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So if you've ever permanently separated/divorced a spouse, what did you do in those first days?


Julie in CA
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nm.

 

I don't want to hurt anyone by saying anything further.

 

Gina, I don't think you're hurting anyone by expressing your feelings, but it's pretty obvious that you're not up to speed on Julie's situation. If you knew the details, I truly believe you would understand that she has already done so much to try to save her marriage, and that this is not a decision she has made lightly or quickly, or without incredibly careful consideration and heartache.

 

If you are someone who absolutely believes that marriage is always forever and that there is never any reason to justify divorce, you are certainly entitled to that opinion, but I think most of us here place marriage vows in very high regard, yet still also realize that sometimes, no matter how hard a person prays or tries, the marriage simply isn't going to work. Julie's dh has done so much wrong, yet he still refuses to acknowledge or repent for any of it, and he's lying through his teeth to her about everything.

 

I know you may disagree with me, but I honestly thought Julie should have left her dh a long time ago, because it seemed like he was playing her for a fool and he was treating her very poorly and disrespectfully, while she was bending over backwards to try to make things work, so my only interest right now is to offer her any comfort or advice that I can that may help her move forward to a new and better life.

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nm.

 

I don't want to hurt anyone by saying anything further.

 

 

Her husband is acting exactly like cheating husbands act. Also, emotional "only" affairs are still affairs that are just as damaging. Further, they are hardly ever not physical as well given enough time and opportunity...which Julie's husband has had. It's no surprise they would insist it's not "an affair" though. Perhaps they are telling themselves that or perhaps they are trying to deceive her and not themselves. Either way doesn't matter.

 

But the danger with "everyone" on a thread being a voice of unison for "stay the course/your marriage is over/he's shown himself for now and forever" is that sometimes it isn't the end. Then it might be hard to come back to all who told you to leave and not look back.

 

That said, I think the advice given is exactly what Julie needs to do right now. She has a husband not in remorse and so there is no relationship reconciliation possible and there has been none possible this entire time. This explains a lot she's been through since first discovering things. It's also not at all unusual in how this stuff normally goes. Now Julie knows that and her next move needs to be with that in mind.

 

But I do appreciate a voice saying that the present state might not be forever. Sometimes things do change. Sometimes reality hits them in the face and they come to their senses. People in affairs don't make choices they would normally make and, as has been said I think, there is an actual addictive component involved. That doesn't mean those cheating don't have character issues and major things to face too. It doesn't mean the marriage won't be irretrievably broken by that point, if it ever comes, either. But it's not always black and white and cheater x (someone you or I know as I know a couple of situations like what you might have seen) doesn't equal cheater y (that someone else replying here is thinking of). And of course neither one may be like Julie's husband.

 

Still, the path for Julie right now seems very clear and I'm so sorry for her and her kids. He didn't give her any choice. She can't rebuild a relationship with him as he is and has been. He wasn't acting and reacting like a remorseful husband who had left the affair and was trying to save his marriage because he wasn't that person.

 

Julie, I'm sorry. I'm praying for you and your kids.

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My parents are divorced, my father was unfaithful.

 

I advocate divorce as a last resort, it sounds like you are at that place.

 

Prayers for you and your family, treat this like a death and allow yourself to grieve just like you would if he had died. It is the death of your marriage, which needs to be grieved just like a person.

 

"Are your kids around? I would try to let them comfort me, even though I imagine you are inconsolable."

 

I would just say that this advice is dicey. I would not seek out comfort from your children, they will need comfort from you, and the man is still their father, no matter what he has done. I am not saying you need to act like everything is normal, but try to avoid placing your emotions onto your children. My mother did this, we all felt responsible for her feelings and well being, and ended up acting as a support system much like a spouse would have acted. That is not an appropriate dynamic between children and parents. I'm not saying children shouldn't be supportive of their parents, I'm saying that when children are young they should not be expected to act as an emotional crutch for their parents.

 

If they offer you comfort on their own, that is wonderful and you should take it, I'm simply cautioning you to try not to seek out comfort from them directly. You need to find others you can talk to about this.

 

But do use your kids as a source of purpose as you put one foot in front of another. You need to be strong for them, you are building a new life not only for yourself but for your children as well, no matter how old they are their lives are tied to yours. You just begin sifting through the rubble, moving forward one inch at a time.

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I have not read all the replies yet, I wanted to offer you a "grouphug: first.

 

When my marriage ended I spent the first week or so crying off and on and in a daze, and I was the one that told him to get out. After that was the plan of what to do next. We ended up moving back to the city I was raised in 4 weeks after the separation and had a job waiting for me. So I spent much time in the 3 weeks leading up to the move packing and cleaning and purging, (and daily child care, my oldest kids were only 2.5 yrs and 18 months at the time) and finding the job and getting a one time payment from welfare to cover the cost of the move etc. Basically I filled my time with busy work to keep my mind on taking each next step rather than dwelling on the marriage. I asked him to leave for good reason, and it was 100% the right thing to do but there was still a sense of loss and failure attached to it. Very mixed feelings for a while, and I am not one for that, I have typically have strong feelings in one direction or another, the mixed feelings made it hard for me to think straight.

 

 

Off to read all the replies and see how you did through the holiday.

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That said, I think the advice given is exactly what Julie needs to do right now. She has a husband not in remorse and so there is no relationship reconciliation possible and there has been none possible this entire time. This explains a lot she's been through since first discovering things. It's also not at all unusual in how this stuff normally goes. Now Julie knows that and her next move needs to be with that in mind.

 

But I do appreciate a voice saying that the present state might not be forever. Sometimes things do change. Sometimes reality hits them in the face and they come to their senses. People in affairs don't make choices they would normally make and, as has been said I think, there is an actual addictive component involved. That doesn't mean those cheating don't have character issues and major things to face too. It doesn't mean the marriage won't be irretrievably broken by that point, if it ever comes, either. But it's not always black and white and cheater x (someone you or I know as I know a couple of situations like what you might have seen) doesn't equal cheater y (that someone else replying here is thinking of). And of course neither one may be like Julie's husband.

 

Still, the path for Julie right now seems very clear and I'm so sorry for her and her kids. He didn't give her any choice. She can't rebuild a relationship with him as he is and has been. He wasn't acting and reacting like a remorseful husband who had left the affair and was trying to save his marriage because he wasn't that person.

 

Julie, I'm sorry. I'm praying for you and your kids.

 

I agree. I had a female family members whose husband was cheating. He denied it until he was blue in the face. He claimed he just wasn't happy, etc. His wife finally left. The day she left, she got a call from her neighbor because a new woman had moved into the house. That's when his house of cards came crashing down. They eventually reconciled. He sold their house, left his job and moved back to where her family was from. He got a new job, walked a more narrow path once in that job, which actually led to him being fired for not being a "team player." He stuck to his guns and found a more suitable job. They lived apart while going through counseling on the advice of their pastor. They have a new marriage now, it's different, I'm sure. But, they reconciled many years ago and seem happy.

 

Reconciliation *cannot* happen with a spouse in denial who is unrepentant of his choices. He has to come to terms with what he has really done. He has to repent. He has to make it right (if he even can at this point). Julie isn't the one who can make those things happen.

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Julie,

 

I am SO sorry I did not immediately remember your circumstances. Now that I "got it", I want to post some practical BTDT.

 

The marriage builders site is useful in that he does the best describing unrepentent affairs as an addiction. The way it plays out does have a predictable pattern in many cases. It's important that you know this. The two in the affair are acting on the chemicals of their "new love", and they are going to have to re-write history in order to move forward.

 

It is common for them, as a unit, to re-write your entire marriage, your mothering, your choices. It's common for them to emerge, in their minds, as the better family unit. They may take steps to enlarge their time or even take the kids. It does not matter how absurd it may be.

 

At first, their defense of their relationship will seem absurd to many people in your circle. Over time and repetition, though, they will grow to fully believe their history and some people around them will accept it, also.

 

Be careful about disclosing and relying on his family. Please.

 

You need an attorney, like yesterday.

 

(I don't want to derail the support Julie thread or start a new one. But I do want to post that I find *absolute* separation and divorce from even one affair or one night stand to be perfectly valid response. I found the advice to "try" and make it work to be devastating and soul kiling.)

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(I don't want to derail the support Julie thread or start a new one. But I do want to post that I find *absolute* separation and divorce from even one affair or one night stand to be perfectly valid response. I found the advice to "try" and make it work to be devastating and soul kiling.)

 

:iagree:

 

All it would take would be once, and my dh and I would be DONE.

 

Thankfully, no one here is blaming Julie, but I know that in the past, women have been criticized for considering divorce, even over a long term affair, and they were told that they should pray harder that their dh would change his ways (like she probably hadn't been doing that already if she was the praying kind of person :rolleyes:) or that she needed to make herself more desirable to her dh so he wouldn't want to cheat on her any more (because, you know, he was probably a total Adonis and obviously he must be cheating because she wasn't attractive enough any more. :glare:)

 

I have always found attitudes like that to be very hurtful and to blame one spouse for the other's affair or to make her responsible for it (because she isn't giving him the love, attention, and passionate s*x he is so clearly missing in the marriage :glare:) is absolutely ludicrous to me, because there is no excuse for having an affair. For crying out loud, if you aren't attracted to your spouse any more or you meet someone else you can't resist, leave the marriage before you start dating. That's not rocket science; it's basic decency. And if a spouse messes up and has an affair, I don't want to hear that it's because the marriage was rocky and he needed hugs and love and kisses, so it's really all his wife's fault that he strayed. Ummm... No. It's not.

 

I don't mean to rant, but that kind of attitude -- making the non-cheating spouse responsible for fixing the problems in the marriage -- bugs me beyond belief, and I hope we won't see any of that here. Julie is at such a low point in her life right now, and I just hope that she is taking steps to make changes so that by this time next year, she's feeling happy and content again.

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:iagree:

 

All it would take would be once, and my dh and I would be DONE.

 

Thankfully, no one here is blaming Julie, but I know that in the past, women have been criticized for considering divorce, even over a long term affair, and they were told that they should pray harder that their dh would change his ways (like she probably hadn't been doing that already if she was the praying kind of person :rolleyes:) or that she needed to make herself more desirable to her dh so he wouldn't want to cheat on her any more (because, you know, he was probably a total Adonis and obviously he must be cheating because she wasn't attractive enough any more. :glare:)

 

I have always found attitudes like that to be very hurtful and to blame one spouse for the other's affair or to make her responsible for it (because she isn't giving him the love, attention, and passionate s*x he is so clearly missing in the marriage :glare:) is absolutely ludicrous to me, because there is no excuse for having an affair. For crying out loud, if you aren't attracted to your spouse any more or you meet someone else you can't resist, leave the marriage before you start dating. That's not rocket science; it's basic decency. And if a spouse messes up and has an affair, I don't want to hear that it's because the marriage was rocky and he needed hugs and love and kisses, so it's really all his wife's fault that he strayed. Ummm... No. It's not.

 

I don't mean to rant, but that kind of attitude -- making the non-cheating spouse responsible for fixing the problems in the marriage -- bugs me beyond belief, and I hope we won't see any of that here. Julie is at such a low point in her life right now, and I just hope that she is taking steps to make changes so that by this time next year, she's feeling happy and content again.

 

I wish I could like this post twice! Having survived a marriage destroyed by infidelity I can attest to the fact that it is hurtful to hear how it might have been prevented....thankfully in my life only my xh tells me it is my fault he cheated on me....but it is a terrible feeling! Naturally we already will go over and over what we did wrong or how we weren't perfect but bottom line just like you said there is NO EXCUSE for cheating!

 

Julie you need support now more than you ever have....you need to fully recognize the depth and breadth of the wrong done to you. It is a horrible betrayal.

 

Sure it is possible he will come to his senses, repent of his sins, beg for another chance and you decide to restore the marriage. Or he may do all of that and you decide you are not able to forgive him anyway. I've seen it work both ways. However at THIS point you aren't In that place. You have no choice but to kick him to the curb and protect yourself ( and your children) from his poison.

 

Did you get a lawyer? That needs to happen now.

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(I don't want to derail the support Julie thread or start a new one. But I do want to post that I find *absolute* separation and divorce from even one affair or one night stand to be perfectly valid response. I found the advice to "try" and make it work to be devastating and soul kiling.)

 

 

I don't disagree at ALL. My only point was that he is not acting in a way that facilitates reconciliation if/when that even is/was desired.

 

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... Be careful about disclosing and relying on his family. Please. You need an attorney, like yesterday. ...

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: Shouting the bolded from the rooftop. Even where spouse had solid relationship with in-laws during marriage, I've seen the in-laws "take sides" against the spouse far too many times. I hope your in-laws have the maturity and wisdom to continue a civil relationship with you and a warm relationship with your children.

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