Help me think this through (math related)

[AimeeM]

DD is using a couple of texts for prealgebra. I do not like our math program (at all), but we've already switched twice this year. Her ONLY problem area in prealgebra skills is percents (and that's only because our previous program didn't cover them in depth and she didn't understand the way it was presented).

Percents and she could use some more work on ratios and proportions (but she's relatively solid on those as well). I loathe to drop another $100 on a program just to review more but we NEED to drop our current program - she hates it and since she is STEM focused (science - not math), I do not want her to HATE math considering she's geared towards the sciences! Did I mention I'm already "into" math for around $300 this year? Yikes.

 

I'm considering using the rest of this month (and Jan too, if necessary) to brush up on percents, ratios, and find any weak areas... and then move straight into algebra 1 using a gentle program with lots of review (Jacob's, ideally). Is there any way this could go wrong? I already planned on two years of Algebra 1 since she is so young.

I feel like I would be missing something though, not having her complete a *real* prealgebra year. I've covered the scope and sequence for prealgebra skills to mastery (with the exception of percents), but I still feel like not completing a *real* prealgebra year will hurt her somehow.

 

Yes? No? Maybe?

Help!

[Deniseibase]

I would take a look at Key to Percents, which is cheap & quick & should get her solid on percents in short order. Two years of Algebra I for a young learner makes perfect sense to me, we're doing it too - one year with an easier, more procedure oriented text (Saxon) and next year with a lot more problem solving and theory (although not sure what that will be yet, maybe Dolciani). Your DD should be fine, even if she hasn't had a true 'prealgebra' year - and if by some chance you happen to hit a snag, you certainly have the time to pause and go back and 'fill the hole' before you go onward with the algebra program you decide on.

[RootAnn]

You've already put in a LOT of $$. Why not save some $ & go with Math Mammoth's Percents Blue book? It is $3.50 plus printing costs for you. She has free video links to go along with it. (She has one on Ratios & Proportions for another $4.00, but don't go there unless you already know MM Blue will work for your daughter!)

 

If, for some reason, you don't think that is enough. Check out Maria Miller's Make It Real (Learning Fractions, Decimals, Percent I & II workbooks) for only another $4.99 each.

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I just checked your sig & you list MM6. Does that mean MM is what she is hating?

If so, I'd go with Khan Academy! ... And then give Jacobs a try.

[jennynd]

I have both key to and math mammoth percent book. Both of them are great and relatively cheap.

[AimeeM]

You've already put in a LOT of $$. Why not save some $ & go with Math Mammoth's Percents Blue book? It is $3.50 plus printing costs for you. She has free video links to go along with it. (She has one on Ratios & Proportions for another $4.00, but don't go there unless you already know MM Blue will work for your daughter!)

 

If, for some reason, you don't think that is enough. Check out Maria Miller's Make It Real (Learning Fractions, Decimals, Percent I & II workbooks) for only another $4.99 each.

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I just checked your sig & you list MM6. Does that mean MM is what she is hating?

If so, I'd go with Khan Academy! ... And then give Jacobs a try.

She doesn't hate MM - she just needs a spiral program and with two very small boys at home, trying to turn a decidedly mastery based program into spiral is becoming sheer torture for me. I can't do it. We pull out what we need from that and from Calvert, depending on how it's explained and what she needs, but it's mostly review for her. I can use the percents portion from MM6 easily (and use the percents portion from Calvert for extra practice).

[JenC3]

FWIW, I plan taking 2 yrs for Algebra 1 as well since dd will be a young 7th grader. I don't think starting in a month or 2 will be a problem, you'll figure out fast enough if there are any gaps.

[PeterPan]

Don't know if you've sorted it out yet or not, but what you're suggesting is not what I would do. She needs spiral, and Jacobs is not spiral. You have two littles, so she needs (and probably craves) something she can pick up and do herself. Jacobs isn't necessarily that either. I suppose it is for some kids. I had it and sold it. Just saying, having done this stage and had a toddler underfoot, what you're thinking isn't the way I would go. Also, and this is only my two cents, I think pre-algebra is unwisely slammed and undervalued on this board. There's a whole stage of math 7 and math 8 which gives the student TIME TO MATURE. When a dc is struggling on something simple like percents, it's not that they're ready but held back by one thing. To me that means there's this iceberg underneath of stuff that isn't quite there. Might be a maturity/readiness thing, whatever. And to me, just me, that answer is more time at that math 7 and math 8 level. I DON'T see the value in jumping through that. There's a way to stay at that level, get that content solid, but still challenge them.

 

I haven't used Keys to. They're b&w and my dd is not a b&w, workbooky dc. You're already using a b&w, workbooky curriculum (MM). Granted it's not totally b&w. Anyways, what worked for us to get us through this stage was the TT pre-algebra. Again, much-maligned unfairly by people who haven't even used it. Yes it has some knocks (not as hard as some things, blah blah). But my dd's computation scores shot up beyond what I was ever able to get them using BJU, MM, RS, and all the other things we used over the years. For her there was always a gap between her conceptual ability and her computation. TT closed that for us. And TT *gets done* when you have a toddler or two in the house. And TT can be independent. And TT has short enough lessons that she can double up if she feels so inclined. And TT is spiral. And the lessons are short enough that you could add in the word problems from a more challenging program if you want and not be maxing her out. So TT does the dirty work and you come in to polish it off to take it to the next level.

 

That's what we're doing now, and it's finally that happy combo for us.

[AimeeM]

Don't know if you've sorted it out yet or not, but what you're suggesting is not what I would do. She needs spiral, and Jacobs is not spiral. You have two littles, so she needs (and probably craves) something she can pick up and do herself. Jacobs isn't necessarily that either. I suppose it is for some kids. I had it and sold it. Just saying, having done this stage and had a toddler underfoot, what you're thinking isn't the way I would go. Also, and this is only my two cents, I think pre-algebra is unwisely slammed and undervalued on this board. There's a whole stage of math 7 and math 8 which gives the student TIME TO MATURE. When a dc is struggling on something simple like percents, it's not that they're ready but held back by one thing. To me that means there's this iceberg underneath of stuff that isn't quite there. Might be a maturity/readiness thing, whatever. And to me, just me, that answer is more time at that math 7 and math 8 level. I DON'T see the value in jumping through that. There's a way to stay at that level, get that content solid, but still challenge them.

 

I haven't used Keys to. They're b&w and my dd is not a b&w, workbooky dc. You're already using a b&w, workbooky curriculum (MM). Granted it's not totally b&w. Anyways, what worked for us to get us through this stage was the TT pre-algebra. Again, much-maligned unfairly by people who haven't even used it. Yes it has some knocks (not as hard as some things, blah blah). But my dd's computation scores shot up beyond what I was ever able to get them using BJU, MM, RS, and all the other things we used over the years. For her there was always a gap between her conceptual ability and her computation. TT closed that for us. And TT *gets done* when you have a toddler or two in the house. And TT can be independent. And TT has short enough lessons that she can double up if she feels so inclined. And TT is spiral. And the lessons are short enough that you could add in the word problems from a more challenging program if you want and not be maxing her out. So TT does the dirty work and you come in to polish it off to take it to the next level.

 

That's what we're doing now, and it's finally that happy combo for us.

 

I have looked at TT Pre Algebra but frankly, it's cost prohibitive considering she well (and easily) tests out of it (even with her somewhat lacking in percents). Solidly tests out of it and easily into Algebra 1. TT would really be my first choice, at least for the rest of this year, while my 5 month old is still needing to nurse so frequently... I just can't seem to find a good fit for her unless I (again) move ahead to TT Algebra. I'm not sure that I'm will to shell out another almost $200 for a program she will be with for maybe a few months before she needs to move up to the next level (unless I buy the Algebra 1 instead of prealgebra).

She hates computer based programs. Right now my biggest concern is helping her again enjoy math. While she doesn't love it like she loves science, she needs to enjoy it again if she wants to go into a science field later in life. She's pretty firmly against a computer based program (she's a textbook kind of gal). I *could* do TT just for the rest of this year, and then at the beginning of the fall semester (new school year) move on to Jacob's (which is what she wants). From what I understand, while Jacob's isn't spiral, it has review sets in every lesson (at least, that's what I was told on the board).

I certainly do not undervalue prealgebra, but my husband is of the old school - they didn't have "prealgebra", they had arithmetic and then algebra, lol. Once arithmetic was solid, they moved on to algebra. Given his career and background, I tend to defer to him when it comes to math, but he's been busy traveling. Lol.

 

ETA: I am going to look at the new version of TT Pre A to see if it adds anything that it didn't have last time I looked at it.

[DarlaS]

Have you looked at Lial's? I just got 3rd editions used from amazon for about $46 total for a teacher's edition, student book and student solutions manual. An instructor's solutions manual would be more useful than the TE if you can find one.

[cschnee]

You could try Mastermath ( free online) and Adaptive Curriculum Middle School Math (8.00 at Learning.com). One thing though, if you get it at learning.com, there are no teacher's keys ( aka answers) for the worknsheets.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Well if she has seen Jacobs and liked it, get it for her. That's half the battle. I'm always way over-opinionated. :)

[dereksurfs]

Well if she has seen Jacobs and liked it, get it for her. That's half the battle. I'm always way over-opinionated. :)

 

C'mon OhElizabeth, you? Never! :D Well, honestly, its everyone's various opinions that keep this board interesting. So I'll give my 2c worth. I also think Pre-Algebra is undervalued. And not all Pre-A programs are created equal by a long shot. But that's another topic. If she likes Jacobs I say how about this option. Continue 3x a week working on Percents and any other Pre-A subject areas she is not strong on such as negative numbers, etc... depending on which scope you are looking at. Then introduce Jacobs Algebra 2x per week or vice vera (2x/3x) This will give her an incentive with light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately there are no shorcuts to solid math skills beyond hard work. But being able to work ahead a bit can be fun and more interesting than percents *every day*. I did that with ds11 when he was finishing up percents letting him jump ahead once per week and work on Pre-A, where is also discovered percents and fractions yet again! But now he is done with percents and happily learning to graph linear equations in Pre-A.

 

If she's a book gal I'd stick with that. Its good to include her a bit in the selection process. She'll gain a better sense of ownership in whatever program you choose that way. I hate to ask, but did she ever like Calvert or MM to being with?

[ChicoryChick]

 

 

I have looked at TT Pre Algebra but frankly, it's cost prohibitive considering she well (and easily) tests out of it (even with her somewhat lacking in percents). Solidly tests out of it and easily into

Algebra 1. TT would really be my first choice, at least for the rest of this year, while my 5 month old is still needing to nurse so frequently... I just can't seem to find a good fit for her unless I (again) move ahead to TT Algebra. I'm not sure that I'm will to shell out another almost $200 for a program she will be with for maybe a few months before she needs to move up to the next level (unless I buy the Algebra 1 instead of prealgebra).

She hates computer based programs. Right now my biggest concern is helping her again enjoy math. While she doesn't love it like she loves science, she needs to enjoy it again if she wants to go into a science field later in life. She's pretty firmly against a computer based program (she's a textbook kind of gal). I *could* do TT just for the rest of this year, and then at the beginning of the fall semester (new school year) move on to Jacob's (which is what she wants). From what I understand, while Jacob's isn't spiral, it has review sets in every lesson (at least, that's what I was told on the board).

I certainly do not undervalue prealgebra, but my husband is of the old school - they didn't have "prealgebra", they had arithmetic and then algebra, lol. Once arithmetic was solid, they moved on to algebra. Given his career and background, I tend to defer to him when it comes to math, but he's been busy traveling. Lol.

 

ETA: I am going to look at the new version of TT Pre A to see if it adds anything that it didn't have last time I looked at it.

 

 

You could just purchase the TT workbook and answer key, it is much cheaper than the CD-roms and may work better since your dd does not like computer based programs.

[AimeeM]

C'mon OhElizabeth, you? Never! :D Well, honestly, its everyone's various opinions that keep this board interesting. So I'll give my 2c worth. I also think Pre-Algebra is undervalued. And not all Pre-A programs are created equal by a long shot. But that's another topic. If she likes Jacobs I say how about this option. Continue 3x a week working on Percents and any other Pre-A subject areas she is not strong on such as negative numbers, etc... depending on which scope you are looking at. Then introduce Jacobs Algebra 2x per week or vice vera (2x/3x) This will give her an incentive with light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately there are no shorcuts to solid math skills beyond hard work. But being able to work ahead a bit can be fun and more interesting than percents *every day*. I did that with ds11 when he was finishing up percents letting him jump ahead once per week and work on Pre-A, where is also discovered percents and fractions yet again! But now he is done with percents and happily learning to graph linear equations in Pre-A.

 

If she's a book gal I'd stick with that. Its good to include her a bit in the selection process. She'll gain a better sense of ownership in whatever program you choose that way. I hate to ask, but did she ever like Calvert or MM to being with?

One perk of Jacob's is that it has a strong prealgebra "review" in the beginning, from what I hear. I like your idea of continuing to work on percents and allowing her to work through Jacob's, slowly, as well. She currently has two math sessions every day - morning board work (math) and her main math assignment.

She did enjoy Math Mammoth... kind of. Coming from a traditional program before that (CLE), it was very *different* for her. With that said, it simply wasn't working on its own (no retention and, frankly, that it offered so many different ways of doing the same thing, it was confusing the heck out of her). Calvert was a whim for me. Not a great one, but eh - I needed a spine since MM only seems to be working as a supplement for her. I plan to keep Math Mammoth 6 because it has a very strong percents section and I love her decimals chapters. Makes great board work for her.

[PeterPan]

C'mon OhElizabeth, you? Never! :D Well, honestly, its everyone's various opinions that keep this board interesting. So I'll give my 2c worth. I also think Pre-Algebra is undervalued. And not all Pre-A programs are created equal by a long shot.

 

:lol: Yeah, some of these things you don't really get a feel for until you hold them in your hands and compare them side by side to other books. There's also been a big bump-up with some of the newer materials. Not all of the algebra 1 texts are so entry-level anymore, especially BJU's.