Vent and ISO advice--school is not going well

[Moxie]

This is kind of a vent and kind of a plea for help. School is not going well this year. I can say that, honestly, we have not had ONE SINGLE DAY in which all school work was completed by all three kids without attitude or a hissy fit. NOT ONE GOOD DAY!

 

I love having the kids home and there really isn't a school choice that works so they have to be homeschooled. I'm just really hating the school part of our day. It is a constant battle to get them to sit down, do the work, stop complaining, etc. and it is really wearing me down. As soon as I get one kids in line, another one starts in. We're just getting the basics done; we aren't excelling at anything and that isn't what I want. We've taken breaks, I've set up charts, I'm out of ideas to make school go better. The only thing that gets things done is when Mom gets really mad and starts yelling. That isn't the childhood I want my kids to remember but I'm out of ideas.

[Desert Rat]

I'm sorry you're having a rough time. Is it one specific subject (for each) that's giving you trouble or is it just general mayhem and foolishness?

 

Charts and breaks never work for me. The kids love the charts (and breaks!) but, I find I'm not consistent with charts and I'm typically an "on top of it" kind of gal. And breaks lose our momentum.

 

When my boys have a problem subject that they just dread, I use rewards. I buy a mid-size lego set. Any kind of toy with small individual pieces can work. Even jigsaw puzzles. They earn pieces as rewards. They do not get to see the lego set and the last item they "win" is the instruction booklet. My youngest is having a miserable time with spelling. As an incentive to learn his words, he gets one lego piece for every word he gets right at the end of the week. There is no punishment for missing them. This is super important for my kiddos.

 

My oldest has a hard time focusing with his math tutor. So, as a "reward" for paying attention and concentrating, he earns up to 3 pieces for a good tutoring session. If his work is neat and legible (also hard for him), he can earn 2 more.

 

Ds12 has worked on earning the same lego set for a year now. He doesn't care.

My youngest just started his kit and it makes him excited for spelling instead of dreading it.

 

I also split them up and school them separately. But, just seeing the age of your kiddos and that you have a toddler and an infant, I say to give yourself a bit of grace. Use naptimes when possible to work with the older 2 on hard subjects. Read lots aloud. Penmanship for the 6yo can be helping you write grocery lists.

 

Does any of that help? Geez, you're really in the trenches! Hang in there!

[Coffeemama]

Hugs. I've had a few stretches with the same situation this year.

In my house it seems that my youngest can set off a bad day for everyone. Im requiring more of her this year and it's just complaint after complaint with a few tantrums thrown in. If she has a good day, everyone seems to get more done. When she has a bad day/week, it throws everyone off and my other two children complain and act out more.

 

One thing that has helped is separating the children to work in different rooms for their independent subjects. Then at least I'm usually dealing with one difficult child intead of three.

 

Hope that helps!

[Myra]

I found when my kids were that age and we were struggling with staying focused was to pick a curriculum for one (or two) subjects that we could do together as a group. The Story of the World books and worksheets are great for a group. I'd read the chapter outloud on the couch while the kids either snuggled in or started quietly coloring the accompanying worksheets. After each chapter, we headed for the library to check out lots of books that corresponded with the chapter but were on different reading levels - from picture books, to chapter books, Osborne books, Magic Tree House research books, etc. We'd take a couple days exploring those - sharing what we were finding out, etc. During that time, my oldest could write a paragraph over the topic, make a poster,etc - something age/educationally appropriate. This doing as a group really helped! Usually we did it with history, science, handwriting, foreign language.

 

For math, I'd use a timer.. During that time we worked one on one while the rest either did computer time or dvd lessons or book on tape or any activity that was structured and didn't need my assistance or supervision. Upon the pain of death, could you interupt when mom and child were working on "timer subjects"

 

You know, nothing ever works all the time. Kids change, seasons change, you change - sometimes you all just need a break then take a deep breath and try again. Home schooling is emotionally hard!

 

Hang in there!

 

Myra

[Myra]

double post

[OrdinaryTime]

I found when my kids were that age and we were struggling with staying focused was to pick a curriculum for one (or two) subjects that we could do together as a group. The Story of the World books and worksheets are great for a group. I'd read the chapter outloud on the couch while the kids either snuggled in or started quietly coloring the accompanying worksheets. After each chapter, we headed for the library to check out lots of books that corresponded with the chapter but were on different reading levels - from picture books, to chapter books, Osborne books, Magic Tree House research books, etc. We'd take a couple days exploring those - sharing what we were finding out, etc. During that time, my oldest could write a paragraph over the topic, make a poster,etc - something age/educationally appropriate. This doing as a group really helped! Usually we did it with history, science, handwriting, foreign language.

 

For math, I'd use a timer.. During that time we worked one on one while the rest either did computer time or dvd lessons or book on tape or any activity that was structured and didn't need my assistance or supervision. Upon the pain of death, could you interupt when mom and child were working on "timer subjects"

 

You know, nothing ever works all the time. Kids change, seasons change, you change - sometimes you all just need a break then take a deep breath and try again. Home schooling is emotionally hard!

 

Hang in there!

 

Myra

 

You are definitely in the weeds! I know, because I'm there, too. It can be extremely hard to stay calm and collected with unwilling students and so many littles. I think Myra has some good suggestions. This year I began started the school day with some read-alouds. I start with fairy tales, fables, and poetry for the littles and gradually work up to more complex material for the older kids, like SOTW and science books. The littles eventually drift away to play, but they are choosing to go instead of being sent away, which means they play nicely and let us focus. My older kids enjoy this time, and it seems to set us up for a better day by focusing on the joy of learning. We usually then do a short activity that spins off our reading to transition to table time.

 

Also, like Myra, during table time I set a timer and keep one-on-one lessons short and sweet. I demand perfect attention during this time, but feel it is fair to demand that for 15-20 minutes. You could start very small and then build up to more minutes slowly. If we had a good read-aloud/activity time, the kids are usually in a pretty good mood by this time - you know, actually exhibiting some natural curiousity and interest in learning - so it is much easier for them to give me their best.

 

Finally, the change most in your control is your own disposition. This year I have focused intently on trying to teach from "a place of rest," a concept from Andrew Kern for those who are familiar with the Circe Institute. I know my kids are not learning much if I am anxious and upset during our school time, even if I actually get them to finish their work. Now I try to not even think about education that way anymore - as "work" to "finish." We are trying to gain knowledge to form a person through education, not produce something on a production line. The process is just as important, in not more so, than any product in education. This helped me let go of the anxiety to "get it all done" - whatever that means! - and to focus on introducing my children to the world of learning in a joyful, peaceful way. This change in thinking has actually resulted in us "getting more done" (thought I hate using those words now) and to enjoy doing it much of the time. Changing my focus was a very necessary first step to helping change my kids' attitude about education.

[Ellie]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I hate it when that happens.

 

What are you using to teach everything?

[momtoamiracle]

I have that issue to with my 6yo. His seat work takes an hour, tops, the rest is read alouds. Yesterday he started all the moaning and groaning, and this was after he got to play for 6 hours, including playing in the rain. He wasn't being deprived of anything. He dared tell me that he never got any recess.

 

I didn't yell at him but I told him that if he didn't do school at home then he would have to go to school and I wouldn't worry what happened to him there. I put down what we were doing and said that was it, I gave up and that the next day dh and I would take him to school. He sat and cried for a while, then picked up the history encyclopedia I had out and started looking at it. I put on SOTW audiobook I purchased yesterday and we discussed it. I then gave him his math sheet and he did 12 problems of multiplication (and no it is not too hard for him,he really gets into it, addition and subtraction was driving him insane with the repetition). I then let him jump up and down and get some water. Then I had him read a story from his phonics reader and he did some word choice sentences.

 

When we were done I told him that it just taken one hour and he had the rest of the day, that kids that were in school were still in school and didn't get to go out and play in the rain. He told me that our school work went by so fast he didn't realize it was an hour, and that he thought about it and he didn't want to go to school. I further told him that if that was the case then every day he needed to cooperate so we could get our work done easily.

 

Who knows if the lecture will stick but I"ve had it with the moaning and complaining. He would rather play all day then do anything. Rewrds don't really work, a timer does help. I'm trying to get hims mindset that this is what has to be done and if he just does it then he can do other things.

 

 

 

I'm sure I'll have this discussion on a daily basis...

 

HUGS, it's really hard. I am jealous of those that say their kids don't want to stop doing their schoolwork!

[fairfarmhand]

Have you looked into workboxes?

[Random]

We are having a similar year.

 

Instead of a chart, I gave each child three Popsicle sticks at the beginning of each day. They colored their sticks, to keep them separate.

 

During the day, instead of discipline or correction, I asked the offending child to bring me a stick whenever he acted up. If the child lost all three sticks before dh got home, he had to go to bed immediately after dinner.

 

This worked for me because it isn't something I have to keep on top of, like a chart or long-term reward. And, it helped me to stop lecturing and spending so much time saying the same stuff over and over and over again. If my son talked back, I would just say, "Please bring me a popsicle stick." That was it. No lecture, no correction, no reasoning, no negotiating, no nothing. Just bring me the stick. They already knew what they were doing was wrong, and had already heard everything I have to say about it.

 

It worked also because the highlight of my kids' days is to spend time with Dad when he gets home. He is the fun one, and they love him more than life itself. He was willing to back me up on this, and tell them they had to be good to me during the day before he'd spend time with them in the evenings. I'd also like to say that our situation was quite desperate, and drastic measures were necessary.

 

Best wishes to you! I think a lot of us have been there. :grouphug:

[Random]

My first double post on the new boards!

 

:)

[momtoamiracle]

We are having a similar year.

 

Instead of a chart, I gave each child three Popsicle sticks at the beginning of each day. They colored their sticks, to keep them separate.

 

During the day, instead of discipline or correction, I asked the offending child to bring me a stick whenever he acted up. If the child lost all three sticks before dh got home, he had to go to bed immediately after dinner.

 

This worked for me because it isn't something I have to keep on top of, like a chart or long-term reward. And, it helped me to stop lecturing and spending so much time saying the same stuff over and over and over again. If my son talked back, I would just say, "Please bring me a popsicle stick." That was it. No lecture, no correction, no reasoning, no negotiating, no nothing. Just bring me the stick. They already knew what they were doing was wrong, and had already heard everything I have to say about it.

 

It worked also because the highlight of my kids' days is to spend time with Dad when he gets home. He is the fun one, and they love him more than life itself. He was willing to back me up on this, and tell them they had to be good to me during the day before he'd spend time with them in the evenings. I'd also like to say that our situation was quite desperate, and drastic measures were necessary.

 

Best wishes to you! I think a lot of us have been there. :grouphug:

 

 

 

hmm, I like this idea. DS likes to listen to audiobooks at night. I could take that away from him if he doesn't cooperate with school. Dh isn't home evenings so it's just us.

 

I think I will try this because I'm getting tired of saying the same thing day after day.

[PeterPan]

I'm sorry you're having a hard time! I wanted to give you a little bump here, now that we have the new forums split up. I don't have as many kids as you, but if you really do have a newborn and that many others, you need a BREAK!!! We took off every year from Thanksgiving till Christmas. Your kids are still young enough to do that, so do it. :)

 

Other thing is, make sure you're letting those older ones be as independent as they can be. Do they have typed up checklists with their work for the week? Make a basic one you can just tweak and print out for the week. It can be ultra-simple, nothing fancy. The less they ask you and the more you can defer to the implacability of The List, the better. Then you have a way to structure things. No list, no tv. List says everyone goes to their rooms for quiet time after lunch. etc.

[Halftime Hope]

We are having a similar year.

 

Instead of a chart, I gave each child three Popsicle sticks at the beginning of each day. They colored their sticks, to keep them separate.

 

During the day, instead of discipline or correction, I asked the offending child to bring me a stick whenever he acted up. If the child lost all three sticks before dh got home, he had to go to bed immediately after dinner.

 

This worked for me because it isn't something I have to keep on top of, like a chart or long-term reward. And, it helped me to stop lecturing and spending so much time saying the same stuff over and over and over again. If my son talked back, I would just say, "Please bring me a popsicle stick." That was it. No lecture, no correction, no reasoning, no negotiating, no nothing. Just bring me the stick. They already knew what they were doing was wrong, and had already heard everything I have to say about it.

 

It worked also because the highlight of my kids' days is to spend time with Dad when he gets home. He is the fun one, and they love him more than life itself. He was willing to back me up on this, and tell them they had to be good to me during the day before he'd spend time with them in the evenings. I'd also like to say that our situation was quite desperate, and drastic measures were necessary.

 

Best wishes to you! I think a lot of us have been there. :grouphug:

 

Man, I love this idea! You guys are geniuses. I would probably have modified it a bit for our family, so that that child missed out on his alone time with dad, but not the entire family's evening, or some such thing, but it is still an ingenius (sp?) idea! You all rock.

[speedmom4]

We are having a similar year.

 

Instead of a chart, I gave each child three Popsicle sticks at the beginning of each day. They colored their sticks, to keep them separate.

 

During the day, instead of discipline or correction, I asked the offending child to bring me a stick whenever he acted up. If the child lost all three sticks before dh got home, he had to go to bed immediately after dinner.

 

This worked for me because it isn't something I have to keep on top of, like a chart or long-term reward. And, it helped me to stop lecturing and spending so much time saying the same stuff over and over and over again. If my son talked back, I would just say, "Please bring me a popsicle stick." That was it. No lecture, no correction, no reasoning, no negotiating, no nothing. Just bring me the stick. They already knew what they were doing was wrong, and had already heard everything I have to say about it.

 

It worked also because the highlight of my kids' days is to spend time with Dad when he gets home. He is the fun one, and they love him more than life itself. He was willing to back me up on this, and tell them they had to be good to me during the day before he'd spend time with them in the evenings. I'd also like to say that our situation was quite desperate, and drastic measures were necessary.

 

Best wishes to you! I think a lot of us have been there. :grouphug:

 

 

What a great idea!!! I wish I had done something like this when my children were younger. I probably would have taken away computer time. I love the idea that it doesn't have to be any yelling or threatening. It is just very matter-of-fact and non-emotional.

 

If my boys complain about doing something I automatically assign extra work. For example, my boys don't really want to read for 20 minutes. If they complain or ask that the time be reduced to 15 minutes I tell them I will increase it to 25 minutes. It immediately stops them! I do that with English and math also. I rarely have to follow through with the threat because they straighten right up with the thought of extra work.

 

Hope you find some ideas that can help!

 

God Bless,

Elise in NC

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'm sorry you're having a hard time! I wanted to give you a little bump here, now that we have the new forums split up. I don't have as many kids as you, but if you really do have a newborn and that many others, you need a BREAK!!! We took off every year from Thanksgiving till Christmas. Your kids are still young enough to do that, so do it. :)

 

Other thing is, make sure you're letting those older ones be as independent as they can be. Do they have typed up checklists with their work for the week? Make a basic one you can just tweak and print out for the week. It can be ultra-simple, nothing fancy. The less they ask you and the more you can defer to the implacability of The List, the better. Then you have a way to structure things. No list, no tv. List says everyone goes to their rooms for quiet time after lunch. etc.

 

 

I wanted to add to the bolded advice above that you also need to not expect independent work when they need more guidance. That might be guidance in the subject or in self-discipline. The SWB lecture on developing an independent learner made me realize that I'd cut my kids loose before they were ready for it. There were still some subjects where they needed me to hover or even be at the elbow mom.

 

Lists did really help us, because it gave a finite end to the school day/week. I promised not to keep adding on if they would promise to do what was assigned. Before that, the reward for good work was often more work. Lists also helped me to see on Monday or Tuesday when we were falling behind instead of realizing it Friday afternoon. One of my kids even started getting up and doing school before breakfast (though I don't promise that as a result; it didn't rub off on his brothers).

 

The SWB lecture Homeschooling the Real Child is another good one. Especially since it starts with a discussion of where mom may be undermining the school efforts before moving on to "fixing" the kids.

[stephanie]

I just want to add that after 10 years of home schooling, we still have days like that. Yesterday was one of them. I don't say that to discourage you- just to make sure you're not too hard on yourself. Maybe lowering expectations for a days work would help? I used to get so stressed about completing my "list" everyday, and at the end of the day I was screaming and angry. I finally wrapped my brain around the fact that if I can sit and have a good conversation with my dc about anything were schooling about, that I've had a successful day. Of course we do our work, but if my dd spends 30 min on 10 factoring problems and she actually masters it, then we have had a productive school day! It's hard to break out of that frame of mind that a good day of school means completing every subject, but once you do, you will enjoy your days much more.

 

Hang in there, momma. We know exactly what you're feeling. Slow and steady wins the race!

[PeterPan]

I wanted to add to the bolded advice above that you also need to not expect independent work when they need more guidance. That might be guidance in the subject or in self-discipline. The SWB lecture on developing an independent learner made me realize that I'd cut my kids loose before they were ready for it. There were still some subjects where they needed me to hover or even be at the elbow mom.

 

Lists did really help us, because it gave a finite end to the school day/week. I promised not to keep adding on if they would promise to do what was assigned. Before that, the reward for good work was often more work. Lists also helped me to see on Monday or Tuesday when we were falling behind instead of realizing it Friday afternoon. One of my kids even started getting up and doing school before breakfast (though I don't promise that as a result; it didn't rub off on his brothers).

 

The SWB lecture Homeschooling the Real Child is another good one. Especially since it starts with a discussion of where mom may be undermining the school efforts before moving on to "fixing" the kids.

 

 

Oh yes, definitely! What sometimes happens is one kid wants to work and he's waiting for Mom to tell him what to do next. That's the scenario you want to avoid and can improve with some structure. The lists also allow you to realize what has to be done with Mom and what is merely inspected by Mom, so you can order your day and stagger the with Mom times and keep everyone moving. Sometimes our kids grow up and are able to do more and we don't even realize it. That's what you want to harness, not so much for self-instruction but basic responsibilities like following a list. And over the years I've tended to put EVERYTHING on the list that wasn't yet habitual (teeth brushing, feed animals, etc.).

[Clear Creek]

One thing I have found that works for my family is to start the day off with me reading aloud to them as we snuggle on the couch. It helps everyone begin the day with a good attitude, helps motivate the slowpoke to get ready in time to listen to the story(ies), and no matter how poorly the rest of the day goes with schoolwork, I can rest assured that the children will have ONE good, fuzzy, happy, warm memory of me from that day.

[briansmama]

I put a daily list of our rhythm for the entire day, and my boys know we don't move on to the next thing until we've completed what comes before it.

 

This works for us because they usually have something they are looking forward to each day: a science class, sports practice, or even afternoon play in the neighborhood.

 

FYI- I do not assign a time to each activity. Part of why we homeschool is to give our dc plenty of time to really sink into their material and to not be governed by bells. I also don't like jumping around from subject to subject each day. So, we really delve deep in our morning work. During our afternoon practice/skills work, my ds knows he needs to complete his cursive, spelling, and math before we move on to the next activity for the afternoon (which he always looks forward to).

 

[Anne in CA]

You are definitely in a spin cycle. The kids are feeding off negative energy. I would make schedule changes and I would start every day with some simple repetitive things to remind them who is in charge. In Asia they do "Morning Drill." It reminds the children to be in obedience mode. When people have followed five commands perfectly they tend to be more obedient. Silly ones like "Stand UP, Sit down, do a push up, ect... " can make a big difference for kids to get a habit changed. You need a shake up :sneaky2:. Take you home back with great stealth, lol.