Teaching spelling through dictation and copywork

[lorisuewho]

This year I am working through Logic of English Essentials with my kindergartner and first grader. When we finish this curriculum, I would like to move into applying what we learned in LOE with dictation and copywork exercises.

 

Besides SCM's Spelling Wisdom, is there any other curriculum that teaches this way?

[LydiaG]

We use SCM's Spelling Wisdom and like it. Just curious why you don't want to use it.

[SFM]

We, too, use SCM's Spelling Wisdom and enjoy it. I think we need some LOE for more remedial spelling help, debating that and Apples and Pears. I love he way of Charlotte Mason spelling in theory and my ds8 also really prefers Spelling Wisdom to every other program we have tried.

[lorisuewho]

We use SCM's Spelling Wisdom and like it. Just curious why you don't want to use it.

 

I am quite open to using Spelling Wisdom. I wasn't sure if there was anything else I should be considering. My main hesitation is that it is listed as being for 3rd grade and up. My boys will be in first and second.

[lorisuewho]

We, too, use SCM's Spelling Wisdom and enjoy it. I think we need some LOE for more remedial spelling help, debating that and Apples and Pears. I love he way of Charlotte Mason spelling in theory and my ds8 also really prefers Spelling Wisdom to every other program we have tried.

 

I am hoping that the skills in LOE can go hand-in-hand with the benefits of CM's spelling theory. I'm glad to hear that your son is enjoying it!

[FO4UR]

Read up on Charlotte Mason.

 

I use Apples & Pears, and it relies heavily on copywork/visualization/dictation. The main thing that I do not like about it is that the content is sheer twaddle. I do like that it is systematic, covering the high frequency words very well and it teaches by morpheme (which complements life after phonograms very well...we still talk about those phonograms, but the morphemes seem to be like a next step in word building).

 

If I were fantastically awesome and wonderful, I would make spelling lessons ala CM (pulling excerpts from our literature selections)...in much the same format as Apples & Pears.

[Chava_Raizel]

If your children are only in first and second grade - I would focus more on just solid copywork and save any real spelling until 3rd grade. I usually just have them do 3x per week copywork from books we are reading at that age - keep it simple. Most of my children have been natural spellers using this method.

 

Once you get to 3rd grade, you can continue the copywork 3x per week, but have them choose words that they think will be difficult to spell and have them practice them every day (one day write them with fancy handwriting, or put them in alphabetical order, write them in a sentence, etc.) You can test them at the end of the week, or just continue practicing and adding to the list, removing words when you feel they no longer need to study them.

[boscopup]

There was Simply Spelling, but their shopping cart doesn't seem to be showing any products anymore. Is Shoelace Books gone out of business? It was just PDF downloads, so nothing really to maintain or stock...

[lorisuewho]

If I were fantastically awesome and wonderful, I would make spelling lessons ala CM (pulling excerpts from our literature selections)...in much the same format as Apples & Pears.

 

 

I'd love to take excerpts from the literature we are reading and work it into what we learned with LOE, but I know that isn't going to happen. I'm going to need to go with a curriculum or something like WWE where the selections are already pulled for me.

 

If your children are only in first and second grade - I would focus more on just solid copywork and save any real spelling until 3rd grade. I usually just have them do 3x per week copywork from books we are reading at that age - keep it simple. Most of my children have been natural spellers using this method.

 

 

 

 

I actually really enjoy teaching spelling hand in hand with phonics and reading. I don't think I would not instruct my children in patterns and rules of spelling, but I do agree on the importance of copywork and definitely on keeping things as simple as possible!

 

There was Simply Spelling, but their shopping cart doesn't seem to be showing any products anymore. Is Shoelace Books gone out of business? It was just PDF downloads, so nothing really to maintain or stock...

 

 

I forgot about Simply Spelling. I need to go back to that site. I hope they haven't disappeared!

[2squared]

I have Simply Spelling, and I liked it for a while. I stopped because it was only poetry, and I wanted to teach standard grammar and punctuation with dictation as well. Poetry wasn't working very well for that. Simply Spelling is 3rd grade - high school level.

 

Beginning in 2nd grade, I have my kids do cold dictation using Kate Van Wagenen's Day By Day Dictation free from Google books. Each level has about 130 days of dictation. I have to actively teach spelling this way, but I like that I only teach what my kids don't know.

 

I am taking my 5th grader through LoE this year, and I have found that she already inherently knows most of the spelling "rules" from her previous years of dictation. LoE is helping fill in a few gaps, but now that I've gone through it, I doubt my 3rd grader will need to use the spelling piece of LoE.

[2squared]

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[2squared]

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[Kuovonne]

I am using All About Spelling with my first grader. It has dictation as part of every lesson. I also supplement with Spelling Plus Dictation Resource Book. I use the dictation sentences as copywork. This is for my kid who is not a natural speller.

[briansmama]

If your children are only in first and second grade - I would focus more on just solid copywork and save any real spelling until 3rd grade. I usually just have them do 3x per week copywork from books we are reading at that age - keep it simple. Most of my children have been natural spellers using this method.

Once you get to 3rd grade, you can continue the copywork 3x per week, but have them choose words that they think will be difficult to spell and have them practice them every day (one day write them with fancy handwriting, or put them in alphabetical order, write them in a sentence, etc.) You can test them at the end of the week, or just continue practicing and adding to the list, removing words when you feel they no longer need to study them.

 

Yes, this is what we do as well- spelling and grammar as a natural part of copy work, with spelling lists from the literature beginning in 3rd grade. I was an excellent speller in school and I love writing, but absolutely hated work that separated spelling and grammar from reading. I found it so tedious! I still do, which is why I keep both in context for my children .

 

I remember reading that Joan Dideon and other famous writers never studied the mechanics of spelling and grammar- they simply enjoyed reading, which helped them become good writers with a firm grasp of both grammar and spelling.

[Mrs_JWM]

I'm moving toward trying this approach, too. My daughter doesn't really like WWE (sorry, SWB! ;) ), but that's not the only reason I'm considering a change. I love the idea of teaching mechanics in context, but I'm not sure how to do it. I'm a natural speller myself, and I love to read, so spelling and writing came easily to me. My mother was an English teacher, and I was a high-school English teacher before we had a child. Most of those kids were terrible writers! I did what I could, but I always felt I was barely treading water. There was so much to teach and so little time. I've been reading about Charlotte Mason's approach, and I think it might be just the thing. Thanks for the ideas you've all given me!

[lorisuewho]

I have Simply Spelling, and I liked it for a while. I stopped because it was only poetry, and I wanted to teach standard grammar and punctuation with dictation as well. Poetry wasn't working very well for that. Simply Spelling is 3rd grade - high school level.

 

Beginning in 2nd grade, I have my kids do cold dictation using Kate Van Wagenen's Day By Day Dictation free from Google books. Each level has about 130 days of dictation. I have to actively teach spelling this way, but I like that I only teach what my kids don't know.

 

I am taking my 5th grader through LoE this year, and I have found that she already inherently knows most of the spelling "rules" from her previous years of dictation. LoE is helping fill in a few gaps, but now that I've gone through it, I doubt my 3rd grader will need to use the spelling piece of LoE.

 

I downloaded the Dictation Day by Day to take a closer look at it. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

I am using All About Spelling with my first grader. It has dictation as part of every lesson. I also supplement with Spelling Plus Dictation Resource Book. I use the dictation sentences as copywork. This is for my kid who is not a natural speller.

 

LOE has dictation also, but at least for LOE the sentences are based on the spelling lesson and not necessarily a great piece of literature. Is Spelling Plus Dictation based on literature?

 

Yes, this is what we do as well- spelling and grammar as a natural part of copy work, with spelling lists from the literature beginning in 3rd grade. I was an excellent speller in school and I love writing, but absolutely hated work that separated spelling and grammar from reading. I found it so tedious! I still do, which is why I keep both in context for my children .

 

I remember reading that Joan Dideon and other famous writers never studied the mechanics of spelling and grammar- they simply enjoyed reading, which helped them become good writers with a firm grasp of both grammar and spelling.

 

I really want to get our spelling to be part of what we do instead of a separate aspect.

 

I'm moving toward trying this approach, too. My daughter doesn't really like WWE (sorry, SWB! ;) ), but that's not the only reason I'm considering a change. I love the idea of teaching mechanics in context, but I'm not sure how to do it. I'm a natural speller myself, and I love to read, so spelling and writing came easily to me. My mother was an English teacher, and I was a high-school English teacher before we had a child. Most of those kids were terrible writers! I did what I could, but I always felt I was barely treading water. There was so much to teach and so little time. I've been reading about Charlotte Mason's approach, and I think it might be just the thing. Thanks for the ideas you've all given me!

 

Funny that you should mention WWE, because a little while ago I was wondering to myself if I could use the dictation passages from WWE 2 as our "spelling" dictation.

[2squared]

Funny that you should mention WWE, because a little while ago I was wondering to myself if I could use the dictation passages from WWE 2 as our "spelling" dictation.

 

I tried this for a while with my oldest, but I felt the words were too difficult. Too difficult in that they were frustrating, and we were working on too many different, difficult spelling patterns in the selection. I have found (obviously since I use it) Day by Day Dictation to be a good balance for us - challenging but not frustrating, long but not too long, appropriate punctuation, etc. I like the "graded" levels as it pushes my kids but doesn't overwhelm them. WWE (when used for spelling) was overwhelming.

[Kuovonne]

LOE has dictation also, but at least for LOE the sentences are based on the spelling lesson and not necessarily a great piece of literature. Is Spelling Plus Dictation based on literature?

I really want to get our spelling to be part of what we do instead of a separate aspect.

 

Spelling Plus Dictation is based on spelling lessons. I personally prefer my dictation to be based on spelling and grammar, not literature, but that's just my preference.

 

If you want literature and spelling combined, you might want to check out BraveWriter.

[lorisuewho]

I tried this for a while with my oldest, but I felt the words were too difficult. Too difficult in that they were frustrating, and we were working on too many different, difficult spelling patterns in the selection. I have found (obviously since I use it) Day by Day Dictation to be a good balance for us - challenging but not frustrating, long but not too long, appropriate punctuation, etc. I like the "graded" levels as it pushes my kids but doesn't overwhelm them. WWE (when used for spelling) was overwhelming.

 

 

Thank you for sharing your experience with using WWE with spelling. I knew I couldn't be the first person to think of that idea.

I have been looking over Dictation Day by Day this afternoon. What I really like about it is the use of graded sentences that are controlled for difficulty, the inclusion of actual literary passages once in a while, and the review lessons also being built into the schedule. This seems more doable for a first and second grader than Spelling Wisdom.

 

Spelling Plus Dictation is based on spelling lessons. I personally prefer my dictation to be based on spelling and grammar, not literature, but that's just my preference.

 

If you want literature and spelling combined, you might want to check out BraveWriter.

 

Do you know which aspect of BraveWriter would have the spelling in it? I'm not really familiar with the program.

[BugsMama]

I'm also using it with a first grader, and honestly, we're going to repeat it at least once more, if not twice. My kids are learning the phonics and becoming better readers, but I think their spelling will have an even better foundation to do it twice. Denise eide is also writing an advanced spelling list to use with LOEE, so it is super easy to repeat it with more complicated words. The first two advanced essentials lists are up on the LOE blog.

[2squared]

 

Thank you for sharing your experience with using WWE with spelling. I knew I couldn't be the first person to think of that idea.

I have been looking over Dictation Day by Day this afternoon. What I really like about it is the use of graded sentences that are controlled for difficulty, the inclusion of actual literary passages once in a while, and the review lessons also being built into the schedule. This seems more doable for a first and second grader than Spelling Wisdom.

 

 

I have found a few of the dictation passages to be out of date (as in not PC) or not worded very well. When we come across a passage that bothers me, I adjust it or skip it.

[RootAnn]

We tried the Spelling Plus Dictation book last year for spelling. Didn't work at all for my non-natural spellers. We're back to Spell to Write & Read...

[Amy Jo]

I like Rossman's "The Dictation Spelling Book" -- more literary passages, but probably too much for younger kids. There is a 'regular' book, then a different version has part 1 and part 2. You might want to check out Delightful Dictation -- it has famous sayings, and they start really short. I skipped the student text and just bought the teaching manual.

[Kuovonne]

Do you know which aspect of BraveWriter would have the spelling in it? I'm not really familiar with the program.

 

You could try The Wand. It combines phonics and spelling with literature for the ages you mentioned. It uses copywork and varying levels of dictation.

[lorisuewho]

I'm also using it with a first grader, and honestly, we're going to repeat it at least once more, if not twice. My kids are learning the phonics and becoming better readers, but I think their spelling will have an even better foundation to do it twice. Denise eide is also writing an advanced spelling list to use with LOEE, so it is super easy to repeat it with more complicated words. The first two advanced essentials lists are up on the LOE blog.

 

 

I agree that LOE is so meaty that it could be gone through a few times. It is definitely an option, and a very good option at that. However, I really am looking for more opportunities for dictation.

 

We tried the Spelling Plus Dictation book last year for spelling. Didn't work at all for my non-natural spellers. We're back to Spell to Write & Read...

 

 

So you did SWR then went to dictation and now came back to SWR? I'm sorry it didn't work out. I guess I could also always return to LOE if it doesn't work out the way I hope it will.

 

I like Rossman's "The Dictation Spelling Book" -- more literary passages, but probably too much for younger kids. There is a 'regular' book, then a different version has part 1 and part 2. You might want to check out Delightful Dictation -- it has famous sayings, and they start really short. I skipped the student text and just bought the teaching manual.

 

 

I will check out the Rossman book. Thanks for the link. I wish Delightful Dictation offered more samples. It is hard to get a feel for it.

 

You could try The Wand. It combines phonics and spelling with literature for the ages you mentioned. It uses copywork and varying levels of dictation.

 

 

Thank you. This is another one where I wish there was more of a sample. The description looks like exactly what I want, but the sample was way below where my kiddos are at and the price is a big risk. However, the idea is what I am searching for. . . .

[RootAnn]

So you did SWR then went to dictation and now came back to SWR? I'm sorry it didn't work out. I guess I could also always return to LOE if it doesn't work out the way I hope it will.

 

 

Yes. We'd done SWR since "the beginning," but I was looking for something the two olders could do together for spelling because teaching teacher-intensive subjects to three kids was overwhelming me (in theory) last year. DD#3 still did SWR last year. (I tried MegaWords for dd#1 this year in an effort to not do SWR with three kids. Ended up hating MW, so now I'm doing SWR with three kids. :glare: )

[lorisuewho]

Yes. We'd done SWR since "the beginning," but I was looking for something the two olders could do together for spelling because teaching teacher-intensive subjects to three kids was overwhelming me (in theory) last year. DD#3 still did SWR last year. (I tried MegaWords for dd#1 this year in an effort to not do SWR with three kids. Ended up hating MW, so now I'm doing SWR with three kids. :glare: )

 

I feel for you! I'm doing LOE with three. Thanks for sharing your experience!

[Hunter]

Lori, will the dictation be manuscript or cursive? I find that when requiring early cursive it changes EVERYTHING I do. I find that to master cursive the student needs to master writing each common syllable combination. I do a lot of dictation and copywork of CHARTS of similar words, instead of sentences. I have to tackle spelling/cursive dictation separately from how I teach grammar dictation and copywork.

 

I NEVER use literature for copywork or dictation anymore. Pretty is seldom efficient, unfortunately. It's all charts or models now. I'm kind of mathy about how I approach dictation and copywork.

 

I READ literature aloud. We might play around with a sentence for the ART of it. But literature is art, and first and foremost, I treat it as art.

 

Skills are head food. Arts are soul food. I get quickly burnt out trying to tweak soul food into brain food. I just don't have time to do something so inefficient, no matter how lovely the idea sounds in THEORY. It crashes and burns in practice, at least when I've tried to do it, with prepared curricula and when I've tried to reinvent the wheel.

[lorisuewho]

Lori, will the dictation be manuscript or cursive? I find that when requiring early cursive it changes EVERYTHING I do. I find that to master cursive the student needs to master writing each common syllable combination. I do a lot of dictation and copywork of CHARTS of similar words, instead of sentences. I have to tackle spelling/cursive dictation separately from how I teach grammar dictation and copywork.

 

I NEVER use literature for copywork or dictation anymore. Pretty is seldom efficient, unfortunately. It's all charts or models now. I'm kind of mathy about how I approach dictation and copywork.

 

I READ literature aloud. We might play around with a sentence for the ART of it. But literature is art, and first and foremost, I treat it as art.

 

Skills are head food. Arts are soul food. I get quickly burnt out trying to tweak soul food into brain food. I just don't have time to do something so inefficient, no matter how lovely the idea sounds in THEORY. It crashes and burns in practice, at least when I've tried to do it, with prepared curricula and when I've tried to reinvent the wheel.

 

 

Hunter,

 

I am going to have to think on what you just said about whether or not I'll be teaching cursive. I WAS planning on teaching cursive next year, but I don't know that I would use it for copywork. I can see how using cursive would require the writer to think in syllables.

 

Regarding using literature or graded passages for spelling. I am really torn on this. I think that the Dictation Day by Day may give me the best of both worlds since it is graded passages with just some literary passages thrown in on occassion. I appreciate that you have actual experience using both. Someone who says "been there done that" is priceless!

[Hunter]

I think that the Dictation Day by Day may give me the best of both worlds since it is graded passages with just some literary passages thrown in on occassion.

 

I haven't seen this resource. There are times throwing in SOME literature can work wonderfully, but when a curriculum ONLY uses literature as models, it gets messy really fast. I hope that curriculum works for you.

 

Cursive REALLY, REALLY, REALLY complicates things! It takes all your options and decimates them.

 

And I only know how to teach cursive cold turkey. I severely limit ALL writing no matter what the consequences and declare no more printing period. I teach cursive like I potty train.

 

I potty train by locking the child with me in the kitchen with a stack of dollar bills and a potty, wearing just his new underwear, flood him with fluids and just let it flow :lol: Potty training is well underway at 24 hours and mastered in 3 days. I'm broke and exhausted but done. The child has a stack of money but looks a little worse for wear, poor thing. He perks right up as soon as we hit the toy store though. :smile: Children are pretty resilient and recover, thankfully.

 

I don't like traumatizing those I'm responsible for, but I just don't know how to do some things any way other than cold turkey.

 

I'll be interested to hear about what you do, and how it goes.

[Mrs_JWM]

I didn't find that cursive was an issue. We used Cursive First, although not all the practice sheets, and AAS - Level 1. The dictation is AAS is individual sentences, so it was very do-able. I like how Cursive First teaches letter-family styles - "short uphill stroke," "attic loop," etc. At the beginning of second grade this year, though, during dictation, my daughter wrote, "I hate cursive." Hmmmm - now what?!! I said she was more than welcome to print, but that she had to use proper capitalization, as she preferred all capitals. Within a week, she was back to cursive because it was faster. She does print when she writes for fun on her own...and uses capitals appropriately.

 

I just order the five-pack of Arrows that Bravewriter had on sale, and I think I'll get The Wand. I like the continuity of using one piece of literature over a month.

 

I'm having a hard time letting go of AAS, though. I think it works really well, and I love how it reinforces the rules of spelling. How do the literature-based programs do that?

[lorisuewho]

I haven't seen this resource. There are times throwing in SOME literature can work wonderfully, but when a curriculum ONLY uses literature as models, it gets messy really fast. I hope that curriculum works for you.

 

 

 

It is free on google books. I can find the link if you want to see it.

 

I'll be interested to hear about what you do, and how it goes.

 

Ha! I'll be interested to see what I decide to do too. That is the next thing to overthink! BTW, I tried to send you a message today, but the system won't allow me. It says you aren't receiving messages.

 

 

I just order the five-pack of Arrows that Bravewriter had on sale, and I think I'll get The Wand. I like the continuity of using one piece of literature over a month.

 

I'm having a hard time letting go of AAS, though. I think it works really well, and I love how it reinforces the rules of spelling. How do the literature-based programs do that?

 

I don't know that literature-based programs can do it or even have the goal of doing it the way that LOE or AAS or SWR do it. I'm still thinking and rethinking about it, but I believe we can mark up sentences as a review of what we learned after the full program of LOE, but I don't think it would have been as easy to actually have learned the rules and patterns and phonemes with ONLY having done a literature-based program. Or maybe it would have happened more organically. I don't really know. I'm pretty sold on the LOE method though. Now I want to take it to a new level with dictation.

 

As for The Wand and The Arrow, I spent most of my day looking over samples. I really liked what I saw in The Wand, and if it would have been cheaper and I could have justified it as a supplement I would have purchased it. I think it could be a full program and is designed to be a full program, but at the end of the day, I just wasn't totally sure. I will probably continue to think about it.

The Arrow was certainly available at a good price yesterday, but I didn't go for it.

[RootAnn]

I teach cursive like I potty train.

 

I potty train by locking the child with me in the kitchen with a stack of dollar bills and a potty, wearing just his new underwear, flood him with fluids and just let it flow :lol: Potty training is well underway at 24 hours and mastered in 3 days. I'm broke and exhausted but done. The child has a stack of money but looks a little worse for wear, poor thing. He perks right up as soon as we hit the toy store though. :smile: Children are pretty resilient and recover, thankfully.

 

Can I outsource potty-training to you? I'll provide the dollar bills, the potty, and the child.

 

Cursive isn't nearly as exhausting in this house. (I'm a lot more laid back with potty training. And learning to read.) We haven't found cursive to be a roadblock here, but we do Cursive First & I haven't started my boys yet. :leaving:

[2squared]

I don't know that literature-based programs can do it or even have the goal of doing it the way that LOE or AAS or SWR do it. I'm still thinking and rethinking about it, but I believe we can mark up sentences as a review of what we learned after the full program of LOE, but I don't think it would have been as easy to actually have learned the rules and patterns and phonemes with ONLY having done a literature-based program. Or maybe it would have happened more organically. I don't really know. I'm pretty sold on the LOE method though. Now I want to take it to a new level with dictation.

 

How funny - I start with dictation and then fill in any gaps with LoE in 5th grade. Using the graded Day by Day Dictation has been very organic and very effective. I wouldn't have been as successful with an ungraded literature approach (similar to when I tried to use WWE) since the spelling patterns are presented more haphazardly. My 5th grader is going through LoE right now, and we just very briefly touch on the spelling piece. I was worried that she had spelling gaps, but she really doesn't.

[Hunter]

Cursive is trickier than most people realize. Just like some students learn to read without phonics, some students learn to write in cursive without a methodical approach. Cursive taps into some brain areas that really don't have anything to do with handwriting. It's about having to think ahead. There is multitasking required with cursive that is not required with manuscript.

 

I'm no expert in this! I only see the tip of the iceberg of what this is. But it's big and goes deep. The 4th edition of Writing Road to Reading mentions it. Mrs. Spalding chose to start with manuscript first and then transition to a very similar style of cursive because of it, at an exact stage of student spelling mastery. She knew more than she wrote about.

 

Lori, thank you for letting me know about my PM. I don't know what's up with that.

[Kuovonne]

I don't know that literature-based programs can do it or even have the goal of doing it the way that LOE or AAS or SWR do it. I'm still thinking and rethinking about it, but I believe we can mark up sentences as a review of what we learned after the full program of LOE, but I don't think it would have been as easy to actually have learned the rules and patterns and phonemes with ONLY having done a literature-based program. Or maybe it would have happened more organically. I don't really know. I'm pretty sold on the LOE method though. Now I want to take it to a new level with dictation.

 

Literature-based programs that teach spelling can't be as systematic as LOE, AAS, or SWR because literature isn't written around phonograms, spelling rules, and lists. The Wand comes pretty close for a literature-based program, but I believe that the author started with a phonics scope and sequence and then matched the literature excerpts to the phonics. Most literature only programs start with the literature and then pick out spelling words (or arrange the passages based on the difficulty of the words).

 

My older daughter is a natural speller. I started her with SWR but quickly transitioned her to dictation from BraveWriter's The Arrow. This method worked well because she rarely misspelled a word, and when she did, I could explain the phonograms/syllables/rules on the fly.

 

My younger daughter is not a natural speller. She needs lots of repetition. I use AAS with her, and I add in extra dictation by combining her review words into dictation sentences. The sentences aren't great literature, but they are tailored to her exactly.

[lorisuewho]

How funny - I start with dictation and then fill in any gaps with LoE in 5th grade. Using the graded Day by Day Dictation has been very organic and very effective. I wouldn't have been as successful with an ungraded literature approach (similar to when I tried to use WWE) since the spelling patterns are presented more haphazardly. My 5th grader is going through LoE right now, and we just very briefly touch on the spelling piece. I was worried that she had spelling gaps, but she really doesn't.

 

 

I am getting more and more excited to use the Day by Day Dictation. I'm glad to hear that it worked well for you with very few gaps. I think that means it should work for us in the opposite direction.

 

Cursive is trickier than most people realize. Just like some students learn to read without phonics, some students learn to write in cursive without a methodical approach. Cursive taps into some brain areas that really don't have anything to do with handwriting. It's about having to think ahead. There is multitasking required with cursive that is not required with manuscript.

 

I'm no expert in this! I only see the tip of the iceberg of what this is. But it's big and goes deep. The 4th edition of Writing Road to Reading mentions it. Mrs. Spalding chose to start with manuscript first and then transition to a very similar style of cursive because of it, at an exact stage of student spelling mastery. She knew more than she wrote about.

 

Lori, thank you for letting me know about my PM. I don't know what's up with that.

 

 

Well you don't have to go and scare me about cursive!! LOL

 

Literature-based programs that teach spelling can't be as systematic as LOE, AAS, or SWR because literature isn't written around phonograms, spelling rules, and lists. The Wand comes pretty close for a literature-based program, but I believe that the author started with a phonics scope and sequence and then matched the literature excerpts to the phonics. Most literature only programs start with the literature and then pick out spelling words (or arrange the passages based on the difficulty of the words).

 

My older daughter is a natural speller. I started her with SWR but quickly transitioned her to dictation from BraveWriter's The Arrow. This method worked well because she rarely misspelled a word, and when she did, I could explain the phonograms/syllables/rules on the fly.

 

My younger daughter is not a natural speller. She needs lots of repetition. I use AAS with her, and I add in extra dictation by combining her review words into dictation sentences. The sentences aren't great literature, but they are tailored to her exactly.

 

 

Your post makes a lot of sense to me. I can totally see how different approaches work for different children. Do you feel that your personally going through SWR first helped you to help her when she encountered spelling issues in dictation with your first daugther? Personally, I think I need to go through LOE so I have all the tools to coach when it comes to tricky spots in dictation and every day writing.

[momtoamiracle]

I downloaded Dictation Day by Day some time ago but have yet to use it. K12 phonics covers some spelling, but I'd like to add a little more to it when we're halfway through first grade. I plan on using Spelling Power for 2nd/3rd grade.

 

how exactly do you implement Dictation Day by Day? Have him copy the sentence and spell the words that are underneath the sentence? Each number represents a day? This is how it seems to me, just wanted to make sure I'm understanding it correctly.

[lorisuewho]

I downloaded Dictation Day by Day some time ago but have yet to use it. K12 phonics covers some spelling, but I'd like to add a little more to it when we're halfway through first grade. I plan on using Spelling Power for 2nd/3rd grade. how exactly do you implement Dictation Day by Day? Have him copy the sentence and spell the words that are underneath the sentence? Each number represents a day? This is how it seems to me, just wanted to make sure I'm understanding it correctly.

 

I didn't understand the first Day by Day I downloaded. Then I found a different, slightly later edition called The Modern Speller Dictation Day by Day. It had directions written at the beginning. I believe if you follow the directions each day you would do 3 things (and the author advises NOT to do it all in one sitting, but at two different times of the day). 1. Have the child read and then carefully copy the sentence. 2. Practice three review words from the list of 12 words that appear as the fifth lesson each week (so you will have covered all 12 words after four days). 3. Give the sentence as dictation. You follow that same schedule for four days a week. The fifth day is just for review of any troublesome words encountered during the week.

 

Here's a link to google books for the "modern" version that has directions at the beginning,

[momtoamiracle]

I didn't understand the first Day by Day I downloaded. Then I found a different, slightly later edition called The Modern Speller Dictation Day by Day. It had directions written at the beginning. I believe if you follow the directions each day you would do 3 things (and the author advises NOT to do it all in one sitting, but at two different times of the day). 1. Have the child read and then carefully copy the sentence. 2. Practice three review words from the list of 12 words that appear as the fifth lesson each week (so you will have covered all 12 words after four days). 3. Give the sentence as dictation. You follow that same schedule for four days a week. The fifth day is just for review of any troublesome words encountered during the week.

Here's a link to google books for the "modern" version that has directions at the beginning,

 

 

 

 

Thanks!

[serendipitous journey]

I think the Modern Speller is a CM-friendly version for the slightly younger ones -- we started this halfway through first. I did turn it into copywork/dictation by printing it in our handwriting font with StartWrite. You could also do this by hand. We did copying in the AM, then dictation for that lesson in the PM.

[zookeeperof3]

I like Wheeler's Speller for younger children. It's free here http://books.google.com/books?id=zpQAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PP5&dq=wheeler%27s+speller

I also like Wheeler's Grades Studies in Great Author's (speller). It's also free here http://books.google.com/books?id=sE4XAAAAIAAJ&pg=PP1&dq=wheeler%27s+speller

 

I'm thinking of switching my 6 yr old to Wheeler's this year.

Good luck! Kim

[2squared]

I am getting more and more excited to use the Day by Day Dictation. I'm glad to hear that it worked well for you with very few gaps. I think that means it should work for us in the opposite direction.

Well you don't have to go and scare me about cursive!! LOL

 

 

FWIW, I teach cursive with the Day-by-Day Dictation too. Right now my third grader is writing every two and three letter word in the passage after he has complete the dictation. Once he has this mastered, we will add four letter words. This approach seems to be working because most of the two and three letter words repeat frequently (so he gets a lot of practice forming the same letters and letter combinations) and those words are easy to spell (so the thinking ahead aspect is easier).

 

how exactly do you implement Dictation Day by Day?

 

 

I use each numbered passage for one day. My third grader does cold dictation, so he does not use it as copy work. I dictate a sentence, repeating it until he has it memorized (or parts of a sentence if it is long). Then he begins writing the sentence. When he gets to a challenging word, we work through the spelling. I don't have a spelling list or review or copy work or anything. If he struggles through a spelling pattern, we work through it knowing we will see it in future passages as well. I skip the days we are supposed to review.

 

My ds is keeping a list of homophones and homonyms as we go through the passages. That is fun for him, and has the added benefit of helping his spelling in an organic way.

 

He also enjoys marking the grammar - nouns, adjectives, etc - in the passages as well. I don't do a separate grammar for him other than marking his dictation sometimes.

[lorisuewho]

I think the Modern Speller is a CM-friendly version for the slightly younger ones -- we started this halfway through first. I did turn it into copywork/dictation by printing it in our handwriting font with StartWrite. You could also do this by hand. We did copying in the AM, then dictation for that lesson in the PM.

 

 

This seems like a good plan!

 

I like Wheeler's Speller for younger children. It's free here http://books.google....eeler's speller

I also like Wheeler's Grades Studies in Great Author's (speller). It's also free here http://books.google....eeler's speller

 

I'm thinking of switching my 6 yr old to Wheeler's this year.

Good luck! Kim

 

 

I really like Wheeler's. I like there are spelling lists mixed in with beautiful dictations.

 

FWIW, I teach cursive with the Day-by-Day Dictation too. Right now my third grader is writing every two and three letter word in the passage after he has complete the dictation. Once he has this mastered, we will add four letter words. This approach seems to be working because most of the two and three letter words repeat frequently (so he gets a lot of practice forming the same letters and letter combinations) and those words are easy to spell (so the thinking ahead aspect is easier).

 

 

 

I use each numbered passage for one day. My third grader does cold dictation, so he does not use it as copy work. I dictate a sentence, repeating it until he has it memorized (or parts of a sentence if it is long). Then he begins writing the sentence. When he gets to a challenging word, we work through the spelling. I don't have a spelling list or review or copy work or anything. If he struggles through a spelling pattern, we work through it knowing we will see it in future passages as well. I skip the days we are supposed to review.

 

My ds is keeping a list of homophones and homonyms as we go through the passages. That is fun for him, and has the added benefit of helping his spelling in an organic way.

 

He also enjoys marking the grammar - nouns, adjectives, etc - in the passages as well. I don't do a separate grammar for him other than marking his dictation sometimes.

 

 

I like how you are using cursive and grammar along with the spelling, and it is all coming together so beautifully.