Fine Arts Rant - Sorry...

[EricaB]

I have just read a listening list from another website that had scheduled works for 6-12 year olds. I can't help but to rant bit and hopefully add to your fine arts appreciation agendas.

 

First, music appreciation should go beyond Western Civilizations. When ever you go on a historical journey, or visit geographical regions within your studies outside of western civilizations, explore the music, art and food associated with that area. Please don't limit your kiddos to ONLY classical music.

 

Second, this particular list didn't exactly include ANY programmatic music like Peter and Wolf, or educational music such as Young People's Guide to the Orchestra. We want our DC to appreciate music and have fun with it, especially in the earliest years. My DS was singing the opening to Beethoven's 5th the other day in the car. How? Well, he simply picked it up from Disney's Little Einstein's, an incredible art/music theory and history program for he little ones. He doesn't remember that it was Beethoven, when he lived or that he was one of the greatest composers ever to put notes on a page, but the music is in his head for later conversations.

 

Sorry for the rant........

 

One last thing:

Take advantage of your community resources with your art, music and food appreciation. Universities are the best place to start. For instance, find a percussion professor that will give you a graduate student for the afternoon to teach your DC about ethnic percussion instruments. Let them touch, play and hear these instruments. University concerts are typically free, so check it out.

 

OK, now I am done.

 

Respectfully,

Erica

[FO4UR]

:iagree:......and might I add.......

 

Teaching ONLY about composer's lives and listening to their music is like.......doing a unit study on Shakespeare with no intention of actually learning how to READ the English language! Yes, there is an aesthetic experience to be had in just the sounds of the language and "getting to know" the historical character is certainly fun...BUT, what does it really mean if you don't understand the language????

 

Along with all of your apprec. studies, teach music theory and ear training!:001_smile: You just cannot fully appreciate what you don't know!!!

 

My generation did NOT grow up being taught the basics in music:glare:, and I have NOT found any curricula that meets my standards for parents who have no background yet want to teach their own dc.:glare:.....and this is why I need to write a book LOL!

[Aletheia Academy]

:bigear: Yes, I plan to follow the suggestions from "another website" for music appreciation, but your point is well-taken. We do, indeed, listen to a wide variety of music- even the titles you mentioned! :-)

 

I see the suggested plan as a starting point, not an inclusive plan. You offer an important reminder that we parent-teachers are ultimately responsible for our dc's education, not somebody else's curriculum plan.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[mommaduck]

We listen to a variety of music. But if you find any lesson plans on cultural music, please post!

[Diannab]

:yeahthat: ! :) I completely agree with PP :) I would love a list that included more cultural diversity! :D

[angela in ohio]

Hmm, I guess I took the site as having a specific focus - Classical Music - which is generally understood to be Western music of a certain time period. I wouldn't expect to find other types of music incuded (I was acutally surprised by some of the later music being included.)

 

We generally teach world music as we do geography, so that there is a context. We also start teaching classical music by teaching from before Baroque. It is hard to appreciate the innovative nature of classical music without listening first to things like early church music (chant.) But I wouldn't expect a program on "Classical Music" to do either of those things.

 

We are blessed to have a parks system that features frequent performances by university and community musicians for free. :) Our symphony programs are hit or miss - they try too hard to tie into trends or state standards, and sometimes it obscures the purpose (this year's school series is on environmentalism, for example, and they always seem to play a piece from a Harry Potter movie.) We did hear one great piece, "The Composer is Dead," last year, which was so very good.

[Wendi]

I just finished listening to a series of lectures on CD that was VERY helpful. It's called "Masterpieces of Western Music" from the Modern Scholar series. I got it from my library. It might be overwhelming for someone with NO knowledge of classical music at all, but for someone like me who wanted to go deeper, it was perfect. You might enjoy it.

 

Also, I'm reading a book by the composer Aaron Copland called "What to Listen for in Music".

 

Wendi

[brehon]

Hmmm...as one who majored in Music I both agree and, um, not so much disagree as perhaps have a different perspective on what you said. I'm not sure which website you're referring to; but, as Angela in Ohio said, a site dedicated to classical music is generally understood to encompass the Western tradition. [i'm differentiating between classical music - the genre - and Classical Music (or music of the Classical period - generally held to be most of the 18th century through early Beethoven)].

 

I gather a site dedicated to classical music would necessarily have to choose representative pieces which best exemplify the general characteristics of each musical era and/or which show transitions to the next era. This with well over 1000 years of music in the western canon from which to choose.

 

Now, certainly other cultures have their own classical music traditions which are definitely worth studying. (I love the music of Japanese traditional Kabuki theatre.) I don't think most people deliberately exclude non-Western traditions from their studies. As Angela said geography studies are great for introducing and studying various cultures' artistic traditions.

 

I don't know about the university in your area; but, the ones in my area (which includes a well regarded School of Music - my alma mater!) don't have free concerts. Granted, though, the fee really isn't all that much. And don't forget that those grad students will probably charge at least a nominal fee (I say this just to make everyone aware so you can plan finances accordingly.) But you're absolutely right about taking advantage of your community's artistic offerings. They're a great resource! I also agree that studying music theory really enhances understanding and appreciation of music history.

[EricaB]

I just wanted to clarify that the website that I was referring to has not been mentioned recently on this forum. It was one that I came across yesterday. I liked everything on the list, but thought it left out quite a bit that shows a child the fun and importance of music. It has some very heavy suggestions that excluded some of the kid friendly works that would really turn your DC on to music. This was my biggest concern about the list. Music appreciation and the love for music is the most important thing.

 

Yes, I realize that not all University concerts are free, but many are which is why I said "typically". They were not free at the School of Music I graduated from either, but the ticket were nominally priced. Also, if you call the music office or better yet, the department from which the concert is generated from, they will have a stash of comp. tickets. It is worth asking. Also ask about the availability of graduate students. A professor likes nothing more than their students to have hands on experience with teaching what they know. Yes, if you go to Northwestern University, there is a charge, but other schools would love to see your kiddos and many also offer free children's concerts. I just wanted to encourage people to check out what is in their area. There is so much out there for our kids to have a sensory experience that a book or CD can't provide.

 

I am blessed with a wonderful library, but ITunes is also a good resource for music in other regions. Goggle also comes up with samples of music outside of Western Civ.

 

I also agree with the theory and ear training comments. The general population, including the well educated, are lacking in simple concepts such as differentiating the low and high sounds of an orchestra, much less knowing the names of the instruments. I do feel that we, as home schoolers, do a pretty good job in this area, but we could still expand our schedules outside of the traditional orchestra. For instance, the development of the British Brass Band was the turning point of the modern brass instruments of today, but I don't know of many texts that address this, even when I was in undergrad. I carefully selected my thesis topic to address this problem. No, I don't have it published yet, but my husband keeps threatening to do so.

 

Bottom Line: Look at what you are studying in you home and just add the arts to that area. Sounds a bit like an easy to assemble commercial. Maybe someday a few of us will get together and write that book for you:D

 

Erica

[FO4UR]

So, when are you writing it? I can follow music, know a little theory and can sing back anything I hear; but like too many singers, I never had to really read music to function. I would love to learn, and I would love my kids to learn. It is one of those basic skills I think everyone should have.

 

I am writing it as I do it with my own dc:tongue_smilie:......so in about 12 years.....:confused:

 

I agree with both incoporating music aprec. into your history and global study AND studying the classical Western music progression (classical referring to the general study through all time periods). Music from other cultures isn't a part of that b/c it doesn't follow the Western conventions of music....a concept not really understood w/o a basic understanding of music theory....(SOAP BOX SMILEY:lol:).

[Nestof3]

 

You know, this is where I have to strongly disagree. There are some things in life that we do because we personally are passionate about them, or because WE choose to teach this to our children. To imply that EVERYONE needs to "know the language" is stretching. I can enjoy life quite fine without knowing the language just as I can enjoy food without being a gourmet cook. I happen to love paper crafts -- scrapbooking and making cards, stamping and such. Just because I happen to love something doesn't mean everyone else should learn to do it and appreciate it.

 

I am very careful about deciding what others SHOULD understand and be able to do. I prefer to allow individual strengths and passions prevail in some things.

[HollyinNNV]

 

First, music appreciation should go beyond Western Civilizations. When ever you go on a historical journey, or visit geographical regions within your studies outside of western civilizations, explore the music, art and food associated with that area. Please don't limit your kiddos to ONLY classical music.

 

Second, this particular list didn't exactly include ANY programmatic music like Peter and Wolf, or educational music such as Young People's Guide to the Orchestra.

One last thing:

 

 

Respectfully,

Erica

 

I found your post interesting. I am a professional musician and really don't have the strong feelings that you do. But, I do find it admirable. In honor of your cultural music appreciation, I am going to link to one of my all-time fav. u-tube videos. Do watch the entire song (isn't too long).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSYRABNbFdQ

 

When I was in college, my major required that I attend a music cultures class. It featured a different culture each semester. The one I happened to attend was Asian Cultural Music. The professor was really hard to understand and the music was sooooooooooooo boring! But, as you can see from the video, it was his choice of music that was boring-clearly not representative of all that is out there.

 

Anyways, I could go on and on because I enjoy talking about music. Instead, I'll just urge anyone listening to visit the link and ENJOY!

Holly

[FO4UR]

 

You know, this is where I have to strongly disagree. There are some things in life that we do because we personally are passionate about them, or because WE choose to teach this to our children. To imply that EVERYONE needs to "know the language" is stretching. I can enjoy life quite fine without knowing the language just as I can enjoy food without being a gourmet cook. I happen to love paper crafts -- scrapbooking and making cards, stamping and such. Just because I happen to love something doesn't mean everyone else should learn to do it and appreciate it.

 

I am very careful about deciding what others SHOULD understand and be able to do. I prefer to allow individual strengths and passions prevail in some things.

 

 

 

 

We all have our own interests and abilities, and that's fine. A person can get through life just fine without any musical training at all. I am not deciding for anyone that they SHOULD study music theory - that's a personal choice. What I am saying is that studying the lives of composers and just listening to their music doesn't provide a complete picture. One cannot fully appreciate Bach's genious without understanding counterpoint. PERIOD. One cannot understand Debussy's genious without understanding Bach. We listen and enjoy their works, but what's the difference really between them and my 2yo's random "works of art" at the piano???

 

There are many things I don't know. I can teach my children to recognize a famous painting, but I don't have the ability to teach the concepts/techniques that the artist pioneered - kwim. I can recognize that there is more to the painting than what my eyes can see.....I just haven't taken the time to study that art form. So, I will rely heavily on books/curricula from the "experts" in that area. Honestly, if my dc aren't interested in studying painting indepth - so be it, but I will give them a glimpse into the nuts and bolts of painting regardless.

 

I think sometimes parents are decieved into thinking that they are providing their children with the best in music .....when their children can't even read and understand the most basic concepts. It truly is like being read to about Shakespeare and listening to his works...enjoying them....but NEVER learning phonics,grammer, etc. Without understanding of the English language, the aesthetic experience fades with time and the child has no tools with which to take his interest further, let alone pour out his own creative thoughts. Music is the same in many ways (although I do put higher priority on learning English LOL). The basic nuts and bolts of theory and ear training are best taught young and gently, much the way many parents teach reading. Some dc will take off with a good solid foundation, some will find other interests and that is fine. Personally, I have seen FAR too many kids avoid all things music simply b/c it's a foreign language to them. I have also seen many talented musicians who are unbelievably skilled on their instrument, yet flunk out of college theory and ear training 101 (and are now bar singers.....:001_huh:.....with a natural talent that just blows me away). It's much more difficult to learn as an adult, and it's a shame to throw away an opportunity before it has time to take root. It's a CRYING shame for parents to work at giving that foundation, only to be decieved into thinking that what they are doing will prepare their kids for a *possible* future interest/vocation (or just the ability to truly *listen*)....when all the time it simply won't.

 

I didn't mean to offend anyone with my posts, and I certainly don't presume that every family needs to love music the way we do. However, for the parents who want to give a music ed but don't know how....this is my big fat opinion......of which musicians are infamous!:lol:

[sagira]

Loved it! Thanks for the link! I used to play the piano -- I played it for nine years. Never heard it quite like that -- beautiful!

 

I'm originally from Aruba, so I love being multicultural. There are 40 different nationalities in Aruba, so I grew up around modern Caribbean music like reggae, socca and calypso, Latin music, Western European music, American music, classical music, and of course Aruban music (where the piano is played in a unique way as well :)). My mom surrounded me with music from gypsy music, Russian folklore, and at the neighbors I used to listen to Chinese music, which I really appreciate too. Now my mom is into Middle Eastern music.

 

Can you tell we love music? :D

[SkateLeft]

K12 has a course called "Exploring Music" that we did a couple of years ago. It's listed as their 5th grade course, but all of my kids jumped in and had fun with it.

 

It starts out with classical composers, but then explores traditional music from different cultures around the world. We really enjoyed it, and wished there were more lessons.

[HollyinNNV]

Paula: One cannot fully appreciate Bach's genious without understanding counterpoint. PERIOD. One cannot understand Debussy's genious without understanding Bach. We listen and enjoy their works, but what's the difference really between them and my 2yo's random "works of art" at the piano???

 

 

 

What-specifically-is it about counterpoint that helps you to fully appreciate Bach's genius?

 

What-specifically-about Bach helps you understand and appreciate Debussy?

[FO4UR]

What-specifically-is it about counterpoint that helps you to fully appreciate Bach's genius?

 

What-specifically-about Bach helps you understand and appreciate Debussy?

 

 

Bach invented a system, perfected it. His music is more than putting together notes that sound good. It's precise and methodical. Debussy breaks the mold. Without that rigid system, there would be no mold to break.

[HollyinNNV]

Bach invented a system, perfected it. His music is more than putting together notes that sound good. It's precise and methodical. Debussy breaks the mold. Without that rigid system, there would be no mold to break.

 

I wasn't aware that Bach invented counterpoint. Was he the first to utilize counterpoint?

 

What mold did Debussy break? As far as I know, Debussy established no new conventions, founded no schools and wrote a pretty modest amount of work. He might have been a bold writer who used non-Western music as an influence, but I was unaware of what molds he broke. I'd be interested to learn further.

 

Holly

[DB in NJ]

I have nothing intelligent to add, but I have to say that *every* time I see the title of this thread, I see "Fire Ants Rant" :lol:

 

OK. Sorry for the interruption! :D

[FO4UR]

I wasn't aware that Bach invented counterpoint. Was he the first to utilize counterpoint?

 

What mold did Debussy break? As far as I know, Debussy established no new conventions, founded no schools and wrote a pretty modest amount of work. He might have been a bold writer who used non-Western music as an influence, but I was unaware of what molds he broke. I'd be interested to learn further.

 

Holly

 

Gradus ad Parnassum was actually written by JJ Fux. I used Bach's name b/c he is a classic example of music writing LOL. Debussy is a classic example of the impressionistic movement, which is a movement away from the standard conventions of music (according to the men of his time).

 

I don't really want to debate the influence of Bach and Debussy in Western music or prove how much I know....you can come score my old analysis projects from college if you really want LOL:tongue_smilie::lol:

 

The point I want to make is that there is a lack of theory and ear training in the music curricula I have seen....if I'm missing something, by all means give a linky:bigear: Kids need to learn how to read and write music in order to have a complete education in music. I truly don't mean that to be a devisive statement!!!:D

[HollyinNNV]

Gradus ad Parnassum was actually written by JJ Fux. I used Bach's name b/c he is a classic example of music writing LOL. Debussy is a classic example of the impressionistic movement, which is a movement away from the standard conventions of music (according to the men of his time).

 

We agree here.

 

I don't really want to debate the influence of Bach and Debussy in Western music or prove how much I know....you can come score my old analysis projects from college if you really want LOL:tongue_smilie::lol:

 

I'll take a pass on grading your analysis project. Thanks for the offer.:) But, my question is a sincere one. You said:

 

One cannot fully appreciate Bach's genious without understanding counterpoint. PERIOD.

 

I was hoping that you might want to expand upon your statement. Maybe you could make a convincing argument for further theory and ear training within the scope of music education. I may or may not agree with you. But, I was just hoping you might make a specific case for it. It is more obvious why we should listen to multicultural music-to understand the world around us. But, I'm not sure that everyone understands why a balanced music education must also include theory and ear training.

 

The point I want to make is that there is a lack of theory and ear training in the music curricula I have seen

 

I have no doubt that you are right, if by music curricula, you are referring to general music ed materials. My kids music books (piano & harp) are full of theory. String instrument books are less rife with theory. I would guess that this is because most string teachers are far more interested in the technical issues of playing the instrument, rather than theory. Of course, string students practice ear training every time they play their instruments.:)

 

 

Kids need to learn how to read and write music in order to have a complete education in music.

 

I'll go this far with you. IMHO, students who study a musical instrument need to be able to read music in order to have a complete education in music.

 

However, IMHO, children who do not study a musical instrument can learn to appreciate classical music by listening to it, studying a variety of composers, learning about different instrument families and going to a variety of concerts.

 

I guess that I have a hard time seeing music theory and ear training separate from playing an instrument. Why would I need to be able to sing a perfect fourth or write a CM chord? What is the purpose in isolation?

 

For me (and I'm weird I suppose), it is academically interesting to understand the history of music. I get a little satisfaction out of remembering what a Tristan chord is. But, it has never totally transferred over to my enjoyment of music. After you wrote about understanding Debussy, I dug out an old 20th c music book and read about him. He's a bit interesting. But, IMHO, not nearly as much as his music. I played Clair de la Lune in a concert in May and I don't believe that having read of his history would have enhanced my musical enjoyment at playing his music. Actually, I do not enjoy playing his music. It is challenging! I'd rather listen to it.

 

Course for every thing I say, there is usually an exception. My viola professor was at USC when Shostakovitch came to visit the USA. The prof told me all about how sad Shos looked and the goons that guarded him. That knowledge, along with my understanding of communist Russia, really enhanced my enjoyment of his music. If anyone out there reading has never heard Shos, listen to the beginning of this symphonic movement and tell me it doesn't sound Russian! (Bernstein conducts.)

 

 

 

But, I'm not sure that I enjoy it any more than my favorite composer, Brahms. His music surpasses history, theory and everything for me. It is simply music-the universal language. When I go to a concert, I rarely think of theory or history. I just let the music wash over me. I am more apt to think of technique than theory/history.

 

 

I truly don't mean that to be a devisive statement!!!:D

 

 

I don't think you are being divisive. We all come to this board from different perspectives, backgrounds and educations. I honestly wasn't questioning you to pester you. I just truly wanted to understand your position. And, I think it is a truly interesting question that we don't have to agree about, but I do love the conversation. I am academically interested in your passion for theory and ear training.

 

Peace,

Holly

[FO4UR]

Holly, in all respect, your home is obviously filled with music. Your dc have a rare advantage in this area. :001_smile: I played violin for 2yrs as a young child, but we had to drop my lessons (boohoo), and I've always been a wee bit envious of any talented string musician!

 

Most American kids don't have that advantage! I believe that most every child can learn to read music as easily as they learn to read English. There is a developmental progression that goes hand-in-hand with literature and history....just like English. Most kids don't even get the "phonemic awareness" level of music ed, but then are expected to jump to playing an instrument or study of broad concepts....like the scope of music history.

 

I am referring to a general music ed curriculum, and more specifically for elementary level and below. I recognize that the kids that DO have a foundation of theory recieve that in a private instrument lesson. My problem with this: playing an instrument is a complex procedure. If we can isolate the skills needed, then the child has a better chance of sticking with it and ENJOYING the lesson. Building those skills doesn't have to be drudgery....my 3yo can sing nursery tunes in solfegge...she isn't anything special (as far as that goes:tongue_smilie:)....she has just heard them sung with solfegge forever. When it's her time to start at the piano she will easily translate those solfegge tunes into her music reading. That block is already built and she can move to the next step.

 

Music theory and ear training are never completely isolated from an instrument. Learning to sing a P4 in isolation is very helpful for many reasons.....sight reading is one, "playing by ear" is yet another. I also think that the voice should be the first and foremost instrument taught.....but then again I'm probably biased:tongue_smilie:

 

String players do have the upper hand in ear training. It's possible that you and your children haven't had the same stuggles in this b/c they have heard you play forever. Speaking English is second nature when you hear it everyday from birth - kwim.

 

Music is often viewed as some mystical ability that some people just have and others don't. My hypothesis is that a person's ability is based upon their exposure to music as a child. If they are never exposed to theory and ear training, then they probably won't ever develop a serious interest in music. I like to listen to my MIL speak in Korean: it's rhythmic and complex sounding to me.....I would appreciate it much more if I actually inderstood what she was saying LOL! Music is the universal language, and a full appreciation of any language requires a bit of "phonics and grammer."

 

again....my disclaimer is that I'm an opionated musician:lol:....I recognize that not everyone agrees with me and I'm OK with that!:lol::lol::lol:

[Pongo]

We listen to a variety of music. But if you find any lesson plans on cultural music, please post!

 

This is a fun cultural music program Putumayo , my children love the Cd's.

[HollyinNNV]

Holly, in all respect, your home is obviously filled with music. Your dc have a rare advantage in this area. :001_smile: I played violin for 2yrs as a young child, but we had to drop my lessons (boohoo), and I've always been a wee bit envious of any talented string musician!

 

Most American kids don't have that advantage! I believe that most every child can learn to read music as easily as they learn to read English. There is a developmental progression that goes hand-in-hand with literature and history....just like English. Most kids don't even get the "phonemic awareness" level of music ed, but then are expected to jump to playing an instrument or study of broad concepts....like the scope of music history.

 

I am referring to a general music ed curriculum, and more specifically for elementary level and below. I recognize that the kids that DO have a foundation of theory recieve that in a private instrument lesson. My problem with this: playing an instrument is a complex procedure. If we can isolate the skills needed, then the child has a better chance of sticking with it and ENJOYING the lesson. Building those skills doesn't have to be drudgery....my 3yo can sing nursery tunes in solfegge...she isn't anything special (as far as that goes:tongue_smilie:)....she has just heard them sung with solfegge forever. When it's her time to start at the piano she will easily translate those solfegge tunes into her music reading. That block is already built and she can move to the next step.

 

Music theory and ear training are never completely isolated from an instrument. Learning to sing a P4 in isolation is very helpful for many reasons.....sight reading is one, "playing by ear" is yet another. I also think that the voice should be the first and foremost instrument taught.....but then again I'm probably biased:tongue_smilie:

 

String players do have the upper hand in ear training. It's possible that you and your children haven't had the same stuggles in this b/c they have heard you play forever. Speaking English is second nature when you hear it everyday from birth - kwim.

 

Music is often viewed as some mystical ability that some people just have and others don't. My hypothesis is that a person's ability is based upon their exposure to music as a child. If they are never exposed to theory and ear training, then they probably won't ever develop a serious interest in music. I like to listen to my MIL speak in Korean: it's rhythmic and complex sounding to me.....I would appreciate it much more if I actually inderstood what she was saying LOL! Music is the universal language, and a full appreciation of any language requires a bit of "phonics and grammer."

 

again....my disclaimer is that I'm an opionated musician:lol:....I recognize that not everyone agrees with me and I'm OK with that!:lol::lol::lol:

 

 

Hey Paula,

I think that BJU music program actually has most of what you are looking for. According to the table of contents, it includes reading music, ear training, non-Western music and programmatic music.

Holly

http://www.bjupress.com/product/031732?path=3690&samplePage=

[SoCal Sandra]

The Hollywood Bowl has a summer long children's program called Summer Sounds in which the crew of a ship named "Global Harmony" visits a different country each week and learns about the music of that country.

 

http://www.hollywoodbowl.com/tickets/summersounds.cfm

 

Last summer I took my boys to the performance of Chinese Music. The musicians played all traditional Chinese instruments--plus a cello. The performance incorporated traditional costumes, art and dance.

 

By the way, Holly, thanks for the You Tube link.