Hake for 5th instead of continuing with Voyages in English? Seeking input from Hake users.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I know virtually no one uses ViE, so this thread may echo a bit. :lol:

 

I have been perfectly happy with ViE (to the point that I am surprised at myself for even starting this thread). However, it is pricey and I don't use the writing much at all, which kind of makes it seem even pricier. ;) Hake looks comparable. Also, the cut and dry writing seems less froofy and more worthwhile than that in ViE. I plan to continue with IEW and possibly start WWS with oldest DS next year (although most likely in 6th), so the quality of the writing component of Hake is less important to me than the quality of the grammar component. Still, I like lots of fodder for our writing workshop and LOVE feeling like I am hitting the high notes in what would be a typical PS LA program. (I have an ever so slight "what if I get hit by a bus?!" complex.)

 

If you can compare Hake with ViE, one million points to you. If you can just sell me on Hake, good enough. :D

[Susie in CA]

Imho, ViE is a much better Grammar program than Hake. I tried to use but my son at the time just couldn't deal with it. That is why i switched to Hake. I like it fine. It is doing the job. I do wish that I kept ViE for my younger DS because I see that Hake is way too easy for him. Somehow, they always end up doing the same things, though.

 

All this to say, if you can afford it and it works well for you I would stick with ViE. Hake is a good alternative if you need it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

This is somehow not at all what I expected to hear! It is reassuring though. I own grades 3 and 4 already, plus the 6th grade student text. I always liked that ViE could take the kids from 3-8 without (I thought :lol:) me having to rethink anything. After the initial investment year of buying the full set for oldest DS, I just have to buy the (cheap) practice and assessment books for the next kids in line. Interesting food for thought. Thanks!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

We used VIE briefly before switching to Hake. Hake is no frills--doesn't have the glossy gorgeousness that drew me to VIE, but it is easier for us to implement.

 

I wanted a LA program to calm my "gaps" and "bus" fears. We are getting bells/whistles/frills/glossiness elsewhere, so what I needed was a "get it done quickly" program to allay my fears. Hake does that. (At a great price, too!)

 

We skipped straight to grade 7, and I'm glad we did--tons of review. I remember feeling the same with VIE about not needing to do every grade.

 

I like the short lessons written directly to the student. I like that beside each review set question there is a lesson number in case the student needs a quick refresher. It's easy to just flip to that lesson without spending time trying to remember where that concept was explained. The vocab with each lesson is a plus.

 

Here are a few sample diagram sentences toward the end. The earlier ones are easier, of course.

 

The Mycenaeans, whom I read about, sailed great distances to trade their goods.

During the first century, Cid won several cities for his king, who reigned for thirty-one years.

Knowing the numerical value of some Greek prefixes increases our vocabulary.

 

It takes maybe 10 min to do a lesson and the practice questions. We only do the review sets once a week or so. Otherwise it would be too much for us, especially since this is just one of many LA programs we are using.

 

So maybe not a review worthy of a million points, but hopefully it helps at least a bit. ;)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I kinda like Hake, but I just wish it was more challenging. If you have a kid who picks up on grammar easily it will be very boring.

 

True. Challenging and exciting are not words I would associate with Hake. Looking back, we should have gone straight to Hake 8.

 

I'm not so sure the issue is unique to Hake, though. We've never met a "get it done" type program that was thrilling. ;)

[Alte Veste Academy]

The repetition is definitely not unique to Hake. I think it's just the nature of the beast with most traditional grammar programs. The funny thing is that we use MCTLA too. DS9 likes it. DD loves it. I love it too, but felt a need to supplement with a more traditional grammar program with diagramming. Enter ViE, which is getting the job done and is well liked by all. The only negative really is the price. I do all of the textbook work orally with them. They only have to do the practice book and diagramming by hand and it really takes no time at all. Because there is so much repetition from year to year, DS9 and DD are typically covering similar topics around the same time, making it easy to incorporate current grammar concepts into the writing workshop. I imagine it would be the same with Hake.

 

I think I will spend more time looking at samples today, comparing topic for topic as I can.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I will say too that I am coming to have a slightly different view of busywork than I once did. I don't think repetitive, simple work on known concepts qualifies in my mind as busywork anymore. It is more like applied memory work to me. Instead of oral recitation though, the proof of knowledge comes through applying learned concepts and spiraling through them regularly enough to maintain the knowledge without ever forgetting and relearning.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

There isn't all that much outlining in Hake 6 though (and probably less in Hake 5).

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. WWS is our main source for outlining. We're only doing the grammar portion of Hake, but so far there has been no outlining.

[Alte Veste Academy]

There isn't all that much outlining in Hake 6 though (and probably less in Hake 5).

 

You want me to mail you Hake 6? Maybe we can do some sort of trade?

 

 

LOL We are outlining out the wazoo in IEW and I know we will get it later with WWS too.

 

I doubt I have any good trades since the move. I have got my ViE 6th grade text out now, comparing to the Hake 6 samples online. I will let you know. Thanks!

[Alte Veste Academy]

I was thinking the same thing. WWS is our main source for outlining. We're only doing the grammar portion of Hake, but so far there has been no outlining.

 

LOL

But doy, I think I meant to say "diagramming". There isn't much of that either!

 

 

Ha! That makes sense. I do like the diagramming in ViE...

[Alte Veste Academy]

They both have their pros and cons--love Hake's review sets (but are they too much, and ViE has daily maintenance as well), love ViE's layout and diagramming, don't need Hake's vocab & journaling, kids are used to/compliant with ViE, writing is probably even and will mostly be unused anyway...

 

Since I already own 6th grade ViE, it just occurred to me that the money savings could just as easily come from moving DS9 straight into that instead of 5th next year. Then next year, I could just figure out what to do from there. As we get further in to MCTLA, I imagine potentially dropping supplemental grammar altogether.

 

For the comparison, I had DS9 bring me our whole ViE inventory and got a barrage of questions about my intentions. Then lots of raised eyebrows. :lol: He was not a fan of the look of Hake. It seems fairly similar in scope and structure but night and day as far as layout.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

As we get further in to MCTLA, I imagine potentially dropping supplemental grammar altogether.

 

If you do that, you are braver than I am by far! We are in level 4 of MCT, and I still can't let go of supplemental grammar. I'm thinking once we get through Hake 8 I will be OK dropping it. Maybe, possibly, if I have to. ;)

 

For the comparison, I had DS9 bring me our whole ViE inventory and got a barrage of questions about my intentions. Then lots of raised eyebrows. :lol: He was not a fan of the look of Hake.

 

:smilielol5: Looks like you may have your answer right there!

[Alte Veste Academy]

If you do that, you are braver than I am by far! We are in level 4 of MCT, and I still can't let go of supplemental grammar. I'm thinking once we get through Hake 8 I will be OK dropping it. Maybe, possibly, if I have to. ;)

 

:smilielol5: Looks like you may have your answer right there!

 

Yeah, I felt like I was telling a lie even when I typed that...like, yeah, Future Me isn't going to obsess about this at all. That is likely... :lol:

 

I think DS has effectively made our decision. That's a good thing though, right? An almost ten year old boy so (reasonably) happy with his grammar program that he wholeheartedly requests that you stop looking at samples of the competing product? :lol:

[Alte Veste Academy]

Have you considered Exercises in English by Loyola Press? It seems to be the VIE grammar without the writing portions.

 

Yes, I ruled it out when I started with ViE last year. I like the (hand-me-downable) hardcover text and practice book combo with ViE. Also, although I don't use the writing as laid out in ViE, I do sort of use the lessons/genre studies as a guide for what to introduce. I like the idea that the skeleton of the typical PS S&S are at my fingertips.

 

Maybe I am just a little restless because I've found what works and miss the joy of the hunt. :lol: I think I will just turn my attention to lit and historic fiction for next year. And maybe plan another summer unit study.