Anyone with some experience in Greek?

[Jayne J]

I want to start Greek with ds next year. He will be 10 and in 5th grade. He will be in his 4th year of Latin (2nd Form Latin).

I am confused about Attic vs. Homeric vs. N.T. Greek. Ideally I'd like ds to be able to read both the New Testament and Homer eventually. Is this too much to ask? How significant is the difference between these different types of Greek?

Which curricula teach which type?

 

Thanks!

 

[Embassy]

I like Athenaze for Attic Greek. I used Hey Andrew for NT Greek and it was a good introduction to the alphabet, but I didn't like it beyond book 2. Code Cracker Greek may be a good place to start.

[Jayne J]

Okay, so it sounds like you are saying, with the goals I stated, we should start with Attic Greek, and at some point do add in Homeric Greek. Gotcha.

 

Would Athenaze be too much for a 10yo? Most of what I have seen seems to be high school level. I don't mind slowing down a bit, but if there is something geared to the younger crowd I'd prefer to do that. We have Code Cracker and plan to start that over the summer.

 

Which programs teach Attic Greek?

[crazyforlatin]

Okay, so it sounds like you are saying, with the goals I stated, we should start with Attic Greek, and at some point do add in Homeric Greek. Gotcha.Would Athenaze be too much for a 10yo? Most of what I have seen seems to be high school level. I don't mind slowing down a bit, but if there is something geared to the younger crowd I'd prefer to do that. We have Code Cracker and plan to start that over the summer.Which programs teach Attic Greek?

 

I bought the entire darn set for DD who is 7. I looked through the first few chapters and it's doable, but the font size would bother her (and me as well). So I'm putting it aside until I figure out what to do next. I know a few members here who use Athenaze with kids 10 and younger, but I think they use it slowly.

 

In the meantime, she has been working on Elementary Greek, which is not Attic Greek but Koine. She loves it and will probably finish the series, only 3 books, by next year. It may not be easy to switch from Koine to Attic, but for the younger kids who do want to study Greek, it's better than nothing. Also, I happen to have a DD who thrives on languages, especially ancient ones :). And, she enjoys memorizing Biblical verses in Greek.

 

Another one that we enjoyed working through just a couple of weeks ago is the sample from Galore Park. Laura Corin gave us an update, and finally it's available. I'm still on the fence due to the font size (again), but it has a few fun activities, more so than Elementary Greek. MP has First Form Greek, but it's not available unless your child enrolls in a class. It seems to teach both Koine and Classical.

[Alessandra]

Attic Greek is Classical Greek, the language of Plato, Sophocles, etc. It's the Greek usually taught in schools (with the exceptions of seminaries, I presume). If you know Attic, you will be able to read masterpieces of literature. Some are easy to read, like Plato, while others, like many of the plays, are more difficult. Also, it is important that Attic was not the only Greek spoken in classical times --there were regional types with different forms and sometimes different alphabets.

 

Koine has a lot of Attic, but also other forms, like Ionian, mixed in. But it is generally much easier to read because a lot of Koine was written by non-native speakers of Greek. Plus, if you read the Bible, it will be familiar. If you are reading the Bible, you might want to start with the Gospels. I remember that, when I was at school, we started reading Mark in class during the first week of school. Save Paul till later -- amazingly long sentences, difficult, IMO. Another part of the Bible worth reading IMO, is the Septuagint (OT) -- the language is quite easy in many books.

 

For the NT, you might want to own one of the editions with the Greek on one page and English on another. My choice for the English would be the RSV, along with Nestlé-Aland Greek, because they are close. There is also a wonderful book, A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek NT, that explains what verb forms, etc you are looking at --very useful for when you are completely at sea.

 

Homer. Hmm, I remember agonizing over our 50 nightly lines. It felt as though I were reading a completely unfamiliar language. (I did do the Homer course earlier in my Greek sequence than I should have.) You might want to consider memorizing a few passages of Homer (using an interlinear translation). That way you could focus on the beauty of the language, rather than struggling. For example, the beginning of the Odyssey has lots of parallel constructions, alliteration, assonance and the rhythm of the dactylic hexameter verse. Reading/memorizing a few passages may give you more appreciation than struggling with a vast quantity of lines.

 

Sorry, I realize I've posted a lot more than what you asked for (!),but in case you like to look ahead....

[Dolphin]

Is your son doing well with First Form Latin? If so, what about First Form Greek?

 

We are doing Hey Andrew, book 1 this year, nice and slow so that he can get familiar with the alphabet (he is in 5th) Then we are planning on doing MP's first form greek with the online academy next year (6th grade). I believe both are Koine.

[Embassy]

I'm using Athenaze with a 10 year old and an 8 year old, but I'm going at a much slower pace. We work towards mastery and move on when ready. It definitely isn't something that I hand to them to do independently. I don't think any foreign language would work well as independent studies at that age. We haven't had any issues with font size. I also purchased a Greek New Testament that we are reading for extra practice.

[Laura Corin]

 

 

Which programs teach Attic Greek?

 

 

Galore Park has an Attic Greek Programme. It came out recently, so I haven't used it, but there are some samples on the website. It should be available outside the UK from horriblebooks.com or bookdepository.co.uk (the latter with free shipping).

 

Laura

[Allearia]

Okay, so it sounds like you are saying, with the goals I stated, we should start with Attic Greek, and at some point do add in Homeric Greek. Gotcha.

 

Would Athenaze be too much for a 10yo? Most of what I have seen seems to be high school level. I don't mind slowing down a bit, but if there is something geared to the younger crowd I'd prefer to do that. We have Code Cracker and plan to start that over the summer.

 

Which programs teach Attic Greek?

 

 

There is not much out there for attic greek at this age. My son did start Athenaze at around 10, it just depends on the kid.

[Jayne J]

Thank you all for your responses. I have poked around a bit and found that Memoria Press is putting out a Greek program (First Form Greek should be available next fall.). According to the folks at MP, FFG would work for both Attic or Koine learners. Does that sound right? It seems that if Attic and Koine were so similar more programs would cater to both, but I really don't know enough about Greek to understand how that might work.

I think that we will do the Greek Alphabet Code Cracker and MP's Greek alphabet intro next year and then move into either Athenaze or Galore Park when we finish. But I am still open to suggestions, and opinions abut MP's claim about their First Form series. We really love FF Latin and ds is thriving with it, so the familiar format might be good, but I am puzzled about how they are going to do both Attic and Koine in one book.

[Corraleno]

According to the folks at MP, FFG would work for both Attic or Koine learners. Does that sound right? It seems that if Attic and Koine were so similar more programs would cater to both, but I really don't know enough about Greek to understand how that might work.

 

Koine is a simplified form of Greek which is less complex than Attic. If you can read Attic, you can read koine, but the reverse is not true. If someone's only interest in learning Greek is to read the NT, then a koine program would be fine, but if you want to be able to read Classical Greek literature as well, then Attic will allow you to do both. And Attic is a lot closer (temporally & grammatically) to Homeric/Epic Greek than koine is, so that's an easier transition as well.

 

Jackie

[Jayne J]

So, Jackie, are you saying that the FFGreek from MP is actually teaching Attic Greek, and thus (since if you can read Attic you can read Koine) teaching Koine by default? So, any Attic Greek program could call itself both? My confusion stems from the fact that MP is not labeling the product Attic or Koine, and other Greek programs do.

[Corraleno]

I'm afraid I don't know anything about MP's Greek program, I was just commenting on the general relationship between Attic and koine. Attic is the dialect spoken in Athens during the Classical period; koine, which means "common," was a simplified form of (mostly Attic) Greek spoken throughout the Mediterranean in the Hellenistic period. Attic grammar is more complex and difficult, so if you can read Attic texts, you can generally also read koine texts (with some variations in vocabulary).

 

Athenaze, for example, is an Attic program, but it includes many brief Biblical passages for translation, along with much more extensive Attic passages. But no one would call it an "Attic & koine program," because the ability to read koine is more a byproduct of reading Attic rather than something that's explicitly taught.

 

Jackie

[Jayne J]

Thanks for the help Jackie. It sounds like you have used Athenaze--if so do you think a 10 yo with a pretty good ability to learn languages (well, Latin anyway) would be capable of doing Athenaze?

Gah. Why does no one write Attic Greek programs for this age! I am a little nervous to push him too much and create antipathy for Greek. That is why I am trying to figure out the FFGreek, since it would be familiar to him, but I am a little hesitant since it does not explicitly say it is an Attic program.

Thanks again--I understand the distinction between Attic and Koine--now to figure out which program...

[Χά�ων]

Thanks for the help Jackie. It sounds like you have used Athenaze--if so do you think a 10 yo with a pretty good ability to learn languages (well, Latin anyway) would be capable of doing Athenaze?

Gah. Why does no one write Attic Greek programs for this age! I am a little nervous to push him too much and create antipathy for Greek. That is why I am trying to figure out the FFGreek, since it would be familiar to him, but I am a little hesitant since it does not explicitly say it is an Attic program.

Thanks again--I understand the distinction between Attic and Koine--now to figure out which program...

 

Athenaze would be fine for a 10 year old IMO. I used it in college and if DS did not have the language and auditory processing problems I would have started it with him this year (he is 8). Go at his pace and be open to breaking down some of the longer translations and lessons and he should be fine.

[Laura Corin]

Thanks for the help Jackie. It sounds like you have used Athenaze--if so do you think a 10 yo with a pretty good ability to learn languages (well, Latin anyway) would be capable of doing Athenaze?

Gah. Why does no one write Attic Greek programs for this age!

 

The new Galore Park programme is for roughly age 10 and up.

 

Laura

[Jayne J]

Well, now, you are all being so helpful that you've got to stop! Someone should make this easy and say, "Oh dear me no, don't do _____________with a ten year old, _____________ is really the only way to go." (I am joking by the way--without my smilies I need to be sure you all know I am kidding.)

 

So, Athenaze, Galore Park, possibly MP's First Form Greek. Off to search the forums for reviews. Thanks so much everyone!

[Allearia]

Thanks for the help Jackie. It sounds like you have used Athenaze--if so do you think a 10 yo with a pretty good ability to learn languages (well, Latin anyway) would be capable of doing Athenaze?

Gah. Why does no one write Attic Greek programs for this age! I am a little nervous to push him too much and create antipathy for Greek. That is why I am trying to figure out the FFGreek, since it would be familiar to him, but I am a little hesitant since it does not explicitly say it is an Attic program.

Thanks again--I understand the distinction between Attic and Koine--now to figure out which program...

 

My ds started Athenaze at 9. So it is possible. The Latin background will help a lot.