Updated: So I have this trespassing/illegal hunting problem...

[BrookValley.]

If you're interested in being tortured by my mega-long rant, you can read the original post/backstory below, beneath the ***. But brief description of a new development in my ongoing drama to reclaim my property from trespassers: First, my mother and I calmed down and it turned out--as I suspected--that she was totally in agreement with my opinions on the matter (nothing like arguing for the sake of arguing, eh?). So, we called the person suspected of setting up an illegal hunting stand on our property to politely turn down his request (said person had sent us a letter asking if we would be interested in selling part of our property. I thought it pretty bold, considering) and make it known that the authorities had been contacted and further trespassing would be dealt with accordingly. However, it turns out that said letter-writing person is NOT the person hunting on our property. Letter-writing person is the person I ran off on an ATV a few weeks ago.

 

After speaking with ATV guy (and my husband), it turns out that ATV guy thought he was in the clear to ride his ATV in our wooded areas. He had a conversation over the fence with my husband a couple months ago--what ATV neighbor took from that was that he was ok to cruise around back there. My husband had apparently, as he is wont to do, communicated with non-commital grunts throughout the conversation. While my husband did not intend to give him permission, he admits that he could have easily been misunderstood (this would have been great information to know as I was chasing this guy through the woods, teaching him and my child a few choice and very profane phrases along the way). I love DH, but he is not the greatest verbal communicator on the planet. However, the good news is that ATV neighbor may not be a total disrespectful jerk. Actually, ATV neighbor guy and wife seem to be pretty pleasant and easy-going folks. The reason for inquiring about buying some property was, in addition to wanting a little more land for fun stuff, that this guy noticed deer stands on the property--and he was hoping to provide some buffer between him and these activities. He does not hunt at all and has the same concerns we do about folks hunting in close proximity to homes and whatnot.

 

So, I still don't know who the heck set up the hunting stuff and we'll be working further to figure it out and keep him/others off the property. But it appears it may not be a close neighbor--and it looks like we may have actually found an ally in one of our closer neighbors. Cool.

 

 

**************************************************************************************************************

and it just got a little more interesting...I posted about a week or so ago here, if you're interested in my long rant about people not respecting other people's property. Well, I had to post again. I'm just not quite sure if I should laugh or scream (well, I think I've done both).

 

So in a nutshell, we recently found evidence of trespassing and illegal hunting on my property (the subject of my above-linked rant). A lot of evidence--they had set up deer stands, were baiting with corn, etc. I was eventually able to figure out the identity of the person via the equipment I found on my property, equipment which I confiscated per the instructions from our local authorities. The person is from a neighboring property, in the little "McMansion" neighborhood next door with small-ish (2-3 acre) lots. I had not yet attempted to contact the person, instead (again, per law enforcement advice) waiting to see if 1) we could catch them in the act, and/or 2) if they would contact us wanting their stuff back.

 

Well, they made contact first. Yesterday I received a nice letter in the mail asking if we would consider selling part of our property to them for a "reasonable" price.

 

Translation: We were happily taking advantage of your property illegally and for free, but now that we've been busted, maybe you could just sell us some of it for dirt cheap so we can continue taking advantage of it, albeit legally now?

 

:laugh: :confused1: :cursing: :ohmy: :nopity: :smilielol5: :rofl:

 

I haven't called them yet. I am not, in any way shape or form, interested in selling them any of the land. First, I don't want to sell it to anybody. Second, there's probably no way to divide the property that would make good sense, at least for us. We'd basically have to orphan a piece of ours so they could have access to property bordering theirs. Third, I don't want anyone I don't know hunting that close to me, my kids, and my animals. Fourth, I think (though not positive) subdividing the property would cause us to lose our current tax status, causing our property taxes to at least triple, which we could not afford. Fifth ...well, I could go on. I don't like the idea, and I don't think it's feasible, anyway. Problem is, I own 50% of the farm. My mother is the other name on the deed, and she is ecstatic. All she is seeing is dollar signs (though I doubt even a fair price on the property in question is enough to make a huge difference to us--short term, yes, long term, no). Now she's telling me "you don't use the land anyway. Who cares?" No, we haven't done a lot with the wooded parts in the last few years. The house, the animals, starting a family, etc., all mean we haven't spent a lot of time out on the trails. But that doesn't mean that we won't--I want my kids to be able to enjoy this property. I don't want to carve it up into weird pieces and give it away to some jerk with few scruples as to what is respectful or even legal.

 

So now, in addition to trespassing neighbor dude, I have to deal with my mother, who is now furious at me for expressing my opinion as "dismissing her idea." I noticed that the letter was missing this morning. I think my mother has already, or will, call him to get chummy and see how much money the deal is worth to him. I believe he needs to be politely confronted about his actions and then told we're not interested, period.

 

UGH. That is all.

[Tullia]

Hmm...Mr. McMansion has some nerve.... :glare:

[elegantlion]

Ugh, I'm sorry, how difficult.

[Myra]

I think you need to take this letter and give a copy to the police to add to the file to help build the trespassing case against your neighbors. Even if you don't prosecute this time, it's on file officially to support your claims. Also ask the police/lawyer how you should respond to the letter in a manner that legally helps your "file" - perhaps not a simple no, but words that state that you are aware of their trespassing, confiscation of illegal blinds, etc.

 

I, too, wouldn't sell the property if I could afford to hold on to it. Talk to your mother ASAP and get her to see the "future" for your children - inheritance, safety from hunters, etc.

 

Good luck,

Myra

[Jean in Newcastle]

Can you buy your mom's portion?

[QuirkyKapers]

Can you buy your mom's portion?

 

This is what I was wondering as well.

[BrookValley.]

I think you need to take this letter and give a copy to the police to add to the file to help build the trespassing case against your neighbors. Even if you don't prosecute this time, it's on file officially to support your claims. Also ask the police/lawyer how you should respond to the letter in a manner that legally helps your "file" - perhaps not a simple no, but words that state that you are aware of their trespassing, confiscation of illegal blinds, etc.

 

I, too, wouldn't sell the property if I could afford to hold on to it. Talk to your mother ASAP and get her to see the "future" for your children - inheritance, safety from hunters, etc.

 

Good luck,

Myra

 

I would be lying if I said I wasn't foaming at the mouth to go back to the police, now that I have exactly what they want/need to serve him with an official trespassing violation. But I still have to live nearby. Maybe I am overly paranoid--actually, I know I can be--but I worry about them being angry and taking it out on my animals or something. However, I'm not inclined to let it rest in the name of neighborly good graces. I fully intend to confront him, though I will be calm and respectful about it. If he does cause any trouble or I get a hint of attitude, oh it's going back to the police, for sure. He will be made aware that I have already talked to the authorities and there is already a paper trail started.

 

I've already explained all that to my mom. She thinks I'm just trying to be in control and get my way. She thinks we'll be able to make all sorts of home improvements, build a new barn, etc., etc., if we have money from selling some land. However, we are unlikely to get enough money to do even half of those things. We do not need to sell any land from a financial standpoint. I don't have immediate cash flow to, say, build a new barn, but there's no reason (we've actually made tentative plans already) that we can't do so with a loan in the next 4-5 years.

 



 

Can you buy your mom's portion?

 

Unfortunately, there's no way I could afford to do that anytime soon, even if she would agree to it. And I don't think either one of us actually wants to do that, anyway, she's just ticked off.

[Remudamom]

Sounds like if mom isn't on your side you're screwed. Sorry, but I'd do a bit of manipulating. She doesn't care about the kids. What about their welfare, room to play, happiness?

[RoughCollie]

First thing I would do is bring the deed to a lawyer so you can find out what your legal rights are.

 

Second thing I would do is find as many articles about hunting accidents as you can. Sometimes those bullets go right into livestock, pets, and people who live right where hunting is taking place. Give the articles to your mother to bolster your view. While you are at it, include the articles about hunters who drink alcohol while hunting, and those who mistake a flash of white for a deer.

 

Here's an article about a story I will never forget: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/09/10/magazine/a-killing-in-maine.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

 

The people who live in the houses around you may not be so happy to have people hunting so close to them either. Bullets don't just shoot out of a gun and fall by the wayside -- a hunter's bullet can travel 1-2 miles, maybe more, depending on what he is using to kill deer.

 

So, if you don't plan on hunting on your land, if all else fails, you can raise a big stink about this being a dangerous use of the land if your Mom is able to sell some of it to a hunter.

[BrookValley.]

Sounds like if mom isn't on your side you're screwed. Sorry, but I'd do a bit of manipulating. She doesn't care about the kids. What about their welfare, room to play, happiness?

 

Well, neither one of us can do anything (re: selling the property) without the other's signature. Worst case is it blows up so much that we sell the property outright, split it, and go our separate ways (again, neither one of us actually wants this--we're both just mad). Her argument was that I shouldn't ever go out into the trails, or allow the kids in the woods, because people will always be hunting illegally and we will never stop them. To which I say bull----, naturally. Ok, maybe I'll avoid the woods the first week of gun season, but I'm not living scared on my own property. I fully intend to get a more proactive in policing the property (also literally--I have a family member that is a police officer and he will gladly come patrol the property in exchange for the opportunity to come hunt. I also have other family members willing to do the same). Her argument to that is that I'm just running off at the mouth and I won't actually make any effort to keep people off the property. Again, not true. I have chased a guy on an ATV twice in the past couple weeks. I took down the deer stand and other stuff. I and my husband both have been back twice in the past week posting sign after sign. Should I have been hiking back here more frequently in the past few years? Yes. Did I ever abandon the property or intend to never use it? No. My husband and my kiddo hike down the other side of the property all the time. We do use it, just not as much as we'd like. Sometimes having a lot of farm responsibilities and having young children gets in the way of lots of things we'd like to do. We've been worrying about maintaining our actual open, pastured farm space, and the wooded acreage had to be put on the back burner. I don't think we should be punished for that.

[BrookValley.]

First thing I would do is bring the deed to a lawyer so you can find out what your legal rights are.

 

Second thing I would do is find as many articles about hunting accidents as you can. Sometimes those bullets go right into livestock, pets, and people who live right where hunting is taking place. Give the articles to your mother to bolster your view. While you are at it, include the articles about hunters who drink alcohol while hunting, and those who mistake a flash of white for a deer.

 

Here's an article about a story I will never forget: http://www.nytimes.c...nted=all&src=pm

 

The people who live in the houses around you may not be so happy to have people hunting so close to them either. Bullets don't just shoot out of a gun and fall by the wayside -- a hunter's bullet can travel 1-2 miles, maybe more, depending on what he is using to kill deer.

 

So, if you don't plan on hunting on your land, if all else fails, you can raise a big stink about this being a dangerous use of the land if your Mom is able to sell some of it to a hunter.

 

 

She honestly won't try to sell anything without my permission. She'll attempt to make my life a living hell because she's angry at me, but she won't fight it to that point. I'm fuming from having to argue right now because we both know exactly what to say to push each other's buttons and booooyyyy is she under my skin right now!

 

Oh, trust me, that was my big argument--that it is just not safe to have someone hunting that close to us. Her counterpoint is that people are going to be doing it anyway and we just shouldn't ever go into the woods (ridiculous). The people in the neighborhoods around me shoot guns all the time. I legally can't do anything about it because they do it more than 500' away from my house.

[idnib]

All the other goods reasons aside, I wouldn't sell the property to him because he's a total jerk.

[Myra]

Quote " I would be lying if I said I wasn't foaming at the mouth to go back to the police, now that I have exactly what they want/need to serve him with an official trespassing violation. But I still have to live nearby. Maybe I am overly paranoid--actually, I know I can be--but I worry about them being angry and taking it out on my animals or something. However, I'm not inclined to let it rest in the name of neighborly good graces. I fully intend to confront him, though I will be calm and respectful."

 

 

I would still take a copy of the letter and your response to the police to place in your file - you don't need to presecute or even have the police contact your neighbors at all, but it is good "evidence" for them to have on hand in case of future difficulties. The neighbor doesn't have to even know that it's on file at all.

 

I would not confront your neighbor face-to-face at all. Instead, do everything in writing and keep copies. If I was declining their offer, I'd state something to the effect that..... I realize they would like to continue hunt on your land even though it's posted "No trespassing" and "No Hunting" and appreciate the offer to puchase the land, it is not currently for sale. My family uses the land for recreational purposes that hunting on the land would be couterproductive and dangerous.

 

Keep it simple. Polite. Make sure you decline their offer. Make sure you get in about them previously trespassing. Make sure you mention that your family uses the land and it is at cross purposes for any hunting. Be polite. Be respectful. But be firm.

 

 

Just my 2 cents worth!

 

Myra

[BrookValley.]

All the other goods reasons aside, I wouldn't sell the property to him because he's a total jerk.

 

Well, this is certainly my first reason for not wanting to sell him any property! I am *trying* to see my mother's side by focusing on the more tangible reasons for selling/not selling, for the purposes of rational discussion with her (when we get to that point).

 

Quote " I would be lying if I said I wasn't foaming at the mouth to go back to the police, now that I have exactly what they want/need to serve him with an official trespassing violation. But I still have to live nearby. Maybe I am overly paranoid--actually, I know I can be--but I worry about them being angry and taking it out on my animals or something. However, I'm not inclined to let it rest in the name of neighborly good graces. I fully intend to confront him, though I will be calm and respectful."

 

 

I would still take a copy of the letter and your response to the police to place in your file - you don't need to presecute or even have the police contact your neighbors at all, but it is good "evidence" for them to have on hand in case of future difficulties. The neighbor doesn't have to even know that it's on file at all.

 

I would not confront your neighbor face-to-face at all. Instead, do everything in writing and keep copies. If I was declining their offer, I'd state something to the effect that..... I realize they would like to continue hunt on your land even though it's posted "No trespassing" and "No Hunting" and appreciate the offer to puchase the land, it is not currently for sale. My family uses the land for recreational purposes that hunting on the land would be couterproductive and dangerous.

 

Keep it simple. Polite. Make sure you decline their offer. Make sure you get in about them previously trespassing. Make sure you mention that your family uses the land and it is at cross purposes for any hunting. Be polite. Be respectful. But be firm.

 

 

Just my 2 cents worth!

 

Myra

 

Thanks. That's my plan--polite but firm. I don't believe in letting people off the hook for doing things that are just plain wrong, that's for sure.

[jelbe5]

Sorry you are dealing with this entire situation.

 

This is just my humble opinion. I would like to suggest you not contact the trespasser directly, but you have an attorney contact him, in writing, outlining that you don't want to sell, etc. I just think a letter from a lawyer will (hopefully) demonstrate you mean business and the issue will be closed.

 

Ugh. Why is it so hard for people to respect others?

[happi duck]

If your mom does find out what he's offering to pay maybe you could pay your mom half of that amount and then she'd get the same amount of money she would from the sale and now you'd own more than 50 percent which would put you in control in the future.

 

Hope that makes sense!

 

Hope everything works out and you're able to safely enjoy your property!

[Halftime Hope]

if your mom has the letter and is calling him, and you tell him no, he will get mixed signals. Someone else mentioned a letter from a lawyer. That seems wise to me. Especially if you want to address the poaching in your letter as well.

[BrookValley.]

I updated my original post, but it turns out that the guy who wrote the letter is not, in fact, the guy who was illegally hunting. So, that part is still a mystery...but in the meantime, we feel a lot better about one of the neighbors located fairly close to us!

[Giraffe]

Since the hunting stands are on your property, can't you just tear them down and post "no hunting/trespassing" signs?

 

I'm glad ATV guy was not the poacher and it was "just" a misunderstanding!

[BrookValley.]

Since the hunting stands are on your property, can't you just tear them down and post "no hunting/trespassing" signs?

 

I'm glad ATV guy was not the poacher and it was "just" a misunderstanding!

 

Thanks. :) Yes, we did remove the stuff, and that is exactly what the police told us to do, too. The whole area was posted with no hunting and no trespassing signs; they mysteriously disappeared (coincidentally, you can't be prosecuted for a first offense if the property is not well-posted). We did spend quite a bit of time recently re-posting. My worry is that the person will try another area of the property, do damage to the property or animals, or otherwise cause trouble out of retaliation for losing their stuff. Also, I am sure that the person who belongs to the stuff I found is not the only one who has (or will) trespass and/or trespass to hunt ilegally.

[unsinkable]

Well, well, well. The plot thickens.

 

It's up to you, Nancy Drew, to find the creator of the deer stand, then, right?

[Giraffe]

 

 

Thanks. :) Yes, we did remove the stuff, and that is exactly what the police told us to do, too. The whole area was posted with no hunting and no trespassing signs; they mysteriously disappeared (coincidentally, you can't be prosecuted for a first offense if the property is not well-posted). We did spend quite a bit of time recently re-posting. My worry is that the person will try another area of the property, do damage to the property or animals, or otherwise cause trouble out of retaliation for losing their stuff. Also, I am sure that the person who belongs to the stuff I found is not the only one who has (or will) trespass and/or trespass to hunt ilegally.

 

:banghead: hadn't thought of all that.

[Ottakee]

Not knowing your exact set up with the land, etc. would you be OK with the ATV guy riding around on your property some? If he is a good neighbor and rides respectfully he just might see the damage/blinds, etc. before you would.................and it would keep him very happy.

 

We have permission to ride our horses/quad on the trail through the neighbor's property and in exchange we have their daughter over to ride horses a few times a year.

 

You might have a good reason for not wanting him to drive the ATV on your land but if not, it just might make for a wonderful neighbor relationship.

[BrookValley.]

Well, well, well. The plot thickens. It's up to you, Nancy Drew, to find the creator of the deer stand, then, right?

 

Hahaha. I am so not feeling the Nancy Drew vibe these days (I'm getting into that third-trimester "super pregnant" phase).

 

Not knowing your exact set up with the land, etc. would you be OK with the ATV guy riding around on your property some? If he is a good neighbor and rides respectfully he just might see the damage/blinds, etc. before you would.................and it would keep him very happy. We have permission to ride our horses/quad on the trail through the neighbor's property and in exchange we have their daughter over to ride horses a few times a year. You might have a good reason for not wanting him to drive the ATV on your land but if not, it just might make for a wonderful neighbor relationship.

 

Great minds think alike. :) We have actually discussed this, thinking the very same thing. I am ok with a limited amount of ATV use on the property--I just don't want the trails torn up or wildlife being seriously affected--so we're actually having this very same conversation with our neighbor. We actually have an ATV, too, but it has been out of commission for the past year or so. DH has been working on getting it running again so we have a quick way to patrol the property again. We have also asked family members (avid hunters and outdoorsmen--one of which is a police officer) to go ahead an use part of our land for a little bit of hunting. All are willing to keep an eye on things, post signs, clear trails, etc. to help us better manage the property and keep an eye on things. I definitely think it could be the start of a good neighborly relationship, and that makes me feel a lot better. I have been feeling pretty stomped on by rude folks in the area lately, so this is a good development!

[Parrothead]

Have you thought about putting the hunting paraphernalia out front of the house with a for sale sign on it? Maybe the owner will pay to get it back. Again, and again? Lol

[elfgivas]

 

Thanks. :) Yes, we did remove the stuff, and that is exactly what the police told us to do, too. The whole area was posted with no hunting and no trespassing signs; they mysteriously disappeared (coincidentally, you can't be prosecuted for a first offense if the property is not well-posted). We did spend quite a bit of time recently re-posting. My worry is that the person will try another area of the property, do damage to the property or animals, or otherwise cause trouble out of retaliation for losing their stuff. Also, I am sure that the person who belongs to the stuff I found is not the only one who has (or will) trespass and/or trespass to hunt ilegally.

 

this has been our experience. people use wire cutters on our fence, tear down the signs and throw them in the underbrush, and just proceed on in. then when we confront them, they didn't see any signs, dontcha know. sigh..... we walk the fence line once a month optimally, but usually its once a season, and rehang signs and repair the fence. these are not hunters, they are ATV riders, and occasionally (one every few years) horseback riders. and this year its been teen age boys "hiking", at least once a month. and they did mess with our chickens and throw chairs into bodies of water, tore up drip line, etc, etc. it just makes me nuts.

 

no solutions, just commiseration.

ann