Element Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I am starting to be concerned about dd7's memory. She just can't seem to hold things in her head, and she has daily meltdowns related to everything being "too hard." Today, for example, we were working on math and part of the (bigger) problem was 40 + 10. She just blanked. Finally, she said "Forty-nine.... Forty-ten?" She has been able to count to 50 since she was 3, but she just couldn't get there today. She just gets overwhelmed by everything before she even looks at it. Even though she is 7.5, I have her doing mostly first grade work and she still has daily meltdowns. She takes ballet with the youngest class available (4-6 year olds) and she is always a step behind because she just has to follow what the rest of the children are doing. She can spell just about anything and she reads fiction at a fifth or sixth grade level, but any nonfiction, writing, or worksheets seem to send her into panic mode and she ends up in tears. I don't know. Does this sound like a memory thing? We have a university nearby that offers the WISC-IV, which I know has a Working Memory component. I thought we might be able to get some answers if she was given this test. Is there a better memory test available through our pediatrician? Is this just how a normal 7.5 year old acts? (My ds is HG with an average Working Memory score, so perhaps I don't know what "normal" is for a 7 year old?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 FWIW, I pursued IQ testing when my dd was that age and the college psych departments I called blew me off. Not that they'll blow you off, but they blew me off and I let them. Anyways, x number years later we ended up doing a full eval. Might be more helpful to you to have the full eval. With ours, yes they did working memory, but you got it lots of ways. It got hit with several tests, so he could compare the different ways it showed up. For instance she might have x digit span forward, but when they did it backward (n-backs?) in a different test, different result. And he could compare those to show weakness that went beyond mere digit span score. Also processing speed fits in that. If I could say, what you described was, in our house, caused by low processing speed. At the moment I can't even tell you what test they did to get that. (late, I'm tired) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Element Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 Thank you for your input, OhElizabeth! The local (private) university offers the WISC-IV w/ FSIQ (not GAI) for a very affordable fixed rate. They do not do extended norms testing so the actual IQ could be a few points low if a child hits the ceiling on a subtest but, considering IQ wasn't my main concern, I thought it would be a good place to start at under $150. It would give me a processing speed index, working memory score, and the other (verbal, perceptional, etc) standard parts of an IQ test. I just checked and, yes, it would only give me one digit-span score so that is a big downside. Another huge downside of this is that there is virtually no explanation of variances. The psychologist spent maybe 20 minutes with me after ds's test, explaining his scores. Three years later, I still don't quite know why he has such a low processing speed (compared to his other scores) or what to do about it. So, what you're saying is probably exactly what I need to do: Talk to pediatrician, get a referral, get a full evaluation. I think I was looking at an "easy way out" since so much of this year was spent dealing with specialists for her physical issues. I just can't imagine going back to her pediatrician and saying, "Hey, I'm going to need another referral/test for yet another issue." I think I was also afraid that I would be told to put her back in public school, since she never (to my knowledge?) had any behavioral or learning issues in ps. Again, thank you for your input. I always appreciate your advice and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 A quick screening for working memory is to ask your child to repeat some 4 word phrases back to you. Try about 20-30 of them. If she stumbles on more than a couple, then she likely has a problem. If she can do those, then move up to 5 word phrases. If she misses a large proportion of those, then she likely has some difficulties but not quite as bad as if she missed the 3-4 word phrases. The good thing about that, is that the screening tool can also be used as a practice sheet. My DD was identified with a working memory problem and we were told to keep practicing the phrases to help her. We also use Brainware Safari but a lot of it is too hard right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Element Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 Wow. I just checked out Brainware Safari and it does look hard! I watched the demo and *I* would have a difficult time completing the higher level challenges. It looks like something certainly worthwhile, though, and I see that it is available over at HSBC so I just may have to check that out. I will definitely try the phrases test as well. Thank you for your suggestions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geodob Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Though working memory is actually a combination of 3 working memories, auditory, visual and spatial. So that each needs to be looked at individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 A quick screening for working memory is to ask your child to repeat some 4 word phrases back to you. Try about 20-30 of them. If she stumbles on more than a couple, then she likely has a problem. If she can do those, then move up to 5 word phrases. If she misses a large proportion of those, then she likely has some difficulties but not quite as bad as if she missed the 3-4 word phrases. Another test, would be to do the same thing with numbers which would remove context cues from the mix. I've heard that the average child should be able to do one digit for each year of age up to age 7. The digit span test on the WISC IV is a little more complicated. They are given numbers and told to repeat them in forward and reverse order. Letter-number sequencing is the other subtest for working memory, where they are given numbers and letters mixed up and told to repeat them in alphabetical and numerical order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Thank you for your input, OhElizabeth! The local (private) university offers the WISC-IV w/ FSIQ (not GAI) for a very affordable fixed rate. They do not do extended norms testing so the actual IQ could be a few points low if a child hits the ceiling on a subtest but, considering IQ wasn't my main concern, I thought it would be a good place to start at under $150. It would give me a processing speed index, working memory score, and the other (verbal, perceptional, etc) standard parts of an IQ test. I just checked and, yes, it would only give me one digit-span score so that is a big downside. Another huge downside of this is that there is virtually no explanation of variances. The psychologist spent maybe 20 minutes with me after ds's test, explaining his scores. Three years later, I still don't quite know why he has such a low processing speed (compared to his other scores) or what to do about it. So, what you're saying is probably exactly what I need to do: Talk to pediatrician, get a referral, get a full evaluation. I think I was looking at an "easy way out" since so much of this year was spent dealing with specialists for her physical issues. I just can't imagine going back to her pediatrician and saying, "Hey, I'm going to need another referral/test for yet another issue." I think I was also afraid that I would be told to put her back in public school, since she never (to my knowledge?) had any behavioral or learning issues in ps. Again, thank you for your input. I always appreciate your advice and experience. The bolded part is something we share. I so very much sympathize with that feeling of, "I cannot possibly face them to ask for another referral." All I can suggest is to do what you can to develop a good relationship with your pediatrician and the people who work in the office, especially the ones who do referrals. I think it's okay to express your concerns with them, and let them know you are thankful for your help. If your pediatrician has been kept in the loop about the physical issues, he might be aware that learning issues can coexist and I think he will support you in covering all your bases. About having no behavioral or learning issues in school, I don't think that's all that unusual. If there are issues, it could be that they would have become apparent over time, at home as well as in school. Bright kids can compensate very well for quite a while; then the cracks start to show as the expectations increase through the grades. And, I think behavioral issues can be most obvious when they are at home with you, where they feel the most secure and free to let their hair down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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