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OtherJohn

How facebook works with the Well-Trained Mind Community

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"No one is threatening mass exodus. They are saying *They* will not return, they can not control everyone else. But it is also not just 1 person saying that, and there is many already not posting since the change saying that elsewhere. Many of us have already said we feel like we are now cogs in a machine rather than valued members like we used to, I don't think that those that chose to leave really care if over all it is a small amount compared to the over all membership. Out of those 38thousand members, maybe 200 are regular posters, taking out 20 of them will make a difference make no doubt about it, 38thousand is a great number but the vast majority are lurkers or only rare posters" - swellmomma

 

I think we have to be realistic here and gracious. Yes, there would be a lull for a moment, but we would quickly be replaced and a new thriving community would develop. We benefit from Susan's generosity and business vision. I am so impressed with how much they have listened to us over the last 24 hrs.

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Nothing I have seen is Exodus-worthy for me. I think once everyone considers how FB works, how internet sharing works, how to use the new widgets, how to turn off the new widgets...and above all, how to take charge of their own internet safety...I think most people will stick around.

 

There's not another homeschooling community like this on the internet. Not that I could find. There are interesting little classical ed corners and hidy-holes, but nothing with this much traffic or diversity. I'm still very glad to be here.

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You guys do understand that these forums cost us a lot of money, right? And that we pay for them out of PHP? So if we can encourage people to visit PHP-related pages, we will. And that's why you're all here without paying a subscription fee. And why we are able to keep the site ad-free.

 

Perhaps we should brainstorm (except that I have to go to bed now) how we could help PHP stay afloat without involving FB?

 

I'm incredibly grateful for the boards....

 

Donations? suggested donations? if everyone buys x/suggested number of books (I realize this a little too legalistic)? There must be more creative people out there than me about this...

 

I'm sure Susan et al have been trying to figure this out but maybe more heads would be better and if applied to this instead of how to deal with FB, the solution might please most everyone....

 

Joan

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I would like this status if I could! Removing the widget fixes the concern for me!

 

 

Removing the widget also fixes one of my largest concerns, so thank you very much for that.

 

Nothing I have seen is Exodus-worthy for me. I think once everyone considers how FB works, how internet sharing works, how to use the new widgets, how to turn off the new widgets...and above all, how to take charge of their own internet safety...I think most people will stick around.

 

There's not another homeschooling community like this on the internet. Not that I could find. There are interesting little classical ed corners and hidy-holes, but nothing with this much traffic or diversity. I'm still very glad to be here.

 

 

Nothing I have seen is Exodus-worthy for me either. All I really have to do is unlike the pages associated with the board on FB and facebook will no longer track my interest in this board. I enjoy being able to see the updates posted there, but losing those is a minor thing compared to losing the wealth of information contained here.

 

I did not mean for my earlier post to be taken as using "scare language" and if that was what what it was, I apologize for that. I also own and manage several forums, one of which has thousands of members and millions of posts, so I do understand quite a bit about the pressures involved in running a big board. My thoughts about the impact of integrating facebook or other social media sites into forums came from my own experiences in managing my own forums and in watching the choices that other people have made in managing theirs. Every situation is different though, and each community responds to changes and challenges in different ways. I do appreciate deeply all the thought and effort which has gone into upgrading these forums and I am quite sure that they will continue to thrive under the careful and nourishing leadership which is so apparent throughout this community. Thank you so much for everything that you all do for us. wub.gif

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While I do agree that most posters are blowing things out of proportion, I did still have concerns and I'm glad they've been dealt with.

 

When I walk by my window naked, I accept that a random passer-byer or stalker may well see me. I generally don't anticipate hoards of observers snapping pictures, though. :laugh:

I've always referred target-audience people to TWTM, but linking posts would only serve to tempt random Friends to click, read, and potentially post as trolls, and I know how much admins lurve trolls!

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Many of us have already said we feel like we are now cogs in a machine rather than valued members like we used to...

 

We *are* cogs in the PHP marketing machine! But the good news is that we also greatly benefit by being cogs! :D

 

Out of those 38thousand members, maybe 200 are regular posters, taking out 20 of them will make a difference make no doubt about it...

 

Define "regular" please. And, are these "regulars" posting regularly about home education? If not, I doubt PHP would miss them. OtherJohn posted somewhere here that the forums receive MANY (he gave a number) new member registrations EVERY DAY - I don't think the PHP folks are worried. Sure, they'd be smart to listen to (well-reasoned) concerns here, but they are trying to reach homeschoolers who are looking for homeschooling help. And, FB shows that the "likes" to the PHP site actually *increased* over the past week (though the number went down somewhat in the past day or so). Overall, gain for PHP! And gain for us, as we get more people to talk with about *how to educate our kids.*

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I don't know that you can see their overall settings, but you can see who is able to see individual updates. Look at the bottom of an update, next to the date. There will be a little icon (a globe, people or a machine cog). If you hover over that, you can see if the update went to everyon (the globe), friends or friends of friends (the people) or a custom setting (the cog).

 

 

Hey you're brilliant! I didn't realize this at all! I've been totally flabbergasted by people's FB pages because I could never figure out where it was coming from. So coding makes it all make sense. And I guess then a person can decide what they're willing to post where and at least know what circumstances they're replying under on FB.

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taking out 20 of them will make a difference make no doubt about it,

 

Depends on the 20. ;) I've been on here long enough to be able to say honestly that if 20 left, even if they were the top 20 posters, I wouldn't get overly torn up over it and it would not have the impact I think you are imagining. A select few do not have a monopoly on all the wisdom and experience...this forum works because of the voices of many.

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Depends on the 20. ;) I've been on here long enough to be able to say honestly that if 20 left, even if they were the top 20 posters, I wouldn't get overly torn up over it and it would not have the impact I think you are imagining. A select few do not have a monopoly on all the wisdom and experience...this forum works because of the voices of many.

 

LOL! I agree - it depends on the 20. I want to post an update to my previous thoughts since using the boards today. My first thought when seeing it linked with FB was "OMG! I know too many crazy homeschoolers. I don't want to see them here." I've reviewed my security settings on FB and it's all good. But I still have some qualms about this going the way of Vegsource due to being more visible (I know that reference will date me :) ). I go in posting spurts now that the boys are older and can get by without the boards, but I don't really want to. This has been my "community" since 1999. And I really love the new forum style!

 

I hope that eventually the Members List will get cleaned out and purged of all those who have joined over the years who have never contributed or even shown activity since joining. That would certainly lower the member count, but it would more accurately reflect the popularity of the site. TWTM is the reference I give to every new homeschooler who asks for help. It's a wonderful resource as are the forums.

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All of your FB drama makes my head spin. :willy_nilly: I don't mean this to be snarky at.all.....because you are a swell momma ;) .....but maybe you should get off FB. Sounds like anything you say there (or possibly here) can and will be used against you by your family. If it were me...it wouldn't be worth it.

 

I agree with this. Anybody with half a brain can go over to the the PHP facebook page right now and find out your real name because you've made it clear who you are over here, in two separate posts no less....unless of coarse there is another person running around using the username swellmomma. So much for protecting your identity.

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Well, we can certainly give it a try! (Moving the widget, that is. Jury's still way out on the "like on FB" feature.) I asked John to remove the widget and re-install the status comments (which I think are fun). Let's see if the confusion persists...

Thanks for that. I love the status updates.

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Depends on the 20. ;) I've been on here long enough to be able to say honestly that if 20 left, even if they were the top 20 posters, I wouldn't get overly torn up over it and it would not have the impact I think you are imagining. A select few do not have a monopoly on all the wisdom and experience...this forum works because of the voices of many.

 

Even as one of those in the top 20 in post count, I agree. 20 people do not make this board. Post count is irrelevant to contribution to this board. Some of the people I have the most respect for have very low post counts. I working on my comfort level with the privacy issues. My issue is with facebook and not PHP. In the end, this board is the property of PHP and it is their vision that will guide this forum. Discussion of a mass exodus or nefarious reasons for changing the board is ridiculous. There is no us vs. them. We are members on a board owned by PHP. There are plenty of "old time regulars" that no longer post here, I miss their presence, but that was their choice to leave.

 

I love technology and I'm trying to understand how all the integration works and what level I am comfortable with it. I find value in this board and the people in it. But we need to remember not to get all up in arms about leaving when the rollout hasn't even been completed. How I choose to deal with the privacy issues will be my deal, my choice, not because of a rioting because we asked for clarification and information, which SWB and John have been great about answering real questions.

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Just to throw in my two cents, I would personally welcome a massive influx of people and the expansion of our little community. *gasp* I know, the horror. But the way I look at it, the more the classical homeschooling community grows, the more classical hsers there will be (duh). The more of us out there, the more the curriculum industry will expand. The more that expands, the easier it will be for me to find good classical and secular hsing materials. The way things are right now, much of the industry mostly caters to a small, extremely religious group of people. I would actually really like to see thousands of people streaming in here from FB, because it might mean that I have a much easier time finding, say, science materials that fit with our worldview. Or whatever.

 

But my point is that, in the long run, I do think the benefits of expansion outweigh any perceived issues with privacy.

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I just went to FB and unliked PHP and SWB (sorry, sniff !), and turned off "platform" in FB in privacy settings, apps. I did not need it for anything else - I don't play games or use any apps at FB so I don't think I'll miss it. FB says that if platform is off, "I cannot use Facebook integrations on 3rd party apps or websites". I hope that means my activity here will not be showing up on my FB timeline.

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I just went to FB and unliked PHP and SWB (sorry, sniff !), and turned off "platform" in FB in privacy settings, apps. I did not need it for anything else - I don't play games or use any apps at FB so I don't think I'll miss it. FB says that if platform is off, "I cannot use Facebook integrations on 3rd party apps or websites". I hope that means my activity here will not be showing up on my FB timeline.

 

It wouldn't show up anyway unless you personally linked it by clicking on the Facebook Like button that is ... no longer on the bottom of this page because SWB\PHP were gracious enough to remove it. Just to clarify - the "Like this" button on the side of the individual posts have nothing to do with FB. There is no way for this thread, for example, to show up on your FB timeline now unless you copy and paste a link directly onto your timeline...it can't get there by accident...never could.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99% positive that I'm correct.

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PEOPLE. Please. The "like this" button is a forum tool. The status updates were forum tools. Our forum tools have nothing to do with Facebook. We don't want to have to disable them, like John already had to do with the status update, to calm things down.

 

All we had was a button where you could share a thread on Facebook. That was it. Now it's gone.

 

Maybe we should rename the 'like this' button so there is no confusion. How about 'Like this (in no way affiliated with fb!' Or 'Like this! On the WTM boards only!' Or 'Like this! We promise it doesn't leave these boards!'

 

Kidding! (Insert tongue smile, can't find emoticons yet).

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I understand that not everyone has an issue with it. Some people rarely post anything in either place so no big deal but for some of us the connection is a big deal. Yes someone could copy and paste onto their fb in the past, but did they bother? Unless it was in the private group I can't think of a single time that happened. With no share button there it was like it didn't occur to people to do that. What happened on the hive stayed on the hive. With a share button it opens that up in a way that most would not have considered kwim.

 

One of the mods/admins said that they get 80-100 new registrants here daily, and many come from fb. So people are definitely sharing links, they could be members or guests or people who stumbled across a thread through google and shared the link.

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(Insert tongue smile, can't find emoticons yet).

 

When you are typing look up into your toolbar and you will see a smiley right next to font and size options. Click on the smiley and it will bring up a window under the box you are typing in...you can scroll to the right to see more.

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Just to throw in my two cents, I would personally welcome a massive influx of people and the expansion of our little community. *gasp* I know, the horror. But the way I look at it, the more the classical homeschooling community grows, the more classical hsers there will be (duh). The more of us out there, the more the curriculum industry will expand. The more that expands, the easier it will be for me to find good classical and secular hsing materials. The way things are right now, much of the industry mostly caters to a small, extremely religious group of people. I would actually really like to see thousands of people streaming in here from FB, because it might mean that I have a much easier time finding, say, science materials that fit with our worldview. Or whatever.

 

But my point is that, in the long run, I do think the benefits of expansion outweigh any perceived issues with privacy.

 

Mergath, you get a double plus like from me.

 

I'm grateful this community is so diverse and so respectful.

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My original concern was that someone said they had clicked on a member here and it went to their fb profile. I thought they meant they had clicked on the member's profile and it was linked to their fb account. Yikes! I'm sure many would be disconcerted by that and leave, including me. Now I realise they meant they had clicked on that php badge on the main page and gone to someone's fb profile. Those fb fans may or may not be members here. If they are members here, and have a similar user name or have used the same profile pic in both places then that is something they have chosen and is not php's problem. That fb badge on the main page is no different from the thousands of other websites that display a fb badge. Many hs blogs even display one.

 

I so appreciate these forums!

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I just wanted to revisit the topic of board expansion. :001_smile:

 

The boards aren't prominently featured on the main WTM page and don't seem to be mentioned on the main PHP page or on the official Facebook page "about" section. There appears to be no official WTM Facebook page at all. With everything Google knows about me (and it's a *lot*... I pretty much have chosen to give them carte blanche with my personal data :tongue_smilie:), the query "homeschool discussion board" doesn't even place WTM on the first page. iVillage and BabyCenter place higher! A search for "homeschool board" doesn't fare any better. "Homeschooling" appears in a single variation on the WTM forum main page, as "home schooler," in the description section of the K8 boards. I think/hope there's some uncontroversial steps that can be taken to better publicize the boards and raise search engine standings.

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When you are typing look up into your toolbar and you will see a smiley right next to font and size options. Click on the smiley and it will bring up a window under the box you are typing in...you can scroll to the right to see more.

 

I don't see the smiley, nor do I see the font size and other options. Or the little triangle that someone said would bring those options down. Might be an ipad thing, I'll try my pc later.

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I don't see the smiley, nor do I see the font size and other options. Or the little triangle that someone said would bring those options down. Might be an ipad thing, I'll try my pc later.

 

Yep, it was an iPad thing. Now I have the toolbar. I am sure it will be fixed eventually.

 

:hurray: :cheers2: :driving: :thumbup: :thumbup1: :tongue_smilie: :biggrinjester: :001_wub:

:party:

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I really don't think you have your pulse on this community's feelings based on this post. There will be no valuable content to search if people leave or refrain from posting. People coming in due to targeted Google searches of content is very different than the drama social media has the potential to unleash.

 

Bill

And even more to the point, can *Facebook* harvest the info from our threads that we've provided and use it for their massive data-logging and connection-making? I mean we all know how savvy the stupid FB thing is. When I joined, it figured out 100 people in my area I knew, and all I had done was put in my name for pity's sake. So when you like and link a thread from here through FB, is it then harvesting terms so you end up with ads that fit what you were writing about, etc.? That's just disgusting to me.

I can see that the FB connection is a hot topic, and we'll remain responsive to the community--of course. If the majority of our regular users don't want a FB link, we'll rethink it.

 

.....

 

FB or not FB, posting information about your mental health, your spouse's shortcomings, your hatred of your boss, or how you'd like to kick your teenager out of the house is a REALLY BAD IDEA. It's just not safe.

 

SWB

Strangely I've quickly moved from feeling like a part of a community to simply a piece of a marketing scheme. I'm not going to jump overboard just yet, but at this point in my life, I really don't NEED a lot from the community - all are in college albeit 2 concurrently. So jumping ship won't be a big deal. I was hoping to be able to help others as they are walking this path as others helped me, but I'm afraid that the philosophy or motivation of the "board change" may not fit my lifestyle any longer.

 

I see this is ongoing, and I haven't read every single post. But I am squarely with the group that does not want FB links.

 

One of my concerns is that people who don't manage their privacy links well can be quoting WTM more easily -- no tedious copy & paste. Isn't that true? (Personally, I am not on FB,)

 

Another concern is that even cautious people post some things that they don't expect to have widely publicized, as they legitimately ask for advice about children with disabilities, problems with a teacher or school district, etc. If I were posting on an autism board or a cancer survivors board, I would be disturbed at efforts to share the info. Public and publicized are not the same.

 

A third concern is data mining in general.

 

If there are plans to sell data about posters, I would want an opt-out option, even if it is a paid option.

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Depends on the 20. ;) I've been on here long enough to be able to say honestly that if 20 left, even if they were the top 20 posters, I wouldn't get overly torn up over it and it would not have the impact I think you are imagining. A select few do not have a monopoly on all the wisdom and experience...this forum works because of the voices of many.

 

I also remember all the groaning after the last format change. People complained, people threatened to leave...and I am sure some did. However, the majority of people got used to the changes, or made the changes work for them. This is no different. Are there things I don't *love* about this update...yes, but I also know that in a month or two I won't remember what all the fuss is about!

 

As for the for the boards not being as active as they normally are: PHP just made a huge upgrade which took a couple of days to get up and running, and it is still a little buggy...on top of that, it is the week of a major holiday. I would say people are a little busy right now. I predict that next week, we will be back to normal!

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It is a terrible idea IMO. I don't think people most posters want this forum to "grow" or for the content to be publicized through social media. I think you have misjudged (rather severely) how much this forum is a refuge for many people and that the community will likely shrink if people feel their posts will become "hyper-public" via links to social media.

 

I think this function should be disabled until the community weighs in.

 

Bill

 

I agree with Bill (and that doesn't happen every day!). This is a bad idea.

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A third concern is data mining in general.

 

If there are plans to sell data about posters, I would want an opt-out option, even if it is a paid option.

 

Lord, yes. I object vehemently to sharing our data in any way. Please don't do that.

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I really don't think you have your pulse on this community's feelings based on this post.

 

I'm sure SWB gave him the lowdown on the pulse here before he started the job, lol!

 

There will be no valuable content to search if people leave or refrain from posting.

 

No valuable content?? How about the past several years' worth of valuable content?

 

People are going to choose to adjust their security online, or they are going to leave. The ones who stay will give plenty of valuable content to search here in the years to come.

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If there are plans to sell data about posters, I would want an opt-out option, even if it is a paid option.

 

Are you saying that you think SWB would sell data about us? Ugh, I hope she doesn't read this...if I were her this would feel like a punch in the stomach. If she wanted to make money off of this forum she could just start charging a membership fee instead of providing it free.

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Are you saying that you think SWB would sell data about us? Ugh, I hope she doesn't read this...if I were her this would feel like a punch in the stomach. If she wanted to make money off of this forum she could just start charging a membership fee instead of providing it free.

 

Hear, hear!

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Are you saying that you think SWB would sell data about us? Ugh, I hope she doesn't read this...if I were her this would feel like a punch in the stomach. If she wanted to make money off of this forum she could just start charging a membership fee instead of providing it free.

 

EXACTLY!!!

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What? What what what what what what what???

 

We would never sell ANYTHING. Those of you who've been here for years know this, I hope.

 

I have had numerous offers from other companies to buy our email list, our customer list, or the emails of forum members. I would NEVER do that.

 

Good heavens. If I just wanted to make money off the forums, I'd sell ads. I don't do that either.

 

ENOUGH with the drama. Enough with the speculations about things that have not been proposed, suggested, floated, or even considered.

 

There was a link to FB. You guys didn't want it. It's gone.

 

Thread closed now. Be finished.

 

SWB

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