Young adults/older child and your income...

[Scarlett]

Who said it was required? But when a parent prevents it simply by denying financial INFORMATION, then yes, they are a rotten person and they screwing with their child's life for no reason.

 

This has nothing to do with whatever advice you give your son.

 

 

 

Hmm.....maybe my logic is flawed but I thought it was relevant..shrug.

 

I don't believe 'top universities' are necessary and in fact I believe they are elitist. Kids can go to college and work full time....but even if they choose an inexpensive school they may not can afford it.

 

I do think it is inexplicable that a parent would withhold INFORMATION that could help their kids have an easier time of things....but I don't think it makes them slimeballs or whatever other very harsh term was used.

[Murphy101]

Actually Scarlett, I suspect you completely agree with me. ;)

 

I have not said I am refusing to help my kids get assistance if they need it. Both my oldest two already have a decent amount of college credit as it is.

 

The question from the OP was why would a parent not share income info with a grown adult child. All I have done is simply try to explain why that is, not that I necessarily agree with those parents. I don't think they are awful at all tho either. At least not for that.

 

Jane, I'm not saying it's not up for discussion. Sure. Talk away about why and how parents might or might not contribute to a grown child's education.

 

What I meant was I don't think whether an adult student accepts $100 from grandma for school books is anyone's business, including the school.

[Melissa in Australia]

Please get over yourself and give her the information for the forms. Please do not be like that. My dad did not go to college because his father didn't want to give out that information. Luckily my parents did and I went to college and graduated. If you don't, your child cannot get aid at this point in time.

:iagree:

 

Allowing my income information on my son's university application allowed him to get 2 scholarships for coming form a low income background, plus he was able to get a federal government stipend that allows him to live (buy food and accommodation).

[Jane in NC]

I don't believe 'top universities' are necessary and in fact I believe they are elitist. Kids can go to college and work full time....but even if they choose an inexpensive school they may not can afford it.

 

I have taught in three corporate/college partnership programs geared toward older adults without degrees. The lesson that every single "non traditional" student wanted their kid to recognize from their struggles was how difficult it was to work full time and go to school.

 

I was fortunate to have a job that paid much more than minimal wage when I was an undergrad. But after my experience of living on five hours of sleep nightly for years in order to manage classes, studies and my job, I vowed not to subject any future children to this. It did not make me a better human being. It only made me a tired one!!

 

We have had many, many discussions through the years on the importance of college. Repeatedly we see that family culture plays so much into this.

[Scarlett]

I have taught in three corporate/college partnership programs geared toward older adults without degrees. The lesson that every single "non traditional" student wanted their kid to recognize from their struggles was how difficult it was to work full time and go to school.

 

I was fortunate to have a job that paid much more than minimal wage when I was an undergrad. But after my experience of living on five hours of sleep nightly for years in order to manage classes, studies and my job, I vowed not to subject any future children to this. It did not make me a better human being. It only made me a tired one!!

 

We have had many, many discussions through the years on the importance of college. Repeatedly we see that family culture plays so much into this.

 

I agree. I hope I am in a position to help my son. I think I will at least be able to provide room/board and some sort of transportation....as well as keep him on medical. And CERTAINLY provide him with information to see if he qualifies for aid of any kind.

[SKL]

An old family friend vowed not to help her kids go to college at all, whether she had the means or not. Her kids did not go to college - not even the genius son.

 

However, this woman was my mom's lifelong best friend and was not by any stretch a mean person. She did many things for her kids. Her daughter told me many times that her mom was her best friend. She just didn't believe college was necessary.

 

My mom disagreed. But they were still best friends to the death.

[SKL]

Factory work pays a living wage, at least after you've got some time under your belt. Same for construction work.

 

My brother is a computer do-it-all-er, and he doesn't have a bachelor's degree. I'm not even sure he has an associate's degree. He is very intelligent, just went on a weird life path after his girlfriend dumped him around age 20.

[Scarlett]

I just wonder, what kind of jobs are out there that don't require some sort of education past high school? And that pay something a person can live on? And don't involve that someone happens to be born into a family business. I honestly can't think of too many things. Well, in fact, I can't think of anything. My job out of high school was working in a fast food restaurant because I could walk there and the hours were flexible. During the summer I also worked some hours at a factory because my dad happened to work there. Both jobs paid minimum wage. I could not count on full time hours at the fast food joint. At one point I also added a job working in a clothing store. Again, minimum wage, with unpredictable hours. All this while trying to go to school. I could not have lived on the amount of money I made. I could not have even afforded rent somewhere. My first job out of college paid three times as much per hour as my fast food job plus benefits.

 

 

I honestly don't know. Eventually a person can work their way up some even without a degree....but I do believe to make a living wage one needs some sort of training.

[SKL]

Most Americans don't have a college degree. So surely there are jobs out there that don't require college and still pay a living wage.

 

. . . . oh yeah, military . . . .

[Scarlett]

I haven't worked in 13 years. My good friend still works at the same place but she is married....I think she could probably support herself on her wage if she had to. Neither of us have college degrees. It was office work for a furniture manufacturer. I loved my job and I was very good at it....

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Most Americans don't have a college degree. So surely there are jobs out there that don't require college and still pay a living wage.

 

. . . . oh yeah, military . . . .

 

 

 

They are out there, but are often rare and usually don't go to 18-year olds.

[mom2scouts]

Why would you care if your child knows about your finances? What's the big secret? Is that why so many young adults I've met are totally clueless about money? Our children have always known about our financial situation and how much things cost because they need to know why they can't get what they want or what all their friends have. Even my 6 year old knows that daddy lost his job and we need to be more careful about our spending! Fill out the form and let your child see it because your numbers will give her an idea of if/how much financial aid will be available.

 

This probably doesn't apply to the op, but in my experience it's usually people who have money who are the ones who don't talk to their kids about finances. Kids in families who struggle often learn from a young age about the family budget.

[Scarlett]

Thinking of my circle of friends.....very few have college degrees. One has a BA and works 3rd shift in a factory....never used his degree. My best friend's dh is self taught engineer....owned his own company and sold it for a ton of money and retired at age 53.

 

It can be done...but it is harder.

[Jane in NC]

Most Americans don't have a college degree. So surely there are jobs out there that don't require college and still pay a living wage.

 

. . . . oh yeah, military . . . .

 

The three corporate/college partnership programs in which I worked were created so that employees without degrees could be considered for promotion. At the time, employees without degrees would hit walls. Now, they are not even hired...

 

But I am talking about corporate jobs. Small businesses will do things very differently.

[BarbecueMom]

I am about 99% sure that I when I filled out my FAFSA, I dug out the tax information, filled out the parent portion myself, and just had my mom sign it. I've been preparing her taxes since about 8th or 9th grade, anyway.

 

I wonder if single parents are typically more open with this financial information with their older children than married parents, because they don't have another adult in the house to discuss finances with.

 

ETA: As I was typing this, my mom called me to ask if it would be okay to pay her rent now or wait until her next paycheck. Maybe she needs a separate financial advisor. Or an eHarmony account.

[Arcadia]

I just wonder, what kind of jobs are out there that don't require some sort of education past high school? And that pay something a person can live on?

 

I earned more than $1.5k per month or more giving tution at a time when my school/tution fees were less than $6k per year and dorm rent was $400 per month. My university's computer center also pays higher than a living wage for undergrads working there as student assistant.

My parents paid for my school fees in cash but I could have afford to pay them back and still have money left over for savings.

[Murphy101]

Since only 57% of full time students manage to get a degree in SIX years, I imagine students who don't go to college are doing the same jobs as the 43% who don't finish college. Only without the student loans.

 

It's not like having a college degree guarantees a job.

[Scarlett]

I am about 99% sure that I when I filled out my FAFSA, I dug out the tax information, filled out the parent portion myself, and just had my mom sign it. I've been preparing her taxes since about 8th or 9th grade, anyway.

 

I wonder if single parents are typically more open with this financial information with their older children than married parents, because they don't have another adult in the house to discuss finances with.

 

ETA: As I was typing this, my mom called me to ask if it would be okay to pay her rent now or wait until her next paycheck. Maybe she needs a separate financial advisor. Or an eHarmony account.

 

 

 

:smilielol5:

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Since only 57% of full time students manage to get a degree in SIX years, I imagine students who don't go to college are doing the same jobs as the 43% who don't finish college. Only without the student loans.

 

It's not like having a college degree guarantees a job.

 

Not always. Some college usually opens up more doors than no college.

Not every student has a massive amount of student loans.

 

No one ever said going to college guarantees a job. However, on average someone with a college education will earn more than someone with a high school diploma.

 

http://www.ohe.state.mn.us/tPg.cfm?pageID=948

[Tokyomarie]

Who said it was required? But when a parent prevents it simply by denying financial INFORMATION, then yes, they are a rotten person and they screwing with their child's life for no reason.

 

This has nothing to do with whatever advice you give your son.

 

ChocolateReign, this kind of rhetoric is extremely harsh and unwarranted. If you think failing to fill out a FAFSA is "screwing with their child's life" you have no idea what it's like for children who are truly being failed by their parents. I'm talking about children who are truly neglected and abused.

 

If you believe this, you are telling me that my dad is the worst person in the world. Yes, I did not like my dad's actions at the time (when he refused to fill out the financial aid forms and didn't pay my tuition), but you know what? My parents raised their four children to be people of good character. They taught us to be resourceful. They taught us that those who are faithful with the little they are given will be trusted and found faithful with more.

 

All four of us, who paid our own tuition and didn't have financial aid forms filled out, graduated from college. One has a master's degree, another is working on one now. Amongst us, there is a physical therapist, an engineer, a critical care nurse, and one in international business. All four of us have been married for many years to our first spouses, all of whom have been very successful in their work.

 

We have had a strong relationship with our parents through the years and are a close-knit family. I hardly think our lives have been screwed up because of how my father handled his financial information when we were in college.

[Arcadia]

Doing what though? And those school jobs were far and few between. I was once offered a job as a research assistant. The pay was $10 an hour. With very few hours . I would have loved to have done it, but I couldn't afford the gas to get there.

 

 

I was staying in the dorm (university hostel) so I could walk to work. It was a 15 mins walk for me. There was a variety of jobs at the computer center. I could man the printing booth and do my schoolwork at the same time. For that I just needed to count and collect money from students for printouts. I could also teach computer software and be paid a slightly higher hourly rate. I could also upgrade the operating system of the computers in the student computer labs and be paid for that too by the hour.

 

ETA: For tuition, I was giving math and science tuition all the way to high school students. My first degree is engineering.

[Joanne]

Factory work pays a living wage, at least after you've got some time under your belt. Same for construction work.

 

My brother is a computer do-it-all-er, and he doesn't have a bachelor's degree. I'm not even sure he has an associate's degree. He is very intelligent, just went on a weird life path after his girlfriend dumped him around age 20.

 

 

Computer, IT, and tech jobs typically require degrees AND certifications.

 

Starting your own business in the field is usually not successful without having worked for a company, made contacts, etc.

[Mrs Mungo]

Since only 57% of full time students manage to get a degree in SIX years, I imagine students who don't go to college are doing the same jobs as the 43% who don't finish college. Only without the student loans.

 

It's not like having a college degree guarantees a job.

 

 

Financial aid doesn't necessarily mean loans. It also applies to scholarships, grants and work study programs. Working full time makes it *much* more difficult to finish, which is a large part of the reason people I knew at the time didn't finish-they didn't have the money to continue.

 

To whomever mentioned the military:

Many of the decent military jobs also require college degrees. A college degree is required to get promoted beyond a certain rank. Advanced degrees are even required after a certain point.

[Joanne]

 

Not always. Some college usually opens up more doors than no college.

Not every student has a massive amount of student loans.

 

No one ever said going to college guarantees a job. However, on average someone with a college education will earn more than someone with a high school diploma.

 

http://www.ohe.state....cfm?pageID=948

 

 

 

In my job, I see a clear correlation between level of education and life success.

 

I see it everyday.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

 

 

ChocolateReign, this kind of rhetoric is extremely harsh and unwarranted. If you think failing to fill out a FAFSA is "screwing with their child's life" you have no idea what it's like for children who are truly being failed by their parents. I'm talking about children who are truly neglected and abused.

 

If you believe this, you are telling me that my dad is the worst person in the world. Yes, I did not like my dad's actions at the time (when he refused to fill out the financial aid forms and didn't pay my tuition), but you know what? My parents raised their four children to be people of good character. They taught us to be resourceful. They taught us that those who are faithful with the little they are given will be trusted and found faithful with more.

 

All four of us, who paid our own tuition and didn't have financial aid forms filled out, graduated from college. One has a master's degree, another is working on one now. Amongst us, there is a physical therapist, an engineer, a critical care nurse, and one in international business. All four of us have been married for many years to our first spouses, all of whom have been very successful in their work.

 

We have had a strong relationship with our parents through the years and are a close-knit family. I hardly think our lives have been screwed up because of how my father handled his financial information when we were in college.

 

 

Good for you.

And yes, I do have a low opinion of any parent who did what your father did. My father raised 3 kids who have all become successful and self reliant, yet he filled out the FAFSA.

[Reya]

Husbands used to hide their income from their wives, too, and give them an allowance for the house.

 

Doesn't mean it makes sense.

[Murphy101]

How are you defining life success?

[Arcadia]

*sigh*, but really now, why am I getting worked up over this?

 

:grouphug: Its probably emotional baggage.

[readwithem]

 

 

We have had many, many discussions through the years on the importance of college. Repeatedly we see that family culture plays so much into this.

 

Indeed - and it bears repeating... in fact it would be worth cross stitching it and hanging it on the wall....

[Prudent]

The whole point of the student loan program is to get rid of some of the barriers to entry that would otherwise ensure that only spoiled rich kids get a competitive education. I am not a socialist by any stretch, but I think that's a reasonable goal.

 

You may not be a socialist, but you certainly are judgmental.

 

We have the means to send our children to any college they choose. My husband and me having money does not make them spoiled.

[Mrs Mungo]

*sigh*, but really now, why am I getting worked up over this? I will never do this to my kids. I will do everything in my power to make sure they have an easier time than me if they decide to go to college.

 

 

I agree. It was extremely hard. Working as much as I did meant that I *literally* did not have time for some things that were expected like attending extra language labs and such. It often affected my grades and ability to do well. There is no way that it wouldn't. It is *the* reason many people I knew eventually dropped out. And I lived with my parents, I was only paying for school, gas, books, etc, not living expenses.

[Tokyomarie]

 

But how did you do it? Did you have some other sort of help? How did you manage to get transportation? Cars aren't cheap. Gas isn't cheap. I just wonder how people do it.

 

Well, to say that my dad didn't pay my tuition or fill out the financial aid form isn't to say that my parents didn't help me at all.

 

I was allowed to live at home rent-free as long as I was in school. I did so for the first two years.

 

Transportation was a pain- which I can laugh about now. In fact, we were reminiscing on Thanksgiving about these things and I was recalling how Dad intitially thought I could just take the public bus in to the university. What he didn't take into account is that we lived in a suburb, and to get to an 8am class required me to first take the bus into the city, and wait at a stop in the red light district at 6:30am, in order to catch a bus going out to the U. When he realized that, we found other options, which meant that sometimes he got up early and dropped me off at campus before going to work. Other times, I caught a ride with a friend or could ride a later bus with a more favorable route. My grandmother lived within walking distance of campus and I could stay with her some nights. Occasionally, the car was available for me to use. Sometimes my mom had to take me to work or pick me up- I worked 2nd shift at a hospital. Dad did continue to pay my car insurance so I could drive when the car was available.

 

Other "help": a one year non-renewable full-tuition scholarship for my freshman year, 20-24 hours of work during school terms and full-time summer employment at a hospital, and a living arrangement for senior year that provided room and partial board in exchange for about 10-12 hours/week as a personal care attendant for a quadriplegic. Ultimately, my dad did buy a car for my use during the last part of my college years. When I moved off campus to live with the quadriplegic woman, I needed a car of my own. Dad bought a "clunker" car for real cheap and paid insurance, while I paid for gas and minor maintenance.

 

I started college just before the massive tuition hikes started. I got caught my senior year because my money didn't stretch as far as expected when there was a major hike in tuition. These hikes made it more difficult for my siblings to completely finance their education themselves. In the end, my grandfather helped at least one or two of them with zero interest loans to help them get through to the end. I think Dad might have helped the younger two with some tuition assistance. But merit aid and employment were the primary sources of tuition money.

 

I readily acknowledge that what I did is much harder to accomplish now, yet for a student who hasn't many other options, community college followed by the local 4 yr. university, combined with the kind of "assistance" that my parents did give, can make college possible.

 

We are able and chose to give a lot more assistance to our daughters than I received. I think it is a better situation when students do not have to struggle so much to figure out how the money will come in, though I do think it's best for most students to contribute financially in some way. My main issue is with calling a parent who does as my dad did all kinds of horrible names.

[QueenCat]

 

Other "help": a one year non-renewable full-tuition scholarship for my freshman year,

 

That scholarship, at my son's school, even if it was purely academic, would require filling out the FAFSA. At his school, they do not send your application over to the scholarship department until ALL paperwork has been submitted, which includes the FAFSA.

[Annie G]

 

That scholarship, at my son's school, even if it was purely academic, would require filling out the FAFSA. At his school, they do not send your application over to the scholarship department until ALL paperwork has been submitted, which includes the FAFSA.

 

 

That's how it is at the school our two youngest attend. Even the scholarships that are not need based still require the FAFSA to be on file before the scholarship applications can be considered.

 

What I think bothers some parents is that the FAFSA comes back and says the parent contribution is (for instance) $15,000 for the year and the kid then wonders why Mom and Dad can't/won't pay $15,000 for the upcoming year. Just because the FAFSA says this is your expected contribution doesn't mean you can actually swing that amount. And many parents I know have been left paying the student loans they had to cosign for so their kids could bridge the gap between aid/scholarship/parent contribution. Yeah, some of those kids were deadbeats but others couldn't afford the payments when they came due.

 

It's a complicated issue!

[Tokyomarie]

It's a complicated issue!

 

Complicated, for sure.

 

As I said upthread, some schools require the FAFSA even for merit-only aid, while others do not. One daughter's merit aid was awarded prior to the school seeing the FAFSA. It was awarded on the basis of her National Merit status. However, they did require the FAFSA to be submitted freshman year, which we filed after the award was made. When the determination came back that the only need-based aid my daughter would be eligible for was an 8.5% Parent Plus loan, we said, "OK, did this once, don't need to do it again."

 

Our other daughter attended two different schools, with merit aid, and we were not required to submit a FAFSA for either one.

 

If these issues are important to parents, they need to look hard at the financial aid fine print to see what will be required of them.

[SKL]

I agree. It was extremely hard. Working as much as I did meant that I *literally* did not have time for some things that were expected like attending extra language labs and such. It often affected my grades and ability to do well. There is no way that it wouldn't. It is *the* reason many people I knew eventually dropped out. And I lived with my parents, I was only paying for school, gas, books, etc, not living expenses.

 

When I was in college, I always worked - sometimes part time, sometimes full time. Oddly enough, I got my highest GPA the semester when I took 20 credits and worked 60 hours (at 2 jobs) per week. Conversely, I tended to be a poorer student when I had a lighter total work/school load.

 

Obviously everyone is different, but I wouldn't automatically assume that working takes away from schooling. Aside from keeping the person at a nice busy pace, it provides experience / street smarts that feed into academics. And it doesn't have to be a professional internship. I recall aceing Operations Management (in my MBA program) because I could relate everything to the factory job I'd had.

 

I'd encourage everyone to try working at least part-time while going to school, and see how it goes. One can always quit one or the other if it doesn't work out.

[SKL]

You may not be a socialist, but you certainly are judgmental.

 

We have the means to send our children to any college they choose. My husband and me having money does not make them spoiled.

 

LOL. It's just an expression. My kids are most certainly spoiled rotten and they had a decent college fund before they were born. The fact that they don't have to worry about whether they can afford college is definitely privilege. It certainly gives them an outlook unlike most kids. No point denying it.

[SKL]

 

Computer, IT, and tech jobs typically require degrees AND certifications.

 

Starting your own business in the field is usually not successful without having worked for a company, made contacts, etc.

 

 

Well sure, my brother had to develop contacts and build a reputation just like everyone else, with or without a degree.

 

I know my brother has gotten certifications without having a bachelor's degree. I don't know the details. Maybe it's like how I got my CPA despite hardly having taken any accounting courses. There are usually alternative ways to do stuff for non-traditional students/careers. All I know is that my brother has never worked in anything other than computers. His first grown-up job was in the military overseas, programing stealth aircraft or some such. They recruited him with 1.5 years of college, promising that he'd have the opportunity to finish his degree, which he never did. He was a staff seargent. After that he worked for a bank and then a CPA firm. For some people, at least, demonstrated ability trumps the diploma. That said, he would probably make more money if he had the piece of paper. But he supports his family.

[SKL]

 

I worked in a factory. I did not earn a living wage. Given I was not physically capable of doing some of the jobs there that was part of it. The higher paying jobs required skills and abilities I didn't have. Same with construction. Not too many construction companies would be interested in a 5ft tall female weakling.

 

 

When I was 20, I made $11-$12/hr in an injection molding factory. That was in 1986, so that was most definitely a living wage and then some. That was just a little above the average for a starting factory worker at a mid-sized company. Fast forward to about 2002, and I recall a guy who was striking his automotive factory job despite making $70K per year (not including benefits). That said, I've certainly seen low-paying factory jobs as well.

[Runningmom80]

It took me 7 years to get a BA because my Dad wouldn't give me his info. I could afford community college on my own (barely) and then i I went part time sometimes only taking one class a semester, or none if my car broke down and I had no money, until I could fill out my fafsa without his info.

 

 

He eventually offered it to me when I was a year away from not needing it. I told him to forget it, I'd do it all myself.

 

I would never ever do that to my kids. And I have to admit, I'd think very lowly of someone who did.

[Jane in NC]

Well factory jobs were on their way to becoming a dying breed when I worked there. That was in the 90s. I worked in 2 different factories. One made screw machine parts. The other aerospace. Both jobs paid horribly. And they were horrible jobs.

 

The better paying job I had at the factories paid $7.50. That was more than the $4.25 I made at the fast food place, but still not a living wage.

Wendy, your posts on working while a student remind me of something. Several of my former students at an engineering college had jobs at UPS. They worked the graveyard shift, moving packages from here to there. I always knew who these guys were because they took advantage of every opportunity to nap--a few minutes before class or a ten minute break.

 

Apparently these jobs paid well but I always wondered how much health or grades suffered from sleep deprivation. Still, I admired their work ethic.

 

Back in my day, students often took a semester off to work light manufacturing for Manpower or another temp agency. Or students could earn sufficient funds in the summer to carry them over for a while, something that is certainly no longer true.

 

One of the bees in my bonnet is the whole internship thing that has evolved for non-degree bearing students or freshly minted ones. Those entry level positions used to go to bright high school grads, students with a bit of college under their belt or recent college grads. They had small salaries but benefits. Now, companies expect students to work a semester or year for free yet somehow pay for their rent and food.

 

Boy, am I derailing this thread...

[SKL]

UPS paid well compared to other places, but it required one to be able to lift 80 pounds. I couldn't lift 80 pounds so that option was out for me.

 

 

I did some babysitting/nannying as an undergrad student. One summer (age 18) I was a "carney." At 19 I opened a used-book store. My "good" factory job came when I was 19 or 20. In grad school I worked for a prof and got a couple of summer internships (office jobs). I tried the grocery store and a nursing home for very short stints. I also did a lot of volunteer work which was somewhat resume-worthy for my then-intended field.

 

I should probably mention that I lived in the Boone-docks and there was a bad recession going on. Unemployment was very high and I didn't have my own car nor access to public transportation. So I had to take what I could get, when I could get it. It wasn't enough to support me and pay for school, but it was a help. (ETA: I also had a lot of "chores" since I lived with my parents. They had a big house and 6 kids, including two who were much younger than I - youngest was 4 when I started college. I kept house and basically raised the two youngest while pursuing school and working when I could.)

 

My kid sister always had a job throughout school. She worked in accounting for a manufacturer (age 18), did office/marketing work for an arts center, and then worked in internal audit for a large corporation. She was able to support herself in her own apartment around age 20. She was a pretty good student, too.

[Murphy101]

When I was in college, I always worked - sometimes part time, sometimes full time. Oddly enough, I got my highest GPA the semester when I took 20 credits and worked 60 hours (at 2 jobs) per week. Conversely, I tended to be a poorer student when I had a lighter total work/school load.

Obviously everyone is different, but I wouldn't automatically assume that working takes away from schooling. Aside from keeping the person at a nice busy pace, it provides experience / street smarts that feed into academics. And it doesn't have to be a professional internship. I recall aceing Operations Management (in my MBA program) because I could relate everything to the factory job I'd had.

I'd encourage everyone to try working at least part-time while going to school, and see how it goes. One can always quit one or the other if it doesn't work out.

 

 

This was me. It is all I knew. Even in high school I worked full time and oddly enough, my grades went UP during that time. I would get up at 6am to catch the school bus (no license, much less a car!) go to school, catch the bus home at 3:30, walk a mile to work and change into my uniform (fast food or grocery store minimum wage), clock in at 4:00 and work until 2:00am and walk home. Repeat 4-6 days a week. I also met my future husband and got engaged during that time. So when someone says it's just too hard for an adult to work and attend school, I have a really difficult time mustering sympathy for that.

 

When we got married and started having kids, it was the same thing, only we were working different jobs opposite shifts to avoid daycare. We did that until just before the second baby was born.

 

I don't think either of us made over $8-9 an hour until after our 4th baby was born. That was in the mid90s and it was certainly a struggle, but we were able to do okay if we were frugal and worked hard.

 

I think the dynamic where schools expect students to do nothing but attend is going to die. It's too elitist an expectation when the majority of students come from families where both parents have to work and still are struggling to make ends meet. If the schools want to survive, they are going to have to meet the need of their students or see their enrollment sharply decline.

 

 

[Murphy101]

I don't think that is derailing at all Jane.

 

It points to a huge problem in the education system when you work your bum off for 4-6 years to get.. A job that pays nothing? what the heck. That's nuts.

[Joanne]

When I was in college, I always worked - sometimes part time, sometimes full time. Oddly enough, I got my highest GPA the semester when I took 20 credits and worked 60 hours (at 2 jobs) per week. Conversely, I tended to be a poorer student when I had a lighter total work/school load.

 

Obviously everyone is different, but I wouldn't automatically assume that working takes away from schooling. Aside from keeping the person at a nice busy pace, it provides experience / street smarts that feed into academics. And it doesn't have to be a professional internship. I recall aceing Operations Management (in my MBA program) because I could relate everything to the factory job I'd had.

 

I'd encourage everyone to try working at least part-time while going to school, and see how it goes. One can always quit one or the other if it doesn't work out.

 

 

My parents did not pay anything towards my undergraduate degrees. I went with a combintation of loans, scholarships, work-study and working off campus. I ended up going to a small, private school. Working off campus was UNHEARD of. No one, except for me, did.

 

I earned 2 full (4 year) degrees in 4 years total. With Honors. Cum Laude. Working my *ss off in multiple roles is my life pattern (did the same type of thing in high school, too, and am doing it now). It limits my ability to have empathy/understanding. I get fairly judgmental about it. Even here, threads such as "how do you homeschool and keep the house clean" make me twitchy.

 

All that said, I've probably missed major moments with my kids. I should have created both a therapy and college fund for each of them. I've probably shaved 20 years off my life. If I could help my kids to not "have" to juggle multiple roles - any one of which is a valid full time endeavor - I will.

 

My fear in the next few years is that my income *finally* looks decent/adequate. I'm afraid the FAFSA won't tell enough of the story (major legal debt, major medical debt, inability to save for college.......) and that will hurt my kids.

[Mrs Mungo]

 

 

This was me. It is all I knew. Even in high school I worked full time and oddly enough, my grades went UP during that time. I would get up at 6am to catch the school bus (no license, much less a car!) go to school, catch the bus home at 3:30, walk a mile to work and change into my uniform (fast food or grocery store minimum wage), clock in at 4:00 and work until 2:00am and walk home. Repeat 4-6 days a week. I also met my future husband and got engaged during that time. So when someone says it's just too hard for an adult to work and attend school, I have a really difficult time mustering sympathy for that.

 

 

Nobody here has given you a full picture of their lives. Balancing everything I had on my plate at the time was too much. I didn't ask for sympathy, but you really don't know anything about my individual situation, and I have no interest in painting a full picture for your benefit. It was hard enough that I fully intend to help our kids as much as we can.

 

I do hold resentment toward my parents for refusing to help. I do think less of people who refuse to fill out a simple paper.

[Lisa R.]

I think parents should cooperate and fill out the FAFSA. When we filled this out, I believe we sent it off directly, and the kids didn't see it.

 

As far as sharing income, I understand why some parents would be uncomfortable to do this. Particularly if the household income is higher, kids can easily misunderstand why more money isn't directed their way. When a young person sees a nice income, they could get the idea that the money goes farther than it does. Also, it's hard for someone that doesn't earn much money to see how much money it takes just to maintain a decent standard of living each month--house maintenance, insurance, health costs, food, and on and on. A nice income also allows for eating out, vacations, investing, etc. When you have a nice income but also want your child to contribute to the total cost in order to give them some responsibility or ownership of their education, I'd advise in keeping the household income private. Yes, there could be enough to pay for the whole college bill. Just because a parent can pay the whole bill, doesn't mean they feel it is in the best interest of their child to do so.

[Murphy101]

Of course we don't have each other's complete picture and detailed history. No one claimed they did.

 

The general premise of some seems to be that it's ridiculous to downright dastardly to expect an adult to work and attend school.

 

The only thing SKL, Joanne, myself and a couple others are putting forth is the simple notion that maybe it is not all that awful and traumatic. None of us are saying parents are bad if their kids don't have to. In fact, I think most of us agree we hope our kids don't have to struggle quite as hard as we have done.

 

But the idea of harboring resentment of what can't be changed, turned out fine in the end, and that an adult had no rights to to begin with seems out of proportion to me. Maybe it's just not in my nature anymore. As a teen I had plenty of anger over how unfair it felt that all the debutantes had such a different life and no comprehension that people like me even existed around them. I had plenty of frustration with how my parents didn't care and the schools not caring either. But now? Meh. Looking back, I see many blessings in those years that I wish I had appreciated at the time. I find myself oddly frustrated that I can't pass on some of those blessing of life experience to my kids.

[Murphy101]

Nobody said there was something dastardly to expect an adult to work and attend school. NOBODY.

 

 

The entire premise for why it's awful of a parent to not supply income info is that the result is their adult child will have too much of a hardship working to attend school.

[Mrs Mungo]

The general premise of some seems to be that it's ridiculous to downright dastardly to expect an adult to work and attend school.

 

If that's what you think, then you are misunderstanding what people are saying. What people are saying is that fully funding a college education is *extremely* difficult. It was 20 years ago, and it's is WAY more difficult today.

 

When I was in college I made minimum wage, which was $4.25/hour. My in state tuition per year was around $2000 (if you average the four years) and books were around $500/year. Now? Minimum wage *now* is $7.25/hour. The same state university's in state tuition for a year? Is $8,705 and books are estimated at $1,200. So, college costs have increased *five-fold* while minimum wage hasn't even doubled.

 

I think it's good for people to work, at least part-time, while in school. But, it's now almost impossible to fully fund a university education with a minimum wage job (or even two). The least parents can do is fill out the FAFSA so that the kids can get some help.

 

But the idea of harboring resentment of what can't be changed, turned out fine in the end, and that an adult had no rights to to begin with seems out of proportion to me. Maybe it's just not in my nature anymore. As a teen I had plenty of anger over how unfair it felt that all the debutantes had such a different life and no comprehension that people like me even existed around them.

 

Why should I have had no right to expect my parents to fill out a piece of paper to help me help MYSELF? I find your comparison belittling. I'm not whining because some people have more than others or because my parents refused to foot the bill. I have resentment because they wouldn't fill out a form to help me. Mind you, I was still expected to help them a *lot*. I once missed part of a mid-term because I had to pick one of my younger sisters up sick from school.

 

edited to fix the comps