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No Fluff Algebra 2 and/or Pre-Cal?


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Hello Hive,

 

My oldest is spending WAY too much time on math. He's going into a non-math related field, and I'm at the point that I just want him to keep progressing, but put math on the back burner for a little bit. He's ahead so he can afford to slow it down so he can devote more time to other subjects. Right now he's really showing some self-motivation in some other subjects and I'd like to allow him more time for them.

 

He's been doing Saxon Algebra 2. When we've tried to slow it down, say do 30-45 minutes a day, he's getting 5-7 problems done, tops. He's about halfway through the book, and honestly the difficulty level is just higher than what we need now.

 

I'd like to find something where he can cover some more ground in that 30-45 minutes. I'd love to hear recommendations of a few "get 'er done" higher math options.

 

His ultimate goal in math is to do well on the ACT/SAT and know enough to handle college chemistry/physics. Precalculus is as far as I think he'll go with it.

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts.

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Hello Hive,

 

My oldest is spending WAY too much time on math. He's going into a non-math related field, and I'm at the point that I just want him to keep progressing, but put math on the back burner for a little bit. He's ahead so he can afford to slow it down so he can devote more time to other subjects. Right now he's really showing some self-motivation in some other subjects and I'd like to allow him more time for them.

 

He's been doing Saxon Algebra 2. When we've tried to slow it down, say do 30-45 minutes a day, he's getting 5-7 problems done, tops. He's about halfway through the book, and honestly the difficulty level is just higher than what we need now.

 

I'd like to find something where he can cover some more ground in that 30-45 minutes. I'd love to hear recommendations of a few "get 'er done" higher math options.

 

His ultimate goal in math is to do well on the ACT/SAT and know enough to handle college chemistry/physics. Precalculus is as far as I think he'll go with it.

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts.

 

 

My first question would be where is he doing his math? I ask, because at one point my son was going off to his room so that he could concentrate better. However, that only exposed him to other distractions--and from time to time we found it necessary to have him work in a more public part of the house. If the difficulty level is a problem I believe you're better off diagnosing it now rather than later. Does he need to cast back and solidify a few pre-algebra concepts? You've already cut back and,, if I understood you correctly, it's still not going well. That would be a red flag for me.

 

My son's experience taking pre-calc at the community college was that mastery of basic algebra skills is essential in order to do well in precalc. A shaky precalc experience translates into disaster once you get to calculus. It saves time in the long run to diagnose problems accurately then reinforce/review basic skills as needed. It may be that your son needs to deepen his understanding; it's sometimes possible to learn a paradigm and do well for a time, but flounder when new or more difficult material comes along. That's where math supplements (Khan Academy?) can be helpful.

 

My honest opinion is that dialing back on math may save time in the short term but cost you grief later on. However, in my universe there are three things which were never allowed to be put on the back burner: math, grammar, and composition. YMMV :D

  • Good algebra skills are important for most high school level science--inadequate math skills limit progress in science--I don't know of any way around that.

  • Young people often change their minds about majors and I know firsthand the dangers of making assumptions that a dc "isn't planning on a field that requires lots of math."

  • Many non-STEM majors today require applied calculus, and the list seems to be growing.

  • Most college level physics courses are calc based.

  • Perhaps it's time to outsource/supplement if it's the difficulty level more than a time issue?

 

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I signed my dd up for ALEKS. She is doing the SAT Mastery right now, which covers everything from basic arithmetic to geometry and algebra. It's been great for discovering her holes and fixing them. It's $19.99 per month per child and worth every penny. I finally breathed a sigh of relief when I found it, as I am not a math person and it was hard for me to teach her.

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His ultimate goal in math is to do well on the ACT/SAT and know enough to handle college chemistry/physics. Precalculus is as far as I think he'll go with it.

 

I would suggest sitting close by to him for several days to try and get some more specifics about what is slowing him down. My kids did get mentally bogged down by Saxon's "spiral" method as they felt they could never get in the groove of doing several similar problems in a row. Ultimately a mastery program was better for them. But it could also be an issue of focus/distractions, etc. Are you using the DIVE or Red Wagon instructional DVD's? That might help him to have a better understanding if that's the reason for his struggle. I think having more specifics will guide you in your decision.

 

Based on your above goals, you need to persevere. The SAT requires solid Alg2 skills and it will certainly boost ACT scores as well (though the skill set is a bit different). My oldest dd has been sucessful taking Pre-Calc. at the college level, but very advanced algebra skills and familiarity with Trig. functions were key to that. Those skills were reviewed, but only briefly and the level of problems she's faced has been quite difficult.

 

From a science perspective, if he plans to tackle Chem. or Physics at the college level advanced math skills will absolutely be necessary. The only exception would be a degree track that offered non-major classes that were totally conceptual/informal in nature.

 

You also mention that he is somewhat ahead. If he's a 9th or 10th grader then you would have some time to slow down the pacing. I'd suggest slowing down the pacing, rather than dropping rigor honestly.

 

While both of mine have had an idea about their major plans in 9th and 10th grade it really is too early to make limiting decisions based on what they think that they'd like to do. What career goals is he thinking of?

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I'd like to find something where he can cover some more ground in that 30-45 minutes. I'd love to hear recommendations of a few "get 'er done" higher math options.

 

His ultimate goal in math is to do well on the ACT/SAT and know enough to handle college chemistry/physics. Precalculus is as far as I think he'll go with it.

 

 

TT would fit the bill: the lessons are pretty short, the problem sets are not difficult, it's specifically designed to cover what's on the SAT, and they also offer Precalc. The self-grading version of Alg2 was just released this summer.

 

Jackie

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I agree with Jackie. We used the ALEKS trial for two months, but I like TT better. We are currently using Algebra 2, and I think there are 5 examples and 20 questions per lesson. My son has recently been doing the all problems in the workbook and then putting in the answers when he is done. He can usually finish within an hour, but it used to take him longer when he listened to everything. I think TT is the fun version of Saxon. My oldest struggled through Saxon math and hated it. TT has the review like Saxon, but the explanations are clearer. I am a mathy person, but I hated teaching Saxon. Over the years, I have used Calvert, RightStart, Chalkdust, Keystone and TeachingTextbooks for math. TT is the only curriculum that I returned to after using it previously. I had stopped because I thought it might not be rigorous enough. However, I don't think my son learned as much Algebra I and Geometry as he would have if I had let him stick with TT. I think part of math success is that the concepts stick with the child. Some kids do great with Saxon and others need a different approach.

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We used Saxon through Algebra 2. It was okay, difficult, but okay until the end of Algebra 2 and all the geometry started piling up. After looking at Saxon Adv Math, I knew we had to do something else. But, the problem with switching at this level is the geometry. Saxon wraps geometry into Algebra 1, 2 and Adv. Math. I started looking at options and realized if dd did not do at least the first 60 or so lessons of Adv. Math, then she needed more geometry to fill out a well rounded geometry program. But, she was already about 2/3 geometry complete when looking at other programs. She also had a fair amount of trig. I was very concerned about how to make a smooth transition.

 

I looked at TOC for several geometry curriculum and laid out a plan to fill in the gaps. I also purchased a trig suppliment to help explain various trig concepts, such as polar coordinates that were still foggy. After spending part of the summer and all of Sept. checking the geometry (and some trig) boxes, we started Lial's PreCalculus. It has a pretty hefty review section IMHO and excellent cdroms. Lial's has a different format. It is a good fit for us. Dd has had many "ah ha" moments working through Lials. She is understanding concepts better and quicker than before the switch. I plan to start my youngest with Lial's algebra when she finishes Horizons pre-algebra. But, I am very new to the program. We have only used PreCalculus a short time and I've not used their algebra yet. Jann in TX would be a much better resource as she has used it longer.

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I signed my dd up for ALEKS. She is doing the SAT Mastery right now, which covers everything from basic arithmetic to geometry and algebra.

 

My son is doing ALEKS, too. He's doing their Algebra 2 course, and I'm embarrassed to tell you how little time he's spending per day. He didn't start the course until November, having washed out with the Life of Fred/Khan combo I had planned, and he will have no trouble finishing by the beginning of June.

 

I'm struggling with feeling like it's "not enough," but the reality of where we are right now is that it's a positive thing for us to have a couple of subjects in which he's having an easy time being successful.

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