GoVanGogh Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Background info: DS was a self-taught reader, starting a few months before his fourth birthday. I used Abeka's Reading Handbook the following year, just to go over the basic phonics rules. I used Spelling Workout around grades 1-3, but dropped it because DS wasn't retaining anything. DS is a visual learner, so I tried Sequential Spelling for a year. Again, no retention. Last year, I started over with spelling - going back to level 1 of All About Spelling. In 4th grade last year: DS scored 9th+ grade for reading comp on the ITBS. (He reads constantly, to the point we have to limit his reading. His comprehension is very high.) He scored on grade level for spelling, but that method of testing is visual - pick the correct or incorrect word. But to actually spell? At 5th grade, he still misspells simple C-V-C words. He was recently diagnosed with midline cerebellum damage plus a neuromuscular disorder that makes the mechanics of writing painful. Our doctor thinks the spelling/reading discrepancy is from the cerebellum damage - that pathway is blocked. He suggested extensive testing to find a way around that road block. DS has gone through some initial testing and they don't think it is standard dysgraphia or dyslexia. I know that DS is very visual, but I have never been able to transfer that ability to spelling. If he can orally spell a word, he still can't write it out. He can edit his work and find all of his errors. His spelling while typing appears to be a bit better, but not a great improvement. An example: DS wrote "run" as "rone," but then re-read the sentence and commented that in his head he did write it as "run." Recently, in one sentence, he wrote "holes" and "hols" yet spelled "yesterday" correctly. There is no pattern or reason to what he can spell. What he spells right in one sentence is likely to be misspelled just a few sentences later. (He wrote "ground" correctly and incorrectly as "gronde" in one paragraph.) DS is now in OT for the cerebellum issues and I am hoping that will help the spelling come along. We recently started using a weighted pencil and that is helping to stabilize the neuromuscular issues. Does anyone have any insight in how to teach spelling - and writing - to this child? What at-home programs are available that can help with brain issues? I am wondering about Diane Craft's books? (I just read the review here on her DVD and that is on my list to buy post-holidays.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 :bigear: Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merry gardens Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 My condolences. I have a very poor speller, and it's sucks the life out of me somedays to see his spelling mistakes. :crying: In your son's defense, his spelling seem somewhat logical or at least as logical as any spelling can be in English. Consider the following: "done" and "run" rhyme, therefore it's as logical to spell run "rone" as it is to spell done "done". "ol" sometimes makes the long o sound, like in "old", so he tried "hols" instead of "holes". Spelling in English is much harder than in most other languages. You might look at Seeing Stars for spelling. It's a good program designed to help develop visual memory for words. You might just spend time re-inforcing the spelling of the most common words. I did that on top of Barton--and I still see hideous spelling mistakes. My son made major gains in his spelling scores on standardized tests one year--a seven fold increase! Yet it still left him well below average. In my son's writing, it's much more challenging for him to spell correctly and create a story than to simply spell words in isolation. We're working on self editing. Your son may misspell, but he also might be able to discover his own errors, which may help to prevent those same errors at some point in the future. Another bright side--there is spell check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 yes, i was wondering if he's tried typing instead of writing, using spell check? if he has issues, the most important thing is learning how to function as an adult in the world. You might continue to work on spelling programs but also work on helping him learn how to write on the computer and use the available tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Background info: DS was a self-taught reader, starting a few months before his fourth birthday. I used Abeka's Reading Handbook the following year, just to go over the basic phonics rules. I used Spelling Workout around grades 1-3, but dropped it because DS wasn't retaining anything. DS is a visual learner, so I tried Sequential Spelling for a year. Again, no retention. Last year, I started over with spelling - going back to level 1 of All About Spelling. In 4th grade last year: DS scored 9th+ grade for reading comp on the ITBS. (He reads constantly, to the point we have to limit his reading. His comprehension is very high.) He scored on grade level for spelling, but that method of testing is visual - pick the correct or incorrect word. But to actually spell? At 5th grade, he still misspells simple C-V-C words. He was recently diagnosed with midline cerebellum damage plus a neuromuscular disorder that makes the mechanics of writing painful. Our doctor thinks the spelling/reading discrepancy is from the cerebellum damage - that pathway is blocked. He suggested extensive testing to find a way around that road block. DS has gone through some initial testing and they don't think it is standard dysgraphia or dyslexia. I know that DS is very visual, but I have never been able to transfer that ability to spelling. If he can orally spell a word, he still can't write it out. He can edit his work and find all of his errors. His spelling while typing appears to be a bit better, but not a great improvement. An example: DS wrote "run" as "rone," but then re-read the sentence and commented that in his head he did write it as "run." Recently, in one sentence, he wrote "holes" and "hols" yet spelled "yesterday" correctly. There is no pattern or reason to what he can spell. What he spells right in one sentence is likely to be misspelled just a few sentences later. (He wrote "ground" correctly and incorrectly as "gronde" in one paragraph.) DS is now in OT for the cerebellum issues and I am hoping that will help the spelling come along. We recently started using a weighted pencil and that is helping to stabilize the neuromuscular issues. Does anyone have any insight in how to teach spelling - and writing - to this child? What at-home programs are available that can help with brain issues? I am wondering about Diane Craft's books? (I just read the review here on her DVD and that is on my list to buy post-holidays.) Different issues here (I think I am dealing with more std. dysl./dysg.), so might or might not be that similar things can work. My ds also did okay on testing of spelling, even though in reality what I see is also erratic spelling), and your post is first hint I got of how that could possibly be, btw. Using computer which will underline wrong words has been a help to some degree. Then trying to get him to sound out and write enough that the spell check will give choices. Using the spell quiz parts of an electronic dictionary has been a little help. Emphasizing repeating patterns has been a help (for example to take a moment to look at ground, found, mound, sound, round, and see that they are all same pattern). Sounding things out for him as I give the spelling has been a bit of a help. Ihave been focussing on the composing part of writing, with the idea that if he can do that well, spell checks and so on can be used if he can get at least somewhat close to the spelling. Following the IEW approach of not emphasizing spelling, and being the walking speller, is what I am mainly doing. One problem I've seen is that my ds can do very well --perfectly--with a spelling workbook (Zaner-Bloser, specifically), but then it does not seem to translate to reality as much as I would like. Still it is my hope that bit by bit the pieces will come together more. That is, some work on spelling as one skill set. Work on composing as another. Not expecting them to both be there at the same time yet. Are you sure there is no pattern for your ds? As I looked at what you wrote, it occurred to me that "yesterday" is made up of 3 segments each of which is either exactly as it sounds with not a lot of options, or a very common word "day". While the "ow" sound in ground could be done many ways, as could the long o in holes, plus that there are holes and wholes and similar sounding hoes, and a rhyming word could be bowls, souls or goals. Does he misspell words he uses over and over? Mine needs more repetition than many dc, but when words are used over and over he does get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mukmuk Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I have similar issues to you - self taught reading, fantastic spelling, especially for big words (DS says it's got more patterns to remember and therefore sinks in) but smaller words are erratic, > grade 12.9 reading and reading comprehension. He doesn't have cerebellum midline damage as a dx, although I've wondered how co-ordinated his 2 brain hemispheres are (this is just from mummy gut). For spelling, we are trying IEW's Phonetic Zoo, and it seems to be working. But I wonder if he's got the pattern down pat after a few tries ... It has helped him to transition into a more willing writer though, so I'm really pleased with it. What really has been fantastic for spelling accuracy for DS is typing. When he types, spelling is not an issue. I've noticed that when he switches to handwriting (in workbooks), the problem, eg, how to spell "where", or even how to write his name (he's nearly 10), pops up again randomly. I think the minute DS has to think of writing and making letters on paper, his working memory is soaked up and he can't remember what he's writing. Yet his phonetics is good. He reads a lot and encounters a lot of new words which he pronounces oddly, but are phonetically correctly. He did well in the nonsense word test of the dyslexic test. I like the questions Pen is asking - but no, big words are easier than small words although, strangely, it seems to be the sight words that is DS' downfall (maybe "w" is more difficult to form?). And for words that he uses often, it'll be ok when he has high frequency usage, but give him a short break - about a week, and he needs help to trigger his memory. He definitely has problems with writing "R", which is in his name. Could this be your son's problem too? It looks like his issues center around writing as well. FWIW, the NP says to practice handwriting 10 minutes a day for life skills, but he'll never be able to hand write with ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Newbie here (new to the forum). What are IEW, FWIW, NP, and ITBS, please? Also, I jsut joined the forum today, and can't seem to edit my profile yet. Anyone have any clues/suggestions there? I just tried to email the Contact Us address, and it refused to send.... As for spelling problems, sounds scarily like my DD, too. Tougher words amazingly not so difficult, but easier words, even common ones, are often misspelled. Misspellings tend to be phonetic or to attempt to follow some odd spelling rule (keeps spelling "from" as "frome"), and misspellings can be quite sporadic. She can quiz quite well at home for spelling words, but fail the spelling test the next morning at school, or she can quiz poorly and do quite well on the spelling test. I look forward to checking out spelling suggestions. This is our final year in the mainstream classroom setting -- we will start homeschooling next year. (Which is a detail I'll put in my profile, if I can ever edit it....) Another interesting aside: my Dad received head injuries 20 years ago in an accident, and he sometimes has a few spelling issues, especially when tired. I'll have to check into that more the next time he comes for a visit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mukmuk Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 IEW - Institute of Excellence in Writing FWIW - For what it's worth NP - Neuropsych ITBS - Iowa Test of Basic Skills Welcome!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 IEW - Institute of Excellence in Writing FWIW - For what it's worth NP - Neuropsych ITBS - Iowa Test of Basic Skills Welcome!! Thank you very much! I'll check out that link you provided. Does anyone know if there is an acronym list anywhere in these forums listing what commonly used acronyms mean? I've been looking, but haven't found one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Thank you very much! I'll check out that link you provided. Does anyone know if there is an acronym list anywhere in these forums listing what commonly used acronyms mean? I've been looking, but haven't found one. Scroll up - It is called the "Abbreviation Sticky". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Scroll up - It is called the "Abbreviation Sticky". *wince* I'm sorry -- scroll up to where? I can't find the abbreviation sticky. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 *wince* I'm sorry -- scroll up to where? I can't find the abbreviation sticky. Thanks! Oops. It doesn't show on this page. Go to the index of the learning challenges board (hit the light grey "the learning challenges board" line at the top of this page. I think the Abbreviations sticky is the second post and has a green "pinned" box next to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Oops. It doesn't show on this page. Go to the index of the learning challenges board (hit the light grey "the learning challenges board" line at the top of this page. I think the Abbreviations sticky is the second post and has a green "pinned" box next to it. Thank you!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reya Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Sequential spelling was a total flop here. Pollard's Speller (free online Google Books) was way better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmomjacquie Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 My third grader is using spelling power . I like it because it has you give a placement test to start. After that you go through word lists based on the level they tested into. If r they miss the word they rewrite it correctly and then use a teen step process to learn it. You retest those words the next day and add new words. This has helped my daughter a lot! You aren't wasting time on words they know already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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