Help me with my language arts program

[Blessed with seven]

Okay, I want to use and am using AAR and AAS, that is for sure. I need a LA program for a 1st and 3rd grader and also a beginning/writing grammar program for 5th and 6th. I need it to be fairly simple to use as I just am not good at grammar/writing/composition. I also need it doable, actively teaching 5 right now.

 

Getting bogged down with all the options.

 

I had thought about going with Saxon Grammar 5 (all in one) for my older kids, they are also doing IEW's Spelling (I had also thought about Easy Grammar and IEW SWI for my older ones but.....then I have to do Vocabulary etc...trying to keep it as easy as possible without adding a ton of different programs)

 

I had also thought about doing FFL and WWE with the younger ones. Not sure why I started looking at other options..ha!

 

 

 

Kim

[Blessed with seven]

See....you won't be dodging tomatoes from me, for sure!I was thinking FFL and WWE but maybe just WWE? I would love something that has copywork and narration type stuff, for my 9 year old.

 

Thanks for your input. I have seven children, my oldest just got married and moved a few months ago, my 17 year old does everything on her own so my younger 5 all need help in grammar/writing mainly.

 

My youngest 3 are 9 (just turned yesterday), 7 and 4 :), daughter, son, son.

[Blessed with seven]

Okay...so in thinking about this more, I am not sure diagramming is going to work for my older son, 14. I am just tired of trying to figure out language, mainly for my 12 and 14 year olds. I don't want to have one book for vocab, one for spelling, one for grammar, something for composition BUT...I do not understand diagramming myself and really am not sure I feel it is necessary.

 

Would love some more ideas for a "language arts program" self instructing for the most part as LA is not my strong area at all!

[TarynB]

For your older (12 and 14 year old) kids, I don't see a problem with having separate books that cover the different elements of "language arts", especially if you want them to be working semi-independently and using quality materials. Also, IMO, older kids don't need spelling as a separate subject; instead, focus on vocabulary and ensure correct spelling of the vocab words as they go.

 

Programs that I'm familiar with and would recommend for your older kids are:

 

Grammar: Hake as mentioned above, which does include diagramming if you decide you want it. My DS uses it and it is going very well for him. Very thorough, more than enough review, very solid - yet relatively short lessons. Each lesson takes us about 15-20 minutes and we do 3 lessons/week.

 

Composition: WWS or Excellence in Writing's Student Writing Intensive (SWI) B -- The SWI can be pricey but I think definitely worth it, especially since you can use it for multiple kids as they get to the right age. There's a link in my signature. We did WWE and will be starting WWS next year (6th grade) but SWI has been wonderful for my previously-writing-phobic DS.

 

Vocabulary: Several independent workbook choices out there. My DS really likes Wordly Wise - link in my signature. Or use Wordly Wise's online program. Or look at Vocabulary from Classical Roots, which is recommended in 3rd edition of WTM.

 

Hope that gives you some ideas!

[Blessed with seven]

Okay..so my question is this, if you use SWI B, I have this on vhs, and Wordly Wise, do you need to do Hake Grammar or just do Easy Grammar?

[TarynB]

Okay..so my question is this, if you use SWI B, I have this on vhs, and Wordly Wise, do you need to do Hake Grammar or just do Easy Grammar?

 

I think you need a grammar program of some sort, because neither SWI nor Wordly Wise teach grammar, but either Hake or Easy Grammar would be excellent. (We used Easy Grammar last year. We switched to Hake only because I wanted more review of concepts than EG provides, and coverage of diagramming, which EG does not teach.) ETA: Sorry, I overlooked in your original post where you mentioned Easy Grammar. I think Easy Grammar is very solid too, it just depends on what approach you prefer. Both are great programs.

 

Another thought is that you don't have to cover all aspects of LA at the same time. If doing more than one at a time is overwhelming, there's nothing that says you can't rotate among the different areas of composition, vocab/spelling, grammar. Do one area (i.e., grammar) for a week or several weeks, then switch. I do think you want to get thorough coverage in total, though, before they hit high school.

[Blessed with seven]

I do think you want to get thorough coverage in total, though, before they hit high school.

 

Yep...I agree. Okay, soooo...one thing that is appealing about Hake is the all in one, and the constant review. I personally would NEED the constant review. But..with easy grammar it is the fact that they do NOT diagram that I like and also the preposition approach.

 

Do you feel Hake covers vocabulary well??

 

Thanks for talking through this with me!!!! It helps a ton!

[TarynB]

Yep...I agree. Okay, soooo...one thing that is appealing about Hake is the all in one, and the constant review. I personally would NEED the constant review. But..with easy grammar it is the fact that they do NOT diagram that I like and also the preposition approach.

 

Do you feel Hake covers vocabulary well??

 

Thanks for talking through this with me!!!! It helps a ton!

 

1. We don't use Hake as "all in one". We only use the grammar portion. I've looked several times at the writing booklet, and it just doesn't appeal to me compared to other composition programs. I think it is pretty dry and I feel there are better ways to teach writing. But that's just me. It might be exactly right for other students.

2. If you use Hake grammar but don't want to cover the diagramming, it is very easy to just skip those lessons and the subsequent review questions pertaining to diagramming.

3. I liked the preposition approach of Easy Grammar as well, so I hear you on that. My DS did seem to benefit from being familiar with Easy Grammar's preposition approach from last year before starting Hake this year.

4. Personally I wouldn't rely on Hake as a vocab program. It introduces only 2 new vocab words per lesson. It just isn't the focus of the program. In contrast, Wordly Wise teaches 10 new words per lesson, which is a huge difference over a school year. Also, I just asked DS, and he says even though Hake reviews the grammar concepts constantly, he doesn't think Hake reviews the vocab words as well or as thoroughly. Others may disagree though. You could always start with Hake and add a vocab program later if you feel like the vocab in Hake isn't enough.

 

Hopefully there's something useful for you in my rambling.

[Blessed with seven]

Your "rambling" and your son's input is very helpful!!! Thank You! So..if I use EAsy Grammar, Wordly Wise and SWI B I would be covered right? I am going to do literature either through Sonlight or BF by doing a history study, I believe both of them also cover vocabulary too....

[TarynB]

Your "rambling" and your son's input is very helpful!!! Thank You! So..if I use EAsy Grammar, Wordly Wise and SWI B I would be covered right? I am going to do literature either through Sonlight or BF by doing a history study, I believe both of them also cover vocabulary too....

 

Your plan - with the added lit you mentioned - sounds very thorough and fabulous to me! Glad it was helpful. Best of luck!

[Blessed with seven]

Thank you!!

[TarynB]

Just one more thought . . . if you want more grammar review that goes with Easy Grammar, you might consider adding the companion book Daily Grams. It is part of the same program as Easy Grammar and they work together. I didn't think of it until now. Although, it would be another book to add to your list . . . maybe worth considering though.

[Blessed with seven]

Yep...great idea. I don't mind one more workbook, I do want to make sure they get lots of review, especially with grammar :) Thank you!

[Blessed with seven]

Okay..here I am again...geesh. I decided to go with HAKE Grammar because I wanted easier and all in one. I do not like the looks of it and think it would be a disaster for the two children I am wanting to do it with.

 

I have one more question.... trying to decide between Analytical Grammar, since she has the DVD's to go with it now or Easy Grammar. This is hard because it is for a son who really is reluctant and writing and grammar etc.. He has a hard time concentrating and I have let some things slide but we now NEED to get moving but having him sit down and do HAKE would be a disaster and for my daughter. Not for sure just me looking at it sort of made me want to scream..ha! I really need things simply explained and something we can start out a bit slow etc..

 

I had actually thought about Junior AG because she has DVD's for those. I also thought about Writing Strands, looked at a sample and found his humor funny and would fit my kids well but...again, I am not proficient in this area at all so..need lots of good instructions, preferrable stuff written to the children etc..

 

Why is this so hard, too many components to a good LA area, children who are not at grade level in the area of "writing and grammar" , which I don't really care about because those things can be learned, we have time....ALSO...an area I lack much confidence in teaching!!!

[Murrayshire]

Okay..here I am again...geesh. I decided to go with HAKE Grammar because I wanted easier and all in one. I do not like the looks of it and think it would be a disaster for the two children I am wanting to do it with.

 

I have one more question.... trying to decide between Analytical Grammar, since she has the DVD's to go with it now or Easy Grammar. This is hard because it is for a son who really is reluctant and writing and grammar etc.. He has a hard time concentrating and I have let some things slide but we now NEED to get moving but having him sit down and do HAKE would be a disaster and for my daughter. Not for sure just me looking at it sort of made me want to scream..ha! I really need things simply explained and something we can start out a bit slow etc..

 

I had actually thought about Junior AG because she has DVD's for those. I also thought about Writing Strands, looked at a sample and found his humor funny and would fit my kids well but...again, I am not proficient in this area at all so..need lots of good instructions, preferrable stuff written to the children etc..

 

Why is this so hard, too many components to a good LA area, children who are not at grade level in the area of "writing and grammar" , which I don't really care about because those things can be learned, we have time....ALSO...an area I lack much confidence in teaching!!!

 

 

 

We use this for my 7th grader's LA:

 

Analytical Grammar w/DVD

Lightning Lit 7--Literature, literary terms, poetry, and vocabulary..

Megawords--keeps spelling & decoding rules fresh in her head.

Essentials in Writing 7 w/DVD

 

Analytical Grammar.....She started season 1 in August.....and we are getting ready to start season 2. It's designed to just do 1 season a year....but I want her to complete all three seasons before 9th grade. She will complete season 3 for 8th grade. Anyway, my dd is using the DVDs with it and it has been wonderful. She understands everything she has been taught. She can parse and diagram like you wouldn't believe! It is worth the cost and you can always pass it down to other dc.

 

Lightning Lit 7 this year. She enjoys it and will use LL8 for 8th grade. She does this independently and I just check that she is has done it correctly.....She gets her vocabulary practice here and in her sonlight readers so we don't do a workbook.

 

Essentials in Writing 7 with the DVD lessons. My dd seems to like the teacher and doesn't seem bored with it. She has had a few gaps filled in from what she didn't learn in public school.....We may try WWS for the rest of the year since she will be done with EIW early spring. Depending on how well she does with WWS will determine if we do EIW8 for next school year.

 

Even though this is not a full complete all in one program, it works for my dd. I feel that her language arts is more complete than if I purchased an all in one package. I just make sure to schedule lengthy lessons on different days so to not overwhelm her. She has LA completed and understood in a couple hours each day. Not too bad!

 

 

Oh and we used Hake Grammar (just the grammar portion) for 6th grade and my dd was over it! We use Saxon Math so using Hake Grammar also, was the pits to her. She finished it but she doesn't remember as much as she does with AG.

Good Luck!

[stm4him]

I use (or plan to use) the following:

 

Phonics/Spelling:

-YesPhonics (which is based on The Writing Road to Reading and easier to do with mulitple levels than AAS/AAR) from PreK-3...I add in the rule cards from SWR

-When they finish this in 3rd grade they can use Spell to Write and Read cds to go through a more extensive spelling list and then check it with the WISE Guide or the AlphaList for proper markings

-In 4th-6th I would use Spelling Plus as laid out in CC's Essentials program (it has the markings and is laid out by the week and level....I would use the Dictation Resource Book with it)

 

Writing:

-YesPhonics for handwriting before 1st (manuscript like that in WRTR)

-PreScripts (from CC) afterwards for cursive copywork

-IEW starting in 2nd grade, done at Essentials in 4th-6th as well

 

Grammar:

-Dictation Resource Book has a great grammar section I will use with all my kiddos from 1st-6th grade

-Then I would use Essentials for 4th-6th

 

Reading:

-Bob Books followed by McGuffey Readers for oral reading

-Literature terms from Teaching the Classics can be done as a group doing a few words a week

-McCall Harby and McCall Crabbs books for comprehension lessons and testing, have them keep a chart like the one in the answer keys

-List of literature books by grade level from WRTR and Veritas Press (use McCall books to figure out what books are appropriate as they progress, reading levels can be found at scholastic's website....the book wizard)

-After they finish a book they write a narration and draw a picture as described in WTM......you can guide them with questions that pertain to the literature terms you are using....Teaching the Classics and WTM have great questions they can write on for literature analysis

 

The nice thing about Essentials is that it keeps your 4th-6th graders together on the same writing assignments and at least part of their grammar assignments. The bulk of the weekly teaching is done in class while little ones are being watched and you get to sit in on it. You can buy the flashcards or audio cd for grammar memory work for the younger ones if you don't want to join the morning Foundations program. I teach the literature terms all together and then they read and write their narrations separately. All they do with me is read me a McGuffey lesson and take their McCall test (3 minutes) and we fill out the chart quickly that goes with the passage. IEW is usually pretty quick and they are getting more and more independent with it. They do copywork alone and I just help the little ones with their letters or strokes for a few minutes each day when they are first learning. For phonics we all watch the video and then they do coloring pages alone or a worksheet or spelling list or phonogram quiz with me. In 4th-6th I will have to dictate 5 sentences a day to each and a spelling list twice a week and that should be it. They can work on trouble words alone. Grammar takes half an hour for the Dictation Resource Book and next year I plan to help them with Essentials homework while the littles watch the phonics video.

 

For the Dictation Resource Book I divided the lessons into 24 weeks and we do 5 different kinds of lessons each week:

 

Day 1- Parts of Speech (from our CC memory work and DRB to add more depth)

Day 2- Capitalization, Punctuation, and Usage or Quotations Marks and Dialogue

Day 3- Homophones, Word Roots (Greek and Latin), and Word Building (prefixes and suffixes)

Day 4- Forms (outlining, letter writing, bibliographies, journaling)

Day 5- Sentence Rewriting and Editing practice

 

(The days can be done in any order. All of it comes from the DRB except the CC memory work, the journaling, and the editing. I bought the homophones book and we do them on the whiteboard. The editing comes from the Essentials program.)

 

If you want to see how I broke this down by the week using that one cheap book (which we will repeat yearly) then I can get you a link. We just do the exercises on whiteboards together except for the sentence rewriting and forms, which I keep. I can also show you how I broke down the Teaching the Classics terms if you want.....

[TarynB]

Okay..here I am again...geesh. I decided to go with HAKE Grammar because I wanted easier and all in one. I do not like the looks of it and think it would be a disaster for the two children I am wanting to do it with.

 

I have one more question.... trying to decide between Analytical Grammar, since she has the DVD's to go with it now or Easy Grammar. This is hard because it is for a son who really is reluctant and writing and grammar etc.. He has a hard time concentrating and I have let some things slide but we now NEED to get moving but having him sit down and do HAKE would be a disaster and for my daughter. Not for sure just me looking at it sort of made me want to scream..ha! I really need things simply explained and something we can start out a bit slow etc..

 

I had actually thought about Junior AG because she has DVD's for those. I also thought about Writing Strands, looked at a sample and found his humor funny and would fit my kids well but...again, I am not proficient in this area at all so..need lots of good instructions, preferrable stuff written to the children etc..

 

Why is this so hard, too many components to a good LA area, children who are not at grade level in the area of "writing and grammar" , which I don't really care about because those things can be learned, we have time....ALSO...an area I lack much confidence in teaching!!!

 

ETA - I remember you posting earlier. Is your latest post specifically related to middle school level? Grammar? Or grammar and writing both?

 

I think in order to help you at this point, we need to know a little more. What level of Hake are you looking at? What specifically do you not like about it and makes you want to scream?

 

I don't know of many (any?) other middle school grammar programs that fit all your requirements that are more gentle, simple, and thorough, that also provide instruction written to the student with systematic progression, short lessons, and review. Maybe you tried to jump in at too high of a level? Maybe you're searching for something that will be difficult if not impossible to attain with all those requirements. Something's gotta give. But I really hope someone else will chime in with a suggestion.

 

Did you say earlier you already own Easy Grammar and IEW's SWI? Have you tried them? What worked and didn't work for your kids with those? (Notice, I didn't ask if *you* *liked* them, but what worked/didn't for your kids, LOL.)

 

Forgive me, but you seem highly overwhelmed. Perhaps you should give your kids a chance with what you already own. At my house, if my attitude is encouraging and optimistic, I have found that it works wonders, regardless of the curriculum choice. Please don't take that the wrong way, I'm just picking up a wee bit of panic in your posts. :grouphug:

[Blessed with seven]

Thank you for your posts. I am needing a beginning writing and grammar program for both kids, middle school because we have done no formal grammar or writing. So...I do have SWI B and TWSS from IEW. I freeze, I think, because I don't have the slightest clue about grading their writing. What is Essentials? I don't think I have heard of that? I have Easy Grammar Plus also...

 

I don't think an "all in one" like Hake 5 would work, just don't..... But..we have some "catching up" to do so I don't want to start with a workbook series, have to go back a grade and be playing catch up. I know with Grammar and Writing there are programs that we can do now and they will be good to go.