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Katy

Can someone both have ASD and be a pathological liar?

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Here's the thing: the way to be dx'd with aspergers is a list of symptoms. If you have those symptoms and DONT have something else that could explain them, you have aspergers. But sometimes people actually have something else but are just labeled aspergers. Sometimes they have aspergers and something else. the things that are causing the problems relating might be totally different in different people - food allergies, brain trauma, seizures, or genetics

 

People who have textbook aspergers and nothing else are not pathological liars. If she is a pathological liar, she definitely has something other than aspergers, but my also qualify as having aspergers.

 

she definitely qualifies as someone i woudlnt want to spend much time with.

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Pathological liars are usually narcissists. They lie to get a reaction and to manipulate. People with ASDs can't manipulate like that.

 

And no, the shooter doesn't have ASD, either, because you can't harm A to hurt B and have an ASD. Can't. You could puzzle out why someone might do it, after a while, but it would be wholly unnatural and foreign. He was an emotionally disturbed kid who got the label du jour.

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I think saying an ASD kids can't "anything" is impossible. ASD kids are all different. There are a lot of criteria to fit an ASD diagnosis and kids don't have to have them all, just a certain number in different areas. Aspergers as a diagnosis is going away, but it is broad and there is nothing that prevents an aspie from lying.

 

My ASD kid has a great (if quirky) sense of humor and learned to lie in elementary school, probably by first grade. He certainly wasn't a pathological liar, just a normal kid trying to stay out of trouble :). I've never known an Aspie that was a pathological liar, but I do know aspies who lie a lot.

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Sorry, I wasn't saying that NO ONE with an ASD can be a pathological liar. I'm just saying that the motive behind lying is usually manipulation, and that can't be an ASD motive. If the person is lying to manipulate, they aren't on the AS.

 

Aspies can understand what person A knows that person B doesn't, which people farther down on the spectrum can't figure out. They do lie to get out of trouble. Often, they aren't terribly good at it.

 

But they don't do attention-seeking lying, and they don't lie for self-aggrandizement or to get pity and the like the way most pathological liars do.

 

My Asperger's uncle has a great deadpan sense of humor, which is kind of "lying," but it's not the same. :)

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My son with aspie diagnosis regularly lies to avoid trouble or get out of doing something he doesn't want to do. However he has never in his life, to my knowledge, deliberately hurt anybody.

Just my non scientific sample of one, though. I wouldn't venture to say anything definite about the person in the OP.

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First, asperger's is definately the "sexy" diagnosis of the moment. I know some people who think they have it. Sigh.

Second, my high functioning autistic dd told a lie to keep from getting in trouble for taking a cookie once. She is a terrible liar. To my knowledge she never tried it again. She definately doesn't tell attention seeking or manipulative lies. It is beyond her.

We were in a sunday school lesson and were asking the kids to tell us how they could keep their lights shining ( figuratively). The kids would come to the front of the room and place a battery operated light and share a good deed they do to keep their lights shining. When my dd came up and was asked how she could keep her light shining she said she would change the batteries if they went out. Literal thinking to the max.

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My son with aspie diagnosis regularly lies to avoid trouble or get out of doing something he doesn't want to do. However he has never in his life, to my knowledge, deliberately hurt anybody.

Just my non scientific sample of one, though. I wouldn't venture to say anything definite about the person in the OP.

 

My aspie is the same. I little lie:

 

Me: Did you brush your teeth?

 

Him: Yes.

 

Me (seeing the moss growing on the surface): No you didn't.

 

He doesn't have a violent bone in his body. Displays of anger make him significantly uncomfortable. He's never had a tantrum in his life. A sharp or fresh word - yes.

 

My understanding is that Lanza was on the anti-psychotic Fanapt which is typically given to schizophrenics, so, yeah, this wasn't about being ASD.

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Pathological liars, narcissists, sociopaths - they all fall under the the Axis 2 umbrella of "personality disorders".

 

Autism spectrum disorders fall under... wait for it... Autism spectrum disorders.

 

The former is exactly what it says: a disorder of someone's personality. Anything from a 'crack' that can be mended (people who have been abused may fall into this category) to someone who is completely, utterly broken (mentally) from society's point of view. These folks will never be 'fixed' by medication or therapy; they are simply not on the same operational plane as the rest of the humans they are walking amongst.

 

ASD folks are, to the best of modern medicine's knowledge, simply wired differently. Their personalities et al are completely intact (I'm speaking in Jungian terms), they have emotional responses to stimuli (albeit sometimes over the top or completely reserved and/or withdrawn), and they form relationships. Unfortunately, ASD folks are often portrayed in the media as completely incommunicative people unable to interact on any level. While there is a very small subset of people who are so withdrawn that they are unable to communicate in any manner (verbal, pictures, computer, etc.), and are so subject to sensory overload that interaction is all but impossible, the VAST majority of ASD folks *are* able to communicate in some manner and *do* make adjustments for their sensory issues.

 

I think it would be a wonderful thing if the media would step up and do a NON sensationalist piece about the actual life of an ASD person. Better yet - many ASD people. Sure, show the bullying. But also show the desire to just fit in, just fade into the walls and go about one's day like everyone else seems to be able to do. People with severe personality disorders have no problems with this - other people's opinions of them mean nothing. There is a distinct difference, and I think it would be a good thing for the public to see.

 

I have to agree with ASD being the "diagnosis du jour". The other thing I wish would occur is that more people would spend some of their mindless internet browsing time just looking at pictures of various genetic conditions. Most "well known" genetic conditions have very distinct physical traits. After you've seen a few pictures, you can recognize things as you walk down the street and watch the TV. I'm not saying that people have this condition or that, but people carry traits all of the time and don't even know it. I actually met someone once with Williams Syndrome. And he really did look just like an Elf. People want to jump to the Dx du jour; they never stop to think about genetics.

 

 

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She will need to find a new dx for herself soon since "Aspergers" is being removed from the forthcoming DSM V.

 

Aspergers is being dropped in favor of the term "Autism Spectrum Disorder". Most people with ASD are very literal. But my son, who is more severely autistic, has lied to me on occasion. But his thinking and ability is pretty simple. "Did you do X?". "No" or "I did not do that". Chances are, based on what you said, the person in question for you has some type of personality disorder.

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My ASD son found out about lying pretty late in the game compared to other kids. He has only used it to get out of trouble. My husband is positive that I'm diagnosable. I can't imagine wanting to lie for any other reason than to hide something I'd done wrong or not hurt someone's feelings. In fact, I'm most often accused of the opposite--being way too truthful. my half-sister, who is diagnosed, has the same issue.

 

In my experience, yes, people on the spectrum can lie, but it's very unlikely to be the "pathological" kind who lies for attention.

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Sorry, I wasn't saying that NO ONE with an ASD can be a pathological liar. I'm just saying that the motive behind lying is usually manipulation, and that can't be an ASD motive. If the person is lying to manipulate, they aren't on the AS. …

 

Not contradicting you, but adding, some people lie to appear "normal".

 

… But also show the desire to just fit in, just fade into the walls and go about one's day like everyone else seems to be able to do. …

 

This!

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Pathological liars are usually narcissists. They lie to get a reaction and to manipulate. People with ASDs can't manipulate like that.

 

And no, the shooter doesn't have ASD, either, because you can't harm A to hurt B and have an ASD. Can't. You could puzzle out why someone might do it, after a while, but it would be wholly unnatural and foreign. He was an emotionally disturbed kid who got the label du jour.

Actually there is quite a long history of ASD and the ability to lie

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Asperger's is real.  Very real.  The psychiatry industry did a massive disservice to people by watering down the Asperger's diagnosis to an inaccurate broad label of autism. 

 

To call Asperger's "diagnosis of the day" is just as inane as to dismiss ADHD as non-existent.  Trying to hold my temper here. 

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Asperger's is real.  Very real.  The psychiatry industry did a massive disservice to people by watering down the Asperger's diagnosis to an inaccurate broad label of autism. 

 

To call Asperger's "diagnosis of the day" is just as inane as to dismiss ADHD as non-existent.  Trying to hold my temper here. 

 

This is a super old thread that was revived under dubious circumstances!

 

(((Orthodox)))

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This is a super old thread that was revived under dubious circumstances!

 

(((Orthodox)))

 

 

Oops.  Fell for it, didn't I ?! 

 

(I see we were visited by a poseur.)

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