD at and put your energy there. I know you KNOW that, but I'll just say it. Find something he's GOOD at and start putting energy there.

 

Thank you for saying this. I feel like I put so much energy to figuring out how to best meet the challenges that I lose sight of this fabulous child who does have many things he excels in. My husband said after reading the testing report that it is more important now than ever to be putting energy into the strengths and encouraging him in that direction. But oh, how I often fail at this!!

 

We are doing typing and use the computer for as much written work as possible. He has taken to it pretty well, and seems to be progressing, but I'll check out Dvorak.

[PeterPan]

Dvorak is an alternate keyboard layout. It seemed like the more we worked on typing, the more dd went to pecking. We started in 1st, and by 7th she was, well let's just say she tested below 10 wpm. It was pathetic. And she was becoming an inveterate pecker. Switched her to Dvorak, where all your fingers essentially stay on the home row, and she took off. I've been told typing problems are common with dysgraphia, don't know. If QWERTY is working fine for him, it's not an issue. At that point her handwriting was painful AND the typing wasn't going well. I was concerned, because of course functional is the goal. Dh thought I was nuts, but it made a profound difference for her. Very seldom does anyone on the boards here bite though on that bit of advice, so there you go. :)

 

Strengths? Yeah, you actually have to make a time slot in the day for it. You tally up his work and keep it low enough that when he's done he still has 1-2 hours a day of energy and mental reserve to give to something he's really good at. You make a spot for it in your homeschool budget. You prioritize it. My dd is a doer, so with her it's things like sewing, cooking... Last semester she sewed elf dresses to wear to the Hobbit. This semester she wants to make messenger bags (more sewing), and I might introduce her to machine knitting. Probably no help for your boy. :lol: You can see though they're things where I make large chunks of time, even putting aside other academics, and I commit money and build it in, making it just as valuable as school. With a boy, it might be something more mechanical or time learning to do something with his hands, whatever he might be good at...

[herekittykitty]

Have you looked at the site www.visualspatial.org? I really like Linda Silverman and she has a lot of practical suggestions and I believe a list of curriculum that are VSL friendly.

 

On another note, we are starting IM in March I believe. I will let you all know how it is going as I know there have been a lot of posts about it lately.

[Tiramisu]

Strengths? Yeah, you actually have to make a time slot in the day for it. You tally up his work and keep it low enough that when he's done he still has 1-2 hours a day of energy and mental reserve to give to something he's really good at. You make a spot for it in your homeschool budget. You prioritize it. My dd is a doer, so with her it's things like sewing, cooking... Last semester she sewed elf dresses to wear to the Hobbit. This semester she wants to make messenger bags (more sewing), and I might introduce her to machine knitting. Probably no help for your boy. :lol: You can see though they're things where I make large chunks of time, even putting aside other academics, and I commit money and build it in, making it just as valuable as school. With a boy, it might be something more mechanical or time learning to do something with his hands, whatever he might be good at...

 

We recently had an incident where dd became extremely frustrated and upset. She had to write several long responses on an important volunteer application. Immediately after, we had to quickly jump in the car to get to a lesson. Completely, out of the blue, during the car ride, dd said to me, "I don't care what she says (the NP), I have an LD." (I am still waiting for our most recent evaluation scores, BTW.) "Every time a new thought enters my mind, everything has to stop for 15 seconds. Then when there are multiple thoughts, it's like they each have to go through a funnel at the rate of 1 per minute." She was so overwhelmed, she didn't think she could go into her lesson, afraid she would burst into tears in front of her teacher, but she did go in. I went in an hour later to pay the teacher and dd came out of the room smiling and laughing. Stressed erased.

 

We do these lessons because they are necessary for dd's future plans, at considerable expense and a sacrifice of time and somewhat complicated logistics. Over time, I have come to realize that the value of this, really, will not be skills gained for future education and employment, but that she has learned a way to feel good in a good and worthy way.

 

I'm sharing this story because, I hope, it supports what OhE is saying about the importance of supporting them in their strengths and creative endeavors because it will make a difference for them at the very core. As a therapist once said to us, with these processing issues, (life) can be like pushing a medicine ball uphill. Normal, everyday, necessary things can take a lot out of them, so it's crucial to balance that with what they enjoy and what they are good at. It will replenish and refresh them and keep them happy. In the same vein, choosing curriculum that jibes with their tastes and their way of learning is another way to preserve their time and energy.

[PeterPan]

Tiramisu, that's a beautiful story! And you're right, it so captivates where this is going. A lot of people here on the boards were starting to catch onto this, and some of them migrated off to their own world. That's their business, but I think you've caught it really well. There are lots of ways the academic side fleshes out, but you've caught the EMOTIONAL side of where it has to go to keep them healthy and happy. And that's when you find the sweet spot, where you feel like it's working and where this issues of how your dc compares on xyz facet matter a lot less.

[Terabith]

Speaking of, and unrelated, does anyone know where yllek has gone?

[Tiramisu]

Speaking of, and unrelated, does anyone know where yllek has gone?

 

 

I've been thinnking about her, too.

[FairProspects]

After it became clear how public and searchable this board is, yllek made the personal decision not to post anymore. I miss her too!

[Terabith]

I understand......but I REALLY wish she would come back! She has such great advice. Is she lurking or has she deleted herself?

[FairProspects]

She may be a lurker, but as far as I know she is definitely not coming back. :(

[Tiramisu]

If you're lurking yllek...I miss you and send you my love and lots of hugs.

[onaclairadeluna]

I just stumbled across this link. I thought you all might be interested. http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.04/S_Proc/index.htm

[bradhollymc]

I just stumbled across this link. I thought you all might be interested. http://www.familylig..._Proc/index.htm

 

These are some interesting articles. I notice that in my reading that many suggest that helping increase reading fluency can help across the content areas. Does anyone have a book they use or software to help with reading fluency? Our vision therapy used some kind of software that set a wpm time to read a passage and used a moving window to keep my son on that pace. Has anyone used anything like this?

[Lolly]

We recently had an incident where dd became extremely frustrated and upset. She had to write several long responses on an important volunteer application. Immediately after, we had to quickly jump in the car to get to a lesson. Completely, out of the blue, during the car ride, dd said to me, "I don't care what she says (the NP), I have an LD." (I am still waiting for our most recent evaluation scores, BTW.) "Every time a new thought enters my mind, everything has to stop for 15 seconds. Then when there are multiple thoughts, it's like they each have to go through a funnel at the rate of 1 per minute." She was so overwhelmed, she didn't think she could go into her lesson, afraid she would burst into tears in front of her teacher, but she did go in. I went in an hour later to pay the teacher and dd came out of the room smiling and laughing. Stressed erased.

 

We do these lessons because they are necessary for dd's future plans, at considerable expense and a sacrifice of time and somewhat complicated logistics. Over time, I have come to realize that the value of this, really, will not be skills gained for future education and employment, but that she has learned a way to feel good in a good and worthy way.

 

I'm sharing this story because, I hope, it supports what OhE is saying about the importance of supporting them in their strengths and creative endeavors because it will make a difference for them at the very core. As a therapist once said to us, with these processing issues, (life) can be like pushing a medicine ball uphill. Normal, everyday, necessary things can take a lot out of them, so it's crucial to balance that with what they enjoy and what they are good at. It will replenish and refresh them and keep them happy. In the same vein, choosing curriculum that jibes with their tastes and their way of learning is another way to preserve their time and energy.

 

 

I so strongly agree with your dd! Mine scores a 0% on processing speed. Yet, she doesn't have an ld??? How on earth can they consider the inability to work quickly to not be a learning disability? I do hope this changes in the future. Our evaluator evidently agrees and dxed her as ADD in addition so that she could be allowed extra time on tests. (She has other processing issues in addition to speed.) For the op, we have found nothing that helps. It seems to just be a matter of wiring (which isn't something you can change). The advice to make sure to do things that dc are good at is spot on. Constantly working on weaknesses is not good for a body.

[kbutton]

I have been looking at these boards for a while but have never posted. I am not sure if my comment belongs here, but the context presented is so close to what we deal with that I am going to ask my question here. I apologize if that is not how forums are supposed to work, and I don't mean to divert attention from the original question. I hope some of the same posters will reply with insight or to tell me how to supply this context in a new thread.

My son has an extremely high WISC processing speed, but has many, many of the same problems listed in this thread that are attributed to slow processing ("poor handwriting, letter and number reversals, excessive time to do written and math assignments, poor recall of math facts in a computation setting"). When I read the article links included in this thread regarding low processing speed from the Family Light website, it sounded like they were talking about my child (rigid expectations, poor transitions, etc.). Does anyone know why a high processor would have the same symptoms as a low processor? My son's processing speed index is far ahead of working memory, verbal reasoning, and perceptual reasoning (all of which were higher than normal scores). Our testing psychologist did not mention that any of these discrepancies is a red flag for further testing, so we are in the process of finding another psychologist. I've been searching for information for months and finding nothing.

[Tiramisu]

 

I have been looking at these boards for a while but have never posted. I am not sure if my comment belongs here, but the context presented is so close to what we deal with that I am going to ask my question here. I apologize if that is not how forums are supposed to work, and I don't mean to divert attention from the original question. I hope some of the same posters will reply with insight or to tell me how to supply this context in a new thread.

 

My son has an extremely high WISC processing speed, but has many, many of the same problems listed in this thread that are attributed to slow processing ("poor handwriting, letter and number reversals, excessive time to do written and math assignments, poor recall of math facts in a computation setting"). When I read the article links included in this thread regarding low processing speed from the Family Light website, it sounded like they were talking about my child (rigid expectations, poor transitions, etc.). Does anyone know why a high processor would have the same symptoms as a low processor? My son's processing speed index is far ahead of working memory, verbal reasoning, and perceptual reasoning (all of which were higher than normal scores). Our testing psychologist did not mention that any of these discrepancies is a red flag for further testing, so we are in the process of finding another psychologist. I've been searching for information for months and finding nothing.

 

I'm not an expert but I think a *relatively* lower working memory compared to the other higher scores can also look like low processing speed. The things you indicate could be working memory issues.

 

The pattern of scores can also be significant. I often wished I could find an expert to put it all together for me, but I don't know if it's ever as easy as that. I'm really hoping I walk out of the NP's office fully satisfied I have answers after reviewing the scores, but, sadly, I'm not completely hopeful.

 

If you wanted to start a new thread and, without sharing actual scores because of privacy issues, indicate higher or lower or much higher or much lower, or something along those lines, we can play at being experts. Or you could always PM someone here who seems to you to have experience with the WISC and the kinds of things you're dealing with. I pm'd scores to several people in the past, and may yet again. ;)

[kbutton]

I'm not an expert but I think a *relatively* lower working memory compared to the other higher scores can also look like low processing speed. The things you indicate could be working memory issues.

 

The pattern of scores can also be significant. I often wished I could find an expert to put it all together for me, but I don't know if it's ever as easy as that. I'm really hoping I walk out of the NP's office fully satisfied I have answers after reviewing the scores, but, sadly, I'm not completely hopeful.

 

If you wanted to start a new thread and, without sharing actual scores because of privacy issues, indicate higher or lower or much higher or much lower, or something along those lines, we can play at being experts. Or you could always PM someone here who seems to you to have experience with the WISC and the kinds of things you're dealing with. I pm'd scores to several people in the past, and may yet again. ;)

 

I think I will start by writing a new post that talks about the differences in scores. Would you suggest posting the actual discrepancies but not the score numbers? For instance, stating that there PSI is x points higher than WMI, but not stating the score for either? I have heard that low working memory can look like some of these issues also, but the comments and links sounded way too familiar to not ask the question in a processing speed context. Thank you for your suggestions and encouragement.

[wapiti]

*sigh* I had yet another psych conference today, FWIW, on a new round of testing on one of my ds9s. My one seemingly "normal" (relative to two of the others) kiddo was re-tested. PS dropped - his symbol search score pulls him up, but his coding score is at the 5th percentile (handwriting). No wonder he was freaking out about school. Oddly, his WM score dropped nearly two standard deviations from last time, though interestingly the psych noted that could be due to a number of things, such as anxiety/panic in the moment, attention/focus issues, etc. At least this time she was able to calculate a GAI.

 

We have been referred for OT eval, VT eval, and eval with a special typing OT.

[Tiramisu]

I think I will start by writing a new post that talks about the differences in scores. Would you suggest posting the actual discrepancies but not the score numbers? For instance, stating that there PSI is x points higher than WMI, but not stating the score for either? I have heard that low working memory can look like some of these issues also, but the comments and links sounded way too familiar to not ask the question in a processing speed context. Thank you for your suggestions and encouragement.

 

You could do that. I guess it's just a matter of what you are most comfortable with. Some people don't mind at all to post actual scores. Some are more reticent. I think I try be a bit prudent but sometimes I just need to get it all out and plan to go back and delete, hoping no one quoted. :)

[Tiramisu]

*sigh* I had yet another psych conference today, FWIW, on a new round of testing on one of my ds9s. My one seemingly "normal" (relative to two of the others) kiddo was re-tested. PS dropped - his symbol search score pulls him up, but his coding score is at the 5th percentile (handwriting). No wonder he was freaking out about school. Oddly, his WM score dropped nearly two standard deviations from last time, though interestingly the psych noted that could be due to a number of things, such as anxiety/panic in the moment, attention/focus issues, etc. At least this time she was able to calculate a GAI.

 

We have been referred for OT eval, VT eval, and eval with a special typing OT.

I'm sorry, wapiti. :grouphug: I hope having these answers will help you with the schooling.