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Why don't we have the same level of gun violence here?


Canadianmumof5
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Yes, Rosie said that. But she also said that despite that, everyone was influenced by it and I think that's a fair statement. There are certain national myths I don't think much of as a Canadian but they still influence my experience and life as a Canadian.

(Realizing I'm coming back to the party late, having slept and all that, and I'm just catching up but...)

 

I totally agree with this, including the influence part. We are all influenced by our cultural norms, including cultural/national myths. Some people are influenced in opposition to them, but they remain as an underlayment of our daily lives and conduct whether we accept, reject or are completely unaware of them.

 

I also think it's very difficult to step out of the culture we are steeped in and even identify such things in order to get them for acceptance or rejection. Not all, of course, and certainly the internet has given us much more exposure to different cultural patterns that make it easier for us to identify cultural differences and ponder the cause of them, but I think it's probably a stretch to claim that we are not, each of us, influenced by the culture in which we live, and that that culture is not shaped by long-standing myths and traditions whose original meanings/purposes have been long since forgotten.

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There's no way that someone like me could jump through all those hoops and yet it's not safe to not own a gun in this area. Not because of the people but because of the wildlife. I would completely understand there brig some VERY hefty hoops to jump through to carry a handgun or assault rifle. Those are unnecessary to hunting or country living.

 

 

Here in Canada gun ownership demands measures similar to those Halcyon outlined. As she wrote it, it looks like a lot. In practice, really not so much. As someone living in the country, I'm not sure why I shouldn't have the same requirements to meet as someone who's not in the country or the same reassurance that my neighbour has some passed some basic requirements to own his shotguns.

 

After all, in urban areas you might never see your neighbour's gun. In the country your neighbour might be hiking in the woods behind you house as he hunts or tracks down a coyote.

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You ban private ownership of all guns with very few exceptions which require long and annoying background checks, character references, suitably long waiting period, licensing examinations which include sections on gun storage, gun safety and separation of ammo from weapons, and annual licensing renewals demonstrating that the license holder has held to these conditions. Limit the number of guns that can be owned within a household to three, each of which must be registered and licensed. No assault weapons. No detachable cartridges. And limits on the amount of ammo that can be stored at any one time.

 

Make it hard. You want to own a gun? Fine. But it's not going to be easy. At. All. And you have to prove that you are a responsible, careful, cautious person. Serious pain in the neck for all the law-abiding gun owners out there? You bet. But you know what? If it prevents one more child's death, then deal with it.

 

Seriously.

 

 

I really hate that reasoning, it's dismissive of any other argument and that "if" removes any burden for actually proving that those measure would prevent one more death.

 

I'm with you on a lot of those measures as those are the hoops I'd have to jump through here but banning most private ownership? Three guns per house? Yeah, I see a very limited understanding of the roles of guns in a rural house in that post.

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Terrifying. Truly.

 

I guess, IMO, if you're going to live in an area around bears, it makes more sense to understand bear behavior and learn the signs of a bear being nearby. Oh, and bear spray, if it comes down to an outright attack.

 

http://www.fws.gov/m.../bear spray.pdf

 

 

I don't think it's an either/or issue. I have bears 10 feet from my back door. Most are absolutely fine. One young male had to be shot last year though - he was getting unpredictable and dangerous which is not unusual for young, male bears. Generally, knowing bear behaviour is fine but it's no guarantee and certain;y of little help with the odd agressive bears.

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Not sure why bears are the singular focus of rural gun ownership in this thread.

 

People might own guns to hunt rabbits, deer, birds, squirrels, bear, moose, etc. They might own them to defend against bear and cats (cougars, lynx, bobcats). They might own them to defend their wildlife against raccoons, foxes, skunks, neighbour's dogs (yes, that sounds mean but so be it), feral cats.

 

Halcyon's proposed limit of 4 weapons in that scenario is something a lot of rural people would find ridiculous. A gun is NOT simply a gun and you can't simply own a couple that will do for most purposes in the same way that a carpenter can't own one of two saws that will see him through every scenario. Different tools have different purposes and it's often useless or even dangerous to substitute one for another.

 

But I think that's the issue in the US. The opposition to gun control is framed in rural issues. The pro-gun control sentiment is framed in more urban concerns. Neither side seems willing to acknowledge the experiences and needs of the other.

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All the "bear" talks are kind of irrelevant...I believe we have just as many bears up here....being all rock and trees....rocks and trees....anyway.....

 

It is always interesting to me that people talk about their "rights" to guns or to drive but I do think that sometimes people should be more concerned about their responsibilities. (I think all the drivers on "Canada's worst drivers" should have their licenses revoked!)

 

I believe that as a previous poster stated, it seems that one major difference is the "socialist" type attitude. This may be a misperception due to some of the news covereage we get up here of an American saying that they should not have to pay toward someone elses care/well-being. There is also the perception that America is akin to an empire which believes it must impose its views on others. I believe most Canadians see themselves as more laid back/peacekeepers/tolerant.

 

I am definitely NOT saying that this is true of all Americans or all Canadians but these are feelings that I have heard and (to be honest) sometimes felt myself.

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I know I have a different cultural background, but it always puzzles me when I hear guns aren't to blame for shooting. Well, without guns you can't have firearm related deaths. Stats are horrifying. In 2010, unintentional firearm injuries caused the deaths of 606 people. From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.

A federal government study of unintentional shootings found that 8% of such shooting deaths resulted from shots fired by children under the age of six.

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/

 

 

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Halcyon's proposed limit of 4 weapons in that scenario is something a lot of rural people would find ridiculous. A gun is NOT simply a gun and you can't simply own a couple that will do for most purposes in the same way that a carpenter can't own one of two saws that will see him through every scenario. Different tools have different purposes and it's often useless or even dangerous to substitute one for another.

 

But I think that's the issue in the US. The opposition to gun control is framed in rural issues. The pro-gun control sentiment is framed in more urban concerns. Neither side seems willing to acknowledge the experiences and needs of the other.

:iagree: Limiting the number of guns per household just wouldn't work for us. We have 3 hunters living here, who would like to have 3 types of guns each for the purpose of hunting different types of animals (we don't, but they are working on it). One gun does not work in every situation. There are laws against that.

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Could one (or more) of our Canadian friends reposed to this post, as I'm most interested in the answers.

 

Bill

 

 

I've been both, and all I have to say is that the fundamental difference is attitude. Americans have an attitude about themselves that is quintessentially unlike Canadians. The Canadians will know exactly what I mean. The Americans will get all shirty and pissy at any insinuation that their attitude isn't the 100% correct one and the rest of the world just need more of their way of doing everything. E.g. y'all just don't get it.

 

I'm so tired of the debate on any of this. Please, continue to cling to your guns and blame everything else on all those gun deaths, except the precious hallowed guns, of course. Go ahead and arm everybody. Then, you can shoot the heck out of each other all you like. Eventually we'll stop hearing about it because there won't be anyone down there left to shoot.

 

Really, this gun sh!t is your own d@mn problem. If you really want to do something get all the moms who give a d@mn to form Moms against gun-nuts and do for guns what MADD did for driving drunk.

 

In other words: Fix it or shut the h3ll up about it.

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I've been both, and all I have to say is that the fundamental difference is attitude. Americans have an attitude about themselves that is quintessentially unlike Canadians. The Canadians will know exactly what I mean. The Americans will get all shirty and pissy at any insinuation that their attitude isn't the 100% correct one and the rest of the world just need more of their way of doing everything. E.g. y'all just don't get it.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I had a really interesting convo with a lawyer friend of mine about some event she went to where one of the speakers was talking about the fundamental differences between Canadians and Americans. There was something about the types of people (class, culture etc) that settled in each country and the belief about what it means to be a "man". In the U.S it seems to be very much about relying on yourself and only yourself (the frontier issue that someone mentioned elsewhere) whereas Canadians tend towards putting the group above the individual. They also brought up the Civil War to highlight the differences but I can't remember the specifics of that.

 

This may or not be off topic but she also went to a immigration law seminar and apparently Canadians have stronger interpersonal skills then any other country and that it's often an issue for immigrants entering the work force here.

 

It's hard to articulate but there's a huge difference in attitude. I'm often am completely baffled by stuff I read in the American news. I just can't fantom how people can think the way they do there.

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I've been both, and all I have to say is that the fundamental difference is attitude. Americans have an attitude about themselves that is quintessentially unlike Canadians. The Canadians will know exactly what I mean. The Americans will get all shirty and pissy at any insinuation that their attitude isn't the 100% correct one and the rest of the world just need more of their way of doing everything. E.g. y'all just don't get it.

 

I'm so tired of the debate on any of this. Please, continue to cling to your guns and blame everything else on all those gun deaths, except the precious hallowed guns, of course. Go ahead and arm everybody. Then, you can shoot the heck out of each other all you like. Eventually we'll stop hearing about it because there won't be anyone down there left to shoot.

 

Really, this gun sh!t is your own d@mn problem. If you really want to do something get all the moms who give a d@mn to form Moms against gun-nuts and do for guns what MADD did for driving drunk.

 

In other words: Fix it or shut the h3ll up about it.

 

 

WOW - maybe you need to back away from this thread. There are Americans who would be absolutely thrilled with much tighter gun controls, and would even be happy to have no guns. Some of us would love national health care. Some of us wouldn't dream of getting our news from FOX. Some of us delight in open dialog, can understand both sides of an argument, and are sick to death of the polarization painted by politicians and the media. Some of read headlines in the morning and are disgusted by what we see.

 

This just comes off as a hateful rant. You're free to leave a thread at any time FTR.

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I've been both, and all I have to say is that the fundamental difference is attitude. Americans have an attitude about themselves that is quintessentially unlike Canadians. The Canadians will know exactly what I mean. The Americans will get all shirty and pissy at any insinuation that their attitude isn't the 100% correct one and the rest of the world just need more of their way of doing everything. E.g. y'all just don't get it.

 

I'm so tired of the debate on any of this. Please, continue to cling to your guns and blame everything else on all those gun deaths, except the precious hallowed guns, of course. Go ahead and arm everybody. Then, you can shoot the heck out of each other all you like. Eventually we'll stop hearing about it because there won't be anyone down there left to shoot.

 

Really, this gun sh!t is your own d@mn problem. If you really want to do something get all the moms who give a d@mn to form Moms against gun-nuts and do for guns what MADD did for driving drunk.

 

In other words: Fix it or shut the h3ll up about it.

 

 

That's rather nasty. Feel better?

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I have family in Canada. I assure you not everyone there loves universal healthcare and many like their guns. Just like not everyone in America wants to join the NRA and see starving people without health care. I don't think everyone knows what all of the "Americans" or all of the "Canadians" are thinking. This thread goes back and forth with us vs them and I hate it.

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I have family in Canada. I assure you not everyone there loves universal healthcare and many like their guns. Just like not everyone in America wants to join the NRA and see starving people without health care. I don't think everyone knows what all of the "Americans" or all of the "Canadians" are thinking. This thread goes back and forth with us vs them and I hate it.

 

I really appreciate this post. I always pick up a vibe on this board that everything in Canada is perfect. I hear nothing but the wonders of universal healthcare and then I see one of our regular Canadian posters hasn't been able to get a doctor to see her for months and months and will have her first OB appointment at 20 weeks. Nobody ever seems to comment on that.

 

I'm sure there are many wonderful things about Canada, but there are just as many great things about America or we wouldn't have people flooding into the country fighting for citizenship every day.

 

Lisa

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I've been both, and all I have to say is that the fundamental difference is attitude. Americans have an attitude about themselves that is quintessentially unlike Canadians. The Canadians will know exactly what I mean. The Americans will get all shirty and pissy at any insinuation that their attitude isn't the 100% correct one and the rest of the world just need more of their way of doing everything. E.g. y'all just don't get it.

 

I'm so tired of the debate on any of this. Please, continue to cling to your guns and blame everything else on all those gun deaths, except the precious hallowed guns, of course. Go ahead and arm everybody. Then, you can shoot the heck out of each other all you like. Eventually we'll stop hearing about it because there won't be anyone down there left to shoot.

 

Really, this gun sh!t is your own d@mn problem. If you really want to do something get all the moms who give a d@mn to form Moms against gun-nuts and do for guns what MADD did for driving drunk.

 

In other words: Fix it or shut the h3ll up about it.

 

I'm an American and I understand what you're saying. I feel the same way except doing something about it. We can't do anything about it though because of the underlying attitudes Americans have. And I say that in a general sense because I know there are more of us out there but it's not enough. The truly fanatical gun owners specifically own their guns to protect themselves FROM our govt. They have specific threats of what they will do if anyone tries to take their guns.

 

TBH I'm not sure America will ever let go of its arrogance. I do think this country is on a path of self destruction. DH works for a company with offices all over the world and he is currently trying to get into the Australian office. I think of my childrens' and my grandchildrens' future and I feel like the greatest gift I can give them is citizenship in a safer country. Only one friend knows about this so hopefully I'm anonymous here. :) I just wanted to add it in because I'm sure the 'just move to another country' comments are coming.

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I'm an American, raised in the south (Well Texas, to be exact, which is a whole 'nother can of worms), but have lived out my adult life in the west. If I was to assign an overarching stereotype to my countrymen/women, arrogant and ignorant would be my choice. No, not everybody is, maybe not even the majority is, but the loudest and brashest tend to be so that's what most others see about us. I live here, and that's what I see about us. The gun issue is just one example. Most people I know that are for gun control don't want to "ban" guns, they just want reasonable limits on the types of guns and how many a person can own. But even hint at gun control and everyone starts screaming "no one's gonna take my guns!"

 

I don't know if I'm getting older or if it really is getting worse, but this attitude now touches almost every thing. Don't believe in God? You aren't a real American. No flag in front of your house? You're not a real American. Want some reasonable limitations on guns? Get the heck out of our country. Every. Single. Thing. I think these voices were always there, they just weren't so loud until the advent of the internet and 24 hour media. Now, they are all I hear.

 

Gun control, like everything else, is shades of gray, not black and white. Too many people want black and white, and that just isn't how life works. If people would just see and talk about the things in between, maybe we could get something done. But heck no, we're Americans and we just don't compromise. It saddens me, really.

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I think those that think Americans are arrogant, self-centered crazies need to try a little harder at meeting new people. I've lived in several different states, from the west coast to the east coast, and just do not encounter those attitudes in the majority of people I meet/know. I can't believe this thread has devolved into us vs them with Americans being horrible people. It's just as closed-minded and short-sighted as the pro-gun people who see gun control as equalling no guns.

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I think those that think Americans are arrogant, self-centered crazies need to try a little harder at meeting new people. I've lived in several different states, from the west coast to the east coast, and just do not encounter those attitudes in the majority of people I meet/know. I can't believe this thread has devolved into us vs them with Americans being horrible people. It's just as closed-minded and short-sighted as the pro-gun people who see gun control as equalling no guns.

 

 

:iagree: I could not agree more.

 

It's probably high time this thread moved on to bacon and kilts. :drool5:

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I've been both, and all I have to say is that the fundamental difference is attitude. Americans have an attitude about themselves that is quintessentially unlike Canadians. The Canadians will know exactly what I mean. The Americans will get all shirty and pissy at any insinuation that their attitude isn't the 100% correct one and the rest of the world just need more of their way of doing everything. E.g. y'all just don't get it.

I'm so tired of the debate on any of this. Please, continue to cling to your guns and blame everything else on all those gun deaths, except the precious hallowed guns, of course. Go ahead and arm everybody. Then, you can shoot the heck out of each other all you like. Eventually we'll stop hearing about it because there won't be anyone down there left to shoot.

Really, this gun sh!t is your own d@mn problem. If you really want to do something get all the moms who give a d@mn to form Moms against gun-nuts and do for guns what MADD did for driving drunk.

In other words: Fix it or shut the h3ll up about it.

 

So we're supposed to WANT to emulate a Canadian attitude? It doesn't SEEM all that nice . . . unless, of course, Canadians are actually different people with different attitudes. That can't be right. Can it?

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I've been both, and all I have to say is that the fundamental difference is attitude. Americans have an attitude about themselves that is quintessentially unlike Canadians. The Canadians will know exactly what I mean. The Americans will get all shirty and pissy at any insinuation that their attitude isn't the 100% correct one and the rest of the world just need more of their way of doing everything. E.g. y'all just don't get it.

 

I'm so tired of the debate on any of this. Please, continue to cling to your guns and blame everything else on all those gun deaths, except the precious hallowed guns, of course. Go ahead and arm everybody. Then, you can shoot the heck out of each other all you like. Eventually we'll stop hearing about it because there won't be anyone down there left to shoot.

 

Really, this gun sh!t is your own d@mn problem. If you really want to do something get all the moms who give a d@mn to form Moms against gun-nuts and do for guns what MADD did for driving drunk.

 

In other words: Fix it or shut the h3ll up about it.

 

 

So all Americans have one attitude and all Canadians have another? Yeah, that certainly sounds well thought out and very logical.

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I've been both, and all I have to say is that the fundamental difference is attitude. Americans have an attitude about themselves that is quintessentially unlike Canadians. The Canadians will know exactly what I mean. The Americans will get all shirty and pissy at any insinuation that their attitude isn't the 100% correct one and the rest of the world just need more of their way of doing everything. E.g. y'all just don't get it.

 

I'm so tired of the debate on any of this. Please, continue to cling to your guns and blame everything else on all those gun deaths, except the precious hallowed guns, of course. Go ahead and arm everybody. Then, you can shoot the heck out of each other all you like. Eventually we'll stop hearing about it because there won't be anyone down there left to shoot.

 

Really, this gun sh!t is your own d@mn problem. If you really want to do something get all the moms who give a d@mn to form Moms against gun-nuts and do for guns what MADD did for driving drunk.

 

In other words: Fix it or shut the h3ll up about it.

 

Afraid to click those inadvertent links... :eek:

 

Seriously, you probably have a point about Americans. But surely you realize that all MADD did was curb the basically responsible people from driving after drinking. The ones with real alcohol problems didn't change a thing and are arrested all the time. The same situation would occur with guns.

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