Where do I step in and where do I keep my mouth shut?

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

20 yr old Army son is here for the Holidays. He is single, lives on base, has only a phone bill to pay for. He has no money saved and lives from pay check to pay check. His travel arrangements are sketchy and the chances of him making it back to his Base in time is very iffy due to weather, bus schedules getting messed up (it was suppose to take 12 hours from the airport to here on a bus, took almost 3 days instead...if this happens going back he will miss his plane), no money to buy another plane ticket of things get messed up. I am trying to get him to change his bus ticket to leave a day early but he will chance it...grrr. Not sure what will happen if he misses his plane, he had to take out a loan for the tickets to begin with. Do I insist on this or just keep quiet?

 

His visit was a surprise and I had sent all his gifts to him early. But because he will be here Christmas morning I bought him a few small things and ds and dd bought him something too. I asked Army ds if he needed me to take him shopping for gifts and he said no, he will have to wait till later to get them gifts because money is tight...okay, fine, but I personally think buying something, even small (some candy, journal, something) to give to his siblings would have been appropriate seeing that he is a working adult. Then he tells me later that day he needs to go into town and get a price on repairing his tattoos he got in Korea, hoping it will not be more then $200. I am mad about this...he has $200 to spend on tattoos but not money to buy his father and siblings a gift? Should I open my mouth here and tell him this is wrong? It is selfish from my point of view. He even got a little upset because his Navy brother sent gifts for us but not him (1. no one knew he would be here christmas day, and 2. his navy brother and him do not have a relationship, 3. Navy brother gives gifts to the younger siblings because they are still children) even though he has no intention of giving navy brother a gift. Grrr

 

Last (so far) he is being extremely lazy. Just sits around, does not help clear the table, or help with bringing in the groceries. He has mentioned several times he is on vacation. Common courtesy rules should apply though. Should I mention this?

 

Just happened...using the bathroom with the door open, his excuse...'I checked and dd was not around"...I DID mention this though. This is going to be a looooong week.

[StartingOver]

I have two adult sons, one still in the military. I always get gifts for his younger siblings as back up. He is mostly good about remembering, I just dont want the little ones to be disappointed.

 

But if he ever came to my home and didn' t do his part, vacation or not, I would call him on it. I would not tolerate disrespect. PERIOD.

 

As for hi. getting back to base on time, I would let him make his mistake. You can' t fix everything.

[Robin M]

I would just say " excuse me, my house my rules and i expect you to behave respectfully and as an adult with common courtesy."

even a guest visiting my house would offer to help bring in groceries or help with the dishes.

[mommaduck]

He acting like a jerky teenager, not an adult. I would call him on it...ALL of it.

[elegantlion]

Personally, with your history with him, I would let it go. He's 20 and self-centered. You bringing it up isn't going to change that, it will only make it less likely for him to come home again. I would ask him to shut the bathroom door and I would mention that his siblings might be disappointed with no gifts from him.

 

At some point he will mature and realize that his actions in the past may have been less than ideal. If you want him to be around in your life at that point, bite your tongue a lot right now.

 

 

If he doesn't get back to base in time, the army will deal with that.

[lmrich]

You have to close the door to the bathroom - you address that. The other stuff, will he listen if you tell him? Or will you sound like the adults in Charlie Brown?

[bolt.]

I don't think he needs you to parent him on the issues of his possibly irresponsible travel arrangements, his money management, or his lack of generous impulses. He is showing immaturity, but he isn't going to get more mature through a lecture. He is going to get more mature by living through the consiquences of his choices. You need to let that happen.

 

On the other hand, being a discourteous guest, when you are his host, is something you can address directly. "I want your help with xyz. It bothers me you don't volunteer to help." -- "When you use my bathroom you will close the door. It matters to me, and I expect you to do it every time."

 

However, do not address it as a 'character flaw lecture' ("Son, we need to talk about what selfish irresponsible lifestyle you have chosen.") Nor, heaven forbid, in a passive aggressive way, ("Gee, how's your tatoo, son? I sure hope it isn't as painful as your sisters' disappointment over not getting presents from you... Oh, I'm so worn out from cooking and cleaning. It would be nice to have a little help for a change...")

 

In other words, try to treat him as you would treat someone else as a guest, not your son, but maybe your husband's little brother or something. Try to make him welcome and comfortable as you share the Christmas joy as a family. When he does things that directly conflict with peace and love, ask him directly to do something else... Otherwise wash your hands and let him do the rest of his growing up at his own expense.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Thank you all for the responses. It is hard to hold your tongue when you can see what will most likely be a problem happening, but as many said, he is an adult and needs to learn from his mistakes. I did however make a suggestion about changing his bus pass to a day earlier and he has agreed it would be better to sleep in the airport for a night if the bus runs on time then miss his plane and have to face the Army's wrath.

 

As for the laziness and money...we tried to deal with it while he was living here and it did no good, so you all are right, he needs to mature on his own. Certain things I will expect from him...closing bathroom door, cleaning placemat after eating, and wiping the floor of melted snow from his shoes...the rest I will just keep quiet.

 

Again thanks. Being able to see things while not being in the thick of it helps/

[Joanne]

Yes, I would mention pretty much all of it.

 

The whole gifts thing seems a bit dramatic and complicated, but if he expected some assist in getting to the tattoo fixing place, I would still mention your perception of his thinking and priorities.

 

Does he drink alcohol to excess?

[Danestress]

So how did it go? Did he have anything for the kids? Did he appreciate the gifts he was given and make any mention if he didn't reciprocate?

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

So how did it go? Did he have anything for the kids? Did he appreciate the gifts he was given and make any mention if he didn't reciprocate?

He acted jerky but we all ignored it. Because his gifts were sent early to him in Korea and his visit was unexpected, I went out and bought a few small things so he could open something under the tree. His response to them was pretty much "OH WOW what I always wanted" (sarcastically said) and he did not thank anyone, then he made a few comments about helping the dog with her gifts so he could unwrap something. He made a few snide comments about the money his Navy brother spent on our gifts. Basically he was a jerk.

[goldberry]

I know he is an adult, but I would address his selfishness and attitude. Too many young adults are never called out on their behavior by family "because they are are adults". I would approach it in the sense of "When you act xyz or say xzy, it is selfish and hurtful to the people around you who love and care about you. You are an adult and can make the choice to be that way, but I hope you choose not to because we love you, but we don't enjoy or want to be around anyone who chooses to act like that."

 

With an adult, it is addressing it not as "you need to shape up", but as "here is the way your behavior affects us and what may be the result."

 

I would not put up with that sort of behavior just so he keeps being willing to come around. Who wants someone that nasty and hurtful to be around anyway? Maybe he will think of your words when others start to bail on him as well.

[Ellie]

Last (so far) he is being extremely lazy. Just sits around, does not help clear the table, or help with bringing in the groceries. He has mentioned several times he is on vacation. Common courtesy rules should apply though. Should I mention this?

Of course you should "mention" this. In fact, you should hand him a couple of dishes while you're clearing the table and tell him that all members of the family pitch in, vacation or not. Don't wait for him to offer to do anything. If he wants a "vacation" where he doesn't have to lift a finger, then he should go to a resort.

 

Just happened...using the bathroom with the door open, his excuse...'I checked and dd was not around"...I DID mention this though. This is going to be a looooong week.

 

I'd be all over him for that. And if he didn't put the seat down, I'd be on him for that, as well.

[Chris in VA]

:grouphug:

Mine came home, too--i know your history and you know mine.

It's hard.

 

One day they will grow up.

 

But don't be afraid to mention what is important to you.

 

I can only speak for myself, but perhaps you are similar--I don't want to mention some things because I don't want the conflict. I want to see ds is ok, I want him to be here, but I also still want him to be different, and he's not going to be, right now. I have to detach. I have to make space around me and take responsibility for keeping that space sane and live in that space with my own values. He can no longer trample me. I can't let him, even in the interest of having a drama-free time, even in the interest of keeping things "nice" for everyone else. There is the sense of "don't ruin--don't ruin Christmas, don't ruin the visit, don't confront, don't cause a scene" that keeps me hostage. He can't keep me hostage to "nice" anymore.

 

Live in your sane space with your values, and if he is a jerk, then stand up for yourself.

 

You can do it with humor. You can do it with lightness and kindness. But I know. You really want to kick his ass and tell him how worried you are and what a jerk he's being. You really want to force him, somehow, thru your words and your actions, to change, to grow, to stop being so stupid, to wake the hell up. It's fear and anger and love and worry all mixed in together, and it's just heartbreaking when they ARE such idiots and selfish jerks and on and on and on, and it doesn't stop no matter what you do, and you cry in the middle of the night just thinking how things SHOULD be different, and you review what you did and didn't do, and you just want to slap him and hug him and oh my God not again and Jesus let me let go...

 

You will get thru it. He may never change, but you can hold that hope in your heart for him. You just can't build a life on his anymore.

 

I'm sorry it's so hard.

[gardenmom5]

about the bus/plane tickets. You've made the suggestion - keep your mouth shut. (and when he's up a creek and wants you to bail him out . . .don't.) He may well be one who will ONLY learn "the hard way". yeah, if he's late back he'll be in trouble with his CO - that might actually teach him to think about consequences of not thinking ahead.

 

as for the not helping - don't wait for him to ask, you ask him - hand him a broom, please sweep. as you stand up from dinner, please bring the plates/serving pieces to the kitchen, etc.

 

good luck

[mommaduck]

I know he is an adult, but I would address his selfishness and attitude. Too many young adults are never called out on their behavior by family "because they are are adults". I would approach it in the sense of "When you act xyz or say xzy, it is selfish and hurtful to the people around you who love and care about you. You are an adult and can make the choice to be that way, but I hope you choose not to because we love you, but we don't enjoy or want to be around anyone who chooses to act like that."

 

With an adult, it is addressing it not as "you need to shape up", but as "here is the way your behavior affects us and what may be the result."

 

I would not put up with that sort of behavior just so he keeps being willing to come around. Who wants someone that nasty and hurtful to be around anyway? Maybe he will think of your words when others start to bail on him as well.

 

I agree. His attitude around his siblings needs to be addressed. He's an adult and as such, sets an example and precedent for his little sisters. Remind him that he received his gifts in the mail when he wasn't expected to be there. He could show some gratitude without the sarcasm. Complaining about what his brother spent on the littles compared to him that wanted to spend $200 on a tattoo rather than his little sisters Christmas shows that he is self absorbed and his idea of family is only what he can get out of you all rather than what he can contribute as part of the family. Yes, I would read him the riot act in a very calm, but stern matter. I would let him know that I was disappointed, that I did not raise him to have such an attitude, and that I didn't want to hear any excuses...the only thing I want out of him (and I would tell him this) is to see him change his attitude for the rest of his visit and try to make the rest of Christmas nice for the family and especially for his little sisters. He can go play and be a smart aleck jerk when he gets back to base.

 

Okay, that comes off a bit of "shape up", but if you can twist that shape up into the "your behaviour" that would be great.

[myfunnybunch]

His response to them was pretty much "OH WOW what I always wanted" (sarcastically said) and he did not thank anyone, then he made a few comments about helping the dog with her gifts so he could unwrap something. He made a few snide comments about the money his Navy brother spent on our gifts. Basically he was a jerk.

 

That would NOT fly in our house, from anyone, period.

 

And, to me, this speaks to feeling uncomfortable and insecure and not knowing how to buck up and get over it. Probably he's miserable and feels out of place and partly knows he's being a jerk. It doesn't excuse his behavior in any way, but if you sense he might be in that place emotionally, it can help direct how you deal with it. Just a big hug and a cheery "I'm so glad you're here. I've missed you. I have to clean the kitchen--come help me so we can talk while I work!" might go a long way toward getting some help in a way that is positive for him.

 

:grouphug:

 

I agree that young adults are sometimes let off the hook simply because they are no longer children. It's a difficult balance trying to figure out when to speak up and when to bite your tongue. I would ask him to help you wash the dishes or run errands in the car or rake leaves together and talk to him in that context instead of having a serious sit-down talk. And I'd make sure to tell him that it isn't a lecture from parent to child; instead, you are talking to him the way you'd talk to any adult who behaved that way in your home.

 

I had to discuss some negative behaviors with my young adult daughter, and one of the things I let her know is that though she is ALWAYS welcome in our home (a message we really reinforced during that time--we were consistently giving lots of positive feedback, love, encouragement, so this conversation was not the only feedback she got from us), she is not welcome to behave however she likes while she's here. We only addressed the most major behaviors that had a direct negative impact on the people in our home; the little stuff we let go.

 

We didn't see her for a while. I thought I'd made a huge mistake. BUT she is gradually coming around more and more. She is polite, helpful, and seems to feel loved and welcomed by us. She was here for Christmas and was an absolute delight, as she really always has been underneath the negative stuff. She's still...young...in some ways. And still kind of self-focused, but we can see her waking up a little to the needs of the people around her and making an effort to be a part of things. It will just take some time, I think. Your son will grow up. Being in the military will help, I'd guess. It's going to take a lot of patience on your end, and setting boundaries around the necessary stuff. Hang in there. :)

 

Cat

[Anne in CA]

I am glad you posted because I was just deciding whether to post some of my grumblings about my 24yo visiting for Xmas over Christmas break. She is in college. I still may post because in my case my younger dd really looks up to the older one and the older one is behaving like a junior high age pill most of the time. She has washed the dishes three times though. All three times she has put things in the dishwasher that can be ruined that way, and she know it, but she can feel she has done something productive and been passive-aggressive at the same time. Aggghhh. Plus the 24yo wants to spend the summer at our house working and after the way she has been for the last week there is no way I can deal with it all summer. She is just assuming she can spend the summer here and I am dreading having to enlighten her.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I am glad you posted because I was just deciding whether to post some of my grumblings about my 24yo visiting for Xmas over Christmas break. She is in college. I still may post because in my case my younger dd really looks up to the older one and the older one is behaving like a junior high age pill most of the time. She has washed the dishes three times though. All three times she has put things in the dishwasher that can be ruined that way, and she know it, but she can feel she has done something productive and been passive-aggressive at the same time. Aggghhh. Plus the 24yo wants to spend the summer at our house working and after the way she has been for the last week there is no way I can deal with it all summer. She is just assuming she can spend the summer here and I am dreading having to enlighten her.

 

Hugs.

I am not looking forward to this too, he has mentioned coming back for his next vacation, which will not happen.

[Murphy101]

"I need a ride to the tattoo place. Hope it's less than $200."

 

No can do. Besides, I thought you said you couldn't afford to do anything for gifts. End of discussion. He can change his mind or not, but I'm not going to listen to a bunch of nonsense selfishness about it.

 

I would not have gone out and bought gifts after having already sent them ahead for him. I would have given him a card saying how happy I was to have him home and maybe a tin of his favorite homemade treat.

 

If ds commented that he was ticked his older brother didn't buy him a gift, I would simply state that his brother showed him just as much consideration as he showed everyone else in the family. Again, I wouldn't argue about it or debate it or listen to a bunch of selfish nonsense.

 

If I caught the bathroom door open, I'd scream at him to shut the frekkin door. And I'd likely plan some boobie trap for him. Oh. One of those gag things that will pop out of the toilet when you lift the lid and scare the pee out of him. And video it. And maybe put it on his FB page.

 

Okay. Okay. I wouldn't video it or put it on FB. Really I wouldn't do that.

 

But dang would I laugh and suggest if he doesn't like surprises in the bathroom, neither do the rest of us and to keep the door shut.

 

Calm statements of the obvious and humor is helping me keep what's left of my sanity with teenagers. I'm hoping it continues to work with adult sons.

 

Good luck. .(((hugs)))

[Murphy101]

And I'd inform them I am on vacation too. They can do their own laundry and properly help with some dishes, or eat and sleep elsewhere.

[JFSinIL]

Remind them that, sure, they are adults and can do as they please. BUT - you are also an adult and can do as YOU please,...and that means not putting up with them being jerks.

My 19-yr-old dd was taken aback when I pointed this out. She has improved her behavior.

[CyndiLJ]

The whole bathroom thing is disturbing, and I think I would be tempted to say he is in the position of exposing himself to minors and that outside the home he would be arrested, so you expect him to close the door. Otherwise, I agree with most here and their comments...many good responses!