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Posted

The Auditor General issued a report today that criticized how Nova Scotia's Home Education section of the Department of Education is handling our registrations and progress reports. We home educators of the province only found out about this on Monday. As many home educators as could gathered in Halifax today when and where the report was issued, and then met with the DOE man in charge of receiving our registrations and reports. Our e-mail lists, yahoo groups, and Facebook groups are buzzing with speculation as to how things might change in our province, with regards to how we register and report; and people are nervous.

 

Read more here:

 

http://www.oag-ns.ca/

 

then click on the link on the right that says "Report of the Auditor General - November 2012."

 

http://thechronicleh...s-ag-s-concerns

 

What are your thoughts? (Wishbone Dawn, have you been seeing all this?)

Posted

It looks like your Education Act gives the Minister rather a lot of power.

 

We are in BC, where all we have to do is register.

 

Similar here. We simply register, then send 2 one-page reports in during the year. They pretty much leave us alone. We don't get funding, though. Perfectly fine with me.

 

I would be concerned, though, if statements like this were issued here, and Nova Scotians have every cause for concern, as well. I find it laughable, at best, that they say that homeschool kids aren't getting the essential skills they need, when it is quite clear that neither are a great deal of public school children.

 

I find it concerning that the report pinpoints such things as assessments/standardized testing and having reports on children's works other than the "parent's opinion." We get no more than a teacher's opinion in the ps system, and let's face it -- most public school teachers are less than stellar intellects to begin with. That's why they end up in the education department. Yes, I know I just insulted every public school teacher on here, but I stand by my contention. It comes from years of experience in academia and the adult education worlds. I dare say there are rare few homeschooling moms on this board who could not succesfully pass the fluff and nonsense of most teacher education programs. But, why should they have to? What incredible success has that proven for the public school system. Hire a bunch of daycare workers and they could effect the same results as the public school presently manage. If you are a ps teacher reading this and you are an exception to my statement, then good for you. The public school system needs far more of you. I still contend that to imply homeschooling parents somehow need to meet the lowered expectations asked of public school teachers is an argument for idiocy.

 

Quite likely, this report is backed and lobbied by the teacher's union in your province. The TU's in Canada are staggeringly monolithic corporations more interested in high return investing than in the rights and logistics of actual teachers. They wield an unwarranted, yet far reaching power that I simply cannot understand, and certainly cannot condone.

 

I would hope that your provincial homeschooling organization puts together a campaign to bring their concerns to the forefront. I will hope for the best outcome for you. It could potentially affect other provinces. Fight the good fight, Colleen.

Posted

Similar here. We simply register, then send 2 one-page reports in during the year. They pretty much leave us alone. We don't get funding, though. Perfectly fine with me.

 

I would be concerned, though, if statements like this were issued here, and Nova Scotians have every cause for concern, as well. I find it laughable, at best, that they say that homeschool kids aren't getting the essential skills they need, when it is quite clear that neither are a great deal of public school children.

 

I find it concerning that the report pinpoints such things as assessments/standardized testing and having reports on children's works other than the "parent's opinion." We get no more than a teacher's opinion in the ps system, and let's face it -- most public school teachers are less than stellar intellects to begin with. That's why they end up in the education department. Yes, I know I just insulted every public school teacher on here, but I stand by my contention. It comes from years of experience in academia and the adult education worlds. I dare say there are rare few homeschooling moms on this board who could not succesfully pass the fluff and nonsense of most teacher education programs. But, why should they have to? What incredible success has that proven for the public school system. Hire a bunch of daycare workers and they could effect the same results as the public school presently manage. If you are a ps teacher reading this and you are an exception to my statement, then good for you. The public school system needs far more of you. I still contend that to imply homeschooling parents somehow need to meet the lowered expectations asked of public school teachers is an argument for idiocy.

 

Quite likely, this report is backed and lobbied by the teacher's union in your province. The TU's in Canada are staggeringly monolithic corporations more interested in high return investing than in the rights and logistics of actual teachers. They wield an unwarranted, yet far reaching power that I simply cannot understand, and certainly cannot condone.

 

I would hope that your provincial homeschooling organization puts together a campaign to bring their concerns to the forefront. I will hope for the best outcome for you. It could potentially affect other provinces. Fight the good fight, Colleen.

 

We don't get funding either, and for many years they have just left us alone. One registration, one progress report per year.

 

HSLDA Canada has this to say: http://www.hslda.ca/blog/nova_scotia_auditor_general?year&month&page=1

 

And provincial homeschool group leaders have moved into action and will keep the rest of us informed. My Facebook local homeschool group has been buzzing all morning, and a local radio news show talked about it extensively with the Auditor General this morning. His report is based on looking at roughly just one-eighth of the student files here in NS.

 

Yes, the "only parent's opinion" part bothered me. One one hand, I see his point about wanting to look out for the ones who may truly not being educated (but I highly doubt there are many). On the other hand, those of us who have chosen to take on the home education task take this job VERY seriously. We work hard at it, even among our differences in educational philosophy. I know this; we talk to each other all the time. In recent years I've had people contact me to ask how to get started. These Moms are VERY keen on making sure they do a good job by their children. They truly do know what is best for their kids.

 

On the radio show this morning, the AG said the DOE gets questions from parents about how to get started, what curric. to use, etc., and that the DOE needs to be prepared to answer their questions. ?!?!?!?!!?!?!?! Hello, what about the DOE simply continuing to refer (they have some support groups listed on their site) newbies to the support groups, to the PARENTS WHO KNOW HOW TO DO THE JOB. The ones who have been through the registration process (even if just last week, or twenty years ago), who have gotten to know some of the curric./programs/outside classes/support groups/etc. in our area.

 

This is nervewracking. I hear the AG telling the DOE to get better at its oversight job. But the potential to mess with what we home educators already know how to do and are prepared to help newbies with, is nervewracking.

Posted

We don't get funding either, and for many years they have just left us alone. One registration, one progress report per year.

 

HSLDA Canada has this to say: http://www.hslda.ca/...ar&month&page=1

 

And provincial homeschool group leaders have moved into action and will keep the rest of us informed. My Facebook local homeschool group has been buzzing all morning, and a local radio news show talked about it extensively with the Auditor General this morning. His report is based on looking at roughly just one-eighth of the student files here in NS.

 

Yes, the "only parent's opinion" part bothered me. One one hand, I see his point about wanting to look out for the ones who may truly not being educated (but I highly doubt there are many). On the other hand, those of us who have chosen to take on the home education task take this job VERY seriously. We work hard at it, even among our differences in educational philosophy. I know this; we talk to each other all the time. In recent years I've had people contact me to ask how to get started. These Moms are VERY keen on making sure they do a good job by their children. They truly do know what is best for their kids.

 

On the radio show this morning, the AG said the DOE gets questions from parents about how to get started, what curric. to use, etc., and that the DOE needs to be prepared to answer their questions. ?!?!?!?!!?!?!?! Hello, what about the DOE simply continuing to refer (they have some support groups listed on their site) newbies to the support groups, to the PARENTS WHO KNOW HOW TO DO THE JOB. The ones who have been through the registration process (even if just last week, or twenty years ago), who have gotten to know some of the curric./programs/outside classes/support groups/etc. in our area.

 

This is nervewracking. I hear the AG telling the DOE to get better at its oversight job. But the potential to mess with what we home educators already know how to do and are prepared to help newbies with, is nervewracking.

 

 

I can feel your frustration from all the way over here, Colleen, and I agree with your stand. What could those outside your province do to help?

Posted

I missed the meeting. I had my surgery last week and I'm on bedrest - the only thing that could have kept me away. :)

 

I did read the notes on the homelearners-ns list and plan to join the nshea but, despite the preferrences of the prov. homeschooling groups, I do plan on contacting my MLA as well. He's a great guy and very responsive. He's also NDP and I just don't think it can hurt to start working on educating some gov't MLA's on what homeschooling really looks like.

 

I 'm not convinced the HSLDA is any great help. They'll look like like agreesive outsiders that will likely just raise NDP hackles. Better if our own groups, if Nova Scotian groups, tackle this.

Posted
I can feel your frustration from all the way over here, Colleen, and I agree with your stand. What could those outside your province do to help?

 

You know, I really don't know. Cleo, were homeschoolers from other provinces able to do anything practical in Quebec during recent issues?

 

hugs to you and all other Nova Scotians... That AG wants the same thing as what we have in Quebec, and even more!

 

More?? Seriously? How so?

 

I missed the meeting. I had my surgery last week and I'm on bedrest - the only thing that could have kept me away. :) I did read the notes on the homelearners-ns list and plan to join the nshea but, despite the preferrences of the prov. homeschooling groups, I do plan on contacting my MLA as well. He's a great guy and very responsive. He's also NDP and I just don't think it can hurt to start working on educating some gov't MLA's on what homeschooling really looks like. I 'm not convinced the HSLDA is any great help. They'll look like like agreesive outsiders that will likely just raise NDP hackles. Better if our own groups, if Nova Scotian groups, tackle this.

 

Dawn, I just sent you an e-mail. I have no idea what updates you (and some others) are seeing, so I just keep forwarding what I'm receiving and finding out about. A central info. FB site has been set up - link is in the e-mail.

Posted

I'm sorry Colleen! This does sound like a difficult situation :grouphug:!

 

In our case (in BC) we can either register or enroll. By enrolling to a DL (Distributed Learning Program) we get funding but we have to ensure that we meet the local public school standards. We have our oldest enrolled in such a program but we choose the curriculum. For the past three years (this is our third year) I have not come across any issues with the two schools that we have enrolled with, in regards to curricula selection. There is also a lot of flexibility and the schools work with us. It also greatly depends on the teacher you have and their style of collecting the reports they need. This option eventually leads to a graduation diploma, which is something that we (as a family) have decided is important to us.

 

We have never gone the registered route, so I would be lying if I said I know what that entails here. I have to admit that it can get challenging and stressful having to balance the requirements, as set out by the government for the public school system, while trying to do what you feel is best for your child. So, with that in mind, I can definitely say that I understand how you feel! I got really close to just registering this year! It's been really hard!

Posted

I'm troubled by what I've read. Whenever a report is commissioned on any issue, it's safe to assume there will be recommendations for more government oversight and spending, often in place of actual fact-finding. While ensuring government-mandated learning outcomes are met might sound innocuous to the uninitiated, those outcomes are a labyrinth of political objectives which make it look like a lot of learning is happening, taking time away from acquiring basic skills. I think the DOE should reject the author's conclusion that they need to expand their mandate, instead focussing efforts on their primary objective - improving public schooling.

Posted

I'm troubled by what I've read. Whenever a report is commissioned on any issue, it's safe to assume there will be recommendations for more government oversight and spending, often in place of actual fact-finding. While ensuring government-mandated learning outcomes are met might sound innocuous to the uninitiated, those outcomes are a labyrinth of political objectives which make it look like a lot of learning is happening, taking time away from acquiring basic skills. I think the DOE should reject the author's conclusion that they need to expand their mandate, instead focussing efforts on their primary objective - improving public schooling.

 

I just read the minutes of the meeting homeschoolers were invited to yesterday with the DOE man in charge of receiving our paperwork, right after the AG gave his report. These minutes indicate that the AG has indeed not informed himself about home education, how it works, how successful it is. And there didn't seem to be anything significant that would have caused him to even choose the home education section of the DOE to audit. And the minutes also said that the DOE man seemed to say he does not agree with all the AG report recommendations. I met him last June at a curric. fair where he was invited to conduct a question/answer time. He seems to be VERY supportive of home education.

Posted

I'm doing great! The house is a mess but I'm allowed to start some light housework this week so that will change. :)

 

I read the notes as well. My thought is that we don't need a confrontational approach, esp. with the HSLDA. You know the whole come-from-away attitude here -if the gov't sees us as outsiders we'll get nowhere. Frankly, this is an AG report, not government legislation, so what we need to do is start making ourselves availible to the dept. of ed. Forcefully with our provincial groups but also I really think that contacting our NDP MLAs and getting them educated and familiar with us can't hurt at all. Even if we have Lib. and Con. MLAs it can't hurt as I'm fairly certain the next gov't (we'll have an election before the 2 year review of the report is up) won't be NDP.

 

I'd say we don't need to panic yet. This is our call to get involved in the review process, not go on the attack.

 

 

Posted

One more point, in the Chronicle-Herald article the minister of education, Ramon Jenkins stated that consultation with homeschoolers was going to be part of the process of dealing with the AG report. It really sounds like we've got no case for real worry yet, we just have to step up and get involved.

 

I really hate that NS is going to be framed as anti-homeschooling and used as a fundraiser for the HSLDA. :(

Posted

Cleo, were homeschoolers from other provinces able to do anything practical in Quebec during recent issues?

In all honesty, no. And Quebec being so insular, I don't think much would have helped either. However it did help (I think) when someone from Quebec was able to present how homeschooling is handled in other provinces, so the govt people could see we were not asking for the moon.

Also noteworthy is that HSLDA does not act directly in this province, but has teamed up with a Quebec association - in fact they ended up hiring the former president of that association so she can act as the HSLDA representative in Quebec. I guess it's for the language issue, but it does help as she's not perceived as being an outsider.

 

More?? Seriously? How so?

From what I've read your AG wants the DOE to have the ability to track students. We don't have that in Quebec. If a family wants to go "under", they move to another school board, and voilà, the trail goes dead. There's only tracking within a school board, but again it's limited to public school. If you go to a private school, the school board stops tracking.

There is talk of getting more tracking, it was tried, but our privacy laws forbid it. (they wanted to tie health care to school attendency but that's not allowed by the law, ministries are not allowed to share their databases)

Posted

Colleen, is your PM box full? I can't PM you! It's horrible! :D

No, it's not! And I have received pm's on this new site, so I don't know why you can send me one. But I did get your e-mail and I replied. And, I can't see you - it's horrible!! Hopefully soon. :D

 

And just as an update to readers, the uproar continues here in NS. The province's Education Minister Ramona Jennex will be interviewed about this on the radio tomorrow (Dawn, 95.7 FM). Can't wait to hear!

Posted

No, it's not! And I have received pm's on this new site, so I don't know why you can send me one. But I did get your e-mail and I replied. And, I can't see you - it's horrible!! Hopefully soon. :D

 

And just as an update to readers, the uproar continues here in NS. The province's Education Minister Ramona Jennex will be interviewed about this on the radio tomorrow (Dawn, 95.7 FM). Can't wait to hear!

 

I completely forgot! And I want to keep on top of this.

 

One really interesting thing that's coming out of this for me is the realization that the HSLDA in Canada may be a different beast then what's in the US. Not sure I'm comfortable with being a member yet but it's good to know.

Posted

I completely forgot! And I want to keep on top of this.

 

One really interesting thing that's coming out of this for me is the realization that the HSLDA in Canada may be a different beast then what's in the US. Not sure I'm comfortable with being a member yet but it's good to know.

 

HSLDA has always seemed to me much more mellow here - typically Canadian, lol!

 

I got through on the phone to comment on the radio about the interview! After some guy named James who mischaracterized homeschoolers by dividing us into degreed = capable of educating, non-degreed = not capable of educating. GRRRR!!!!!!! Although another commenter after me backed up what I had to say (basically, I doubt they will find very many homeschooling parents who are neglecting their educational duties; and even if they do, they will likely find FAR fewer educationally-neglected homeschooled kids than they would find educationally-neglected kids in our public system here). I realize that it's all about the criticism of the DOE's processing of our info. But, if the reason for this audit is to make sure all homeschoolers are getting educated, I think it may be a waste of time and money - we are such a small portion of the school-aged population here.

 

I recognized the voice and story another fellow homeschooler commenting. Anyway, Ms. Jennex seemed pretty positive about homeschoolers - mentioning some she knew whom she thought were doing a great job. She mentioned wanting to work WITH us; she really emphasized that. Maybe I tend to wear rosy glasses, but I tend to believe her. I thought it was a pretty positive interview.

 

I wonder if any of our American and international boardie friends are following this...

Posted

HSLDA has always seemed to me much more mellow here - typically Canadian, lol!

 

I got through on the phone to comment on the radio about the interview! After some guy named James who mischaracterized homeschoolers by dividing us into degreed = capable of educating, non-degreed = not capable of educating. GRRRR!!!!!!! Although another commenter after me backed up what I had to say (basically, I doubt they will find very many homeschooling parents who are neglecting their educational duties; and even if they do, they will likely find FAR fewer educationally-neglected homeschooled kids than they would find educationally-neglected kids in our public system here). I realize that it's all about the criticism of the DOE's processing of our info. But, if the reason for this audit is to make sure all homeschoolers are getting educated, I think it may be a waste of time and money - we are such a small portion of the school-aged population here.

 

I recognized the voice and story another fellow homeschooler commenting. Anyway, Ms. Jennex seemed pretty positive about homeschoolers - mentioning some she knew whom she thought were doing a great job. She mentioned wanting to work WITH us; she really emphasized that. Maybe I tend to wear rosy glasses, but I tend to believe her. I thought it was a pretty positive interview.

 

I wonder if any of our American and international boardie friends are following this...

 

 

Me too. This is sort of getting packaged as the gov't intruding on our rights but it's the Attorney General, not the gov't that wrote this report and he does not form gov't policy or legislation. Our relationship with the gov't has been good in the past and Ms. Jennex seems convinced that she should consult us. I don't think we can sit back and be complacent but it does sound like she is extending an invitation to us to get involved, not swallowing the AG report completely.

 

I'd like to get to the meeting with the HSLDA but Shannon has a bunch of appts. that day and I may have to move heaven and earth to get there. But I'm willing to do that. :D

Posted

Tibbie, thanks for your support!!!

 

Me too. This is sort of getting packaged as the gov't intruding on our rights but it's the Attorney General, not the gov't that wrote this report and he does not form gov't policy or legislation. Our relationship with the gov't has been good in the past and Ms. Jennex seems convinced that she should consult us. I don't think we can sit back and be complacent but it does sound like she is extending an invitation to us to get involved, not swallowing the AG report completely.

 

I'd like to get to the meeting with the HSLDA but Shannon has a bunch of appts. that day and I may have to move heaven and earth to get there. But I'm willing to do that. :D

 

I'm hoping to find a way to get there, too.

 

Radio interview link for anyone interested (I was the second female commenter after the interview): http://www.news957.c...november-26-9am

Posted

Audrey and anyone else who wants to support the Home Education community in Nova Scotia - how about coming over to this link, and either commenting or just clicking "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" icons?

 

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...-schooling.html

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. This link is the original radio interview Ms. Charron did - the written report took her comments out of context. http://www.cbc.ca/pl.../ID/2309331430/

Posted

We don't get funding either, and for many years they have just left us alone. One registration, one progress report per year.

 

HSLDA Canada has this to say: http://www.hslda.ca/...ar&month&page=1

 

And provincial homeschool group leaders have moved into action and will keep the rest of us informed. My Facebook local homeschool group has been buzzing all morning, and a local radio news show talked about it extensively with the Auditor General this morning. His report is based on looking at roughly just one-eighth of the student files here in NS.

 

Yes, the "only parent's opinion" part bothered me. One one hand, I see his point about wanting to look out for the ones who may truly not being educated (but I highly doubt there are many). On the other hand, those of us who have chosen to take on the home education task take this job VERY seriously. We work hard at it, even among our differences in educational philosophy. I know this; we talk to each other all the time. In recent years I've had people contact me to ask how to get started. These Moms are VERY keen on making sure they do a good job by their children. They truly do know what is best for their kids.

 

On the radio show this morning, the AG said the DOE gets questions from parents about how to get started, what curric. to use, etc., and that the DOE needs to be prepared to answer their questions. ?!?!?!?!!?!?!?! Hello, what about the DOE simply continuing to refer (they have some support groups listed on their site) newbies to the support groups, to the PARENTS WHO KNOW HOW TO DO THE JOB. The ones who have been through the registration process (even if just last week, or twenty years ago), who have gotten to know some of the curric./programs/outside classes/support groups/etc. in our area.

 

This is nervewracking. I hear the AG telling the DOE to get better at its oversight job. But the potential to mess with what we home educators already know how to do and are prepared to help newbies with, is nervewracking.

 

 

The times when we've had an office that presumed to give guidance and answer questions was when I saw the most error ridden handouts. What a government office needs to be prepared with is good communication about what they oversee (such as registration or notice of intent and processing of annual proof of progress reports - not sure what all applies in your situation). They need to not be overstepping their legal bounds, but do need to respond to actual required paperwork in a timely way.

 

They do not need to try to recommend curriculum providers; they don't have the time, money or staff to keep up on what is new and available. (At one point, I had an office telling me that I couldn't use one curriculum because it was too religious, but then sending me a list of previously approved curriculum that included Sonlight. But then these were the same folks who told me that my Redwall reading sons needed more kindergarten level books.)

 

If a government agency wanted to be MORE helpful than required by law, they could help with getting access to teacher support material in high school subjects. Because those are a bear to get ahold of. (Of course that might lead to them being more approving of one curriculum over another or even requiring certain materials.)

 

BTW, Colleen, I tried to send a PM and it seems your inbox is full.

Posted

Colleen,

 

I appreciate your updates. I'm sorry for all the frustration and hope it turns out well. We have good laws in NM, but there are a few people in our state legislature who always try to sneak something through whenever the legislature meets. BTW, I've tried to PM you but get an error message.

 

Martha

Posted

Sebastian and Martha, you are not the first ones to tell me you couldn't send me a pm. I'll see if I can figure out why - I haven't had much chance to explore the intricacies of the new board yet. Thanks, both, for your support.

Posted

Apparently a bunch of old pm's got re-dumped into my pm box, making it full. I've cleared them out; you all (Dawn, too!) should be able to pm me now.

 

 

Thanks for the update; I sent you a pm and this time it didn't bounce immediately! I read the warnings about the possibility of losing PM's when the board changed, so I copied some of the old ones, but every one of my messages made the transition!

Posted

Dawn, I just sent you an e-mail. I have no idea what updates you (and some others) are seeing, so I just keep forwarding what I'm receiving and finding out about. A central info. FB site has been set up - link is in the e-mail.

 

Colleen, is this FB site accessible to those not on FB?

Posted
Colleen, is this FB site accessible to those not on FB?

 

Yep: https://www.facebook.com/NovaScotiaHomeEducationCallToAction?fref=ts

 

I jumped in the deep end on this issue Colleen. I volunteered to fill an empty position on the executive of the NSHEA and they took me up on it. :D

 

Oh. my. word. Didn't you just join????? LOL, you are so funny! Seriously, you'll be a great communicator, though. Someone wanted to nominate me last spring for a position, and while I was honoured, I knew I couldn't do those jobs - too scary for me!

Posted

 

Oh. my. word. Didn't you just join????? LOL, you are so funny! Seriously, you'll be a great communicator, though. Someone wanted to nominate me last spring for a position, and while I was honoured, I knew I couldn't do those jobs - too scary for me!

 

Yes, I just joined. :D This is typical behaviour for women in my family - see a cause or issue and jump in with both feet. It never occurs to us we actually have to know what we're doing! But I think it will be interesting. I think you'd be great too. The homeschooling group you run and how you run it reveal a lot of talents that would be useful for just this sort of thing.

Posted

I'm sorry Colleen! This does sound like a difficult situation :grouphug:!

 

In our case (in BC) we can either register or enroll. By enrolling to a DL (Distributed Learning Program) we get funding but we have to ensure that we meet the local public school standards. We have our oldest enrolled in such a program but we choose the curriculum. For the past three years (this is our third year) I have not come across any issues with the two schools that we have enrolled with, in regards to curricula selection. There is also a lot of flexibility and the schools work with us. It also greatly depends on the teacher you have and their style of collecting the reports they need. This option eventually leads to a graduation diploma, which is something that we (as a family) have decided is important to us.

 

We have never gone the registered route, so I would be lying if I said I know what that entails here. I have to admit that it can get challenging and stressful having to balance the requirements, as set out by the government for the public school system, while trying to do what you feel is best for your child. So, with that in mind, I can definitely say that I understand how you feel! I got really close to just registering this year! It's been really hard!

 

Registering entails absolutely nothing. You register and that's it. No money and no oversight.

 

If what you want is a Dogwood, I think enrolling a third grader is probably surplus to requirements. It's relatively easy to begin school at the beginning of the high school program -- which is usually eighth grade.

Posted

Credits don't count towards graduation until 10th grade, so that might also be a natural time to enroll. Our enrolling school has K-9 and 10-12 set up quite differently.

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