Remudamom Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Mil is terrified of being by herself. She insists on having someone with her 24/7. When it got to be too much for family my sil hired some people to be with her all the time. Still, if you were there and left the room for anything she would panic and try to see what you were doing. Recently she fell and broke her hip. She tried to get up from the table by herself. Her caretaker was taking out the trash, thought she would be fine and I'm guessing mil was trying to see if she was being abandoned and that's how she fell. So now she's in a rest home until she recovers enough to be able to go home. She still wants family with her all the time. She calls and begs people to come, says she's having a bad time, etc. I just got a call from her and she said "I'm in a heap of trouble..someone put something in my purse......I don't know how to tell you what it is........I'm afraid a lot of people are going to be hurt." I've never been really fond of her and I don't want to go in there. I am ashamed of how I feel but there it is. Dh said just to ignore the call, that she was probably just trying to manipulate me. He's had his share from her and his sister. I don't know what I want from this post. Just...........ugh. I feel very .............unfeeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 has anyone discussed this with her dr? is she depressed? paranoid or just manipulative? (re: genunie vs feigned.) it needs to be brought up with her caretakers at the rehab facility so they know what they are dealing with. (mom - the boards are being weird again.) eta: what I meant was - the staff at the rehab facility needs to know of her history of manipulation. has she ever been evaluated for mental illness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Whoops, guess I'm on the wrong board now. Moving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 has anyone discussed this with her dr? is she depressed? paranoid or just manipulative? (re: genunie vs feigned.) it needs to be brought up with her caretakers at the rehab facility so they know what they are dealing with. Well, I don't know what has been discussed because sil is in charge of all things mil and at the moment barely anyone in the family is speaking to said sil. Apparently I am the dil that won't help and she is doing all the work and blah blah blah (yet when I try to help I get the scream treatment) Whole nother story. The only good part about this is that I just recently found out that sil is being nasty to everyone. So I'm in good company. I think it might be a little bit of both. I think she is genuinely scared and manipulates to get her way. Either way I can't run in there everyday. I go by when I'm in town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Well, I don't know what has been discussed because sil is in charge of all things mil and at the moment barely anyone in the family is speaking to said sil. Apparently I am the dil that won't help and she is doing all the work and blah blah blah (yet when I try to help I get the scream treatment) Whole nother story. The only good part about this is that I just recently found out that sil is being nasty to everyone. So I'm in good company. I think it might be a little bit of both. I think she is genuinely scared and manipulates to get her way. Either way I can't run in there everyday. I go by when I'm in town. I feel your pain. All you can do is what you can do. Posts like yours make me realize how glad I am to be free of my XMIL....one of the better parts of divorce I must say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Walking with my grandmother down the road of increasing paranoia and dementia, as well as someone else dear to me, I had to make a decision. Both women were essentially a black hole of emotional need, and it was all too easy to get sucked in. I decided exactly what I could give in terms of visitation, set a schedule, and that was that. Every time I was tempted to deviate, there was the blessed schedule to fall back on so that I didn't have to agonize over the decision. I also made a list of reasons TO go ahead and break the schedule, all related to emergencies only. The structure, decided on at the beginning, was a lifesaver for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 :grouphug: I think you're being too hard on yourself. You do drop by, even though MIL has never been your favorite person. That's kind. You don't have to drop everything to be at her beck and call in order to be a decent person. Sounds like your SIL is in a bed of her own making. I wouldn't even give her whole "I do everything" a second thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 :bored: I'll sympathize with you. :iagree: Expect further escalation of her paranoia and great efforts to inflict guilt; I'm not sure what a doctor could do, but checking into it is worth a try. What she wants is just not rational or reasonable. A live-in permanent rest / retirement home with good medical care sounds like what she needs. Listen to your husband on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celticmom Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 :bored: I'll sympathize with you. :iagree: Expect further escalation of her paranoia and great efforts to inflict guilt; I'm not sure what a doctor could do, but checking into it is worth a try. What she wants is just not rational or reasonable. A live-in permanent rest / retirement home with good medical care sounds like what she needs. Listen to your husband on this one. :iagree: She may even need to be on a locked ward so she cannot leave and somehow injure herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I have a MIL that lies to manipulate. I have dealt with it 2 ways. First, just outright calling her out on it. Not fun, but sometimes necessary. Second is by carrying out the lie to the end. Like in your case, I would probably call the main desk and ask them to go check her purse and room. That approach is a lot more fun and has taught my mil to be a lot more careful about the lies she tells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 If there's any potential validity to what she's saying, I'd alert the staff. Honestly, I'd alert them anyways, for a cpl of reasons. One, they need to be aware if her behaviour/paranoia is escalating, as a medical issue. Two, it's protection for the staff. B/c she's claiming something is in her purse, then she's accusing staff of doing something potentially criminal ('someone may get hurt') Three, it may well be a serious indicator that she needs more help than simply a hired person at home. Sounds to me that she's requiring 24/7 monitoring and assistance if she managed to break a hip during a quick trip to take out garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The paranoia is concerning. It can be a part of a larger mental health picture or a snapshot all its own. Either way, she is a bit of a danger to herself. Given that, I wouldn't right out say she's being manipulative. It sounds to me like she has some mental health issues, and while that doesn't give her a pass on bad behaviour, it can help explain things better, which in turn makes it easier for those around her to deal with it, and not take it personally. And, it's okay if you don't want to go see her. It is draining being on the receiving end of a mentally ill person's antics. Sometimes family is very hard to love. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't actually make them a bad person either, just a difficult one. Anyway, all that is to say, I understand where you are coming from, Remudamom. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Is she on any kind of medication that would make her paranoid or delusional? I only ask this because although I know she's a very difficult woman, I never got the impression that she had dementia. (I'm assuming that there wasn't anything terrible in her purse.) I think you should let your dh take the lead in this situation, because it's his mom, and also because nothing you do for your MIL will ever be enough for her, anyway. As for your SIL, when she complains that she does everything, agree with her and thank her profusely for her extreme sacrifice. Try to appear at least somewhat sincere. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Live2Ride Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Hugs! I'm sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I remember how difficult your SIL was being at the beginning of this. Now that the staff at the care facility might have her figured out, perhaps it might be worth your time to try to talk to someone managing her plan of care? There really should be a staff person/position there who is a touchpoint for you, someone you can call to double check on your MIL when you get a call like the one you got today. Do you get any feelings one way or the other, whether they might be willing to talk with you now that some time has passed and SIL has shown her true colors? I think it would be good for them to realize that MIL keeps you in the loop despite what SIL wishes/commands, and that they (the facility staff) would be better able to enact the proper care if they were open to information you could provide. Has your dh's opinion or involvement changed? Does he have any preference for how you should handle MIL's calls? :grouphug: How incredibly frustrating... as others have said, don't be too hard on yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Maybe I'm a heartless B, but I say ignore her. My grandmother is needy like that. My mom and aunt let her ruin their lives. They catered to her so much for years that now that they recognize what she's doing they're in so deep that they can't get out. Sounds like your MIL is the type that will thrive on your giving up your life for her if you let her. Totally ignore the call. Don't respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 I don't know her history, but if this is new behavior, I would wonder about dementia. Paranoia is a classic sign of early dementia. Manipulative and difficult people can also turn into people with dementia, which makes it even more difficult to sort out medically and otherwise. Hugs to you. I have a difficult MIL and also help care for dh's grandmother with dementia. It is unfun all the way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 I'm wondering if dementia isn't involved. She does seem to be very paranoid. She called me four times today and kept asking me to pick her up downtown. When I tried to tell her where she was she'd say "Would you listen to me?" A lot of her calls are just "come and get me." She says the nurses there don't want anything to do with her. She called her hairdresser and asked her to contact us. (She didn't, I just ran into her and she told me.) Anyhow, I was in town and stopped by. I took her for a ride outside in a wheelchair and she seemed to like that. A couple of times she'd ask me things that didn't make sense. I found out that sil was expected and left without having to see her. I will not be suggesting anything to sil though about dementia or paranoia. Sil is the expert on all things mil. You absolutely can. not. talk. to her. You can only listen, agree, and obey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Don't talk to SIL, talk to the staff. Let them know the difference, b/c they didn't know her before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 It sounds like mil needs a mental health evaluation. She started with really intense anxiety. I don't really think "manipulate" is an appropriate word in this situation. She had to "manipulate" to get what she needed to relieve the fear. People with intense anxiety are in a situation which can feel like facing death. (Think about a common form of anxiety---claustrophobia. There are a LOT of people who could not lie still for a needed MRI without medication because they feel like they can't breathe even though there is no rational reason for it. ) The phone call about the item in the purse sounds like paranoia from dementia. That kind of report is very common from people in nursing homes. If there was dementia coming on before the fall, it can be severely exacerbated by the transfer from a familiar environment . Even if mil was a manipulative type before aging (was she?), what you are describing does not sound like manipulation as the primary, driving factor. If she was manipulative before, that is likely to be in the mix, but as a secondary function, not as the primary cause. Mental illness is just as real as physical illness so please don't "ignore" the phone call. You wouldn't ignore one that said, "I've fallen and can't get up." You'd get her medical care. Same thing here. She has multiple signs of mental decline or mental illness. She needs an evaluation and appropriate treatment (probably medication). That would probably make your visits more pleasant as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) dbl post Edited November 30, 2012 by Laurie4b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 It sounds like mil needs a mental health evaluation. She started with really intense anxiety. I don't really think "manipulate" is an appropriate word in this situation. She had to "manipulate" to get what she needed to relieve the fear. People with intense anxiety are in a situation which can feel like facing death. (Think about a common form of anxiety---claustrophobia. There are a LOT of people who could not lie still for a needed MRI without medication because they feel like they can't breathe even though there is no rational reason for it. ) The phone call about the item in the purse sounds like paranoia from dementia. That kind of report is very common from people in nursing homes. If there was dementia coming on before the fall, it can be severely exacerbated by the transfer from a familiar environment . Even if mil was a manipulative type before aging (was she?), what you are describing does not sound like manipulation as the primary, driving factor. If she was manipulative before, that is likely to be in the mix, but as a secondary function, not as the primary cause. Mental illness is just as real as physical illness so please don't "ignore" the phone call. You wouldn't ignore one that said, "I've fallen and can't get up." You'd get her medical care. Same thing here. She has multiple signs of mental decline or mental illness. She needs an evaluation and appropriate treatment (probably medication). That would probably make your visits more pleasant as well. You're right. But all I can do is to tell the nurses because sil has complete control over everything. And dh says he is not going to fight her for it. Mil put sil in charge of her so she's gotten what she wanted. I really just wish she'd find someone else to call though. Why would she try to drag me in when we have always just gotten along so that things would be pleasant, not because of any genuine attachment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 B/c pleasant might be the best she has right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 You're right. But all I can do is to tell the nurses because sil has complete control over everything. And dh says he is not going to fight her for it. Mil put sil in charge of her so she's gotten what she wanted. I really just wish she'd find someone else to call though. Why would she try to drag me in when we have always just gotten along so that things would be pleasant, not because of any genuine attachment. I'm guessing it's possible she calls you because she finds you responsive? Do you feel comfortable screening her calls and then deciding which calls to actually respond to? Or at least allowing some lag time before responding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 You're right. But all I can do is to tell the nurses because sil has complete control over everything. And dh says he is not going to fight her for it. Mil put sil in charge of her so she's gotten what she wanted. I really just wish she'd find someone else to call though. Why would she try to drag me in when we have always just gotten along so that things would be pleasant, not because of any genuine attachment. Well, hopefully, if you tell the medical staff, they will talk with sil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I would punt to DH on this one. I'd probably plan certain days to visit regularly, but I'd let ALL calls go to voice mail for DH to evaluate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I would definitely check on her medications to be sure they are not causing the dementia symptoms, if this behavior is new for her. There are meds that can cause paranoia, and if she's reacting to a medication, she might be feeling scared all the time. I know she's not exactly a lovely person, but if she's truly feeling fearful, I hope there's a way to help her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 Dh ended up going in to see her today and staying till way past 10:30. She had slept all day so stayed awake and dedicated the evening to making sure he didn't leave. When she realized he was not going to stay she started in on getting this or that person to come and sleep in the chair in her room. It's just nuts. She has always been like this, just worse now. When the pain is worse the stress is worse of course. And somehow, someway sil is still determining what meds she gets for pain. Dh will not interfere with sill's power, mainly because his mother wanted her in charge and put her in charge. I say be careful what you wish for, you might get it. This whole situation is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Sure sounds like it :grouphug: I'm honestly baffled that the Dr would allow your SIL to override him. I've worked in LTC, and family members didn't get a vote in what meds the Drs determined were needed for the patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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