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How would you approach history & literature with high schoolers who are still in the logic/dialectic stage?


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ETA: I am not asking HOW to implement their studies; I am asking WHICH (literature-based history) PROGRAM you would recommend. Here's what I want:

 

- a literature-based history program with a Christian worldview

- for high school students who are working at logic stage

- 6th-7th grade level reading material but suitable for 9th-11th grade students

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I am looking ahead to next year, when I will likely be teaching a group of 9th-11th grade students who work below grade level. None are ready for rhetoric stage work; they are all firmly in the logic stage. (Are some people stuck in this stage permanently???) All have poor comprehension and HATE to read. They lack the ability to draw conclusions and make inferences as they read, and they have very poor vocabulary skills. I have been working with them on logic puzzles this year using Perplexors, and they are barely able to do the puzzles in the Basic book (3rd-4th grade level). I have also been working with them on writing compositions, and they are doing fairly well with writing paragraphs, but at this point, none are capable of writing a good essay. Their reading ability and interest level would be most compatible with books written on maybe a 6th or 7th grade level. To integrate history & literature, what would you suggest for me? I've been looking at middle school level materials such as MFW Creation to the Greeks or Mystery of History paired with Sonlight readers or TruthQuest selections. Which other programs should I look at?

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You must seek out works that will be good, strong works that appeal to them. There maybe a few classics that you can sneak in.

 

It is also possible, that you might get them to read something of some meaning by sneaking it in. I can't really point to anything in particular to choose, but say there are folks doing this all around the country in all sorts of weird situations (Dante in jail, Shakespeare in the poorest LA school in 5th grade, etc). You can try reading about those that are successful in this sort of reach up and see if you can do the same.

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Thank you for the suggestions; however, I am not asking HOW to implement their studies; I am asking WHICH PROGRAM you would recommend. Here's what I want:

 

- a literature-based history program with a Christian worldview

- for high school students who are working at logic stage

- 6th-7th grade level reading material but suitable for 9th-11th grade students

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Thank you for the suggestions; however, I am not asking HOW to implement their studies; I am asking WHICH PROGRAM you would recommend. Here's what I want:

 

- a literature-based history program with a Christian worldview

- for high school students who are working at logic stage

- 6th-7th grade level reading material but suitable for 9th-11th grade students

TOG dialectic? Christian worldview, discussions, worksheets, maps, etc. You can also include questions from rhetoric discussions as appropriate. :001_cool:

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TOG dialectic? Christian worldview, discussions, worksheets, maps, etc. You can also include questions from rhetoric discussions as appropriate. :001_cool:

 

 

If you go this route, I would suggest using Years 3 and 4 which have more support for D level lit and quite honestly much better books.

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Thank you for the suggestions; however, I am not asking HOW to implement their studies; I am asking WHICH PROGRAM you would recommend. Here's what I want:

 

- a literature-based history program with a Christian worldview

- for high school students who are working at logic stage

- 6th-7th grade level reading material but suitable for 9th-11th grade students

 

 

I would look at using either the history guidelines in WTM or Tapestry of Grace or Sonlight. However, if you go with TOG or SL, I would look for older print copies of the schedules and use it just for history and not for literature.

 

Either WTM or TOG would let you move up and down in level between upper grammar, logic and rhetoric as the specific student/period/book allowed.

 

For writing and literature, I would use Windows to the World. The course as written teaches literary criticsm and essay writing in a methodical way using short stories. There is a syllabus from IEW that uses W2W, Teaching the Classics and three more books (To Kill a Mockingbird, Jane Eyre and Hamlet). I probably would not recommend Jane Eyre for a group as you described. If they struggle with infering in literature, I would wait on Mockingbird too. So I would probably suggest skipping the IEW syllabus for now.

 

 

Writing with Skill is an outstanding program for writing, but doesn't include literary criticism, per se. It also doesn't focus on grammar, as there were plans for a separate grammar series, which are now on hold. If you check the Advanced Language Lessons sticky on the Logic board, you can find the SWB recommendations made for grammar.

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I haven't looked at the MFW middle grades stuff in a while, but doesn't it use Streams? If so, that's probably a terrible choice for these kids. Have you looked at the Walch PowerBasics materials? They are high school level content brought down to a lower reading level. They have a very, very nice history series, and they have science as well.

 

Also, you might look into Bridgeway Academy. When I talked with them at the convention, they seemed very good at understanding unique students and customizing. They're the ones that mentioned the Walch PowerBasics to me. They have detailed lesson plans for every single thing they sell or create, and they can totally customize packages. So you could get Walch this, Saxon that, and have lesson plans for everything. It might meet that need where you're asking for curriculum.

 

I know that's not giving you distinctly christian material. I think though if you look at something like the Walch (or name slips my mind is another that offers that type of materials) you'll find something that is *practical*, something you can work with. And if they're doing the material and it's working, then you have a bit of leeway and energy to add in what you want. After all, some of these christian programs are just starting with secular texts. You could get MOH for yourself and use it to add lit and discussion points. However, with for instance the Walch materials, you're starting off with something on their reading level, something they can interact with. The workbooks are GOOD. I got the series, thinking I might use it with my dd this year. It wasn't quite the right fit for her, but I'm saving it for my ds. I like it very much and as someone who prefers distinctly christian materials where possible but can't always get them, it's something I can *work* with.

 

I like the creative things in the Walch too. That was one of the things I liked best about talking with Bridgeway, that they didn't view the kids as just a list of *can'ts* but actually saw them in a positive light too and were trying to find ways to bring out their strengths or interests.

 

So whatever, maybe that gives you some ideas. TQ I have for many of the levels, not all. It's good, but I'm kind of grimacing here trying to think of how it would fit. Probably I'd go back to the picture books of classics. Then I'd listen to the audiobooks of classics while they work on a hands-on. Then I'd watch the video. I use a lot of historical fiction with my dd, but the TQ books tend to be older, oop, harder reads. I think you'd do better with the lists in MOH or the VP catalog.

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My niece is 15. Pulled out of PS this year. I'm mentoring/tutoring her and helped my sister pick out curriculum. She actually is pretty smart BUT hates reading and has comprehension difficulties. Personally I wouldn't force a program *based* on reading books for kids who hate to read. I'm also just trying to get her to read, anything.

 

So for history, literature, grammar and composition this is what she is doing:

 

Notgrass - She has to read a unit every week, it is pretty simple. There are review questions after each lesson but I just have her go over them herself. There are options for writing assignments and she has to do one. There is also schedule bible reading and a lesson every unit (as well as worldview in the others). She takes notes on the chapters to make flashcards, sometimes she makes posters or drawings, she also has a timeline. There is a weekly quiz for each unit also and that's what my sister is basing her grade off of.

 

For literature she is using Any Novel Study Guide. It's written for 6th-12th graders and can be used with any book. We are picking our own titles BUT you could use the Literature from Notgrass. There are some notes on each book and a schedule. I think it would pair nicely (but some of the choices aren't easy! that's why we're picking others).

 

For grammar and more writing she is using Essentials in Writing. It starts with the basics of sentences, moves on to paragraphs, then essays and a research paper.

 

It's been a good fit for her. I don't see Notgrass or her other curriculum suggested here often but I actually think they can be very successful for a certain type of student. :)

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Personally I wouldn't force a program *based* on reading books for kids who hate to read. I'm also just trying to get her to read, anything.

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For literature she is using Any Novel Study Guide. It's written for 6th-12th graders and can be used with any book.

 

 

They enjoy books as long as we read together. It's when I assign them to read on their own that the trouble begins. But the Any Novel Study Guide does sound really good.

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This year I am using Time Travelers cd-roms with the kids with titles from sonlight core D and core 100 (depending on the title) to read. Next year I am looking to use TOG year 3 dialectic mainly though I may choose a couple R titles. I had planned to use mosdos for literature analysis this year but kids are doing lit classes online with their school board. I really liked the looks of mosdos though if one was doing TOG that would be over kill I am sure.

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I think Sonlight would be a great fit if you want a literature based history. Most complaints about it are about the low reading level requirements and lack of depth in analysis - a perfect fit for the kids you are talking about. We used it for cores 3+4, 6, 7, and 100. I think Core 6 and up (G and up now) could work for you.

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I think Sonlight would be a great fit if you want a literature based history. Most complaints about it are about the low reading level requirements and lack of depth in analysis - a perfect fit for the kids you are talking about. We used it for cores 3+4, 6, 7, and 100. I think Core 6 and up (G and up now) could work for you.

 

I've always liked the idea of Sonlight, but I've never really looked into it closely. I assume you can buy components for each subject rather than the whole program? Should I look at teaching guides for history? What else would I need to buy--other than the individual titles, of course?

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I've always liked the idea of Sonlight, but I've never really looked into it closely. I assume you can buy components for each subject rather than the whole program? Should I look at teaching guides for history? What else would I need to buy--other than the individual titles, of course?

 

I buy the instructor's guide (used) and then the history spines, whatever is used for more than two weeks at a time. I have a good library system and usually only have to buy a few other books. My average cost/year for SL was about $100. I've never actually ordered anything from SL, it is just too pricey!

 

Feel free to pm or email me if you have more specific questions about cores that I have used. SL also has forums. You can get a trial membership for free to read people's questions and responses about each core.

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