Mneumonics

[zenjenn]

So I've been reading Moonwalking with Einstein and it has me wondering whether it might be worth the investment to teach some of these mnemonic methods to my kids. (And for that matter, learn them myself!)

 

For example, The Major System.

 

Has anyone taught this stuff to their kids? Has it worked out well for you?

[regentrude]

sounds interesting - but for what purpose would I need a system that lets me memorize numbers?

I have not come across any occasion in my life where this would have been useful.

[zenjenn]

Did you never have to memorize dates in school? Values in science/math (speed of light, pi to multiple digits, one astronomical unit, e, etc.)

 

Also, just in life - social security numbers (I know mine, but I am constantly having to look up husband's or my children's whenever it comes up), library card number (fumbling around looking for the card when I try to renew or check out something online), credit card numbers, etc. Heck - phone numbers. These days I have to wrack my brain to remember even my OWN home phone number, as I rarely have to dial it (if I do call home, I press a button on my cell.) I think it would be useful.

 

Though, the book talks about learning all kinds of methods for memorizing words, lists, poetry, etc. Memory methods that were a common part of education when books were non-existent or rare. I think about how useful that would have been in college to be able to read through a list of microbiology terms and learn them in an a much shorter amount of time. (Which is what people using these methods do - learn random information perfectly in minutes.)

[regentrude]

Did you never have to memorize dates in school? Values in science/math (speed of light, pi to multiple digits, one astronomical unit, e, etc.)

 

Dates in school -yes, but somehow I learn them through the context and it never gave me trouble - learning a mnemonic language and inventing a word for each date sounds like way more trouble than simply remembering that Hastings was in 1066.

 

Values in science: I am a physicist and never had to memorize any numbers. The ones you use frequently, you simply know from using. Memorizing digits of pi is completely useless; if you have no calculator, you won't use an approximation that is more accurate than 3.14. If you do have a calculator, you don't need to know the digits.

 

Also, just in life - social security numbers (I know mine, but I am constantly having to look up husband's or my children's whenever it comes up), library card number (fumbling around looking for the card when I try to renew or check out something online), credit card numbers, etc. Heck - phone numbers. These days I have to wrack my brain to remember even my OWN home phone number, as I rarely have to dial it (if I do call home, I press a button on my cell.) I think it would be useful.

 

I admit, I do not know my social - because I never bothered and hardly need it.

But I still remember all phone numbers of my childhood friends, just from repeated dialing back when (none of them lives there any more, but the numbers are in my long term memory after 30 years). Certainly knowing people's phone numbers might be useful if one loses one's phone with the numbers stored - but is anybody really going to the trouble of memorizing phone numbers on the odd chance that they lose their phone?

 

(Which is what people using these methods do - learn random information perfectly in minutes.)

 

This was not something I ever had to do, but I can see how that might be nice for some fields like medicine. It also makes more sense to me- it was just the link about the numbers that had me really puzzled: who is memorizing numbers this way, and for what purpose (other than to impress people or win at game shows)?

[zenjenn]

My husband is an engineer and uses pi to 8 digits regularly on paper.

 

I think if you remember the phone numbers of childhood friends or can easily remember an arbitrary date, you have a better head for numbers than most people.I do not think most people are so lucky. :D I can remember my *own* phone number from childhood, but not anyone else's from back then,

 

I was thinking even in terms of one of my kids who has dyscalculia/dyslexia and has a terrible time with math facts - (and mental math troubles her too, because she has to really stop and think about which *direction* she's going in to add/subtract.) However, we used a DVD for multiplication/division that used pictures and narratives to help students memorize those facts, and she learned them in an hour. So she can do multiplication/division no problem, but still struggles with addition and subtraction. I had been looking for a similar DVD but to no avail (most people, including my second child, just use mental math if they don't recall for addition/subtraction.)

 

Yes, there would be an initial investment in learning the system but it's not crazy or anything (there ARE crazy systems out there who people want to compete in memory competitions, but the Major System appears fairly simple to me.)

 

Would it be worth it to teach children? I have no idea. That's why I'm asking here to see if anyone has experience doing so.

[LibraryLover]

OK. Misunderstood the question.

[GailV]

Hmm, at first I couldn't see the point of mnemonics for memorizing numbers -- everyone in my family sees patterns in number sequences, even if they're odd patterns that aren't discernible to others and are nearly indescribable, they allow us to quickly memorize phone numbers, etc. I can "feel" this happening when I look at a sequence I want to remember, although I can't really describe the process other than saying that certain numbers seem to have relationships that "make sense" to me. I guess it's my own personal form of the Major System, and I never thought about whether anyone else does it because, like I say, dh and dds do it too.

 

OTOH, it sounds as though your dd most specifically does NOT see those types of patterns, and needs other helps. It's really sort of fascinating to think about. Why not try it? What's the down side?

 

BTW, the mnemonics that LibraryLover mentions don't have anything to do with number patterns in the way I'm thinking about them. Memorizing the order of operations involves math, but it's very different than what Regentrude was talking about in her post (at least how I interpreted her post).

 

And, a totally beside-the-point comment -- we were talking about mnemonics a couple of weeks ago regarding memorizing the planets and taxonomy*, and my younger dd asked why no one had ever come up with a mnemonic for remembering the alphabet. It's become a running joke in our house.

 

Edited to add our family's version for taxonomy: Klingon Potty Chairs On Freighters Glow Softly. Very unforgettable.

[Dana]

Not to mention that PEMDAS messes up a number of students because multiplication and division are equal operations. You don't do multiplication first.

 

I warn students every semester and every semester I catch a number of them messing it up.

I hate FOIL too.

 

<grump>

[zenjenn]

Yes, the mnemonics listed here are some of the everyday single-use ones. The book I mentioned talks more about memory *training* that can be more generalized (as opposed to the item-specific mnemonics shared in this thread.)

 

I actually experimented myself this evening using a method I read about called a "memory palace" - where you use visual images (loci) assigned to a journey you can visualize in your mind - usually using a place you are very familiar with, like your childhood home. As an experiment I gave myself 10 minutes to memorized the first 20 US presidents in order (I only knew 1, 2, 3, and 16.) I was able to do it without much difficulty. So the story goes, people who use this method regularly can get exceedingly good at it.

 

Moonwalking with Einstein is not an instructional or self-help book, but rather a nonfiction book about memory in general, but I just find the ideas in it very fascinating and am curious about applying some of these concepts to my kids' educations.

I was kind of disappointed in Moonwalking with Einstein, because I'd really like to learn a better method to memorize poetry. Or any good method, really. Even though quick memorization of poetry was an event in the memory games, the book didn't present any good methods for memorizing verse. The author just said this is "hard". The methods he presents to memorize cards, lists of items and numbers didn't seem to generalize to literature.

[regentrude]

because I'd really like to learn a better method to memorize poetry. Or any good method, really.

 

 

I find it easiest to memorize poetry if it is set to music. Memorizing a long 19th century poem if it is set as an art song is much easier than without.

Other methods I found very successful for poetry: copy the poem by hand (no printout; the important thing is the act of writing) . Carry around the piece of paper and recite while walking - the walking reinforces the rhythm and helps tremendously.

HTH.

[regentrude]

Not to mention that PEMDAS messes up a number of students because multiplication and division are equal operations. You don't do multiplication first.

 

I warn students every semester and every semester I catch a number of them messing it up.

I hate FOIL too.

 

 

Yes, these are awful. Especially since these are things that should be understood and not memorized by rote.

 

There is one math mnemonic I do like, though: SOHCAHTOA. (And since it is simply about definitions, there is no understanding that goes missing). I was not aware of this one until my mid-thirties, because in German there is no equivalent.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Back in the day, I took an 8 week course in psyche on this. There are a lot of books out there on different techniques and approaches. It's second nature to me now to use memory aids. God knows I need it now..

 

It is definite worth studying about, the loci method and visual/musically - whatever works for you and fits the best.

 

Moonwalking with Einstein is imho a starter guide and overview on some of the more well-known ways, but I think adding some Oliver Sack type books is helpful also.

 

I think about this often when working with the kid with timelines; how amazing is it to visually connect all of world history and other events to four major categories? Absolutely brilliant.

[zenjenn]

I was kind of disappointed in Moonwalking with Einstein, because I'd really like to learn a better method to memorize poetry.

 

I don't think the book is intended to be instructional in any way. It's just a book about memory (and the subculture of memory sport) for those that are entirely unfamiliar with it. While that intended audience can glean some useful information out of it that can be applied, I would think after the dabbling one would need to do some additional reading, for sure.

 

One*mom, thanks for the additional recommendation. Have you taught the loci method to your kids? If so, did they find it useful?