Algebra Fence Straddlers Master Thread

[dereksurfs]

I'm still not sure if we'll go into a 2-year Algebra 1 rotation starting in the summer (after SM 6A/B) or PreAlgebra, but to add to the Algebra discussion, dh told me he also has Holt Algebra (student and TE) in his classroom that I can use. I asked him about it and he rather likes it. The explanations are well done and there is plenty of practice problems to choose from/use. So, since he has to go pick up tests that he forgot this break, I asked him to grab that to go along with the Dolciani he brought home Friday. Not that I need more math books to browse. :lol: But, with Dolciani, I'd have to buy the student text as dh only has a TE. But, neither really solves my problem of what to do with 7th grade (I don't see ds11 being ready for Algebra 2 in 8th grade unless some serious brain fog has lifted by then). Just wanted to throw out another text option; dh definitely seems to favor the Holt over the Dolciani (and I plan on picking his brain a bit more when we aren't wrangling the children to help clean the house before Christmas).

 

I find it interesting that you are considering Holt along with the other options. I've never reviewed one of their texts. But from the reviews I've read they seem to have varied a lot throughout the years depending on authors which have changed quite a bit as well as their formats. Some have stated the new format/layout is very busy which is something I try to avoid in math textbooks. Here are a few threads in which Jann in Texas comments on the Holt series. She is a very well regarded math teacher and offers courses to homeschool families here in TWTM forum.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/18025-need-opinionsexperiences-from-btdt-re-holt-algebra-and-geometry/

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/230147-is-anyone-familiar-with-holt-algebra-by-schultz/

 

Like most curriculum some work better for some familes/kids than others. I would be interested to hear your take on these books. Its nice to have a variety of options.

[MyLittleWonders]

I find it interesting that you are considering Holt along with the other options. I've never reviewed one of their texts. But from the reviews I've read they seem to have varied a lot throughout the years depending on authors which have changed quite a bit as well as their formats. Some have stated the new format/layout is very busy which is something I try to avoid in math textbooks. Here are a few threads in which Jann in Texas comments on the Holt series. She is a very well regarded math teacher and offers courses to homeschool families here in TWTM forum.

 

http://forums.welltr...a-and-geometry/

 

http://forums.welltr...bra-by-schultz/

 

Like most curriculum some work better for some familes/kids than others. I would be interested to hear your take on these books. Its nice to have a variety of options.

 

I'm curious to get my hands on it. I know I've moved the books around his cabinets ;) but have never thumbed through them. I'm not sure the publication date of the ones he has, but I do take his opinion pretty highly as he can be very picky about how math is taught and with what resources. I'll be sure to report back as to the pertinent information on the one he has and how it compares to the Dolciani I have.

[3andme]

The recent editions of Holt textbooks with Edward Burger as a co-author are very solid, straight-forward math books. His Thinkwell videos are incorporated as online course supplements to these textbooks. They are pretty busy textbooks visually but have a lot of good features to them. I think these are a refreshing change from some of the previous generation of middle school math books which had a more constructivist "Everyday Math" program feel to them.

[dereksurfs]

The recent editions of Holt textbooks with Edward Burgeras a co-author are very solid, straight-forward math books. His Thinkwell videos are incorporated as online course supplements to these textbooks. They are pretty busy textbooks visually but have a lot of good features to them. I think these are a refreshing change from some of the previous generation of middle school math books which had a more constructivist "Everyday Math" program feel to them.

 

Your Holt findings seem consistent with Jann in Texas who said "I LOVE the current author of the Holt series (Dr Burger of Thinkwell)."

 

"The current texts (Burger) are also BUSY (visally AND conceptually)-- but there are also lots of great supports like the teacher's One Stop Planner and the FREE online video lessons by Dr Burger."

 

Based on this it sounds like if the teacher and student are ok with the busyness of the presentation it could be a good option.

 

BTW, what's up with these California Editions? Are they based on the Common Core Standard which California adopted earlier or something?

[MyLittleWonders]

Your Holt findings seem consistent with Jann in Texas who said "I LOVE the current author of the Holt series (Dr Burger of Thinkwell)."

 

"The current texts (Burger) are also BUSY (visally AND conceptually)-- but there are also lots of great supports like the teacher's One Stop Planner and the FREE online video lessons by Dr Burger."

 

Based on this it sounds like if the teacher and student are ok with the busyness of the presentation it could be a good option.

 

BTW, what's up with these California Editions? Are they based on the Common Core Standard which California adopted earlier or something?

 

I think '08 would be too early of a publication date to be CC. But, most textbooks that seem to be used in CA are published as "California Editions" which mean they align to the (now-almost-defunct) CA state standards. I know dh's texts, published around the same time, maybe a few years earlier, are all aligned to the state standards, probably much in the same way Singapore Math publishes their elementary texts in alignment with CA standards. The old belief used to be if you aligned with CA standards then your books would be fine in pretty much any other state as ours were the most rigorous.

[Crimson Wife]

 

I think '08 would be too early of a publication date to be CC. But, most textbooks that seem to be used in CA are published as "California Editions" which mean they align to the (now-almost-defunct) CA state standards. I know dh's texts, published around the same time, maybe a few years earlier, are all aligned to the state standards, probably much in the same way Singapore Math publishes their elementary texts in alignment with CA standards. The old belief used to be if you aligned with CA standards then your books would be fine in pretty much any other state as ours were the most rigorous.

 

California requires PS (including virtual charter programs) to use only Algebra 1 books off the state-approved list. I didn't see any of the Holt books at our charter's lending library the last time I was there so I don't know anything about those particular editions.

[Halcyon]

Just bumping this thread up to see where people are with planning Algebra. I am looking at Lial's, Dolciani and JanninTx's class...and Derek Owens. Right now, I am leaning towards Derek Owens, but DS is enjoying his one live class and I think he would love Jann's class (I believe it is live too). I am also considering Tablet Class and Kinetic Books, but really haven't researched them.

 

The reason I am now looking at some outsourced options is because I want to be able to spend more time with my younger, one-on-one, and I know math will become more time consuming (for me) next year if I do it on my own. Not that I am totally decided either way! (of course not!)

 

So that's where we are!

[Mrs Twain]

Just bumping this thread up to see where people are with planning Algebra. I am looking at Lial's, Dolciani and JanninTx's class...and Derek Owens. Right now, I am leaning towards Derek Owens, but DS is enjoying his one live class and I think he would love Jann's class (I believe it is live too). I am also considering Tablet Class and Kinetic Books, but really haven't researched them.

 

The reason I am now looking at some outsourced options is because I want to be able to spend more time with my younger, one-on-one, and I know math will become more time consuming (for me) next year if I do it on my own. Not that I am totally decided either way! (of course not!)

 

So that's where we are!

 

 

I have been trying to research options for online Algebra classes. The reason is that my kids may need to have "official" courses for Algebra 1 and Geometry in order to get high school credits (without having to retake exams), or to apply to a local magnet high school. Particulary for the magnet high school application, I think it would look better for us to have a grade from some kind of well regarded online class rather than from Mom teaching son/daughter at home, if you know what I mean. Not that an online class would necessarily be better quality or even be as good as some of these old texts (i.e. Dolciani), but school officials would likely put more trust in an objective online class.

 

Any ideas on online classes that may fit? I have heard people mention EPGY classes or CTY classes, but I have little knowledge and no experience with these. Any help or thoughts are appreciated!

[Crimson Wife]

EPGY has an open-enrollment option for its Beginning Algebra course, but CTY requires the student to score high enough on a talent search test (SAT/ACT for 7th grade & up).

[wapiti]

I have been trying to research options for online Algebra classes. The reason is that my kids may need to have "official" courses for Algebra 1 and Geometry in order to get high school credits (without having to retake exams), or to apply to a local magnet high school. Particulary for the magnet high school application, I think it would look better for us to have a grade from some kind of well regarded online class rather than from Mom teaching son/daughter at home, if you know what I mean. Not that an online class would necessarily be better quality or even be as good as some of these old texts (i.e. Dolciani), but school officials would likely put more trust in an objective online class.

 

Any ideas on online classes that may fit? I have heard people mention EPGY classes or CTY classes, but I have little knowledge and no experience with these. Any help or thoughts are appreciated!

 

Try this link: http://forums.welltr...-video-courses/

 

Also check this thread:

 

Comprehensive list of online classes

 

Online Math Classes

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/339642-online-dolciani-algebra-classes/

[Mrs Twain]

Thank you, Crimson Wife and Wapiti!

I will check these out.

[Halcyon]

EPGY has an open-enrollment option for its Beginning Algebra course, but CTY requires the student to score high enough on a talent search test (SAT/ACT for 7th grade & up).

 

How good is the epgy algebra? I seem to recall the interface being really poor, but that was years ago and it wasnt algebra, but one of the earlier maths. Is there anywhere online where you can see a sample?

[Tess in the Burbs]

We are still in our search for next year and algebra. Ds is finishing up Horizons 6 and has easily placed into Saxon Algebra but I hate to skip prealgebra. He's not a math loving kid. So trying to avoid using Saxon if I can. I was looking at Foerster more closely. I wish these things were easier to order.

 

My list for now:

Jacobs

Foerster

some kind of online class

 

I don't really want any computer based/tablet based class. I would love a local class but they start at algebra and if I did local class I would start with prealgebra.

 

we shall see how it goes....

[dereksurfs]

For those interested I put together a spreadsheet comparing the Scope & Sequence of three well known textbooks I picked up in preparation for Algebra. This includes AoPS Intro to Algbera, Foerster Algebra 1 (1999), Dolciani Algebra 1 (1992), and TabletClass:

 

https://docs.google....cFE&usp=sharing

 

We are using TabletClass now for Pre-A and will most likely continue with it into Algebra 1 in combination with one or more of these texts.

[shanezomom]

Great list, Derek. Thanks

[Halcyon]

For those interested I put together a spreadsheet comparing the Scope & Sequence of three well known textbooks I picked up in preparation for Algebra. This includes AoPS Intro to Algbera, Foerster Algebra 1 (1999), Dolciani Algebra 1 (1992), and TabletClass:

 

https://docs.google....cFE&usp=sharing

 

We are using TabletClass now for Pre-A and will most likely continue with it into Algebra 1 in combination with one or more of these texts.

 

 

 

Oooh yippie! I only just began with my comparison, so this will reallllllly help.

[Halcyon]

Does tablet class cover multivariable expressions or irrational numbers? I need to look more closely at their syllabus closely. I also recall seeing a video on functions, but don't see it in Algebra 1.Perhaps that's an Algebra 2 topic for him.

[dereksurfs]

Does tablet class cover multivariable expressions or irrational numbers? I need to look more closely at their syllabus closely. I also recall seeing a video on functions, but don't see it in Algebra 1.Perhaps that's an Algebra 2 topic for him.

 

 

Yes, Chapter 12 covers Functions.

 

Generally speaking a table of contents can only give so much information and many times specific details such as these can only be found when looked up.

 

Although 'multi-variable expression' is not stated in the TOC it is typically implied when Expressions and Multi-Variable Equations are covered. For example in TabletClass Pre-Algebra Chapter 3 (Real Numbers/Simplifying Variable Expressions) multi-variable expressions are addressed such as: 4x²y - 3xy² + 2x²y² (this really made my son think! :tongue_smilie:) and also using distribution as in: 4xy(3 - x). Then later with Polynomials: (2a + b )(a - 2b)(4a² + 3b²). These are examples from the Pre-A class since I don't have the TC Algebra class yet. In addition multi-variable equations are used throughout which consist of two 'expressions' connected by an equals sign such as a quadradic equation: y = ax² + bx + c.

 

Irrational numbers are typically covered in the section dealing with Radical Expressions. Foerster places them here for example.

[Halcyon]

Thank you Derek! This is very, very helpful. I am going to have my son do a sample class from his link this week and see how he likes it.

[Halcyon]

So DS did the two step equations part on the demo page (I think it's algebra) and liked it and didn't find it difficult. We only did Worksheet B, however, as he had already done an hour of math. I am going to continue to have him use it this week as time allows and see how it goes. He seemed to like the interface well enough.

[KellyMama]

I didn't think I was a fence-straddler until I started researching my options! DD1 is finishing up Saxon 8/7 (3rd Ed with pre algebra) and I was heading for Algebra 1. I'm not sure why Saxon is considered 'unpopular' as a pp mentioned ;) but I really do want to understand it! I'd much rather shift her to something 'better' now instead of wishing I had 4 years from now.

 

She seems to benefit from the review and spiral nature of Saxon. What type of student *is* a good fit for Saxon vs AoPS vs some of these older texts vs the online options? It makes my brain hurt lol! I just want her to be well-prepared for college admissions testing etc - she doesn't love math and plans to pursue an arts degree - drama or something right now ;)

 

My younger 2 are different fish and enjoy math, or at least it seems to come more easily to them. I was originally planning Saxon for all of them unless they protested or didn't seem to thrive. Bad idea??

[dereksurfs]

So DS did the two step equations part on the demo page (I think it's algebra) and liked it and didn't find it difficult. We only did Worksheet B, however, as he had already done an hour of math. I am going to continue to have him use it this week as time allows and see how it goes. He seemed to like the interface well enough.

 

That sounds good Halcyon. Hopefully the lessons combined with their problem sets work well for him.

[dereksurfs]

I didn't think I was a fence-straddler until I started researching my options! DD1 is finishing up Saxon 8/7 (3rd Ed with pre algebra) and I was heading for Algebra 1. I'm not sure why Saxon is considered 'unpopular' as a pp mentioned ;) but I really do want to understand it! I'd much rather shift her to something 'better' now instead of wishing I had 4 years from now.

 

She seems to benefit from the review and spiral nature of Saxon. What type of student *is* a good fit for Saxon vs AoPS vs some of these older texts vs the online options? It makes my brain hurt lol! I just want her to be well-prepared for college admissions testing etc - she doesn't love math and plans to pursue an arts degree - drama or something right now ;)

 

My younger 2 are different fish and enjoy math, or at least it seems to come more easily to them. I was originally planning Saxon for all of them unless they protested or didn't seem to thrive. Bad idea??

 

KellyMama, I think its perfectly fine to go against the grain 'if it is working' for your dd1. Saxon, more than probably any other math program, seems to one folks either really like or really can't stand. We haven't used it, but have friends who do. Its like the good old standard.

 

There are a lot of threads describing why some families switched from Saxon to 'xyz' program and the many reasons why. While its fine to use Saxon when its working, I think its also important to at least be be open to other options when its not. There are so many great programs which seem to work better for certain types of students such as AoPS for those who love math. For some the repetitive nature of Saxon is just too much. Others prefer something more interactive including online classes. But it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Why not involve your dd in the selection process and at least let her 'try/sample' a few other programs to see how she might like them in comparision to Saxon? Maybe she'll decide that she likes Saxon best. But then your younger ones might be different. Offering a variety of programs to them can really help in tailoring a math education which works best for the individual child.

[KellyMama]

Why not involve your dd in the selection process and at least let her 'try/sample' a few other programs to see how she might like them in comparision to Saxon? Maybe she'll decide that she likes Saxon best. But then your younger ones might be different. Offering a variety of programs to them can really help in tailoring a math education which works best for the individual child.

 

 

I agree and I'd love to involve her, but my main concern with this kiddo is that she just doesn't like math at all. She is a "get it done" type and many of her friends are using TT. I'm concerned with TT for many reasons. Her main reason for thinking she would like it, is that is seems "easy" to her. All the pretty pictures and little cartoon characters. *sigh* I'm thinking I'd find myself back-tracking to fill in the blanks when she wasn't able to handle a standardized test in the future.

 

I'm definitely open to other options. This thread has been a very intersting read! I wish I could find an Algebra "flow chart" to show me - for x student, use this program, for y student use this program etc. LOL Would make my decisions so much easier! I managed to make it through AP calculus. I'm able to teach her right now and probably through Algebra 1, but she's probably better off with a strong text and/or a CD-rom to help us both out. I really don't think I can handle the upper-level math without seriously revisiting it myself (and I don't really have the time/brain-power to do that right now with the stages of my other 2).

 

I'm definitely all ears about which programs I should check into. This is only our 2nd year HS and the private school we left uses Saxon all the way through. We just went with it because it seemed to be "solid" but I'm not especially attached to it. LOL ;)

[dereksurfs]

Yes, I have similar concerns with TT. OhElizabeth seems to like it with her daughter and supplements to address potential S&S gaps I think. Maybe she will chime in.

 

For your dd other options I would also consider would be:

Jacobs

Lial

Derek Owens, he has a normal and honors track

Jann in Texas(uses Lial), many like her classes

TabletClass, If she can do ok with Saxon then she may not find it too difficult.

 

We prefer having a program with some instruction at this level as my wife doesn't want to lecture Algebra and beyond.

[bethben]

I didn't think I was a fence-straddler until I started researching my options! DD1 is finishing up Saxon 8/7 (3rd Ed with pre algebra) and I was heading for Algebra 1. I'm not sure why Saxon is considered 'unpopular' as a pp mentioned ;) but I really do want to understand it! I'd much rather shift her to something 'better' now instead of wishing I had 4 years from now.

 

She seems to benefit from the review and spiral nature of Saxon. What type of student *is* a good fit for Saxon vs AoPS vs some of these older texts vs the online options? It makes my brain hurt lol! I just want her to be well-prepared for college admissions testing etc - she doesn't love math and plans to pursue an arts degree - drama or something right now ;)

 

My younger 2 are different fish and enjoy math, or at least it seems to come more easily to them. I was originally planning Saxon for all of them unless they protested or didn't seem to thrive. Bad idea??

 

 

I think if it works, don't change it. I've tossed around changing from Saxon also, but it's just been working for my ds so well. If you want to check their ability to use another math program, have her try alcumus problems on the art of problem solving site. Ds does them every day and has been doing just fine with Saxon and alcumus.

 

Beth

[pooh bear]

My son has been using Saxon for a few years now, and is near to finishing Algebra 1/2. He does well with it and enjoys it. He does it all by himself, reads the lesson then does the problems. If he gets stuck he watches the Saxon Teacher DVD. I have no hand in his math work.

 

While he enjoys it and does very well on his lessons and tests, (always between 85% and 100%) he finds it boring.

 

My question is: should I switch him to another curriculum, supplement Saxon or just stick with Saxon?

[dereksurfs]

My son has been using Saxon for a few years now, and is near to finishing Algebra 1/2. He does well with it and enjoys it. He does it all by himself, reads the lesson then does the problems. If he gets stuck he watches the Saxon Teacher DVD. I have no hand in his math work.

 

While he enjoys it and does very well on his lessons and tests, (always between 85% and 100%) he finds it boring.

 

My question is: should I switch him to another curriculum, supplement Saxon or just stick with Saxon?

 

Wow, that's a tough question to which there could be a number of answers, no one being the only right one. Since he seems to enjoy Saxon I wouldn't abandon it all together. However I always trying to cultivate a love for math whenever possible, beyond just 'gettin' her done.' This is especially true if a child is moving in a STEM direction. There are a number of ways you could supplement Saxon by including things which he may find more interesting, fun or enjoyable. BethBen described one of them. She is using AoPS's Alcumus which is free. There is Khan Academy which we use and like, also free. Then of course there are a number of great books out there such as AoPS if the discovery approach is something he may be interested in for a future course. Another I would strongly encourage at this time for him is Patty Paper Geometry which is a fun introduction to Geometry before actually starting the course. You could allow him to do this lets say once a week or in addition to his daily Saxon work.

 

I would definately finish Saxon Algebra 1/2 before making any 'major' changes. After that you could explore with him the possibilty of taking an online class for example such as Derek Owens. This could infuse a little variety into his math education and answer that question: "Mom, dad, does math have to be this boring all the way through?"

[Crimson Wife]

My library had its semi-annual book sale today ($3 for everything that will fit in a grocery bag :D ). They had a copy of Experiencing Introductory Algebra by JoAnne Thomasson and Bob Pesut. The book is designed to be used in a one-semester remedial CC course. One thing I really like about it is that each problem set has lots of "real world" type word problems. I noticed the same thing about the other remedial college algebra book I have, Larson's Elementary Algebra.

 

In contrast, the middle/high school Algebra 1 textbooks I've seen tend to have very few word problems in their problem sets. IRL hardly ever is somebody going to hand you a nice neat equation to solve. It's almost always going to be in word problem form.

 

I haven't totally figured out what I'm going to be doing for math after DD finishes Singapore DM 7B. IMHO she needs a bit more work on pre-algebra before moving on to DM 8A. The first chapter of Experiencing Introductory Algebra is a review of pre-algebra as is the first chapter of Larson's Elementary Algebra. I'm not sure if doing those two chapters will be enough to solidify pre-algebra, but it's a place to start.

 

I am considering spreading out algebra 1 over 2 years using DM 8 as the "spine" and selecting word problems from the Thomasson and Larson books to go along with the topic.

[dereksurfs]

Crimson Wife, that sounds like a good Algebra resource and $3 is hard to beat. I like the inclusion of more word problems. Out of curiosity I looked it up on Open Library and they had the book available to check out online. Upon looking it over I find the style a little odd to me in the way it jumps right into the problems with no explanations of concepts whatsoever. This is like the opposite of AoPS or SM I would imagine. But maybe that's what your dd needs right now - more practice problems.

 

I also looked up the Larson's text which they had as well. Now that one I really like. It just seems to flow well with adequate though brief concept discussions and then problems to follow with clear explanations of the examples. I think that would be the better choice of the two IMO. Its just a more complete resource with a more straight forward presentation.

 

I know you were considering Dolciani as well. If you didn't buy a copy yet and are ever down in the Monterey area you are more than welcome to borrow ours. We're not using it and won't be for quite a while with our middle dd.

 

I think your overall plan sounds good. Although I don't know enough about DM7B in terms of its Pre-A content including S&S. Two years with Algebra sounds like a good overall plan, especially with a younger child. ds11 is starting Algebra 1 and we are taking it slow and steady through AoPS Intro to Algebra right now.

[dereksurfs]

I wanted to provide an update to all the Algebra Fence Straddlers out there after starting this thread last year. ds11 has now finished an intense year of Pre-A with Tablet Class ahead of schedule. He learned more during that course than any year prior. It really challenged and stretched his brain with some advanced algebraic concepts especially for the Pre-A level. We supplemented along the way when we hit the real challenging stuff like linear equations with Khan Academy and AoPS.

 

From the beginning I have been planning to have him spend more time in Algebra 1 to really absorb the material. I still would like him to spend the majority of middle school in Algebra. The initial plan was to use a gentler Algebra to begin with, then solidify Algebraic concepts with something more challenging like AoPS. Well, I went a bit overboard and picking up ~ 4 Algebra 1 texts.

 

After receiving AoPS and looking it over I thought I would just let ds11 give the first few chapters a try to get a feel for where he is at with it. Also after TabletClass much of the content of these initial chapters looked like review, though with more intense problems, especially the challenge problems at the end of the chapters. So far to my surprise he is really liking AoPS and has finished the first two chapters. He said to me the other day that while it is much more 'wordy' than what he is used to he likes how it explains the 'whys' and not just the 'hows.' So we'll see how it goes. For now the great experiment continues as we cover new ground. I still plan to spend more time with him in Algebra 1 and have plenty of resources to pull from to extend things out. But for now AoPS is really making him think more and we both like that. :thumbup:

[dereksurfs]

One more update and a bump to see how things are going with the Algebra folks.  I hope all is well with your Algebra plans or current Algebra program. 

 

ds12 is continues to like AoPS and is now in ch. 5 which is getting pretty challenging.  From other AoPS users I understand that ch. 6 is one of the toughest chapters of the book, at least for Algebra 1 (ch. 1-13).  So we'll she how things goes during our lighter Summer of math which includes working on it a few days a week as time and other activities permit.

[Matryoshka]

We're taking a break from AoPS this summer because dd asked to go through LoF Algebra as a review (we've had many "summers of Fred" in the past - she had asked to do the online Prealgebra class instead of Fred last summer, so I think she was ready for a change of pace).  She's mainly reading, only doing the Time to Plays that she feels she needs review on, and I'm requiring at least a couple of Cities done well before the next chapter.

 

She did chapters 1-5 in AoPS very well, and bogged down in 6, although I think that's partly because I was really busy taking a course then, and didn't have any time to go over it and make sure she was really reading all the explanations and sample solutions.  I told her we could go back to 6 & 7, so then she did chapter 8 (I thought she needed a confidence boost, and I'd heard 7 was also a toughie).  I also started having her do some word problems from Foersters, as I'm seeing she might need more repetition than AoPS has to really have the concepts sink in and to know and remember what tools she has in her toolbox and recognize when to use them.

 

So, the plan in the fall is to go back and re-do chapter 6, then 7 and 9 up to wherever we get (hopefully at least through 14 - I mean, she managed to get through 7 AoPS chapters this year while going to school full-time, and she didn't start till the end of October when her online Prealgebra class ended- she's 100% homeschooled again next year - so I think that's managable).  I'm going to sprinkle in word problems from Foersters more often.

 

Then we'll need a Geometry Fence Straddlers thread!  Do I start AoPS Geometry while she's still finishing up chapters 15-22 of Intro Algebra and alternate, or finish it first, or take a break?  Or do I take a break from AoPS and use the Jurgensen/Brown Geometry text?  Or use it as a supplement like I'm starting to use the Foersters?  Or get really ambitious and have her try the Geometry online class? :D

 

ETA: Meanwhile, as dd12 takes a summer break from AoPS Algebra, dd15 is going through that book in a similar fashion to how dd12 is using Fred, reading the chapters and doing end of section problems as needed, and a collection of the Challenge problems as an Algebra review (and perhaps extension) after a year of Geometry and before Algebra II (at the ps high school) in the fall.

[dereksurfs]

We're taking a break from AoPS this summer because dd asked to go through LoF Algebra as a review (we've had many "summers of Fred" in the past - she had asked to do the online Prealgebra class instead of Fred last summer, so I think she was ready for a change of pace).  She's mainly reading, only doing the Time to Plays that she feels she needs review on, and I'm requiring at least a couple of Cities done well before the next chapter.

 

She did chapters 1-5 in AoPS very well, and bogged down in 6, although I think that's partly because I was really busy taking a course then, and didn't have any time to go over it and make sure she was really reading all the explanations and sample solutions.  I told her we could go back to 6 & 7, so then she did chapter 8 (I thought she needed a confidence boost, and I'd heard 7 was also a toughie).  I also started having her do some word problems from Foersters, as I'm seeing she might need more repetition than AoPS has to really have the concepts sink in and to know and remember what tools she has in her toolbox and recognize when to use them.

 

So, the plan in the fall is to go back and re-do chapter 6, then 7 and 9 up to wherever we get (hopefully at least through 14 - I mean, she managed to get through 7 AoPS chapters this year while going to school full-time, and she didn't start till the end of October when her online Prealgebra class ended- she's 100% homeschooled again next year - so I think that's managable).  I'm going to sprinkle in word problems from Foersters more often.

 

Then we'll need a Geometry Fence Straddlers thread!  Do I start AoPS Geometry while she's still finishing up chapters 15-22 of Intro Algebra and alternate, or finish it first, or take a break?  Or do I take a break from AoPS and use the Jurgensen/Brown Geometry text?  Or use it as a supplement like I'm starting to use the Foersters?  Or get really ambitious and have her try the Geometry online class? :D

 

ETA: Meanwhile, as dd12 takes a summer break from AoPS Algebra, dd15 is going through that book in a similar fashion to how dd12 is using Fred, reading the chapters and doing end of section problems as needed, and a collection of the Challenge problems as an Algebra review (and perhaps extension) after a year of Geometry and before Algebra II (at the ps high school) in the fall.

 

Matryoshka,

 

Thanks for sharing your dd12's Algebra journey.  ds12 is right behind her in AoPS.  So it's good to hear how you approached those tougher chapters (6 & 7).  I also own Foerster and planned to use it if/when needed for a detour or supplement. 

 

With regards to Geometry I think you would be a great one to start that fence straddlers thread based on your post here.  :)

So far anyway I am planning on doing some 'pre-geometry' work with ds12 while he is moving through AoPS Intro to Algebra.  We already own Patty Paper Geometry and he Loves folding origami.  So that will be fun supplement and prep for him.  There was another lighter geometry text I was thinking of including before starting a heavier Proof based Geometry like AoPS.  AoPS Geometry is supposedly their hardest book.  Here is an interesting thread discussing some various approaches taken: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/464384-anyone-do-pre-geometry-before-geometry/

 

And one more:  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/454617-whats-next-math-algebra-2-or-geometry-which-geometry/

 

Ok, I found the text I was thinking of for introductions to Geomentry.  It's called Understanding Geometry by the Critical Thinking Co.  Here's a thread discussing usage.

[Crimson Wife]

As of right now, DD is doing a quick run-through of selected units from MEP years 7-9 before starting Singapore DM 8A (the publication date of which keeps getting delayed so it's just as well she's not ready to move on).

 

I'd like to do through the geometry units in DM 3 (or 9 if they revise that book before we get there). Not sure how far I'll be able to take her regarding the more advanced algebra topics.

 

I'm still debating about the need for a proof-based geometry course to supplement DM. A possibility I'm considering is running one concurrently with AOPS Intro to Algebra on alternate days. Until DD hits 9th grade, I think I can get away with calling what she's doing "honors integrated math" and noting that upon completion, she will have covered the standards for pre-algebra, algebra 1, and geometry.

[Matryoshka]

With regards to Geometry I think you would be a great one to start that fence traddlers thread based on your post here.  :)

So far anyway I am planning on doing some 'pre-geometry' work with ds12 while he is moving through AoPS Intro to Algebra.  We already own Patty Paper Geometry and he Loves folding origami.  So that will be fun supplement and prep for him.  There was another lighter geometry text I was thinking of including before starting a heavier Proof based Geometry like AoPS.  AoPS Geometry is supposedly their hardest book.  Here is an interesting thread discussing some various approaches taken: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/464384-anyone-do-pre-geometry-before-geometry/

 

And one more:  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/454617-whats-next-math-algebra-2-or-geometry-which-geometry/

 

Ok, I found the text I was thinking of for introductions to Geomentry.  It's called Understanding Geometry by the Critical Thinking Co.  Here's a thread discussing usage.

 

I've got both Patty Paper and Understanding Geometry.  The former I've had for 2 years now, and kept meaning to use once a week as a supplement with my older kids, but somehow we kept never getting to it!  One of my older dds just finished Geometry at the ps hs,  and the other is taking it over the summer now and trying to test out so she can do Alg II next fall, so I think the ship has sailed for them using it... For younger dd, we're joining a coop next year, and I've thought about offering Patty Paper as a coop course in the spring, as I find that saying I'll do it for other kids is a sure-fire way to get it done for mine!

 

Understanding Geometry I just got about a month ago, after the threads here.  I was thinking of just handing her a few pages a week to do over this next year as a bit more pre-Geometry, but looking at it I'm not sure if I'll end up using it that way.  I think I'd rather accelerate her through some of the easy stuff we've covered other places in the beginning, and then have her spend more time in the latter half of the book where proofs are introduced, and that will take a bit more involvement from me, so we'll have to see how that pans out...

 

[Pen]

Matryoshka,

 

Thanks for sharing your dd12's Algebra journey.  ds12 is right behind her in AoPS.  So it's good to hear how you approached those tougher chapters (6 & 7).  I also own Foerster and planned to use it if/when needed for a detour or supplement. 

 

With regards to Geometry I think you would be a great one to start that fence straddlers thread based on your post here.  :)

So far anyway I am planning on doing some 'pre-geometry' work with ds12 while he is moving through AoPS Intro to Algebra.  We already own Patty Paper Geometry and he Loves folding origami.  So that will be fun supplement and prep for him.  There was another lighter geometry text I was thinking of including before starting a heavier Proof based Geometry like AoPS.  AoPS Geometry is supposedly their hardest book.  Here is an interesting thread discussing some various approaches taken: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/464384-anyone-do-pre-geometry-before-geometry/

 

And one more:  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/454617-whats-next-math-algebra-2-or-geometry-which-geometry/

 

Ok, I found the text I was thinking of for introductions to Geomentry.  It's called Understanding Geometry by the Critical Thinking Co.  Here's a thread discussing usage.

 

I'm glad you pulled this back up at this time since I am starting to search out an algebra program.

 

Understanding Geometry, IMO, looks to be way easier than AOPS Algebra, or maybe even than AOPS or Jousting with Armadillos pre-algebra are or TC from what you say of that.  It does have some assumption of understanding some algebra as for the Pythagorean Theorem, but overall, I think it may be doable before we get to  whatever Algebra 1 I choose, or even before we finish pre-Alg.  Or maybe I'll have it be concurrent in fall, since I expect, like most CTC things he has done, my ds will find it fun.

 

Meanwhile, 

 

I am leaning toward Holt Algebra 1, Burger ed.  

 

Though considering getting AOPS to see how wonderful it is, or as you say, as a resource for myself--though I really do not want more than one Algebra 1.  If AOPS Intro Algebra were for a resource for myself, what components would I need to get?

 

What are good algebra programs for showing relation to real world use?  Toward the end of Understanding Geometry there is a problem that talks about use of a geometry formula for calculating how to design an airport, or elsewhere, I have seen problems that deal with geometry as it was once used to figure out distances to objects in space such as the moon--I think that sort of thing is likely to intrigue my ds.

[Pen]

My library had its semi-annual book sale today ($3 for everything that will fit in a grocery bag :D ). They had a copy of Experiencing Introductory Algebra by JoAnne Thomasson and Bob Pesut. The book is designed to be used in a one-semester remedial CC course. One thing I really like about it is that each problem set has lots of "real world" type word problems. I noticed the same thing about the other remedial college algebra book I have, Larson's Elementary Algebra.

 

In contrast, the middle/high school Algebra 1 textbooks I've seen tend to have very few word problems in their problem sets. IRL hardly ever is somebody going to hand you a nice neat equation to solve. It's almost always going to be in word problem form.

 

I haven't totally figured out what I'm going to be doing for math after DD finishes Singapore DM 7B. IMHO she needs a bit more work on pre-algebra before moving on to DM 8A. The first chapter of Experiencing Introductory Algebra is a review of pre-algebra as is the first chapter of Larson's Elementary Algebra. I'm not sure if doing those two chapters will be enough to solidify pre-algebra, but it's a place to start.

 

I am considering spreading out algebra 1 over 2 years using DM 8 as the "spine" and selecting word problems from the Thomasson and Larson books to go along with the topic.

 

 

Hmmm: this is an interesting idea too.

[dereksurfs]

I'm glad you pulled this back up at this time since I am starting to search out an algebra program.

 

Understanding Geometry, IMO, looks to be way easier than AOPS Algebra, or maybe even than AOPS or Jousting with Armadillos pre-algebra are or TC from what you say of that.  It does have some assumption of understanding some algebra as for the Pythagorean Theorem, but overall, I think it may be doable before we get to  whatever Algebra 1 I choose, or even before we finish pre-Alg.  Or maybe I'll have it be concurrent in fall, since I expect, like most CTC things he has done, my ds will find it fun.

 

Meanwhile, 

 

I am leaning toward Holt Algebra 1, Burger ed.  

 

Though considering getting AOPS to see how wonderful it is, or as you say, as a resource for myself--though I really do not want more than one Algebra 1.  If AOPS Intro Algebra were for a resource for myself, what components would I need to get?

 

What are good algebra programs for showing relation to real world use?  Toward the end of Understanding Geometry there is a problem that talks about use of a geometry formula for calculating how to design an airport, or elsewhere, I have seen problems that deal with geometry as it was once used to figure out distances to objects in space such as the moon--I think that sort of thing is likely to intrigue my ds.

 

That's interesting about Understanding Geometry.  I think I'm ok with it being easier as I would use it as a pre-geometry.  There are plenty of more difficult texts to pull from when it's time for formal proof based geometry.  I've heard others use MUS or TT geometry as pre-geometry as well because they are relatively easy but still introduce the fundamentals.

 

For AoPS Intro the Algebra you need the text and solutions manual if you want the answers including steps to solve.  Its only $6 more dollars to get the set and well worth it IMO.  You should be able to sell them pretty quickly on any homeschool board once done.  They are very hard to find used.  I'll probably end up keeping ours for future reference.

 

There is a book by Zacarro called Real World Algebra which you may like.  Although we picked it up we didn't end up using it with ds12 simply because he had his hands full with TabletClass Pre-A.  Then after completing TC he had moved beyond this level.  I would say it is targeted more toward the Pre-A stage.  So if you are past that it may be too much review.  This also depends on how much actual Algebra was done during Pre-A.

 

[Crimson Wife]

In the pre-a thread, someone mentioned "Elements of Mathematics", which I'd earlier dismissed since we didn't have the budget for it at the time. But my dad is giving me a bit of money and I could use some to try the first 3 courses in the series. I'll have to show her the previews to see what she thinks.

[Matryoshka]

We're taking a break from AoPS this summer because dd asked to go through LoF Algebra as a review (we've had many "summers of Fred" in the past - she had asked to do the online Prealgebra class instead of Fred last summer, so I think she was ready for a change of pace).  She's mainly reading, only doing the Time to Plays that she feels she needs review on, and I'm requiring at least a couple of Cities done well before the next chapter.

 

Thought I might toss in an update on dd's math journey... so we're a month into summer, and she completely pooped out on LoF.  She's annoyed by the story and doesn't think it explains things well (there are some topics in there that are still new to her, like plotting curved lines, so it wasn't just review).  Now, it's true she wasn't giving it her all; she was trying to read and pass the cities without doing all the Time to Plays... but the bottom line is that she decided she hated Fred and begged to go back to AoPS.  She is now happily working through Chapter 9.  Yesterday she actually hugged the book and said how much she loved it!  (but wait... isn't Farmer Fred later in this chapter??  eep!  We'll just have to see if she's still loving it then... hey, wait, is it some kind of weird coincidence that he's also named Fred??)

[JadeOrchidSong]

Now that ds11 is 2/3 through with Dolciani Prealgebra, I am debating between Discovering Mathematics 1+ 2 and Jacob's Elementary Algebra. I feel like buying both and have ds work with Jacob's and ds9 with DM when he finishes Singapore 6. What do you plan to do when you finish Jacob's Elementary Algebra if you use it? Part of me want to do Jacob's for it is just one book; part of me wants to do Discovering Mathematics for it is integrated, but I really don't like having still to juggle 1A textbook, TM, workbook, workbook TM, 1B and so on. But doing algebra for a whole year sounds so boring.