MotherMayI Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 We have a Saint Bernard who is over 7 years old. We rescued her a couple of years ago, and she has been a dream until lately. She came to us with hip dysplasia- it didn't seem to bother her, but it was noticable. Over the last couple of weeks she has clearly been in pain from her hips. She has snapped at my dh, my children, and my other dogs, and she pinned my other Saint Bernard on her back with teeth bared and an intensity that I have never seen from her. She generally yelps and bustles away if there is any type of contact on her backside. I have been giving her aspirin for her pain which hasn't made much of an impact. Frankly, I am worried that she will get jostled by one of my children and snap. We are not in a financial position to spend a lot of money on medication- and I doubt that I will be able to trust her around my children even if she is on meds. What would you do? :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Have you taken her to the vet to see what can be done for her? I would suggest that you try giving her shark cartilege glucosamine, because it made a tremendous difference in the condition of both our own dog and in our neighbor's German Shepherd (who was struggling to walk and in a lot of pain, yet after taking the shark cartilege, she was back to playing in the yard again.) The brand we used at the time was St Jon's. The only thing is, the shark cartilege doesn't work instantly. You could see improvement within weeks, but I really think you need to see a vet for something like a steroid shot in the meantime, because she's a big dog and could do some serious damage if she bit someone. But please talk to your vet about all of the options. I know that our vet at the time was skeptical of the shark cartilege tablets, but once he saw the results for himself, he started recommending it to other pet owners whose dogs were having hip and leg problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 First, try ibuprofen instead of aspirin. However, I would take the dog to the vet. I probably would not return home with the dog. I will never have a dog I did not trust around children again. btdt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Ibuprofen is usually NOT recommend for dogs. What kind and how much aspirin have you been giving her? In general buffered aspirin is recommended for dogs, NOT enteric coated. The coating often keeps the aspirin from dissolving at all, or from dissolving at the point in the digestive tract where it can be absorbed effectively. The usual dosage is 5 to 15 mg. per pound of body weight, given every 12 hours as needed. You can give regular human buffered aspirin. Bufferin his hard to find now due to some factory issues, but Walgreens has a store brand simply called TriBuffered or TriBufferin or something like that. You need to give it with food, and of course over time it can cause gastrointestinal issues and it's a blood thinner, so there are potential side effects. A good glucosamine/chondroitin supplement is usually considered a must for dogs with hip dysplasia. My senior dogs have always done well on whatever drug store brand of glucosamine/chondroitin was on sale when I needed to stock up. I crush it up in a pill crusher and sprinkle over their food. Fish oil capsules, given at a high enough dosage (about one capsule for every 10-20 pounds of body weight) have an anti-inflammatory effect and so can be very helpful for things like arthritis. Both glucosamine and fish oil take several weeks to show any effect. Of course there are pain meds you can get from the vet that are probably both safer and more effective than aspirin. But most of them are also much more expensive. Tramadol is probably the least expensive option from a vet. Anything you get from a vet you can check Walmart or other pharmacies to see if you could get it cheaper from them. The vet can give you a prescription. You can also check online pet pharmacies. Providing a supportive bed in a warm spot can help. Crib mattresses can make great dog beds, and you can often find ones in good condition at yard sales for almost nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolly Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Ibuprofen is usually NOT recommend for dogs. What kind and how much aspirin have you been giving her? In general buffered aspirin is recommended for dogs, NOT enteric coated. The coating often keeps the aspirin from dissolving at all, or from dissolving at the point in the digestive tract where it can be absorbed effectively. The usual dosage is 5 to 15 mg. per pound of body weight, given every 12 hours as needed. You can give regular human buffered aspirin. Bufferin his hard to find now due to some factory issues, but Walgreens has a store brand simply called TriBuffered or TriBufferin or something like that. You need to give it with food, and of course over time it can cause gastrointestinal issues and it's a blood thinner, so there are potential side effects. A good glucosamine/chondroitin supplement is usually considered a must for dogs with hip dysplasia. My senior dogs have always done well on whatever drug store brand of glucosamine/chondroitin was on sale when I needed to stock up. I crush it up in a pill crusher and sprinkle over their food. Fish oil capsules, given at a high enough dosage (about one capsule for every 10-20 pounds of body weight) have an anti-inflammatory effect and so can be very helpful for things like arthritis. Both glucosamine and fish oil take several weeks to show any effect. Of course there are pain meds you can get from the vet that are probably both safer and more effective than aspirin. But most of them are also much more expensive. Tramadol is probably the least expensive option from a vet. Anything you get from a vet you can check Walmart or other pharmacies to see if you could get it cheaper from them. The vet can give you a prescription. You can also check online pet pharmacies. Providing a supportive bed in a warm spot can help. Crib mattresses can make great dog beds, and you can often find ones in good condition at yard sales for almost nothing. Sorry for the recommendation on ibuprofen. It is what my vet recommended for my dog's arthritis, so I assumed it was safe. It works better on the pain than aspirin. We were not concerned about side effects as we were just buying time. Looking it up right now, I found that the above info on it is correct. However, aspirin is also not recommended because it has the same affects as ibuprofen (but not quite as harsh) and it also causes damage to joint cartilage. The glucosamine and fish oil have no proven benefits and can also cause additional problems if overused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Opinions vary, but I consider it unnatural for an aged dog in pain to be alive. Nature would have taken care of this, and I would step in and put this dog out of her suffering. How miserable she must be to have a change in personality. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama Geek Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Make sure you tell your vet about the aspirin that you have been giving. I've been told they can't give a stronger pain med until the aspirin has been out of their system for something like a month, if I am remembering right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Very large dogs don't live very long, so at 7 your St Bernard is quite elderly. I'm trying to be gentle, and I understand finances, but dogs come with medical needs and if you can't afford to attend to any, you probably ought not have a dog. The dog is in pain, but there are many medications that can help. Glucosamine, fish oil, they can help, but a prescription med like rymadyl (can't spell that) will be much more effective. He deserves at least a cursory vet visit. I think Tramadol can be purchased very cheap now via walmart pharmacies, and rymadyl (am anti-inflammatory for arthritis) has a generic version finally but it is still expensive- my dog takes it. It is unfair to punish the dogs behavior if his medical needs are being ignored- he is an animal, and cannot medically take care of himself, that is your job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 The glucosamine and fish oil have no proven benefits and can also cause additional problems if overused. If you use Google Scholar for searching, you'll find plenty of abstracts of studies indicating that both glucosamine and fish oil are beneficial for dogs with osteoarthritis and similar conditions. If the OP is interested, I'll be glad to post links to some of those abstracts later today when I have more time. When researching glucosamine it's imperative to differentiate between studies conducted on humans and on dogs. From what my vet and my internal medicine doctor tell me, only about 50 percent of humans produce the enzyme necessary to metabolize glucosamine, while all dogs produce the needed enzyme. I haven't independently researched that to verify it myself or even find out what that enzyme is, but since two medical professionals stated it, I tend to believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyA Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Of course there are pain meds you can get from the vet that are probably both safer and more effective than aspirin. But most of them are also much more expensive. Tramadol is probably the least expensive option from a vet. Anything you get from a vet you can check Walmart or other pharmacies to see if you could get it cheaper from them. The vet can give you a prescription. You can also check online pet pharmacies. My dog takes Tramadol three times a day for arthritis. We have the vet call in his prescription to a regular pharmacy, and I think I paid $6 last time for a 60 day supply! It is a narcotic pain killer and won't do anything for inflammation, but it's the best alternative we could find. For us, it has zero side effects, even with long-term use. We had previously tried the usual prescription anti-inflammatories, which worked very well but eventually caused too much stomach upset. When we did use an anti-inflammatory, we bought the generic version of Rimadyl (called Novox) at Drs. Foster and Smith. If you are able to take care of the pain, the aggression may very well disappear. You could try temporarily keeping her in another area of the house (baby gates are handy for this) until you see how she is with some new medication. Good luck. Just wanted to add: the Tramadol does work quite well for us. Without it, my dog has trouble going up stairs and even walking down the driveway. With it, he is able to run and play almost like a puppy. Please do see a vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey Mom Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Just to give you some numbers (because I was looking for this for my dog a few nights ago): My labrador, 94lbs., has spinal arthritis. It affects her hind legs in a way similar to hip dysplasia. Our vet prescribed the following pain medication and anti-inflammatory: Gabapentin 300mg, 2 x daily, 30 day supply - $28.10 Carprofen, 100mg, 2 x daily, 30 day supply - $68.30 So, for $3.21/day my dog is no longer wimpering in her sleep. Within 24 hours, she was actually "body-wagging" when we came home. She hasn't done that in about 6 months. You might even be able to find those prescriptions cheaper elsewhere. Those were the prices I paid at the vet two days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 We currently have a 7 year old HUGE (156 lb) Leonberger foster with us who came to us with such bad arthritis, hip dysplasia and an untreated ACL tear that he could barely shuffle. Could NOT MOVE. We picked him up November 5th, and got him in to see our vet on Nov. 13. Our vet put him on Tramadol and Meloxicam. The Meloxicam isn't expensive, and in fact the vet wrote us a prescription to fill at our local CVS pharmacy. It was under $15. So he started on the meds on November 14, and here is him today: Really--- watch the video. He could NOT move. I urge you to do something to ease this dog's suffering. She does NOT have to live this way, and it doesn't have to be a major investment. I'm trying to be as gentle as possible. Good luck with him. astrid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 We do fish oil in large doses, much larger than for people, my 100 lb dog gets 4 krill oil a day along with CoQ10, glucosamine and condroiton, and really good low carb food. My old girl has a heated bed too which really helps but the most important has been keeping her lean. Most dogs are fat, they should have palpable ribs and a defined waist tuck. No cow hips or scary ribs, but thinner than what most dogs are. She is 15 with many problems but her joints were in great shape until the last year or so. We also do meloxicam and tramadol. The tramadol was very cheap at Walmart pharmacy and only made her extra sleepy for a week or so. She fell off the couch once and was very sore, the vet did a cortisone injection and it helped ease her pain and swelling almost right away and let her heal much more comfortably. The shot was like 15 dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy in Ky Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Our Great Pyrenees has hip dysplasia, which causes his knee cap to dislocate. He is on Rimadyl, but it doesn't seem to be working as well. He is worse in cold weather. This thread makes me think I need to take him back to the vet for stronger medicine. He is only 2 years old. The hip dysplasia started showing up before he turned one. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherMayI Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Thanks for all of the replies, I lost this thread on Friday and couldn't find it with the board changes. After reading some of your suggestions and success stories, I went to PetSmart and picked up a Joint Health product. I gave it to her right away, and within 24 hours she wasn't wimpering anymore. Her pain and snapping came on so quickly (I now see that the weather change probably caused it), that I really didn't think that anything could take it away, and make me feel like my kids weren't safe in her presence. I came here thinking that there was only one option, and that her next vet visit would be her last. We have a vet appointment scheduled for Thursday. I am hopeful that the vet can prescribe an affordable Rx. I will be taking with me a list of suggestions from you all. I am very encouraged by Astrid's video. That is amazing! I have been keeping Daisy away from the kids during the high energy times of the day, and I have been testing her tolerance by petting and brushing her backside, and she has not even let out a wimper or a yelp. If a joint supplement can do this much for her, I am confident that the vet can keep her pain-free and allow her a good quality of life where she won't feel the need to "warn" us to stay away from her backside. Thank you all again for your comments. I normally google every little thing, but I feared for the worse...your expertise and advice gave me the confidence that there were solutions out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherMayI Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 If you get a chance, I would be interested in reading the abstracts that you are referring to. Thank you! If you use Google Scholar for searching, you'll find plenty of abstracts of studies indicating that both glucosamine and fish oil are beneficial for dogs with osteoarthritis and similar conditions. If the OP is interested, I'll be glad to post links to some of those abstracts later today when I have more time. When researching glucosamine it's imperative to differentiate between studies conducted on humans and on dogs. From what my vet and my internal medicine doctor tell me, only about 50 percent of humans produce the enzyme necessary to metabolize glucosamine, while all dogs produce the needed enzyme. I haven't independently researched that to verify it myself or even find out what that enzyme is, but since two medical professionals stated it, I tend to believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 These are some studies I found with a very quick search. I didn't spend much time reviewing any of them. There may be better studies out there than these, but I'm guessing these present a fairly good representation -- Fish oil supplementation: Abstract ("Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—At least in the short term, dietary supplementation with fish oil omega-3 fatty acids resulted in an improvement in weight bearing in dogs with osteoarthritis.") Abstract ("Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—A fish oil–enriched diet consisting of 1.75 g of EPA/kg of diet and 2.2 g of DHA/kg of diet (dry-matter basis) with an n-6:n-3 fatty acid ratio of 3.4:1 was associated with significant reductions in serum PGE2 concentrations and IL-1 and IL-6 activities. Results supported the use of EPA- and DHA-enriched diets as part of antiinflammatory treatments for dogs with chronic inflammatory diseases. Additional studies in affected dogs are warranted to further evaluate beneficial anti-inflammatory effects of EPA- and DHA-enriched diets.") Abstract ("Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Results suggested that in dogs with chronic osteoarthritis receiving carprofen because of signs of pain, feeding a diet supplemented with fish oil omega-3 fatty acids may allow for a reduction in carprofen dosage.") Glucosamine/chondroitin: Abstract ("Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—A high level of comfort exists for meloxicam that the claimed relationship is scientifically valid and that its use is clinically efficacious for the treatment of osteoarthritis in dogs. A moderate level of comfort exists for carprofen; etodolac; pentosan polysulphate; green-lipped mussels; P54FP; polysulfated glycosaminoglycans; and a combination of chondroitin sulfate, glucosamine hydrochloride, and manganese ascorbate. An extremely low level of comfort exists for hyaluronan.") Abstract ("This is the first report demonstrating that the clinical signs of OA in dogs improved significantly after 70 days of treatment with oral glucosamine hydrochloride and chondroitin sulfate.") Abstract ("CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Analysis of results of this study suggest that prior treatment with GlAm-CS for 21 days had a protective effect against chemically induced synovitis and associated bone remodeling. Prior treatment with GlAm-CS also reduced lameness in dogs with induced synovitis.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeninok Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I firmly believe all domestic western creatures need omega 3 added to our diet. With the loss of grass fed livestock and so much processing we just don't get enough 3. Dogs can't make it from algae and flax oil like we can, so its important to use fish or krill oil at proper dosages for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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