Will this Kid EVER learn to read?

[A home for their hearts]

I am beating my head against the wall. My ds8 cannot read. And when I mean cannot, I mean cannot. I've tried everything and he just doesn't get it and really really struggles. We are Beta testing LOE's new Foundations program. I thought that would be the answer, but so far it hasn't work. I just feel like I am beating a dead horse. What am I suppose to do?

[Julie Smith]

Tis might make you feel better.

 

A friend of our family is a super smart robotics engineer (if I have that correct). He didn't learn how to read till he was 12. He sometimes goes to schools and speaks to the students about what he does now and the struggles he had.

 

He is over 6 foot 3 well built man. He makes quite an impression when he shows up with his flying robots and does a lecture.

[bluedarling]

Have you had him evaluated by a developmental optometrist? My son wouldn't hardly look at the page when he was that age, but by around 12yo was reading fabulously....attributed to vision therapy and puberty. I know you'll find recommendations for Barton on this board...I tried a lot of things, including other Orton-Gillingham based reading things, but I don't think it would have mattered if I used it for my child...his brain wasn't ready (including vision processsing). It depends on what the problem is! What problems is he having exactly? You might get more help by being more specific with what you are doing and what he doesn't get? My son's school for dyslexia he attended one year said 90% of the dyslexics have problems with phonological awareness...my son aced that! So different kids have different issues with reading.

[A home for their hearts]

At this point, I don't think it's his eyes. He doesn't know enough to even try to read a simple book. I write words on a white board for him to read. He is slowly, and I mean slowly, getting better at reading cvc words. He can not manage anything with more than three letters. He still can get confused after going through all the sounds in a word, which order the sounds were in. He is doing a lot better with this with cvc words, but give him a word like sift, and it's just too much. He'll say all the sounds correctly at first /s/ /i/ /f/ /t/, but by the time he gets to the end he forgets what the first sound was so he just starts guessing and adding sounds that wasn't even in the word. Now if we are blending words without anything written, if I say /c/ /a/ /t/, he can tell me cat, he can even segment it, but add that fourth sound in and forget it. We are really going at a snails pace. It probably took him a year to be able to blend cvc words. If you ask him the beginning sound in a word, he can tell you what it is, same with the ending sound, sometimes he can tell you the middle. So I'm really stumped if phonemic awareness is the culprit. I would love to have him tested, but we don't have insurance, even when we did it didn't cover testing. I've tried contacting our local school pyschologist for testing but never heard back for her.

 

Sometimes I really wonder what is the rush? All I'm accomplishing is his hatred for reading. Then I think of how people may think I can't teach my kid to read and he should be in school. It would be different if it was acceptable in our society for an 8 year old kid to not know how to read. It doesn't really seem to bother him that he can't read, that I've noticed anyway. It breaks my heart because he loves to get books from the library but he can't read them. He won't even ask me to read them, he just likes to look at the pictures. My ds11 struggled with learning to read, and he still does struggle. He refuses to even look at books he has such an aversion to them. I just don't want my ds8 to loose the love that he does have for books by getting to a point where he is so frustrated that he can't read them that he then sees books as useless.

[herekittykitty]

I do think there is a lot of pressure for kids to read at an early age, and it is hard when your child doesn't do that. I think you could do a couple of things. Have you ever considered the Davis method? My son and my father did it and it was wonderful. I think it is a great program for people who are visual spatial learners and really do not get phonics. My personal belief is that no program - Barton, Davis, whatever, is for everyone. And I don't think it is helpful to continue to beat your head against the wall with phonetic approaches if you aren't getting anywhere. If something isn't working, it's time to try something different. If you haven't looked into it, feel free to pm me and I'd be happy to share more.

 

You could also just back off for awhile and try to foster a love and enjoyment of reading via other ways - read alouds and audio books. We also just got a free membership to Bookshare (www.bookshare.org) and downloaded their ereading software to our Android tablet. It's like a regular ereader, except it has a "read to me" feature and the words of the book are highlighted as they are read. There are no pictures, but if he enjoys listening to books perhaps he could learn to follow along. The voice it comes with is pretty bad but you can download others. There are no books to buy either - you get access to the Bookshare library which seems to have everything.

[A home for their hearts]

I do think there is a lot of pressure for kids to read at an early age, and it is hard when your child doesn't do that. I think you could do a couple of things. Have you ever considered the Davis method? My son and my father did it and it was wonderful. I think it is a great program for people who are visual spatial learners and really do not get phonics. My personal belief is that no program - Barton, Davis, whatever, is for everyone. And I don't think it is helpful to continue to beat your head against the wall with phonetic approaches if you aren't getting anywhere. If something isn't working, it's time to try something different. If you haven't looked into it, feel free to pm me and I'd be happy to share more.

 

You could also just back off for awhile and try to foster a love and enjoyment of reading via other ways - read alouds and audio books. We also just got a free membership to Bookshare (www.bookshare.org) and downloaded their ereading software to our Android tablet. It's like a regular ereader, except it has a "read to me" feature and the words of the book are highlighted as they are read. There are no pictures, but if he enjoys listening to books perhaps he could learn to follow along. The voice it comes with is pretty bad but you can download others. There are no books to buy either - you get access to the Bookshare library which seems to have everything.

 

I've not heard of the Davis method. Could you tell me a little more about it?

 

I don't have a tablet would I be able to use bookshare with a nook?

 

Thanks so much for your encouragement everyone! It means a lot!

[herekittykitty]

It was developed by Ron Davis who wrote The Gift of Dyslexia. He believes dyslexics think in pictures, not words, and need to use visual spatial methods to read. If you haven't read it, it is commonly available at public libraries. This video is a nice summary of picture thinking:

 

 

Related to this, he believes dyslexics possess a unique perceptual talent. Basically they learn to rotate objects and see them from many perspectives at an early age. This is a wonderful quality but of course is disastrous when applied to 2D symbols such as numbers and letters.

 

The Davis program involves spending 1-2 weeks working with a trained facilitator and then there is considerable at home follow up - but no more than a regular curriculum. During the sessions, the facilitator teaches the person to control their perceptual talent, and clay is used to model all of the letters, as well as words that trigger confusion - these are any words that do not have a visual image associated with them - all of the common sight words basically. There is also an OT-type exercise involving koosh balls that involves crossing the midline - common to many brain training type programs. We did the program last Jan. and still do all of this regularly at home.

 

This is a really short summary, but gives you an idea that it is a totally different method. As a non-dyslexic, left brained person, I do not learn this way at all. There were times I thought, "Clay? Really?" But it worked wonders for my son and my over age 60 father, who now reads novels for the first time in his life. The clay turns 2D words into 3D objects. The quality of the facilitator matters a TON. Just like any tutor, really. They need to have a lot of experience and good references. They usually provide a free consultation to determine if a person is has the necessary visual/picture thinking abilities to be successful. We were fortunate to have someone locally.

 

Here is the program's web site: http://www.dyslexia.com/program.htm

[Shellers]

My ds12 didn't learn to read until he was 11. He had been in public school, with an IEP for six years! I didn't learn until the end of 4th grade that his school had labeled him, "severly dyslexic". I can remember wondering if he would ever read. He's a reader now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LizzyBee]

There is a ton of information at www.dys-add.com.

[LizzyBee]

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[PeterPan]

At this point, I don't think it's his eyes. He doesn't know enough to even try to read a simple book. I write words on a white board for him to read. He is slowly, and I mean slowly, getting better at reading cvc words. He can not manage anything with more than three letters. He still can get confused after going through all the sounds in a word, which order the sounds were in. He is doing a lot better with this with cvc words, but give him a word like sift, and it's just too much. He'll say all the sounds correctly at first /s/ /i/ /f/ /t/, but by the time he gets to the end he forgets what the first sound was so he just starts guessing and adding sounds that wasn't even in the word. Now if we are blending words without anything written, if I say /c/ /a/ /t/, he can tell me cat, he can even segment it, but add that fourth sound in and forget it. We are really going at a snails pace. It probably took him a year to be able to blend cvc words. If you ask him the beginning sound in a word, he can tell you what it is, same with the ending sound, sometimes he can tell you the middle. So I'm really stumped if phonemic awareness is the culprit. I would love to have him tested, but we don't have insurance, even when we did it didn't cover testing. I've tried contacting our local school pyschologist for testing but never heard back for her.

 

Sometimes I really wonder what is the rush? All I'm accomplishing is his hatred for reading. Then I think of how people may think I can't teach my kid to read and he should be in school. It would be different if it was acceptable in our society for an 8 year old kid to not know how to read. It doesn't really seem to bother him that he can't read, that I've noticed anyway. It breaks my heart because he loves to get books from the library but he can't read them. He won't even ask me to read them, he just likes to look at the pictures. My ds11 struggled with learning to read, and he still does struggle. He refuses to even look at books he has such an aversion to them. I just don't want my ds8 to loose the love that he does have for books by getting to a point where he is so frustrated that he can't read them that he then sees books as useless.

 

Just as an out of the blue, aside, not at all connected thing, did he by chance have speech delays when he was young? Some of what you're describing is what I could see happening in my ds in a few years (just given where he is now).

 

Anyways, with what you've described, doesn't sound like you've had the chance to teach a child who didn't struggle, mercy. Yes, at age 8, with the instruction you've given (in LOE, etc.), he should be able to tell you the middle sound in a 3 sound word. The fact that he's *not* hearing it means he's got a glitch in his phonological or auditory processing or both. That's actually why I asked if he had a speech problem at some point, because the two can go together. Anyways, you might look into Earobics for him. I like LOE, but it doesn't sound like what you need right now. I hate it that all these OG-style programs seem so interchangeable. It makes it hard for someone to buy something with their hard-earned money and know it's what they need.

 

There's a free list of the steps of phonological awareness at the phonologicalawareness.org site.

 

You might get his eyes checked just to make sure. Has he had a regular vision exam? That's all you need to do, but when you do it got to a good developmental optometrist. Costs the same, but they can *screen* for the extra things. That way you know you're not missing anything.

 

Try bringing some whole word into your time. My dd wouldn't have learned to read if I had required her to sound out. She never got comfortable sounding out till after vision therapy (age 11). We took the words in our SWR and put them onto flashcards for her to practice reading.

[A home for their hearts]

Just as an out of the blue, aside, not at all connected thing, did he by chance have speech delays when he was young? Some of what you're describing is what I could see happening in my ds in a few years (just given where he is now).

 

Anyways, with what you've described, doesn't sound like you've had the chance to teach a child who didn't struggle, mercy. Yes, at age 8, with the instruction you've given (in LOE, etc.), he should be able to tell you the middle sound in a 3 sound word. The fact that he's *not* hearing it means he's got a glitch in his phonological or auditory processing or both. That's actually why I asked if he had a speech problem at some point, because the two can go together. Anyways, you might look into Earobics for him. I like LOE, but it doesn't sound like what you need right now. I hate it that all these OG-style programs seem so interchangeable. It makes it hard for someone to buy something with their hard-earned money and know it's what they need.

 

There's a free list of the steps of phonological awareness at the phonologicalawareness.org site.

 

You might get his eyes checked just to make sure. Has he had a regular vision exam? That's all you need to do, but when you do it got to a good developmental optometrist. Costs the same, but they can *screen* for the extra things. That way you know you're not missing anything.

 

Try bringing some whole word into your time. My dd wouldn't have learned to read if I had required her to sound out. She never got comfortable sounding out till after vision therapy (age 11). We took the words in our SWR and put them onto flashcards for her to practice reading.

 

Yes, he did have speech delays. He really didn't start talking until he was 2 1/1- 3, and when he did talk it was hard to understand him, even as his mother I had trouble figuring out what he wanted. He had almost a year of speech therapy at age 5 which helped a lot. He still has trouble with the voiced /th/ and there are still some words that he says wrong, where he moves the sounds around in the word. He also has trouble forming past tense correctlyl. He had a regular vision exam around the age of 6, but not by a developmental optometrist.

 

I've always been leery of teaching reading by sight. That was how I was taught and I really struggled. I'll look into Earobics.

 

Thanks!

[merry gardens]

I agree with Elizabeth that it sounds like problems with phonological awareness. You might also look at LiPS http://www.ganderpub...g.com/LiPS.html by Lindamood-Bell.

 

My ds started working with LiPS after he failed a portion of a screen for a dyslexia program called Barton Reading and Spelling. http://bartonreading...ong.html#screen You can give that simple screen at home yourself as long as you can pass a simple tutor screen designed to make sure you can hear the sounds too.http://bartonreading...ors.html#screen

 

My ds made very little progress with reading before doing a portion of LiPS and then starting Barton. It wasn't for lack of trying! We unsuccessfully attempted several methods and programs, including others that people mentioned here that they used with success. They weren't enough to teach my ds how to read. Then I turned to Barton, which covers phonological awareness in their first level--and the screen results showed that ds confused so many consonant and vowel sounds that we needed LiPS before starting Barton.

[PeterPan]

Yes, he did have speech delays. He really didn't start talking until he was 2 1/1- 3, and when he did talk it was hard to understand him, even as his mother I had trouble figuring out what he wanted. He had almost a year of speech therapy at age 5 which helped a lot. He still has trouble with the voiced /th/ and there are still some words that he says wrong, where he moves the sounds around in the word. He also has trouble forming past tense correctlyl. He had a regular vision exam around the age of 6, but not by a developmental optometrist.

 

I've always been leery of teaching reading by sight. That was how I was taught and I really struggled. I'll look into Earobics.

 

Thanks!

 

My ds4 has verbal apraxia (late talking due to motor control). His speech therapist puts all the kids through Earobics, because there's a known correlation between the speech problems and hearing the sounds correctly. Earobics, Lips, they're all good. We're doing PROMPT for speech therapy, and it gives us that ability to get the kinesthetic, physical input for how to make the sound such that I don't *think* we'll need to do Lips, but I could be wrong. I'm just taking it one step at a time.

 

And yes, I'm with Merry in saying that these basic programs like AAS/AAR, LOE, SWR, and so on sometimes aren't going to break the steps down enough and get them there. I got AAR pre- to use with my ds this year, and while he LOVES the methodology (puppet, games, cute worksheets), he can't do any of the rhyming or phonemic awareness in it AT ALL. I'll probably try SWR with him, simply because I have it, but if I don't see that connecting, I'm going to move on pretty quickly to something more powerful. Like Merry says, I think Barton is the canon, the bazooka, the let's get this done.

 

When I put those words on flashcards for my dd, they were words she had sounded through and actively understood the spelling of. So if I gave her letter tiles and asked her to spell the word, she could spell it. I was putting the words on flashcards to build fluency with reading. What she couldn't do was sound out words to read. She has astonishingly good reading btw (like age 30+, off the charts). So it's only *sounding out* I'm saying is optional. They still need to understand the components of the words and how to build them. The flashcards build fluency in what they already understand.

[Ottakee]

Another option is www.iseesam.com or www.3rsplus.com The I See Sam books are the ONLY thing that got my younger 2 reading. I have a degree in special ed and tried many programs but they learned with this one.

 

I agree further testing. Do you see other academic delays or is reading his only delay?

[Pen]

In answer to your question, probably yes, but even though it seems like you have tried a lot of things (though not even close to "everything" even though it is overwhelming and probably feels like "everything"), you probably have just not yet found the one that is right for him. And it will probably be a program specifically intended for children with reading difficulties, not a regular program.

 

Alas, what works for one child may not work for another. For my son the key thing that finally helped was (sorry, I can barely use this "new and improved" forums format and have not figured out how I can make it put a link), www.highnoonbooks.com I started my son on both the Sound Out Chapter books and the Reading Intervention program (they work well together). My ds read all the CVC Sound Out Chapter books 3 times each, out loud till each was quite fluent (I was told I could do a first reading for him, but he did not want that, and if it had taken 4 readings till fluency, would have done that...in ds's case it took 3), at the end of which he was ready for the next step of CVCe. Then it went on to blends, working on, at first, just one blend at a time. Usually he would work on the Intervention program material first and then when he had gotten to a Sound Out Chapter book level would move to that. We started right with a review of the alphabet and basic sounds. Getting to the first Chapter Book (The Red Cap) was a big thing for his self confidence. Before he ever finished the High Noon program he became able to read Magic Tree House (or, in other words, books not carefully structured around levels like CVC, just before he was seriously too old for its content. Again, he read nearly all of the then 40 something books plus fact trackers in the series, often several times and aloud for fluency. Then he started into books at his interest level and became an avid reader. He still cannot read nonsense words, thus even now would probably not be able to manage level 1 of Barton. But he loves reading (Harry Potter right now at age 10). Some combo of sounding out words and learning common sight words and much repetition for fluency (he still reads aloud several times per week) in context of an actual story worked for him. I'd suggest adding High Noon to the other things you take a look at.

[PeterPan]

Another option is www.iseesam.com or www.3rsplus.com The I See Sam books are the ONLY thing that got my younger 2 reading. I have a degree in special ed and tried many programs but they learned with this one.

 

I agree further testing. Do you see other academic delays or is reading his only delay?

 

Just as an aside, did you see they're coming out with an app for the I See Sam stuff? I definitely like this move toward stuff I can use on my ipad...

[A home for their hearts]

I looked into the Davis program some and the nearest facilitator is 2 hours away. I'm not even sure if it would be worth my contacting for pricing enough when they are so far away.

 

I've heard of LiPs but we don't have a center in our state, so that is out also unless I could do it at home?

 

I tried the first level of Barton over the summer and we didn't get too far into it. It was too big of a learning curve for me and I just didn't have the time to devote to it to really learn the steps.

 

I have some of the I See Sam readers, I might pull those out and try. I'll also look into the High Noon materials

[PeterPan]

Hey I tried to pm you and it said it couldn't go through. Maybe your box is full or something? In any case, if you still have your Barton and ever decide to sell (in the next year or two, no rush), think of me. :)

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I too wonder this about my dd 9... I have never had her tested.

 

She is bright, funny, great at math! And she is making some progress, but Teach your child in 100 ez lessons worked with my first 3. I can't take much credit with 2 who could read some before formal lessons and just took off with them. We have also used HOP program that my dear father bought after I had our 3rd child. :)

I try to teach 2 at a time if possible. So, she was so disappointed that her brother took off without her.

 

I read the first WTM book in 2002 with suggestions for TYC in 100 EZ lessons, so SWB did not have anything out yet for writing or reading. We have been in a Classical Suport group and had mentor's, sought wisdom from other families who have had struggling readers. I think if we just keep trying and don't give up, we will find a way!

I am very thankful for this forum now that I do not have a support group. I plan to use Ordinary Parents Guide and flashcards along with Earobics 2, I think 1 did help some.

I am trying to teach 3 to read now at a time and it is difficult to make the time. I am asking my older children to help some during this time.

 

I don't man to hijack your thread, btw! I just wanted to let you know I have had 2 struggling readers and have 8 children now, so who knows what else will come up!

[DyslexicParent]

Sometimes I really wonder what is the rush?

:

My ds11 struggled with learning to read, and he still does struggle. He refuses to even look at books he has such an aversion to them.

All the reading research shows the importance of early intervention. The older a person is, the harder it is to catch up. I regret not finding out earlier that my 11-year old has dyslexia despite having two psychoeducational assessments done since grade 1 but no reading remediation ever done by the school.

 

Did any of the parents or grandparents also have reading problems? Dyslexia is highly hereditary.

I looked into the Davis program some and the nearest facilitator is 2 hours away. I'm not even sure if it would be worth my contacting for pricing enough when they are so far away.

 

I've heard of LiPs but we don't have a center in our state, so that is out also unless I could do it at home?

I looked into the same options as you. In my case, I was lucky to find a dyslexia/LD expert and paid for an hour's worth of language-related tests for my child; it was very affordable without a written report and I just took lots of notes of the test results and recommendations.

 

The unproven Davis Dyslexia Correction Program costs almost $4,000 for only 30 hours of training. I have started reading the books Overcoming Dyslexia, Davis' The Gift of Dyslexia, and The Dyslexic Advantage. I would try LiPS and Orton-Gillingham programs before the Davis Program, vision therapy and many other unscientific interventions for dyslexia.

 

It's possible that your son(s) has a problem with auditory discrimination and/or memory. As Susan Barton advises, you can search for LiPS tutors or any speech language pathologists who has had LiPS training in your area. If you can't afford a full assessment or LiPS tutor, another option is to try to learn LiPS yourself using the workshop and/or DVDs. Good luck to both of us! :grouphug:

[Χά�ων]

It was developed by Ron Davis who wrote The Gift of Dyslexia. He believes dyslexics think in pictures, not words, and need to use visual spatial methods to read. If you haven't read it, it is commonly available at public libraries.

 

I have read the book. I can honestly say with 100% certainty this is not the case for my DS. Judging by the love the book is shown at the local homeschool support groups I have to admit that it must fit some people but to be honest it drives me nuts when i say DS has dyslexia and people assume they know all about it because they read that book. Dyslexia has many different causes and for my DS this is not the cause of his dyslexia. I have tried many things with DS, spent countless hours and more money then I care to admit with no results. We are just now getting answers after under going a screening process (8 hours worth of testing) and following what was found but it is not cheap and it is not fast. We have started on vision therapy and corrective glasses and while he was considered severely affected visually that is nothing compared to where he is with his hearing and auditory processing. You can't teach a child phonics if they can't actually hear the sounds and you can't teach a child sight words if they can't see the words.

[PeterPan]

I have read the book. I can honestly say with 100% certainty this is not the case for my DS. Judging by the love the book is shown at the local homeschool support groups I have to admit that it must fit some people but to be honest it drives me nuts when i say DS has dyslexia and people assume they know all about it because they read that book. Dyslexia has many different causes and for my DS this is not the cause of his dyslexia. I have tried many things with DS, spent countless hours and more money then I care to admit with no results. We are just now getting answers after under going a screening process (8 hours worth of testing) and following what was found but it is not cheap and it is not fast. We have started on vision therapy and corrective glasses and while he was considered severely affected visually that is nothing compared to where he is with his hearing and auditory processing. You can't teach a child phonics if they can't actually hear the sounds and you can't teach a child sight words if they can't see the words.

 

What you're describing is why so many of us on the boards encourage people to get their dc's eyes checked, because you never know if there's a physical problem compounding the issues. On the VSL thing, I'll throw out something for you though. My dd, according to her label and the books, *should* be VSL. And in fact she does things you think fit the VSL profile. However she didn't actually think in pictures till AFTER VT. Her tendency is STILL to revert back to using her auditory processing (because it's stronger) rather than her visual processing. So think about the screwy situation where you've got a dc who SHOULD be VSL by brain dominance, by structure, but who, because of the physical vision problems, isn't having that fully connect and kick in. So then they're using what, by brain structure, is going to be a weaker method for them. So then nothing is working optimally! You do the VT, get the visual processing to kick in, get the VSL going, and then their strengths start to come out. My dd made HUGE leaps after VT. It was like she went back and re-learned and resaw everything.

 

So maybe VT will move that for you too and you'll start to see some of the VSL stuff come out. You never know.

[A home for their hearts]

Is there a difference between doing vision therapy or using classes with speical prisms in them? The eye doctor I went for my older ds said he always try's classes with prisms in them first, then if that doesn't work he does vision therapy. My ds11 refuses to wear the classes. I have seen some improvement in his reading after doing about 4 weeks of vision therapy. I have yet to have my ds8 tested for tracking issues since I'm pretty sure the culprit right now is auditory, although we may run in to some vision issues once he is able to start reading.

 

As for testing for auditory processing issues how is this tested for and who would I take my ds to for testing? I'm assuming a regular hearing exam wouldn't pick up on auditory issues.

 

OhElizabeth, not sure why your pm didn't go through I don't think my box is full. I no longer have Barton, I sold it and now I wish I hadn't!

[wapiti]

Is there a difference between doing vision therapy or using classes with speical prisms in them? The eye doctor I went for my older ds said he always try's classes with prisms in them first, then if that doesn't work he does vision therapy. My ds11 refuses to wear the classes. I have seen some improvement in his reading after doing about 4 weeks of vision therapy.

 

Of course there is a difference between VT and prism glasses - they are different treatments - although there may be differences of opinion amongst docs on whether and when to use either.

 

I have yet to have my ds8 tested for tracking issues since I'm pretty sure the culprit right now is auditory, although we may run in to some vision issues once he is able to start reading.

 

 

If you suspect the possibility of vision issues, why couldn't such issues impede his reading to begin with? I would not make the assumption that they wouldn't.

 

(FWIW, one of my kids had great difficulty blending. She had a few vision issues, including but not limited to tracking, that were fixed with VT, and her reading level jumped a couple grade levels over six months. Much later testing with an SLP revealed no issues with phonemic awareness).

[A home for their hearts]

Of course there is a difference between VT and prism glasses - they are different treatments - although there may be differences of opinion amongst docs on whether and when to use either.

 

 

 

If you suspect the possibility of vision issues, why couldn't such issues impede his reading to begin with? I would not make the assumption that they wouldn't.

 

(FWIW, one of my kids had great difficulty blending. She had a few vision issues, including but not limited to tracking, that were fixed with VT, and her reading level jumped a couple grade levels over six months. Much later testing with an SLP revealed no issues with phonemic awareness).

 

 

The reason why I'm saying it may not be vision at this point is because I'm not even having him try to read anything unless I've written it, or he has, on a white board. So the size would be rather large. But who knows, maybe he does have vision issues.

[wapiti]

The reason why I'm saying it may not be vision at this point is because I'm not even having him try to read anything unless I've written it, or he has, on a white board. So the size would be rather large. But who knows, maybe he does have vision issues.

 

FWIW, where a sibling has known vision issues, and the child in question is having such great difficulty and is so far below grade level in reading, IMO it only makes sense to rule out the possibility of a vision component at this point in time (keeping in mind that there is more to vision than acuity, so the large size might not overcome that). If there is a vision component, work on the auditory component may only go so far.

[Χά�ων]

What you're describing is why so many of us on the boards encourage people to get their dc's eyes checked, because you never know if there's a physical problem compounding the issues. On the VSL thing, I'll throw out something for you though. My dd, according to her label and the books, *should* be VSL. And in fact she does things you think fit the VSL profile. However she didn't actually think in pictures till AFTER VT. Her tendency is STILL to revert back to using her auditory processing (because it's stronger) rather than her visual processing. So think about the screwy situation where you've got a dc who SHOULD be VSL by brain dominance, by structure, but who, because of the physical vision problems, isn't having that fully connect and kick in. So then they're using what, by brain structure, is going to be a weaker method for them. So then nothing is working optimally! You do the VT, get the visual processing to kick in, get the VSL going, and then their strengths start to come out. My dd made HUGE leaps after VT. It was like she went back and re-learned and resaw everything.

 

So maybe VT will move that for you too and you'll start to see some of the VSL stuff come out. You never know.

 

DS has had his eyes check by 2 different optometrists and 1 ophthalmologists in the past year. He has been seen regularly every year before that since he was 18 months old and recieved a clean bill of health every time. DS is in vision therapy (insurance pays 100% of it) and after 4 months I have seen no improvement. None. Not one little bit. Literally nothing. I want to stress no change. I plan to stick with it as long as insurance pays for it in case it is helping in some small way that will be apparent down the road, but I am not holding my breath. Honestly, if I was paying out of pocket I would not continue.

 

I know many people who swear by VT but I cannot see the point. It is not something I would recommend to people especially if they are paying out of pocket for it.

[PeterPan]

DS has had his eyes check by 2 different optometrists and 1 ophthalmologists in the past year. He has been seen regularly every year before that since he was 18 months old and recieved a clean bill of health every time. DS is in vision therapy (insurance pays 100% of it) and after 4 months I have seen no improvement. None. Not one little bit. Literally nothing. I want to stress no change. I plan to stick with it as long as insurance pays for it in case it is helping in some small way that will be apparent down the road, but I am not holding my breath. Honestly, if I was paying out of pocket I would not continue.

 

I know many people who swear by VT but I cannot see the point. It is not something I would recommend to people especially if they are paying out of pocket for it.

 

Why in the WORLD are you staying with it if there's no change? You should see changes within a week, at least in the ability to do the tasks, and you should see changes that carry over to real life in a matter of months. If you aren't, either your DOC is no good (this happens) or the doc didn't catch some other issues that hinder the VT (this happens too). Your dc could have retained primitive reflexes or sensory integration problems or other reasons why the VT is not sticking. I would NEVER suggest someone stick blindly with some doc who is not getting results. NO, NO, NO. You're wasting your time and the insurance coverage that could you be getting care that is working. I like VT, but I would figure out why it's not working. Something is fishy about that.

[PeterPan]

The reason why I'm saying it may not be vision at this point is because I'm not even having him try to read anything unless I've written it, or he has, on a white board. So the size would be rather large. But who knows, maybe he does have vision issues.

 

I'm sorry because I've already lost track of who the op was and what the question was. In any case, developmental vision problems are not merely a print size issue. They can track developmental vision issues in a very young child. How his developmental vision works will affect how his *visual memory* develops. Since visual memory is CRUCIAL for learning to read and spell, it makes life awfully sucky and hard to work without. It's not merely font size.

[PeterPan]

Is there a difference between doing vision therapy or using classes with speical prisms in them? The eye doctor I went for my older ds said he always try's classes with prisms in them first, then if that doesn't work he does vision therapy. My ds11 refuses to wear the classes. I have seen some improvement in his reading after doing about 4 weeks of vision therapy. I have yet to have my ds8 tested for tracking issues since I'm pretty sure the culprit right now is auditory, although we may run in to some vision issues once he is able to start reading.

 

As for testing for auditory processing issues how is this tested for and who would I take my ds to for testing? I'm assuming a regular hearing exam wouldn't pick up on auditory issues.

 

OhElizabeth, not sure why your pm didn't go through I don't think my box is full. I no longer have Barton, I sold it and now I wish I hadn't!

 

Sigh, you know there's such a big spread in docs for this, just like there are in OBs or anything else. We understand this with other types of docs but seem to lump all these eye docs together. Anyways, at our place prism glasses are *part* of an approach but not a replacement for VT. I sure wouldn't let it go at that. But I guess I'm black and white. The prism glasses I *think* are a temporary accommodation to ease struggling eyes, not a permanent solution. There's a big range of experience with these docs. I'd look for a 2nd opinion personally.

 

Well bummer on selling your Barton! Sounds like after you get through a few things, Barton would be what you're wanting. I definitely want to see it at some point. With my dd I used SWR, but we ended up doing a multi-pronged approach (making books using our words, much like the I See Sam stuff, making flashcards, using manipulatives). The price tag for Barton seems awful, but I'm fascinated to see what it gives you for all that. I don't see how I could have broken down SWR more than I did. At that point I would have been reinventing what Barton, etc. already is, meaning it's easier to buy. And there are some things, like syllabication, that I didn't feel SWR did a good job with or made explicit enough for dd. Ds is only 4, so I'll just watch how it goes the next year or two and decide. I don't really know how young Barton is recommended for anyway. (K5? 1st?) Maybe somebody said there was a pre- level of Wilson that worked out really well as a precursor to Barton? I don't remember. He's growing up so fast, whew! At this point I'm just focusing on Earobics and letter of the week. Then we'll dip our toes into some reading/spelling stuff and see what happens.

[herekittykitty]

There are a lot of options to look into on this thread. For me, the key was to research all of them as much as humanly possible, and then use that knowledge combined with what I knew about my child to make a decision. I think evaluations are a crucial part of that process. I don't think you have to do a full neuropsych eval, but I think an exam by a COVD, pediatric audiologist and OT eval would be very helpful IMO.

 

I absolutely agree that no program, therapy, etc. is for everyone and that dyslexia has many different causes. I wanted to clarify that re: Davis. It's not for everyone, just as Barton, LiPs, Fast Foward, etc. aren't either. But it is absolutely works for some people, just as the other programs do. And it isn't unproven to me, because it worked for my child and my father, as well as about 20+ of the references that I checked. Several people that I know did Barton for a year+ with frustration, then switched to Davis with great results. I have no doubt that the reverse is also true - that some people who did Davis didn't get good results and then did great with Barton, or something else. It's not a matter of what program is the best one, it's figuring out what is the best for your child. I wish you lots of luck and good thoughts as you sort through all of available options!

[Lecka]

I have despaired also with my son, and I know EXACTLY what you are talking about when you mention consonant blends. EXACTLY!!!! They are so hard.

 

On the positive side -- my son is reading at grade level now. I still see signs of his problems, but he is grade-level. He is 7 but I did major remediation with him for about 18 months (ending about 6 months ago now -- now we are doing fluency but he is likely going to need more remediation for multisyllable words).

 

My top recommendation is to read Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz. I have some frustrations with this book, but it explains the whole phonemic awareness thing pretty well. And, why it is difficult to match the letter sounds to the words and sound out words.

 

My second is to look at things he is doing well and cater to that. My top recommendation for this is Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides. However my caveat is that this book is full of people who never learn to read well, and I find that disheartening as a person who is at my stage in this journey. So I would not, in particular, look at this book as a guide or roadmap for learning to read. My son does not even seem to fit any of the types. HOWEVER, he totally responds to some of the suggestions for ways of teaching kids, and for that this book is very, very valuable.

 

My third is to do what you can to be positive and only ask him things he can succeed at. For me ------- this meant asking my son to copy me!!!! Not to ask him a question and "test" him, but just copy me. If he could copy me correctly, I could tell him he was doing good :) I am hopeful with your son not at school, that he will have had fewer negative experiences of not knowing answers. My son is in public school (the right choice for our family at this time) and I have to say ------ sending him to school is probably not going to solve problems unless the school is going to work with him as he needs. If they will work with him as he needs (with a good program for dyslexia) then that would be good. If not -- there is no reason to expect them to have better results than you have had. I also have this opinion ---- it required many many hours of one-on-one for my son. His school just could not supply him with that amount of time. Just not possible. I could burst out in nervous laughter at the thought of it.

 

I also TOTALLY get Barton 1 being hard. Barton 1 was EXTREMELY IMPOSSIBLE for my son. I used it in an adapted way for that reason, but still found the dvds invaluable to me (to me personally -- though for someone experienced with LOE this might not be the case). What I do believe (based on reading Overcoming Dyslexia and other books) is that without these foundational skills, my son is not going to be able to advance. So he has to get them. I don't think this means Davis is not going to be effective for children who sound like that type, but my son is just not. I have read the book and it just didn't sound like my son.

 

To be encouraging, my son has made faster progress after getting the hang of sounding out words. He has not made equally slow progress since. So, just b/c this is really difficult, it does not mean every stage of reading will go so slowly and difficultly. I do think my son still works harder and requires more repetitions than many other children, but once he started making progress, it did not worry me the same way. It is very stressful to have a child who can't sound out CVC or is just a little past that little, working on CVCC or CCVC.

 

I am hopeful for your son! I think you sound committed and that counts for a huge amount.

[A home for their hearts]

I've decided I will have him evaluated for vision problems at the beginning of the year. RIght now, having him evaluated for anything else is out of the question, we just can't afford it.

 

Lecka, you said you did major remediation with your son, may I ask what you used? I've read Overcoming Dyslexia but it's been awhile so I'll look through it again. I read half of The Gift of Dyslexia but stopped when I read here that it was an unproven method. Maybe I'll pick it up again too.

 

thanks everyone for your encouraging words and advice. My plan right now it to continue with LOE and then switch to AAR in January, I have a friend who is going to let me borrow it. I also have a program that's suppose to be similiar to Earobics, it's called Sound Reading. I'll have him start on that and she how he does. He really enjoyed Reading Eggs last year. He didn't get very far but he was begging me to let him do it again, so that's on the list as well.

[PeterPan]

Check your settings for private messages. I tried to write you and it still wouldn't go through. Maybe you have it set not to receive pm? Or write me privately.

[A home for their hearts]

Check your settings for private messages. I tried to write you and it still wouldn't go through. Maybe you have it set not to receive pm? Or write me privately.

 

 

Not sure, it was fine until the conversion. I'll look into it.

[Lecka]

I have used: I See Sam. The first set I think is very good. The 2nd and 3rd set were very difficult and I think I would have been better off to work with him in an easier way. There was a lot of frustration with it. But, I think it is very good, also. I think I should have gone a lot slower.

 

Barton Level 1. The dvds were extremely helpful to me. However it was too hard. Also, at the time my son didn't know any sight words, so I didn't see any need to use nonsense words. Also, I have read some things suggesting he could benefit from using letter tiles. B/c he was basically a total non-reader, this could help him. For a child who has learned a lot of sight words it would be a crutch in a bad way. I think Barton is very good but I made a decision to try to do something that would follow a public school curriculum. Now down the road ---- my son is looking like he is not going to pick up multisyllable words without more remediation and that might mean Barton this summer (I am trying not to stress this at this time, b/c he is doing good working on fluency with easier words, and that is fine right now).

 

All About Spelling. My son did CVC words with this program!!!!!! I was doing things from Barton Level 1 and Abecedarian with the letter tiles also (for some variety). He became able to sound out (not "read" but sound out, which was a major accomplishment) cvcc words (sift is cvcc -- c is consonant, v is vowel) using All About Spelling, but it took a long time, and I was doing other things at the same time (I See Sam, etc). I was trying any suggestion I could find. It just took a lot of repetition. He learned the "silent e" rule thing from here, having a word like "mat" and adding a letter tile "e" to make it "mate." He learned that in about a week and did not have trouble applying it. Very heartening!!!!! That was much easier for him to learn than sounding out cvcc. But it was nice for both of us b/c that is supposed to be "hard."

 

Abecedarian Level B. This is from abcdrp.com . I am a big fan of this program b/c I think the error correction videos are so helpful and the free resources are so helpful. My son did very good with Level B. I can't say how he would have done with Level A. I have used the word chains from the free "blending and segmenting guide" but I used them with letter tiles from All About Spelling (just what I had) and using the techniques from Barton Level 1. I don't think Abecedarian is a program for kids who pick things up a little faster than my son. For him it is the right amount of repetition and speed. Aka the speed is fairly slow and the repetition is fairly high. I think for kids who "cheat" by picking up patterns without really, truly learning them it is not a good program -- they will need a program with nonsense words. My son just doesn't learn quickly enough to need nonsense words. Just my opinion.

 

Now we are doing fluency -- basically reading together. He is good with one and two syllable words. He can read some longer words, if they are pretty phonetic. If he cannot easily tell where to divide a word into syllables he is very stumped. But I think it is a little soon to address this, I think he needs to get more solid at his current level. It is looking like he will need a special program, though, vs. just picking it up on his own with exposure.

 

About reading I have some other favorite references. I love two books about phonics by Wiley Blevins. I have read Phonics A-Z and the sequel (something about Intermediate Phonics or Intermediate Word Study). He writes for Scholastic and he is an experienced classroom teacher. His books agree with Overcoming Dyslexia, but he has the perspective of a reading teacher. They are not curriculums but they are very informative. I also really like the website for reading rockets. (www.readingrockets.org) hidden around on this website are little videos of people at famous schools working with children, and they really do look like the same techniques as far as having letter tiles of some kind, and the kid smooshing them to make a word. One has a very cute slide drawing on her table, and the boy pulls down the letters, and then "slides" them together to make a word, and at the bottom of the slide say the word. I have nothing that cute, but it is the same technique ;) I can never find these videos when I want to see them again, though.

 

From an earlier post you mention that your son can usually hear the first and last sound in a word, but only sometimes the middle. To me that sounds like he cannot easily segment a word into all its sounds. If that is the case -- I do think it sounds like phonemic awareness is something to address. If his phonemic awareness is good, he should be able to segment about any word into all its sounds. And not with you saying it slow for him :) I mean -- to scaffold and help him get a right answer,yes. To say if he can do it or not, no. My son took Dibels reading screening at school and I found from that that I was kind-of cheating. For that screening they do not say a word really slow, they say it normal speed (though saying it clearly) and that is the standard they have. Though -- it is also a developing skill and it is not going to be perfect. It will develop along with reading. But, if reading is not developing, then phonemic awareness might help. There is a big argument that phonemic awareness is an artificial skill, that it develops as children learn to pay attention to all parts of a word as they read. Well -- yes, that is true, you can start to read easy things while phonemic awareness is at a lower level, and they develop together. But I think -- it is a stupid argument to make with someone whose child is not reading, b/c then obviously their phonemic awareness is not being developed through reading. I see that side to some extent, though, but more as something to keep in mind.

 

My son also had very poor speech articulation and did not pass the screening for Barton Level 1. So I was also adapting it to work on the speech sounds I knew he knew. I added in other speech sounds as he got to them. So he could progress in his skills anyway. I just gave any answer or word or sound within a word (if appropriate) that he had not done in speech. A bad time we had with I See Sam involved a story with the words "sell" and "shell" and I didn't know at the time he could not really tell the "s" and "sh" sounds apart.... I felt like a real idiot after he started working on telling those sounds (and "ch") apart in speech about 3 months later. So -- in hindsight I would have gotten more on the same page with his speech therapist, but oh well. His speech is a lot better now, but for him the articulation issues and reading issues are very entwined. So, that is just something about him, but not true for a lot of kids. Anyway though he was learning to tell apart some consonant sounds in speech therapy, I did not address that with him at home. I have not had much luck at all working with him on speech at home so I am not good on that. But b/c that I am big on being very positive and agree about trying not to make him hate reading. For my son that means he needs to have a lot of success and very little experience of not being able to get an answer. For him (this is him, and also b/c he is in public school) he is aware of other people to some extent. Another thing -- for your son not liking to be read to --------- that can be a symptom of him having some language issue, also. My son had this. He was a very picky listener. Anything with word play or very wordy was nothing to him.

[Pen]

One more thing to suggest you look at that could be a help is www.talkingfingers.com . Probably not alone, but as an adjunct. It gives a good bit of reading practice along with learning to type.

[Lecka]

/serial

 

I forgot to mention that I had to give up on All About Spelling pretty early. It was going too fast for him. At the time AAR was not released yet. However -- I got the first two readers, and they are great stories and very high quality, but they were too hard for my son. They went too fast. He needed to go slower. And, it can be hard to make things go slower for me. It is also kind-of depressing to not be able to move on. That is something I really like about Abecedarian. It goes slow without seeming like my son is doing poorly. B/c it just does not feel good to not keep up!

 

So b/c of that feeling, I have a strong preference for a program that is made for a struggling reader and is designed to include more practice and a slower introduction of new material.

 

My son does not just need the technique of good reading instruction, that is what a good reading program has, that is designed to teach in a way that is good. That is a good reading program for a child who does not need extra practice and extra repetition. A program designed for a child who is struggling will be designed as a good program AND build in extra practice and repetition.

 

Some kids do not need the extras, the good techniques are enough. But something to keep in mind if a program not designed for a struggling reader does not work.

 

Programs designed for struggling readers are ones like: Barton, High Noon, Abecedarian. I have been able to see samples or some amount of them. They are all ones I think I could use. Then there are more programs, anything that is considered a well-regarded Orton-Gillingham program -- but they may not be designed to be as easy for a parent to use.

 

Just on principle though I do not like to get attached to a regular program and try to slow it down, b/c it is just depressing. I think if it would be no problem to use other materials or games to keep practicing a topic before moving on, then that would be a reason to use a regular program. But I can do that to a small extent (as I seem to do it anyway), but with a program that is going impossibly fast with an impossibly small amount of practice, it is very disheartening.

[Lecka]

/serial

 

I forgot to mention that I had to give up on All About Spelling pretty early. It was going too fast for him. At the time AAR was not released yet. However -- I got the first two readers, and they are great stories and very high quality, but they were too hard for my son. They went too fast. He needed to go slower. And, it can be hard to make things go slower for me. It is also kind-of depressing to not be able to move on. That is something I really like about Abecedarian. It goes slow without seeming like my son is doing poorly. B/c it just does not feel good to not keep up!

 

So b/c of that feeling, I have a strong preference for a program that is made for a struggling reader and is designed to include more practice and a slower introduction of new material.

 

My son does not just need the technique of good reading instruction, that is what a good reading program has, that is designed to teach in a way that is good. That is a good reading program for a child who does not need extra practice and extra repetition. A program designed for a child who is struggling will be designed as a good program AND build in extra practice and repetition.

 

Some kids do not need the extras, the good techniques are enough. But something to keep in mind if a program not designed for a struggling reader does not work.

 

Programs designed for struggling readers are ones like: Barton, High Noon, Abecedarian. I have been able to see samples or some amount of them. They are all ones I think I could use. Then there are more programs, anything that is considered a well-regarded Orton-Gillingham program -- but they may not be designed to be as easy for a parent to use. I am not home-schooling in general and so I don't feel like I can consider a program that is not considered easy to use.

 

Just on principle though I do not like to get attached to a regular program and try to slow it down, b/c it is just depressing. I think if it would be no problem to use other materials or games to keep practicing a topic before moving on, then that would be a reason to use a regular program. But I can do that to a small extent (as I seem to do it anyway), but with a program that is going impossibly fast with an impossibly small amount of practice, it is very disheartening.

 

Just to mention, also, my son was a youngish child using Abecedarian, and I thought that High Noon looked like it would be more for a slightly older child. That was a main reason I picked Abecedarian. Even for an 8-year-old maybe High Noon would seem to be a better fit, if you were looking apart from Barton. Though there is no reason not to just use Barton -- I think it is the best-regarded!

 

I have a great opinion of Barton, too, but I did want the public school order of reading. Even now I am looking at Barton Level 4 for him though (if I go this route I would e-mail them and make sure it would be appropriate for him).

[Lecka]

Sorry I am having trouble with the new website!

[PeterPan]

Lecka, what you're describing is what I'm finding with AAR pre. I like the concept a lot, especially the innovative use of the puppet. There's so much there that *does* work for a SN dc (language, motivation, games, multiple modalities, social skills). However the actual pace and coverage of the material just cannot work for a child like mine. I didn't realize it till I got into it and started looking at what she does with each lesson. As you say, it's not just about slowing it down. There's no repetition or spiraling. The entire sequence of the skills is wrong. And I think with a regular situation, it wouldn't even get noticed. You get a SN situation, and it's just awful. I've talked with friends who just plowed through anyway, assuming the author had good reasons. Well sorry, the concepts in it are out of order for any logical development of phonemic awareness. And if it's not working in the pre level, I'm doubting the regular will work out better.

 

I hate to say that, because the author was very generous and kind with me and solicited my feedback. I'm just saying, as is, the AAR pre isn't adequate for my SN dc. I had to dissect it completely, rearrange everything, and apply the games to all the concepts, creating more review, more spiraling. There are way too many leaps. It's just woefully inadequate for a struggling student, and if that's the case in pre, I can't recommend the op buy the regular AAR levels. I would get I See Sam or something else instead.

 

There are no guarantees, no matter what curriculum you use I suppose. That's an interesting question Lecka raises about whether I could find something that, out of the box, would be better paced for this stage. I've been calling him K3 this year, as he turned 4 in the fall. I wanted to give him that window of extra time. However in some sense I'm not sure how much it's extra time he needs as extra-careful instruction. It would be kind of frustrating to use that extra gap and realize I should have been teaching more, not less.

 

Anyways, I do like AAR pre quite a bit in general, and I've been reluctant to say anything on the boards. I think we all understand that in this context we're talking about extreme cases, not regular K3-K5 kids. My ds hears no rhyme, struggles with sound differentiation, etc. He has way less skills naturally than what my dd did at the same age, and I thought my dd was hard to teach and needed a lot of work, mercy. So I hope no one from another board comes over and thinks of my AAR pre- comments as a slam. I'm just saying, like Lecka, that once you get in harder situations, some of these, otherwise fine programs, really aren't going to work.

[Χά�ων]

Why in the WORLD are you staying with it if there's no change? You should see changes within a week, at least in the ability to do the tasks, and you should see changes that carry over to real life in a matter of months. If you aren't, either your DOC is no good (this happens) or the doc didn't catch some other issues that hinder the VT (this happens too). Your dc could have retained primitive reflexes or sensory integration problems or other reasons why the VT is not sticking. I would NEVER suggest someone stick blindly with some doc who is not getting results. NO, NO, NO. You're wasting your time and the insurance coverage that could you be getting care that is working. I like VT, but I would figure out why it's not working. Something is fishy about that.

 

 

Because the cost of the others is at minimum 125% of my annual income and do not take any insurance.

[PeterPan]

Because the cost of the others is at minimum 125% of my annual income and do not take any insurance.

 

I'm just saying I would ask questions. You should be seeing changes on some level.

[merry gardens]

...

I've heard of LiPs but we don't have a center in our state, so that is out also unless I could do it at home?

 

I tried the first level of Barton over the summer and we didn't get too far into it. It was too big of a learning curve for me and I just didn't have the time to devote to it to really learn the steps....

I have several comments after reading this thread.

 

 

1-LiPS can be done by a trained speech and language pathologist. The right slp could be better than a LMB center as LiPS was developed by an slp, (Ms. Lindamood) Much of the LiPS earlier material should be somewhat familiar to any slp, except lips uses terms that kids can relate to. Even if the slp doesn't have LiPS training, a good pediatric slp should have the skills to test for and document any phonological awareness problems.

 

2-LiPS can be done at home, but not everyone can do it that way. It takes a set of skills to learn and teach it which not everyone has. If you had trouble with Barton, (which comes with training dvds and scripts) you'd probably have even more trouble with LiPS.

 

3-Speaking of Barton, did you take the Barton tutor screen and give your son the student screen before trying Barton? I really do know that Barton I can be difficult for some children--and the ones that struggle with it the most are the ones who need that type of remediation and maybe even more (like LiPS or perhaps Earobics or FastForWord.) If you still have the first level and if you both passed the screens, you might spend a little more time learning it before you try teaching it. Things you both learn in the first level can be integrated into other programs.

 

4--And lastly, a child can have both vision problems and auditory processing problems at the same time. They might have memory problems on top which adds to reading struggles! I sometimes suspect here that many kids can start learning to read and compensate okay with one of those, but face far more serious struggles when all of the above are problems.

[merry gardens]

duplicate

(well, at least our post counts will all climb until we learn the new system. )

Edited November 24, 2012 by merry gardens

[A home for their hearts]

Lecka, I have Abecedarin A and used it some with him last year but I felt that the pace was too slow. Then I enrolled him in our local k12 charter and tried to use their phonics program with him. The first nine weeks of the k12 phonics program works on phonemic awareness but once we hit the pure phonics part it just didn't seem to spiral enough for him. Now, after what you've said, I totally agree with you about Abecedarin. It's slow for a reason and does a great job and spiralilng. That's the big problem that I have with LOE, there is not spiraling at all. One lesson the words might be cat, map, and sift, and then the next they are dog, pop, cast. Each lesson you learn three new words that don't relate to each other at all and once those words are introduced you don't see them again. Like you said, I think it might be a great program for children who don't struggle but for those who do it just wouldn't work.

 

We did try talking fingers, it ended up moving way to fast for him.

 

As far as Barton goes, I did pass the tutor screening but I can't remember if i have him the student screening. The problem I had with Barton was making sure I was following all the steps. I just didn't feel comfortable teaching it and I think my ds picked up on that.

[merry gardens]

...

As far as Barton goes, I did pass the tutor screening but I can't remember if i have him the student screening. The problem I had with Barton was making sure I was following all the steps. I just didn't feel comfortable teaching it and I think my ds picked up on that.

 

I know what you mean about not feeling comfortable teaching a child who is struggling while you need to learn all new methods. I think that our kids can pick up that we're not comfortable and that makes it even harder to teach them. It's really much harder when we're both struggling at the same time. One thing I did to help get myself comfortable was practice on another child first. Before I tried Barton with my dyslexic son, I did it with his sister, who is not dyslexic. I also used it with two others who needed help with spelling but who didn't have all the challenges of the one for whom I bought the Barton program. I see that you have a 12 yo--you might practice with that child first.

 

Also, if you haven't given your child that screen, check it out. If he can't pass the screen, then the problem wasn't just that you weren't comfortable. I'm plenty comfortable with Barton now, but one of my younger ones still struggled through Barton 1 because she confused several sounds but knew enough to pass the screen. If a child can't pass the screen or only barely passed the screen, Barton 1 will be hard--regardless of the teacher's comfort level with the material.

 

I'll also add that the teaching methods I learned with Barton helped me with teaching other areas besides reading. The methods of correction are gentle and encouraging. I tend to being very wordy, (y'all could probably tell that from my posts!) yet Barton taught me techniques like hand gestures to minimize all the excess talking--which can get in the way of some people's auditory processing. If you still have Barton and a struggling reader, I strongly encourage you to give it another chance!