So, if I were getting panicky about Logic stage science and

[Jayne J]

I were developing a twitchy right eye from researching curricula, which threads or resources would you point me too? I am re-reading WTM (1st and 3rd editions) and listening to SWB's talk on science, but what else should I read? I know there were a bunch of posters here who loved to talk science, but I cannot remember names and my searches aren't pulling up much.

I am careening between a read/experiment/write concept and just buying a curriculum like ES or Classiquest to have it all "done" for me, complete with neat worksheets to label. I am not a science person, and the whole thing is making me nuts.

 

Imagine the big ear smilie here...

[lewelma]

I love to talk about science! Pick me! :001_smile:

 

Search for the tag "science with Ruth". There are about 15 threads. Recently, I have helped a few people think through what exactly they want to achieve, what their students want, what they as parents can provide, and then design/pick a program for the individual situation.

 

Ruth in NZ

[AimeeM]

Anything "by Ruth". Lol. Can't go wrong. I'm trying to find the thread she wrote for me, for our science next year. She was wonderful and incredibly helpful.

[Jayne J]

Off to search and read.

 

Will be back to pester and ask.

 

:)

 

 

ETA: Ack! My searches for the tag science with Ruth only turn up two threads, even though it says there are 20 threads with this tag. Could anyone be so kind as to link me to some, or help me figure out what I am doing wrong?

[2_girls_mommy]

I am not the sciency type either. My kids get plenty. I have always followed WTM and done science fairs with them and nature study and field trips and notebooking and experiments etc etc etc. But not my fave thing, ya know? I settled on for 1st year of logic study:

 

I picked Memoria Press' 5th grade science for our classical segment. Then my dd10 is taking a science co-op class using Prentice Hall's 6th grade Science Explorers text. Luckily they do the experiments there, but if I had to we could do some at home instead. This seems to be a really good combo for us. We did the MP bird unit first (which has translated into an ongoing love here...) then started the SE class w/microscope, graphing, weighing, cells, plants, and now animals this semester. Then she reads along side it the History of Medicine book. This has been good for us.

I am happy with this year, but am getting twitchy planning next year. I am hoping a similar opportunity presents itself... Good luck to you in the tag search. I have enjoyed those threads as well.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Science with Ruth, Science with Ruth!!! Very inspiring threads, I hope you find them.

 

We are doing a whole mess o' stuff for science, it's one of my favorite subjects and we tend to do a lot. It is one area where I have long-term goals of what I'd like dd to be exposed to before high school, but also an area where I see a lot of room for interest-led studies, and great non-texty studies during the Logic stage. It seems like in high school, you are pretty stuck with a particular set of content/texts/labs for each subject, so why not have fun and explore interests in the middle grades?

 

How I think that will look at our house: well, for 5th grade, we've been doing biology. At the beginning of the year, we borrowed a microscope, and we learned to use it, and we studied cells and microorganisms, then fungi, all using amazing books from the library, and videos/documentaries. In the spring, we'll finish that out by studying plants; I'm thinking we will use Ellen McHenry's Botany curriculum. Alongside all that, dd is studying two topics of her choice: Entomology and Equine Science (using WP's program). She has a curriculum for each, but also does lots of outside reading, we've raised several insects, and she has just started horseback riding lessons.

 

Now, we need to tackle physics, it's the one subject we haven't studied at all yet. Hakim's Story of Science really appealed to dd - she is a big picture, make connections across disciplines kind of thinker (as is her mama!) so I think this will be a nice fit - we will start Aristotle in January, so this will be a nice historical intro to physical science. Next year, in 6th, we will do the Newton book, along with a slew of supplements. Term 1 will focus on Astronomy, so we'll use the book Galileo for Kids, and we will read Dava Sobel's The Planets, and we have the Thames & Kosmos Milestones of Science activity kit that has astronomy activities. Term 2 will focus on Newtonian physics, so along with SOS, the T&K kit, and videos, we will ad LOF Physics and the Isaac Newton for Kids book.

 

In 7th grade, we'll finish the Newton book, and then do Chemistry (for the second go-round) using McHenry's materials, The Elements and Carbon Chemistry, along with the T&K activities. Finally we'll hit electricity & magnetism, with T&K activities.

 

8th grade is still up in the air, right now I'm thinking that in Term 1 we will revisit Biology/Biochem using McHenry's The Cell and Exploring the Way Life Works. Then in Term 2 we will review the foundations of science, preparing for high school sciences, using Hazen & Trefil's book Science Matters, and maybe Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything.

 

Geez, this is all so excting I can hardly wait!!! :D

[momto2Cs]

Here's a Ruth thread I find very helpful... Science activities: Setting goals and evaluating usefullness of activities

[momto2Cs]

Off to search and read.

 

Will be back to pester and ask.

 

:)

 

 

ETA: Ack! My searches for the tag science with Ruth only turn up two threads, even though it says there are 20 threads with this tag. Could anyone be so kind as to link me to some, or help me figure out what I am doing wrong?

 

 

 

I'm having the same problem. Weird.

[lewelma]

I implemented the disaster recovery plan a few months ago and have saved all my posts and references. :hurray: for me! Here they are:

 

Resources I use: post 62 and 64 http://forums.welltr....=361740&page=7

Systematic and Interest led at the same time: post 65 http://forums.welltr....=361740&page=7

Goals of scientific education: post 83 http://forums.welltr....=263107&page=9.

Goals for elementary, logic, and high school science: post 58 of http://forums.welltr....d.php?t=425932

Evaluating usefulness of lab work: posts 1, 2, 3, 14 http://forums.welltr....d.php?t=425932

What output is required: post 2 and 9 http://forums.welltr....d.php?t=412041 and post 8 http://forums.welltr....d.php?t=416977

Running scientific investigations (week by week for 10 weeks): posts 1 to 60 http://forums.welltr....d.php?t=361740

Shorter examples of scientific investigations: post 47, 48, 54, an 61, 65, 66 (and others on this thread) on http://forums.welltr....=263107&page=5

Easy biology projects http://forums.welltr...e/#entry4459162

Protecting your student from misinformation about how the scientific method works: post 90 http://forums.welltr....=263107&page=9

Creating a plan for your student. post 22 http://forums.welltr....=414500&page=3 and post 2 http://forums.welltr....d.php?t=416977

What questions to ask yourself and your students to arrive at a plan: posts 4, 13,14,18, 23 - 27 http://forums.welltr...e/#entry4513402; all posts in: http://forums.welltr.../#entry4436605; all posts in http://forums.welltr...h/#entry4431909 (for some reason all three of these threads reverting to the last post, just go to post #1)

[Jayne J]

Ahh! Thank you Ruth. I will be busily reading this evening. I'm not sure why I couldn't bring them up in my search.

 

 

[Jayne J]

I've read many posts by Ruth and others, and pondered, and written lists. Thank you Ruth for your generosity of time and thought! You gave me a great structure to help me think about what my goals are.

 

Here is my own personal list of goals for DS for logic stage science:

 

Basic content exposure. We have used the four year cycle and I feel it has helped ds get exposure to all areas of science and not just the ones he likes best (zoology and physics). I plan to continue more or less the same, going a little more in depth and adding more detailed/abstract levels. For example, in grammar stage biology for human anatomy we studied major body systems, senses, and hygiene. This time around we'll add cellular biology and genetics etc. So, basic content.

 

But for me, the main goals of logic stage science are questions about the nature of science itself. Questions like:

 

1. What is science? What are the limits, if any, of science. What questions can it answer and which can it not? Why? Ds has begun to be interested in cryptozoology, which is leading to discussions about what science can and cannot do, for example.

 

2. What is a scientist? How do they work? What are their goals? (Yes I realize that question is huge and each scientist will answer it differently!). What is their context--why do they choose the questions they do, and not others? I'm thinking lots of scientist biographies, and series like Scientists in the Field. What are their biases and presuppositions? How might these things influence the scientist? Why do scientists in the same field disagree on topics?

 

3. How do we evaluate scientific claims? (Logic, understanding methods, critical thinking, etc.)

 

These are my big, overarching goals. I feel that much of the scientific method practice (ie setting up and conducting a real experiment, which Ruth so eloquently describes) will come in later for us, maybe towards 8th or 9th grade. The goal would be to shift gradually from my stated goals to actual implementation of the scientific method over the logic stage years.

 

Ok. Here is the pester and ask portion of the thread. :)

 

1) I want to encourage ds to both survey all the fields of science (by covering certain fields yearly) but also to jump in where he is passionate and go deeper. Ds has, from age three been passionate about gorillas and venomous snakes. He has read and studied almost every book our county library system has to offer. He has watched documentaries, and written his own books, complete with graphs of comparative sizes and maps indicating territory. We are on a first name basis with the gorilla at our local zoo (she is famous, having been featured in People magazine!). Yet, when asked what he would like to learn about, he enthusiastically says either gorillas, or cobras, or black mambas. So, hands on might be...risky and expensive, to say the least. LOL. But short of moving into college level texts, which he could not handle, I am stumped. Do you have any suggestions as to how to help him continue to pursue these interests? I feel up against a wall on this one, unsure of how to help him go deeper.

 

2) Any suggestions about resources to help me meet the goals stated above?

 

3) Any thoughts as to what I may be overlooking, or under-thinking?

 

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

I've read many posts by Ruth and others, and pondered, and written lists. Thank you Ruth for your generosity of time and thought! You gave me a great structure to help me think about what my goals are.

 

Here is my own personal list of goals for DS for logic stage science:

 

Basic content exposure. We have used the four year cycle and I feel it has helped ds get exposure to all areas of science and not just the ones he likes best (zoology and physics). I plan to continue more or less the same, going a little more in depth and adding more detailed/abstract levels. For example, in grammar stage biology for human anatomy we studied major body systems, senses, and hygiene. This time around we'll add cellular biology and genetics etc. So, basic content.

 

But for me, the main goals of logic stage science are questions about the nature of science itself. Questions like:

 

1. What is science? What are the limits, if any, of science. What questions can it answer and which can it not? Why? Ds has begun to be interested in cryptozoology, which is leading to discussions about what science can and cannot do, for example.

 

2. What is a scientist? How do they work? What are their goals? (Yes I realize that question is huge and each scientist will answer it differently!). What is their context--why do they choose the questions they do, and not others? I'm thinking lots of scientist biographies, and series like Scientists in the Field. What are their biases and presuppositions? How might these things influence the scientist? Why do scientists in the same field disagree on topics?

 

3. How do we evaluate scientific claims? (Logic, understanding methods, critical thinking, etc.)

 

These are my big, overarching goals. I feel that much of the scientific method practice (ie setting up and conducting a real experiment, which Ruth so eloquently describes) will come in later for us, maybe towards 8th or 9th grade. The goal would be to shift gradually from my stated goals to actual implementation of the scientific method over the logic stage years.

 

Ok. Here is the pester and ask portion of the thread. :)

 

1) I want to encourage ds to both survey all the fields of science (by covering certain fields yearly) but also to jump in where he is passionate and go deeper. Ds has, from age three been passionate about gorillas and venomous snakes. He has read and studied almost every book our county library system has to offer. He has watched documentaries, and written his own books, complete with graphs of comparative sizes and maps indicating territory. We are on a first name basis with the gorilla at our local zoo (she is famous, having been featured in People magazine!). Yet, when asked what he would like to learn about, he enthusiastically says either gorillas, or cobras, or black mambas. So, hands on might be...risky and expensive, to say the least. LOL. But short of moving into college level texts, which he could not handle, I am stumped. Do you have any suggestions as to how to help him continue to pursue these interests? I feel up against a wall on this one, unsure of how to help him go deeper.

 

2) Any suggestions about resources to help me meet the goals stated above?

 

3) Any thoughts as to what I may be overlooking, or under-thinking?

 

 

It sounds like you could get where you want to go by using a book like Science Matters by Hazen and Trefil as a spine - this would cover both survey of basic content, and then address some of the questions about what science is and how it works. This is an essential book, IMO, for everyone, but particularly for a student to have a grasp of before entering the more specialized study of subject areas in high school. You could then bring in other resources, hands-on activities, etc. as his interest is piqued by the various topics. It would be a thorough survey.

 

For Goal #3, my very favorite book is The Demon-Haunted World, by Carl Sagan. The Magic of Reality by Dawkins is a strong second. They both examine what science is and what it is not, the kinds of questions it can address (and can not) and logic, critical thinking, etc, and the Dawkins book also has a nice survey of what we do know in science (and how we know it).

[Jayne J]

Thank you for the titles Rose! I have Science Matters on my TBR shelf, so it will get pushed to the head of the list, and I will check for the others at my library.

[Coffeemama]

Thank you for the titles Rose! I have Science Matters on my TBR shelf, so it will get pushed to the head of the list, and I will check for the others at my library.

 

 

I just went over to Amazon to order Science Matters and it's a good thing they show a picture of the cover...yup, already own it. I remeber starting it (and liking it) this summer, but I must have put it down to read something else and forgot about it. That's another reason why I love reading this board. thank you!

[Chrysalis Academy]

I should also mention that Hazen & Trefil have an introductory college-level text that fleshes out the info in Science Matters in a more textbooky-form. It's called The Sciences: an Integrated Approach, and I really love it. I'm playing with the idea of going through Science Matters in 8th grade, and then creating a 4-year integrated science curriculum (with focused labs each year, Physics-Chem-Bio-Ecology/Earth Sci) for high school, building off the the textbook. Anyway, I adore this big-picture, here's how it all fits together approach to science.

[lewelma]

1) I want to encourage ds to both survey all the fields of science (by covering certain fields yearly) but also to jump in where he is passionate and go deeper.Ds has, from age three been passionate about gorillas and venomous snakes.

 

Here is one approach for covering fields yearly:

 

5th: Biology

6th Earth Science

7th Chemistry

8th Physics

 

Given your ds's passion, I would use it to your advantage. I would have him alternate general study with detailed study of his focus animals. I think that the internet is your friend! In the logic stage he can ask more difficult questions. You will need to find some detailed books on amazon if your library does not have any. So, for Biology, you would need books on : anatomy, ecology, biochemistry, genetics, and botany: Here is one way to run a biology course with his interests:

 

Sept: Animal anatomy (digestion, circulation, etc)

Oct: Research, create a poster, a give a presentation on how the anatomy of gorillas and snakes differ. Or how gorillas differ from monkeys

Nov: Ecology ( biomes, food webs etc)

Dec: Research, create a poster, give a presentation on how the gorilla affects the environment he lives in. Or how do venomous snakes fit into the food web of a certain ecological system. etc

Jan: Biochemistry (DNA, protein synthesis, etc)

Feb: Research: what make snake venom poisonous. Why are some snake poisonous and others not.

Mar: Genetics

April: How do zoos breed gorillas to preserve their genetic lines and prevent inbreeding? How many different families are venomous snakes in and how are they genetically related to non-venomous snakes

May: Plants: diversity, photosynthesis etc

June: What do his creatures eat? Why? competition with other species? etc

etc

 

Earth Science: Given his interest I would focus on conservation biology and environmental science rather than volcanoes and earthquakes

Sept: Conservation biology: How are wildlife preserves created? How large do they need to be? How are they protected?

Oct: Research: gorilla wildlife preserves. Poisonous snake numbers. Endangered species.

Nov: Biomes: study antarctic, rainforests, deserts, temperate forests, etc

Dec: What Biome do gorillas live in? What limits them physiologically or ecologically from expanding their range? same questions for snakes.

Jan: Global warming: what is expected in climate, movement of biomes. How does this inform conservation biology?

Feb: How will global warming affect gorillas and poisonous snakes? their range, habitat, food supply, etc

Mar: Pollution: air, land, water, etc

Apr; How does pollution affect gorillas and poisonous snakes?

etc

 

Now, chemistry and physics are going to be more difficult to apply to his focus area. So I would wait and see if he wants to continue to apply all his learning to these to areas of interest. If so, you can study chemistry of poison and the physics of muscles, but the research will get more detailed and intense. I would suggest one year at a time.

 

But for me, the main goals of logic stage science are questions about the nature of science itself. Questions like:

 

1. What is science? What are the limits, if any, of science. What questions can it answer and which can it not? Why? Ds has begun to be interested in cryptozoology, which is leading to discussions about what science can and cannot do, for example.

 

2. What is a scientist? How do they work? What are their goals? (Yes I realize that question is huge and each scientist will answer it differently!). What is their context--why do they choose the questions they do, and not others? I'm thinking lots of scientist biographies, and series like Scientists in the Field. What are their biases and presuppositions? How might these things influence the scientist? Why do scientists in the same field disagree on topics?

 

3. How do we evaluate scientific claims? (Logic, understanding methods, critical thinking, etc.)

 

How is your own understanding of these issues? I would not use a curriculum to address these topics, but instead rely on discussions. I would:

1) read the newspaper and discuss issues in the news

2) read a science magazine and discuss current scientific discoveries

3) read biographies (as you suggested)

4) brainstorm experiments for every scientific question your son asks.

 

But I think that you are a few years too early. Personally, I would not address these issues intensively until a student is about 14. I think that students need to understand the complexity of science through detailed study before they can evaluate scientific claims or can have an opinion about whether a scientist is biased. Scientists are experts in their fields - EXPERTS. Yes, the media often reduces very complex issues into sound bites that can be picked apart by the lay public, but if you get into the details, scientific claims are not so easily dismissed. Scientists spend decades studying a single small topic. They are not idiots. They disagree because of the probabilistic nature of most things under study. And to think that a middle schooler has the ability to evaluate scientific claims is a bit absurd. I don't mean this in a mean way, but I think that in the logic stage you must be very careful to not undermine scientists. I see this a lot in the general media, and it really makes me mad. My personal goal is definitely scientific literacy and that means cold hard study of concepts in Biology, Earth Science, Chemistry, and Physics. Not nearly as much fun as picking apart a sound bite, but in the end much much more useful. Sorry if that was too harsh!! I think that you can definitely compare pseudoscience with science and talk about the difference. But just be very careful to make sure that your ds realizes that the media is simplifying scientists' research, and that the original research is very complete if it is going to pass peer review (ask me how I know!)

 

Happy to answer more questions,

 

Ruth in NZ

[lewelma]

double post

[Tress]

But I think that you are a few years too early. Personally, I would not address these issues intensively until a student is about 14. I think that students need to understand the complexity of science through detailed study before they can evaluate scientific claims or can have an opinion about whether a scientist is biased. Scientists are experts in their fields - EXPERTS. Yes, the media often reduces very complex issues into sound bites that can be picked apart by the lay public, but if you get into the details, scientific claims are not so easily dismissed. Scientists spend decades studying a single small topic. They are not idiots. They disagree because of the probabilistic nature of most things under study. And to think that a middle schooler has the ability to evaluate scientific claims is a bit absurd. I don't mean this in a mean way, but I think that in the logic stage you must be very careful to not undermine scientists. I see this a lot in the general media, and it really makes me mad. My personal goal is definitely scientific literacy and that means cold hard study of concepts in Biology, Earth Science, Chemistry, and Physics. Not nearly as much fun as picking apart a sound bite, but in the end much much more useful. Sorry if that was too harsh!! I think that you can definitely compare pseudoscience with science and talk about the difference. But just be very careful to make sure that your ds realizes that the media is simplifying scientists' research, and that the original research is very complete if it is going to pass peer review (ask me how I know!)

 

Hear, hear!

[Jayne J]

Thank you Ruth for your suggestions as to how to pull Ds's passion topics into the yearly content--I knew there were more ways for him to pursue those areas but couldn't quite find them. As usual you brought a practical eye to the matter and found some great solutions. I agree that chemistry and physics may be more difficult and likely too complex for this level of study, but we will take it one year at a time I guess and see where we are when we get there. I had planned to do the sciences in the WTM order again (we did them that way in grades 1-4) so they will fall into the later years anyway.

 

As for my own understanding of the issues and goals I wish to pursue in addition to content, you are correct when you (seemingly) assume that I am not a scientist. I am more of a literature and language person. My own degree is in English literature. I do hope that my critical thinking and logic are up to snuff, but my knowledge of the scientific method is limited to what I learned in high school and college labs. I have never designed or executed my own experiment. I do however have a lot of respect for scientists and their expertise! I did not intend in any way to denigrate their knowledge, nor to call them idiots. My brother-in-law is a research scientist, and has frequently talked at length about his field and the rigors of the peer review process, which has really enlightened me and helped me to understand some of the hurdles scientific research faces.

 

My goals were predicated on some issues specific to our family. Ds, as I mentioned, has become interested in cryptozoology, specifically Bigfoot. He is watching "mystery" type documentaries, full of Bigfoot "experts" who claim to be able to discuss the family structures and societal norms of Bigfoots, and I can see that Ds is not critically examining the claims of these experts. This is one reason that I feel we need to start looking into the methods and processes of real scientists--to build a picture of what real science is. I also want to help him to begin to develop the ability to read and reconcile different sources that may not agree--for example evolution and intelligent design texts. I want him to be able to read both sides and to understand which is good science and which is not. You are correct when you state that it is absurd to think he could evaluate scientific studies--frankly, I doubt I have the detailed knowledge to evaluate them myself! LOL. That was not my intent. But I do believe he is old enough to begin reading science books and texts at his own level and examining them for points of agreement and disagreement and then discussing why scientists might disagree.

 

Again, I have much respect for scientists and the passion and rigor they bring to their work. And yes, I am aware that the media can simplify and twist science for ratings. Reading newspapers and science magazines is a great suggestion. Any specific publications you might recommend, considering his interests?

 

Thank you for your suggestions. I will think about what you have said regarding waiting until ds is older to ask these types of questions.

[lewelma]

I do however have a lot of respect for scientists and their expertise! I did not intend in any way to denigrate their knowledge, nor to call them idiots.

 

Oh dear. I did not mean that *you* thought scientists were idiots, but that the media typically does. Yikes. Sorry about that.

 

Also, I clearly read more into your post than you intended. After re-reading, I think you meant that you want to teach your son to evaluate the claims of the *media* about science, rather than asking him to evaluate the claims of *scientists*. Should have asked rather than jumping on my very high horse. Very very sorry.

 

So, how do you go about teaching a student to evaluate the claims of the media? and to differentiate between science and pseudoscience? What great questions. They will take me a bit of time to think about and answer. So I'm going to post my apology first. :001_smile:

 

Ruth in NZ

[lewelma]

1. 1. What is science? What are the limits, if any, of science. What questions can it answer and which can it not? Why? Ds has begun to be interested in cryptozoology, which is leading to discussions about what science can and cannot do, for example.
    
   2. What is a scientist? How do they work? What are their goals? (Yes I realize that question is huge and each scientist will answer it differently!). What is their context--why do they choose the questions they do, and not others? I'm thinking lots of scientist biographies, and series like Scientists in the Field. What are their biases and presuppositions? How might these things influence the scientist? Why do scientists in the same field disagree on topics?
    
   3. How do we evaluate scientific claims? (Logic, understanding methods, critical thinking, etc.)

I think that it is easier to discuss these esoteric issues with a specific example, which is why I use newspapers and magazines. But I think that you could very effectively use the Bigfoot documentaries. I would suggest that you record a few, and tell your ds that you want to study it from the point of view of a scientist, not just from the point of view of entertainment. Have him watch it all the way through once to satisfy the “fun†and curious factor that these docos promote. Then, for the second viewing on a different day, set his expectations that you will be stopping the documentary every 5 minutes or so and spending 10 minutes analyzing the “science.†Keep a notebook and write down the scientific methodological issues that you discuss, and give examples from the documentary. Put different issues on different pages, so that you can add to each issue later. Make it a cold hard study. Plan to cover a documentary in 2 to 4 sittings depending on how far it leads you to discuss issues. Go look something up on the Internet in the middle of watching the doco. At the end of the study of the doco, have him do a presentation about the errors in science that you and he uncovered. Make it a “skeptics†thing. Make it a real “win†to uncover 3 or even 4 logical fallacies. Make finding errors in the doco what becomes “cool†rather than the belief in bigfoot. Indoctrinate him into the wonderful club of scientists who are skeptical of pseudoscience. You can do this same kind of study with the aliens documentaries.

 

You can also discuss the scientific issues about bigfoot. Discuss “Occam's razor.†Discuss small population sizes and inbreeding (he like gorillas so should know about this.) Discuss that there has only been 1 unknown large mammal “discovered†in the last 30 years (or some such), and the likelihood of one living in population areas is basically zero. Discuss where on the evolutionary tree this organism is. Is it human? If so, which one? Research, dig, and study. Don't take an entertainment “doco†at face value.

 

Next, watch some scientific documentaries, like David Attenborough. Go and verify the material in the middle of the doco. Study, analyze, and compare the difference between a real scientific doco and a edutainment doco. Note the difference in language. You will find hype language in the bigfoot and alien docos, but not in the Attenborough one. Write down the language in your notebook, actual examples in quotations. Do a “hunt†for exaggeration and hype. Compare. This would be like literary analysis. How do the writers of the bigfoot docos create the excitement and hype? Specifically, how?

 

For both types of docos, write down the names of the “scientists†and afterwards go look them up on the Internet. Real scientists publish in peer-reviewed journals, pseudo-scientists don't. Look up which journals are peer reviewed. Study what it means to be peer reviewed. Talk about how pseudo-scientists might publish in pseudoscience magazines, but could not get their work into a true scientific peer reviewed journal, because they would not get accepted. Discuss the scientific societies and how you gain entrance.

 

What is pseudoscience vs science? You need to explain why it is so important to differentiate between the two. One is only masquerading as science the other is real. Science is based on evidence – data collection, replication, controls, analysis, identifying assumptions, and finally conclusions. Pseudoscience is myth and belief dressed up in scientific terminology without the objective data collection with replications and control. Pick a pseudoscience he is not wedded to and study it. Do magnets in water make it healthier? Do wearing crystals around your neck protect you from evil? Go on the Internet and study it. Where is the evidence? What is the scientific concepts and language that it is cloaked in? What words do they use to make it seem like science? Why is it not science? How would you design a scientific study to prove it? Have these studies been done?

 

Use medicine as a great example. Talk about the fact that most medicines come from plant based compounds that have been isolated. Discuss aspirin. But then discuss the placebo effect. Go to a natural food store and into the alternative medicine section. Read the ingredients and write down the active ingredients. Go and look them up on the Internet. Are they proved effective or are they more likely placebo effects? How to scientists choose which possible plant or alternative medicine to research. They want the one that is most likely to actually be effective when studyied with objective experimentation. They don't want to waste their time or money. Discuss how bringing a medicine to market takes a decade and a few million dollars. They would not waste their time on something that is not likely to work! How do they choose? They choose the compound most likely to have a demonstrate-able effect. Discuss that if he cannot discern the difference between real and fake, he is likely to waste a LOT of money. You could even go back historically and research some of the old “medicines†that we now know were hoaxes. Why were people taken in? Radium was very popular during the atomic age to put in all sorts of things. Why did people buy stuff that was actually really bad for them? How were they fooled? In hindsight it is obvious, but at the time it was not. How can you extrapolate this to current products and their claims?

 

Well, this has been a bit of a stream of consciousness, and now I am off for dinner.

 

Hope this is helpful,

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

Oh, magazines to consider are: Science illustrated, Odyssey, and National Geographic

[Susie in CA]

Ruth,

 

Once again a fantastic post! This is something that might work to create some interest here as well. Thanks so much for taking the time.

 

Susie

 

 

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I think that it is easier to discuss these esoteric issues with a specific example, which is why I use newspapers and magazines. But I think that you could very effectively use the Bigfoot documentaries. I would suggest that you record a few, and tell your ds that you want to study it from the point of view of a scientist, not just from the point of view of entertainment. Have him watch it all the way through once to satisfy the “fun†and curious factor that these docos promote. Then, for the second viewing on a different day, set his expectations that you will be stopping the documentary every 5 minutes or so and spending 10 minutes analyzing the “science.†Keep a notebook and write down the scientific methodological issues that you discuss, and give examples from the documentary. Put different issues on different pages, so that you can add to each issue later. Make it a cold hard study. Plan to cover a documentary in 2 to 4 sittings depending on how far it leads you to discuss issues. Go look something up on the Internet in the middle of watching the doco. At the end of the study of the doco, have him do a presentation about the errors in science that you and he uncovered. Make it a “skeptics†thing. Make it a real “win†to uncover 3 or even 4 logical fallacies. Make finding errors in the doco what becomes “cool†rather than the belief in bigfoot. Indoctrinate him into the wonderful club of scientists who are skeptical of pseudoscience. You can do this same kind of study with the aliens documentaries.

 

You can also discuss the scientific issues about bigfoot. Discuss “Occam's razor.†Discuss small population sizes and inbreeding (he like gorillas so should know about this.) Discuss that there has only been 1 unknown large mammal “discovered†in the last 30 years (or some such), and the likelihood of one living in population areas is basically zero. Discuss where on the evolutionary tree this organism is. Is it human? If so, which one? Research, dig, and study. Don't take an entertainment “doco†at face value.

 

Next, watch some scientific documentaries, like David Attenborough. Go and verify the material in the middle of the doco. Study, analyze, and compare the difference between a real scientific doco and a edutainment doco. Note the difference in language. You will find hype language in the bigfoot and alien docos, but not in the Attenborough one. Write down the language in your notebook, actual examples in quotations. Do a “hunt†for exaggeration and hype. Compare. This would be like literary analysis. How do the writers of the bigfoot docos create the excitement and hype? Specifically, how?

 

For both types of docos, write down the names of the “scientists†and afterwards go look them up on the Internet. Real scientists publish in peer-reviewed journals, pseudo-scientists don't. Look up which journals are peer reviewed. Study what it means to be peer reviewed. Talk about how pseudo-scientists might publish in pseudoscience magazines, but could not get their work into a true scientific peer reviewed journal, because they would not get accepted. Discuss the scientific societies and how you gain entrance.

 

What is pseudoscience vs science? You need to explain why it is so important to differentiate between the two. One is only masquerading as science the other is real. Science is based on evidence – data collection, replication, controls, analysis, identifying assumptions, and finally conclusions. Pseudoscience is myth and belief dressed up in scientific terminology without the objective data collection with replications and control. Pick a pseudoscience he is not wedded to and study it. Do magnets in water make it healthier? Do wearing crystals around your neck protect you from evil? Go on the Internet and study it. Where is the evidence? What is the scientific concepts and language that it is cloaked in? What words do they use to make it seem like science? Why is it not science? How would you design a scientific study to prove it? Have these studies been done?

 

Use medicine as a great example. Talk about the fact that most medicines come from plant based compounds that have been isolated. Discuss aspirin. But then discuss the placebo effect. Go to a natural food store and into the alternative medicine section. Read the ingredients and write down the active ingredients. Go and look them up on the Internet. Are they proved effective or are they more likely placebo effects? How to scientists choose which possible plant or alternative medicine to research. They want the one that is most likely to actually be effective when studyied with objective experimentation. They don't want to waste their time or money. Discuss how bringing a medicine to market takes a decade and a few million dollars. They would not waste their time on something that is not likely to work! How do they choose? They choose the compound most likely to have a demonstrate-able effect. Discuss that if he cannot discern the difference between real and fake, he is likely to waste a LOT of money. You could even go back historically and research some of the old “medicines†that we now know were hoaxes. Why were people taken in? Radium was very popular during the atomic age to put in all sorts of things. Why did people buy stuff that was actually really bad for them? How were they fooled? In hindsight it is obvious, but at the time it was not. How can you extrapolate this to current products and their claims?

 

Well, this has been a bit of a stream of consciousness, and now I am off for dinner.

 

Hope this is helpful,

 

Ruth in NZ

 

 

Oh, magazines to consider are: Science illustrated, Odyssey, and National Geographic

[Trillian]

Yes, I love this idea. DS wants to watch this Bigfoot show and I've been putting him off; I spend a lot of time just pointing out the sensationalism from the commercials. It never occurred to me to "study" it. He'll love it! Thanks.

[Jayne J]

Thank you Ruth for your response! I have tried to point out inconsistencies in the shows, but sitting down and really, methodically, carefully studying the show clip by clip is a great idea--especially the note taking aspect. I get so impatient with the shows that I tend resort to frequent snorts--your way seems more productive. LOL.

 

We are in the midst of festivities here so I don't have as much time to really think and respond very thoroughly, but I wanted to pop in and say thanks!

[mom31257]

:lurk5: I've wasn't picky with dd because she was my literature/history child whose only favorite topic in science has been genetics. Ds is very different and is talking engineering or doctor as a future career. I will need to step it up for him.