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How do you deal with an estranged parent who is dying?


Mergath
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I agree with this a thousand times over. Abused kids who grow into adulthood and cut off contact with their abuser take so much crap in this society that it's staggering. Seriously, this culture seems to really hate victims.

Honestly, I'm not sure it's a 'hate victims' situation.

 

I think it goes to the sanctity of motherhood/parenthood.

 

In no other segement of society would someone be questioned, disbelieved, if they said someone abused them. There would be shock, certainly...but not doubt to the same degree when you say that it's your MOTHER that perpetuated such abuse upon you.

 

Somehow, it seems to be that parents are supposed to be on this special pedestal that requires victims to not only forgive, but to forget, brush it under the carpet, give chance after chance after chance, and if you don't, then aspersions are not only cast upon you, but also the ominious, "what are you teaching your children?" and "Your kids will do the same thing to you..."

 

Personally, I'm hoping that my kids learn that NOBODY has the right to abuse them. DNA does not give someone the right to grind you into the dirt, and require you to take it.

 

There seems to be an insistance, esp when it comes to mothers, that they can't POSSIBLY be bad...that they CAN'T be deliberately cruel and nasty...and in no other area of society can I think of another example where ppl refuse to accept that just b/c someone has a certain title, it doesn't mean they're decent individuals.

 

When it comes to parent/child relationships, the question is always there..."well, what did YOU do?"

 

This kills me. If someone walked up to me on the street, beat the snot outta me, ppl wouldn't expect me to continue a relationship w/my abuser.

 

But...when a parent does it...A parent, who, by all that is right and good should be the person most protecting the child, who should be the one person on the planet that truly wants what's postiive and wonderful for the kid does it...well, the KID must have some responsibility. Questions about, "What, you're perfect?" "Can't you just let it go?" "Is it really all that bad?" come out of the woodwork.

 

I think if we ever get to the point of accepting that giving birth/parenting doesn't automatically = decent person, it'll be a step in the right direction.

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This would be a primary concern for me. I remember reading a chilling blog post or article (wish I'd saved it) about a mother who had cut off her own mother (or parents, can't remember) for sins committed in her childhood. At any rate, when her kids were grown, her kids cut her off because, she realized, this is exactly what she had taught them to do for parents. She so regretted it, especially now that Mom was long dead, and that she knows she could have toughed it out for the limited time remaining.

 

I wish I could find it. It really affected me.

 

 

Edit: Interestingly, I have two illustrative situations in my "family of origin." My father had virtually no relationship with his mother. (His father had either left or died before I was born. The story I got was never very clear.) I met that grandmother once. He also had no relationship with his brother, whom I never met. I had two cousins I met once, while my father was away from home.

 

On the other side, my mother did continue a relationship with her own mother until my grandmother died. Their relationship was difficult and unpleasant. My mother used to keep a bottle of cheap vodka in the back of the 'fridge so it was nice and cold and ready to drink when she had to talk to her mother on the phone. And she would routinely take to her bed for a couple of days to recover after my grandmother visited. They argued frequently, and my grandmother was not kind to my mother. I watched her soak up the misery for years.

 

What I learned from this is: If my kids cut me off, it will be because I deserved it.

 

Personally, I believe I'm teaching my kids that they have a right to stand up for their own emotional needs and to draw appropriate boundaries. If it turns out I end up on the other side of those boundaries someday, I recognize it will be my own fault.

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What I learned from this is: If my kids cut me off, it will be because I deserved it.

 

Personally, I believe I'm teaching my kids that they have a right to stand up for their own emotional needs and to draw appropriate boundaries. If it turns out I end up on the other side of those boundaries someday, I recognize it will be my own fault.

 

Amen.

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I talked to her earlier today. She's not going to see him either, which I completely understand. They were married for over twenty years and her house is only ten minutes away from the hospital he's in, but he was even worse to her than he was to me during their marriage. She has PTSD from it, even now that it's ten years after their divorce.

 

Which is another reason I'd rather not go, now that I think about it. If I drive up there, my mom is going to feel obligated to come with me, and seeing him is going to make her mental state worse. She still has panic attacks when she thinks about him. I can't imagine how much it would affect her in a negative way to have to actually see him. :(

 

It pains me to think that you may be beating yourself up over not going. You don't have to go. You are not a monster. I'm so sorry for the pain all this is causing you, past, present, & future. :grouphug:

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Live so that in the end (at the end of your life, your relationships) you have NO REGRETS. it doesn't matter if other people think you are a monster- they might anyway. The thing is to make sure that you are living true, regardless of abuse, what others think, etc.

 

This was our motto with abusive family members. Some of them are now dead. I have no regrets about what I did or did not do. More often than not I showed up. Mainly because I did not want thier limitations and abuse to define me, to ostracize me, to keep me from forgiving them. I also worked at forgiving them. It was work. I'm not done yet.

Some of my family continues to think I'm a jerk. News flash- they probably would have anyway.

 

 

What I learned from this is: If my kids cut me off, it will be because I deserved it.

 

I so strongly disagree with this. I have seen it happen time after time when entitled people don't get what they want, they cut others off. It's not a matter of "deserve," it's a matter of selfishness. Just throwing it out there, that getting cut off be for a whole lot of reasons.

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I've been in almost your exact shoes. I hadn't seen or spoke to my father in over 10 years when i found out he was dying. What I did was send flowers to the hospital, write him a letter, and call him. He didnt want to see me, but I did those things for me. I have no regrets. Hugs to you :(.

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Even though the crises has passed, this is a good time to think through what your response will be when the time comes.

 

I don't want to go into details, but mine was horrific when I was growing up and continued to hound and harrass me into adulthood. My father just stood by and said that he was sorry. He never took steps to defend me or side with me. At one point she and my father tried to sue us and thankfully couldn't find a lawyer that would take the case.

 

So I decided way before we got there that I would make sure that they were taken care of, but that I wouldn't be there unless they wanted to make right the abuse they had inflicted. In both cases, they had no interest whatsoever in having contact with me while they were in hospice (thankfully a relative was there who sided with me and asked them this), and so I didn't go. And I am completely at peace with that. In the case of my mother, it would have been crushing to have her reject me at the end.

 

If you will, I wanted to write the last chapter, and I did.

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Edit: Interestingly, I have two illustrative situations in my "family of origin." My father had virtually no relationship with his mother. (His father had either left or died before I was born. The story I got was never very clear.) I met that grandmother once. He also had no relationship with his brother, whom I never met. I had two cousins I met once, while my father was away from home.

 

On the other side, my mother did continue a relationship with her own mother until my grandmother died. Their relationship was difficult and unpleasant. My mother used to keep a bottle of cheap vodka in the back of the 'fridge so it was nice and cold and ready to drink when she had to talk to her mother on the phone. And she would routinely take to her bed for a couple of days to recover after my grandmother visited. They argued frequently, and my grandmother was not kind to my mother. I watched her soak up the misery for years.

 

 

 

I can match you story for story in the family of origin, and possibly raise you one. But I won't. I choose to focus on the positive, not the negative, and my Mom, who was wonderful, taught me to always do just that. I've never met a more positive person who just kept going, despite events that would have destroyed weaker people. I'll take her for my example of how to be the bigger person, not the bitter person.

 

What I learned from this is: If my kids cut me off, it will be because I deserved it.

 

Personally, I believe I'm teaching my kids that they have a right to stand up for their own emotional needs and to draw appropriate boundaries. If it turns out I end up on the other side of those boundaries someday, I recognize it will be my own fault.

 

 

I disagree entirely. It will be the fault of both parties. You make choices when you are an adult; you do not remain a victim endlessly, unless you choose to do so. One can forgive others and one MUST, unless one wants to remain an embittered victim for the rest of his/her life. I've known both overcomers and victims. I'm going with the overcomers (and I have a few stories of my own in my life that I could choose to let stop me in my tracks - and sometimes they did, but I always got back up and kept going, sooner or later. Thanks, Mom.).

 

Interestingly, as this topic comes up SO much here, I was flipping through the TV yesterday afternoon and landed on something I haven't seen for years - Dr. Phil. This very issue was the topic that day, and he told the justifiably angry daughter just what I said above - that she had to forgive for her own sake so that the bitterness didn't destroy her own life. Her mom wasn't even really apologetic, but was quite defensive. Apparently, her Mom had stayed with a guy that abused the daughter for some time, from what I could figure out, and the daughter had told the Mom and Mom didn't leave right away. Pretty bad stuff.

 

But Dr. Phil was dead-on accurate that it didn't matter NOW if Mom didn't accept full responsibility insofar as the mental state of the daughter. If she didn't forgive her Mom for her OWN SAKE, it was going to kill her, he said (or something really close to that). I couldn't agree more.

 

Living well is the best revenge, I've heard said by my own Mom (and others). Yes.

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I've been in almost your exact shoes. I hadn't seen or spoke to my father in over 10 years when i found out he was dying. What I did was send flowers to the hospital, write him a letter, and call him. He didnt want to see me, but I did those things for me. I have no regrets. Hugs to you :(.

 

That's great.

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Live so that in the end (at the end of your life, your relationships) you have NO REGRETS. it doesn't matter if other people think you are a monster- they might anyway. The thing is to make sure that you are living true, regardless of abuse, what others think, etc.

 

This was our motto with abusive family members. Some of them are now dead. I have no regrets about what I did or did not do. More often than not I showed up. Mainly because I did not want thier limitations and abuse to define me, to ostracize me, to keep me from forgiving them. I also worked at forgiving them. It was work. I'm not done yet.

Some of my family continues to think I'm a jerk. News flash- they probably would have anyway.

 

 

 

I so strongly disagree with this. I have seen it happen time after time when entitled people don't get what they want, they cut others off. It's not a matter of "deserve," it's a matter of selfishness. Just throwing it out there, that getting cut off be for a whole lot of reasons.

 

Oh, yes. I could not agree more. It definitely cuts both ways.

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Mergath, you're not a monster, but it sounds like your father is.

 

A lot of people seem to believe that as soon as a person gets a bed in the ICU, he suddenly develops some sort of magical sweetness and kindness and deserves all sorts of forgiveness.

 

It's sort of like when people feel so sorry for that poor lady in the nursing home whose kids never come to visit, without ever once considering that maybe that cute little old lady in the flowery housecoat used to beat her kids with a belt just for fun, and maybe they've got a very good reason for not wanting to deal with her.

 

Seriously.

 

Don't let this be about what anyone else will think of you. If they're going to think ill of you, they'll still find a way to do it, even if you visit your father. ("Oh, did you see that Mergath finally went to see her father? Sure, she waited until he was on his death bed! What a horrible person she is!") There's no way to win with some people, so don't even enter the competition.

 

It sounds like your dad was a very bad father, and being sick doesn't negate the things he has done. If your stepmother was telling you that your father wanted to apologize and make amends, and you believed it wasn't just a manipulative action on his part and that it might provide some sort of closure for you, that might be a different story, but it doesn't sound like that's the case here.

 

Has your stepmother told you why your father wants to see you? Because if he just wants to reiterate that everything was your fault, you really don't need to hear that.

 

:grouphug:

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I can match you story for story in the family of origin, and possibly raise you one. But I won't. I choose to focus on the positive, not the negative, and my Mom, who was wonderful, taught me to always do just that. I've never met a more positive person who just kept going, despite events that would have destroyed weaker people. I'll take her for my example of how to be the bigger person, not the bitter person.

 

 

 

I disagree entirely. It will be the fault of both parties. You make choices when you are an adult; you do not remain a victim endlessly, unless you choose to do so. One can forgive others and one MUST, unless one wants to remain an embittered victim for the rest of his/her life. I've known both overcomers and victims. I'm going with the overcomers (and I have a few stories of my own in my life that I could choose to let stop me in my tracks - and sometimes they did, but I always got back up and kept going, sooner or later. Thanks, Mom.).

 

Interestingly, as this topic comes up SO much here, I was flipping through the TV yesterday afternoon and landed on something I haven't seen for years - Dr. Phil. This very issue was the topic that day, and he told the justifiably angry daughter just what I said above - that she had to forgive for her own sake so that the bitterness didn't destroy her own life. Her mom wasn't even really apologetic, but was quite defensive. Apparently, her Mom had stayed with a guy that abused the daughter for some time, from what I could figure out, and the daughter had told the Mom and Mom didn't leave right away. Pretty bad stuff.

 

But Dr. Phil was dead-on accurate that it didn't matter NOW if Mom didn't accept full responsibility insofar as the mental state of the daughter. If she didn't forgive her Mom for her OWN SAKE, it was going to kill her, he said (or something really close to that). I couldn't agree more.

 

Living well is the best revenge, I've heard said by my own Mom (and others). Yes.

Forgiveness does not equal reconcilliation.

 

Just b/c you choose not to have a relationship w/your abuser does NOT mean you are embittered, that you're living in hatred. It means that you choose not to open yourself up to more abuse. And, just b/c you're an adult does NOT mean that ppl cannot continue to be abusive. There's not a switch that flips w/an abuser when someone becomes an adult and suddenly makes them behave appropriately.

 

You can forgive, let go of hurt and anger, w/out allowing someone back into your life. That's choosing not to continue to be a victim.

 

Again, only in the parent/child relationship is the victim encouraged, expected, and emotionally guilted and blackmailed to continue a relationship w/their abuser. Stunning, really.

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Forgiveness does not equal reconcilliation.

 

Just b/c you choose not to have a relationship w/your abuser does NOT mean you are embittered, that you're living in hatred. It means that you choose not to open yourself up to more abuse. And, just b/c you're an adult does NOT mean that ppl cannot continue to be abusive. There's not a switch that flips w/an abuser when someone becomes an adult and suddenly makes them behave appropriately.

 

You can forgive, let go of hurt and anger, w/out allowing someone back into your life. That's choosing not to continue to be a victim.

 

Again, only in the parent/child relationship is the victim encouraged, expected, and emotionally guilted and blackmailed to continue a relationship w/their abuser. Stunning, really.

 

:iagree: :iagree: Just as I choose not to watch horror movies because I can't handle being exposed to disgusting violence and gore, I also don't open up my life to people who are toxic to me. I don't spend any energy hating them or resenting them, cross my heart. I just know I'm better off emotionally/psychologically when I fill my life with the positives as much as possible. If the toxic person is a family member, I don't go out of my way to shun them, I just consider them the same as any stranger on the street--not deserving of special treatment in a positive or negative way. I wouldn't run to the bedside of any random stranger who was seriously ill, so I wouldn't visit with a toxic relative, either.

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Forgiveness does not equal reconcilliation.

 

Just b/c you choose not to have a relationship w/your abuser does NOT mean you are embittered, that you're living in hatred. It means that you choose not to open yourself up to more abuse. And, just b/c you're an adult does NOT mean that ppl cannot continue to be abusive. There's not a switch that flips w/an abuser when someone becomes an adult and suddenly makes them behave appropriately.

 

You can forgive, let go of hurt and anger, w/out allowing someone back into your life. That's choosing not to continue to be a victim.

 

Again, only in the parent/child relationship is the victim encouraged, expected, and emotionally guilted and blackmailed to continue a relationship w/their abuser. Stunning, really.

:iagree: :iagree: Just as I choose not to watch horror movies because I can't handle being exposed to disgusting violence and gore, I also don't open up my life to people who are toxic to me. I don't spend any energy hating them or resenting them, cross my heart. I just know I'm better off emotionally/psychologically when I fill my life with the positives as much as possible. If the toxic person is a family member, I don't go out of my way to shun them, I just consider them the same as any stranger on the street--not deserving of special treatment in a positive or negative way. I wouldn't run to the bedside of any random stranger who was seriously ill, so I wouldn't visit with a toxic relative, either.

 

Sometimes deciding to not having a relationship with someone IS in a sense forgiveness and acceptance. That final realization that they aren't going to change and the relationship isn't going to ever improve. You accept that, but you simply can't expose yourself to it any more.

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I so strongly disagree with this. I have seen it happen time after time when entitled people don't get what they want, they cut others off. It's not a matter of "deserve," it's a matter of selfishness. Just throwing it out there, that getting cut off be for a whole lot of reasons.

 

 

Who raised those people to feel so entitled?

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You know what?

 

I AM entitled.

 

Abso-freaking-lutely.

 

I'm entitled to not have someone treat me like carp. To not be lied to, manipulated, insulted, belittled, mocked. To not have someone in my life that will stand there, in the face of my tragedy, and smirk...enjoying my pain.

 

I'm entitled to not be treated w/disrespect. To not be treated like a toy...in favour for a brief period, then chucked under the bed and ignored until they deem me interesting again.

 

I'm entitled not to have my children mocked. Or my marriage. Or my parenting. Or my disability. Or my lifestyle (ever been called a 'rent-testerite' aka 'parasite' b/c you don't own your own home?)

 

I'm entitled to be treated w/simple basic common courtesy and respect that you'd give to a stranger on the street...not like carp b/c I share DNA.

 

Da*n right I'm entitled.

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Who raised those people to feel so entitled?

 

As someone with professional and personal experiences (i.e.adult children who are completely emancipated and no longer dependent on us for anything), I offer my perspective: irl your kids will grow up and make their own choices regardless of how they were raised. To belive that raising you kids a certain way will result in specific behavior is not realistic.

 

You know what?

 

I AM entitled.

 

Abso-freaking-lutely.

 

I'm entitled to not have someone treat me like carp. To not be lied to, manipulated, insulted, belittled, mocked. To not have someone in my life that will stand there, in the face of my tragedy, and smirk...enjoying my pain.

 

I'm entitled to not be treated w/disrespect. To not be treated like a toy...in favour for a brief period, then chucked under the bed and ignored until they deem me interesting again.

 

I'm entitled not to have my children mocked. Or my marriage. Or my parenting. Or my disability. Or my lifestyle (ever been called a 'rent-testerite' aka 'parasite' b/c you don't own your own home?)

 

I'm entitled to be treated w/simple basic common courtesy and respect that you'd give to a stranger on the street...not like carp b/c I share DNA.

 

Da*n right I'm entitled.

:iagree: And yes, I've been called names, mocked, etc. along with other more blatent forms of abuse that I'm not going to go into on a public forum.. I'm not writing anything out of pie-in the sky holier than thou. My point was that there are no guarnatees for behavior when you have real people invovled and to make a statement like "what I learned from this is: If my kids cut me off, it will be because I deserved it." is legalistic, harsh and judgmental. There are LOTS of reasons for kids cutting themselvse off from their parents that don't always have to do wtih abuse or neglect.

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As someone with professional and personal experiences (i.e.adult children who are completely emancipated and no longer dependent on us for anything), I offer my perspective: irl your kids will grow up and make their own choices regardless of how they were raised. To belive that raising you kids a certain way will result in specific behavior is not realistic.

 

 

 

 

"Parents of one child believe in environment. Parents of 2 children believe in genes."

 

Although our experiences are the same, although we use the same turns of phrase, my cadre of siblings is clearly divided between the optimists and the pessimists, and the difference in our outlook is stunning.

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Has your stepmother told you why your father wants to see you? Because if he just wants to reiterate that everything was your fault, you really don't need to hear that.

 

:grouphug:

 

I think it's more that she thinks it would be nice if we made up, rather than him actually wanting to see me. From what I've heard about her, she seems to be a normal, sweet person. (Don't know how she ended up marrying my father... *ahem*) I don't know if it was her idea or his.

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As someone with professional and personal experiences (i.e.adult children who are completely emancipated and no longer dependent on us for anything), I offer my perspective: irl your kids will grow up and make their own choices regardless of how they were raised. To belive that raising you kids a certain way will result in specific behavior is not realistic.

 

 

:iagree: And yes, I've been called names, mocked, etc. along with other more blatent forms of abuse that I'm not going to go into on a public forum.. I'm not writing anything out of pie-in the sky holier than thou. My point was that there are no guarnatees for behavior when you have real people invovled and to make a statement like "what I learned from this is: If my kids cut me off, it will be because I deserved it." is legalistic, harsh and judgmental. There are LOTS of reasons for kids cutting themselvse off from their parents that don't always have to do wtih abuse or neglect.

 

It's clear to me that you haven't read most, much or any of the posts I've ever made here about anything if you think those adjectives apply to me.

 

The point I was making was that I, personally, have not seen any adult child cut out of his or her life a parent who "deserves" to be in it, a parent with whom that younger adult has a mutually respectful, loving, meaningful relationship. I, personally, do not know any parent who does not have a relationship with an adult child who did not earn that distance. I say this as the daughter of one parent who did not maintain a relationship with his parent, another who did so at great cost to her and to me, an adult child who does not have a relationship with her own parents and a mother who does not have a relationship with her eldest biological child. I'm not talking through my hat, here. And trust me when I tell you that I know parenting goes only so far.

 

For me, in my life (which was all I said to begin with), I stand by my statement.

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I can match you story for story in the family of origin, and possibly raise you one. But I won't. I choose to focus on the positive, not the negative, and my Mom, who was wonderful, taught me to always do just that. I've never met a more positive person who just kept going, despite events that would have destroyed weaker people. I'll take her for my example of how to be the bigger person, not the bitter person.

 

 

 

I disagree entirely. It will be the fault of both parties. You make choices when you are an adult; you do not remain a victim endlessly, unless you choose to do so. One can forgive others and one MUST, unless one wants to remain an embittered victim for the rest of his/her life. I've known both overcomers and victims. I'm going with the overcomers (and I have a few stories of my own in my life that I could choose to let stop me in my tracks - and sometimes they did, but I always got back up and kept going, sooner or later. Thanks, Mom.).

 

Interestingly, as this topic comes up SO much here, I was flipping through the TV yesterday afternoon and landed on something I haven't seen for years - Dr. Phil. This very issue was the topic that day, and he told the justifiably angry daughter just what I said above - that she had to forgive for her own sake so that the bitterness didn't destroy her own life. Her mom wasn't even really apologetic, but was quite defensive. Apparently, her Mom had stayed with a guy that abused the daughter for some time, from what I could figure out, and the daughter had told the Mom and Mom didn't leave right away. Pretty bad stuff.

 

But Dr. Phil was dead-on accurate that it didn't matter NOW if Mom didn't accept full responsibility insofar as the mental state of the daughter. If she didn't forgive her Mom for her OWN SAKE, it was going to kill her, he said (or something really close to that). I couldn't agree more.

 

Living well is the best revenge, I've heard said by my own Mom (and others). Yes.

 

So many assumptions.

 

1. I'm not bitter. I forgave everyone involved in my own personal history many years ago. I'm just not naive enough to reopen a door that, when closed, has allowed me to lead a happy, healthy, stable life of my own. It's entirely possible to be done and not be angry.

 

2. I do not consider myself a victim. I accept full responsibility for the part I played in the disastrous relationships I had when younger. I think I've grown quite a bit from those experiences. I understand that getting through them and getting past them is a huge part of why I am who I am now. I can't honestly say I'm "grateful" for them, but I know they are an important part of my history.

 

3. I don't ever expect any of the other players in my personal drama to apologize or accept any fault or responsibility, not ever. In fact, based on some recent unwelcome communication, I can say with absolute certainty that nothing of the sort will be forthcoming. It doesn't matter to me. I don't need that from anyone.

 

4. The funny thing is that "Living well is the best revenge" is one of my very favorite sayings, although I always put implied quotes around the "revenge" thing, since I don't actually believe in the concept. I accepted a long time ago that I can't change anyone else, not really. I can't "make" anyone see my point or agree with me. I can't control any other human being, no matter what my relationship is to him or her. All I can do is live my own life, the best way I can, working hard to be the best person I can be, the best mom I can be every day. I can't prove to anyone how "right" I was. I can't go back in time and rescuse broken relationships. Instead, I choose to focus on creating and nurturing the healthy ones I do have. All I can do is learn from my own experiences to help me do better, be better, live better.

 

After all of this time and all of the pain I worked through to get here, I think I -- and anyone else who has had to do the same hard work -- deserves the courtesy and respect to make these decisions without well-meaning lectures from virtual strangers, which is all I was trying to offer to Mergath. (And I'm sorry that we, again, seem to have gotten off track.)

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I think it's more that she thinks it would be nice if we made up, rather than him actually wanting to see me. From what I've heard about her, she seems to be a normal, sweet person. (Don't know how she ended up marrying my father... *ahem*) I don't know if it was her idea or his.

 

Maybe he's a lot different with her than he was with you and your mom. He's a lot older now, and he might have changed enough to treat new people differently, even if he falls right back into old patterns with people he has always known.

 

I guess it's nice that he married a sweet person, if he's treating her well, and it's certainly nice of her to wish that you and your father could reconcile, even if it's never really going to happen. A lot of new spouses would be thrilled to never hear from the "original family," so unless she has a reason to want to try to hit you up for money or something, it's sweet of her to make the attempt to get you and your father back together. Chances are excellent that she has no idea what really went on in your home when you were young, so your relationship with your father is probably a mystery to her.

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