littlebylittle Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I have a 1st grader and K-er next fall. Yes, I'm reading/planning now. Veritas Press starts History in 2nd or 3rd, I believe with their History cards, which I really like. I also love TOG and am leaning toward that. I'd love to start History lightly with basically reading through some books, doing a few hands on projects TOG has. My slight 'catch' is that I do not know that I will be homeschooling all the way through to the end of 12th grade for all my children.... therefore, I'm hesitant to purchase TOG. I know the premise is you basically purchase Year 1-4 and then you're good to go all the way through. What if I only homeschool through middle school or through fifth grade? I wonder if it is a 'waste' to purchase TOG if I am unsure about continuing all the way through 12th. Hmm. Obviously a personal decision, but what are your thoughts about purchasing TOG with an unknown future if that makes sense versus just doing Veritas Press history cards. I'm focusing on these two primarily {not SOTW, etc}. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 In your situation, I'd go with Veritas. Really both are great programs (I've used both), but Veritas is easier IMHO for someone with two young children who are close in age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebylittle Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 With Veritas, starting when they are in 1st and K should be fine, right? I know it is written for 2nd or 3rd graders in mind, right? Wondering if it's adaptable just a bit? I know "the 3 R's" are the most important so we'd mostly focus on a very relaxed approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama25angels Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 With Veritas, starting when they are in 1st and K should be fine, right? I know it is written for 2nd or 3rd graders in mind, right? Wondering if it's adaptable just a bit? I know "the 3 R's" are the most important so we'd mostly focus on a very relaxed approach. Yes, VP is very adaptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy M Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I would think the best plan is to use VP with some of the most irresistible TOG LG books. TOG seems too much of an investment for lower grammar if you're not going to continue. Many TOGers use mainly SOTW on the lower grammar level, instead of the full program, and I'm finding it difficult to find time to implement much history with extra hands-on projects and literature with those ages myself (using SOTW 1). You might find it too much money for how much you're able to put into it at their ages. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Between those two choices, I'd go with VP. TOG would be very expensive, much more than you need for those ages, and a big waste if you decide not to continue it. Most TOG'ers using it for 1st grade end up using SOTW mostly, and that can be done so much cheaper by itself. I personally loved SOTW1 for 1st grade with my oldest, but I certainly wouldn't have needed the TOG year plans to teach it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebylittle Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 Thanks so much, gang! With regards to VP, the website is SO confusing. What all do I need? It seems like you can go different ways with it, but can you lay it out for me? Thank you! I'd rather not over-purchase if it is unnecessary, but the website is not abundantly clear. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Thanks so much, gang! With regards to VP, the website is SO confusing. What all do I need? It seems like you can go different ways with it, but can you lay it out for me? Thank you! I'd rather not over-purchase if it is unnecessary, but the website is not abundantly clear. ;) I'll take a stab at this. If you are doing the self-paced courses, I think all you need to order is the course. Almost everyone adds the cards. There is a fun teacher's manual that has some extras included, like a large map and worksheets. I may not have this right, but I think the map only comes with the printed TM. There is a TM on disc you could get instead. You can also order the literature package that accompanies the history unit. So, to wrap up: -Order your self-paced course -It's best to add the cards -TM is a great addition, though not necessary for the self-paced course. It's available on disc or in print. -Literature is a fabulous supplement (but I like the lit from TOG much, much better...) Hope this helps...and I hope I'm not wrong. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) On 12/28/2012 at 11:55 AM, littlebylittle said: Edited August 18, 2022 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I wouldn't do self-paced course with kids that young. They are best for 2nd grade and up, and mostly 4th-6th grade IMHO. Basically you need the cards, teacher's manual (either paper or enhanced CD), and books. The books come in "Priority I Resources" and "Literature Kit" packages, but you can put together your own from used books. If you have more detailed questions, there is a Veritas Yahoo group that focuses on the 2nd-6th grade level, and you can call Veritas at any time for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I started TOG when my oldest was 5yo. We love it. But I don't think we would love it if my dd (now 7yo) were not so incredibly interested in history. (She is already talking about being an author of historical fiction.) TOG is known for its academic rigor, but you will not see it so much in the LG level. My kids get as much out of listening to SOTW audio CDs as they do from the TOG books. I am using TOG now because I am fairly certain we will continue to use it through high school. And it is nice to be able to ease into TOG by starting from the beginning rather than jumping in mid-stream. But there is no way I would make that investment at this stage if I weren't completely committed to homeschooling through high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esse Quam Videri Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I will go against the stream here and say that I would not choose VP for a Ker or a 1st grader. We are supplementing SOTW with VP OTAE and NTGR. We like the cards a lot, but the teacher's manual (we have the enhanced CDs) is essentially worksheets, and lots of short answer worksheets at that (probably too much for your age range). There are some projects (several that didn't work) and reading comprehension questions for the literature selections. But honestly, it's just not a very fun program by itself. Even the backs of the cards are written like your standard textbook- unengaging and honestly, not very well written. I know a lot people enjoy Veritas... but I'm wondering if it's because they've never done anything that's actually really fun? Both of my kids LOVE history. We started with Heart of Dakota and are using SOTW this year along with VP. The only reason we continued VP was to integrate more biblical history, but my kids would choose HOD or SOTW over VP hands down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByGrace3 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 If you decide to use the VP cards I wouldn't use the VP spines for those ages. You could use SOTW or even he new VP book for Ancients might be an option. The TOG books are better for that age as well. For first grade and K I would either use the VP cards as a spine with TOG books to go along and the SOTW AG, use TOG, or look at BP which is TOG lite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) On 12/29/2012 at 8:32 AM, mofbethany said: Edited August 18, 2022 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esse Quam Videri Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 :huh: I've been doing this for ten years now. I've tried plenty of curricula in that time, and I still come back to my trusty VP history. All four of my school age children will tell you they love history, and my oldest specifically credits all those years of VP history when his broad knowledge base is complimented. For what it's worth. :001_smile: Fun is relative, but VP is what you make of it. It's not a "just do what's next" kind of curriculum, and they don't intend every child to do every part. It is a "Here are several fabulous options for you to choose from" curriculum, and you're not restricted to just the spines and lit kit. There are oodles of "fun" options in the catalog. The information on the backs of the cards is simply the most important parts of the history story, and where to find more information in the spines and some extras. From there you choose which spines you'll use, which extra books you'll add, and which projects you'll do. If you don't feel confident doing that on your own, look into buying the Scholars lesson plans for just history (calling VP is easiest for this) or buying an Easy Classical history schedule. When my oldest was little we started with SOTW. By the third kid we were sold on VP and he was rolled in with his siblings as a first grader. It worked splendidly. If I were to use VP history with my oldest in first grade I'd probably only be using a quarter of the program the first time they pass through it, which is more than enough for a first grader. (That history period will roll around again, when that same DC is mature enough to do the full program.) I have no experience whatsoever with TOG, so I can't accurately compare VP and TOG for you. Having bought gobs of curricula my self, I would echo a previous poster on the investment required with TOG not being worth it if you're not homeschooling for the long haul. :001_smile: I was referencing mostly the Teacher manual. If you aren't using that, VP is basically timeline cards and book lists (which we like!). But the TM really is not fun for my kids. I wish I could post some examples here for the OP... I'm looking at OTAE right now. For creation, there is short answer worksheet: "1. What books and chapters of the bible cover the creation of the world? 2. How long has God existed? 3. Next to each day write what God created. Day 1: Day 2:... etc." I don't know about your first grader, but mine did NOT want to do this. Instead, I made my own notebook page that had boxes for him to draw a picture of what was created on each day, with Genesis 1:1 on the top and John 1:1 on the bottom. Then there is a creation mobile template (Sounds good, but the template was difficult to use, and again, it has no pictures to cut/paste and requires writing). Then there is a creation fables worksheet, which tells a few other creation stories in a very textbooky way: "Yet, there was a swirling watery chaos from which arose the god Atum, and he created the gods Shu and Tefnut who then gave birth to Geb (earth) and Nut (heaven), who gave birth to Osiris, Isis, Set, and Nephthys...." This page also has a blank section for the kids to draw one of these creation stories. Then there is a test, which is also short answer and basically a repeat of the worksheet. That is all for week 1. There were some things in VP that we enjoyed, but my kids were just used to more interaction, more living books, and more hands-on learning. And they did not like short answer tests, so we did those orally or not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) . Edited August 18, 2022 by SilverMoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esse Quam Videri Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 There are samples of the TM linked on the VP website. Open the listing that is just a TM and it will be near the bottom. (The worksheets aren't intended for the youngest students.) Good to know, and I hope that helps OP decide. My first grader's eyes were glossing over during the reading about Ur. And the Abram's Time booklet looks nice, but the pictures are small and dark which makes them difficult to color. They did the booklets, and then we used Old Testament Days to make a sleeping mat like Abraham would have had and a meal. This was their highlight :001_smile:. I know I'm bashing VP, but I am in no way trying to be offensive. I understand that there are many people who really, really like it. I just wanted to offer my honest opinion for OP, because we regret our decision to use VP for our kids at this age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebylittle Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Hmm, this has all been helpful to read... I will re-read and allow to sink in. Another option is to read A Child's History of the World with my 1st grader and K-er next year OR just list to SOTW CD and take a more relaxed approach instead of starting history hardcore. Both of them really do like 'projects' and hands on things so I was drawn to the TOG lapbooks for that reason and feel like we could take TOG very lightly like many do with littles. But at the end of the day, since I don't know what we will do in the long-term, it almost does seem like a waste to buy it if the future is uncertain. Anyways, thanks everyone!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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