October ACT scores are up on-line

[Hoggirl]

At least some are, ds's among them.

 

We are finished with that one! :D

[creekland]

Congratulations! ;)

 

My junior got a 26, which, for those curious about the PLAN predictions was at the lower end of his prediction.

 

Hopefully, this eye opener will be an inspiration for him to actually study for the spring tests as our finances will only allow for our state schools or cc with that score. It was far, far easier looking at colleges (financially) when these early tests were in the 30+ range.

 

If only they had college entrance tests that were heavy on Bio... (sigh).

 

While disappointed in his score, I do want to mention I love this guy equally as much as his brothers... test scores don't change that. They only change his eventual path in life (for college). ;)

 

And maybe, just maybe, he'll be inspired to study since he wants a private school. If HE gets the inspiration to do something, it happens (and he's capable of a 30). No matter what I try, it won't matter.

 

FWIW, at his ps, this score is high. Therein lies our problem... He does well in school and THINKS that automatically means he'll do well in the nation not realizing that his school is not providing him a good foundation. Sure, he'll agree with me about that in theory, but in reality, he puts forth little effort to make up for it.

[FaithManor]

Congratulations! ;)

 

My junior got a 26, which, for those curious about the PLAN predictions was at the lower end of his prediction.

 

Hopefully, this eye opener will be an inspiration for him to actually study for the spring tests as our finances will only allow for our state schools or cc with that score. It was far, far easier looking at colleges (financially) when these early tests were in the 30+ range.

 

If only they had college entrance tests that were heavy on Bio... (sigh).

 

While disappointed in his score, I do want to mention I love this guy equally as much as his brothers... test scores don't change that. They only change his eventual path in life (for college). ;)

 

And maybe, just maybe, he'll be inspired to study since he wants a private school. If HE gets the inspiration to do something, it happens (and he's capable of a 30). No matter what I try, it won't matter.

 

FWIW, at his ps, this score is high. Therein lies our problem... He does well in school and THINKS that automatically means he'll do well in the nation not realizing that his school is not providing him a good foundation. Sure, he'll agree with me about that in theory, but in reality, he puts forth little effort to make up for it.

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I understand completely. I am having a very hard time convincing some local high schoolers from our 4-H STEM club (all of whom want to go on to professions such as aeronautical engineering, biological research, environmental science, veterinary science, and chemistry) that just because they got a 24-26 and their school average is a whomping 20.2 AND this puts them in the top 5% (yes, you read that right) of their class, they will not be completing these majors at their schools of choice. Every single one of them wants to go to MSU or U of M. These scores makes U of M a total reach school - 27 is generally the lowest they accept into anything science related - and while they'd gain admittance to MSU it would be without any merit money and they still would not be admitted to their majors where for biology and environmental science they need a 27 on the math portion and for chem and all things engineering will need MUCH more than that in the math. I've tried to convince them to study to raise those composites to a 28 or more to increase their chances, but they look at me as though I've lost my mind because their school guidance counselor tells them they are the best and brightest. I'd like to smack that man. The number of kids he's set up for profound disappointment over the years is staggering.

 

Of course, private schools aren't even an option given the price tag and the fact that scholarships in the sciences just do not happen for scores in that range. A few may have some other accomplishments that will help. Some of the kids on the TARC team that aren't taking me seriously, may still do okay for merit money IF the team has a top five finish at Nationals before graduation and IF they succesfully complete a Student Launch Initiative engineering project with NASA before college APs are on the line.

 

Sigh....

 

Creeland, I do get it. I've got one boy here that hasn't applied himself where he should and may end up with a rude awakening if he doesn't buckle down and work on that math section more. We'll see what the spring scores hold for him.

 

Faith

[ThisIsTheDay]

...

[Hoggirl]

:iagree:

 

That's why I don't publicly post any scores. Ds was pleased, dh and I are pleased, and we are done. 'nuf said.

 

I think hanging out here, or especially hanging out on College Confidential can be extremely discouraging to people. I am glad you pointed out that percentile ranking. However, some folks DO need a dose of reality when it comes to what is required to gain acceptance into their "dream school" and/or field of choice.

[creekland]

Because I know how easy it is to compare and get discouraged, I want to point out for other readers of this thread that a 26 is 83rd percentile nationally (at least it was for the Sept. test).

 

I know that the earlier posters are not saying a 26 is terrible; rather, they are saying, for their child, and for the goals their child has set, it is not enough to get them where they easily expect to be.

 

Like everything else on these boards, for some, a 26 will be a wonderful score, for some it will be solid, and for some, it will be a disappointment. Don't get sucked into comparing your kids with others, for any reason; focus on how to help your child live up to their own full potential.

 

And I really hope this comes across in the spirit as intended!:001_smile:

 

:iagree:

 

It is good to put some background with this. This son was homeschooled from 5th to 9th grades and tested at the 99th percentile in 8th grade. In high school he currently has a 4.3 GPA, however, ever since starting his national percentile has been sliding. His scores are mismatched (GPA to test scores). If it were solely him, it wouldn't mean much other than he might not be a good test taker (not true based on earlier tests). However, this happens to the majority of our school's top kids... giving me the firm belief the issue is with our school (and I work there, so I see what is taught - or not - in this case). Homeschooling is not an option for this son as he doesn't want it. Therefore, my lament is more about our being in this school district than anything ACT aside from his score.

 

This son is as capable as my other two (30+ scorers - both homeschooled through high school), but he won't live up to his potential - at least - not yet. And that... will make the difference in where he can go to college because most terrific financial aid is based upon scores.

 

It might not be fair, but it is what it is. A 26 will get him in to many places (not top schools, but he's ok with that), but it won't help us pay for them.

[creekland]

 

However, some folks DO need a dose of reality when it comes to what is required to gain acceptance into their "dream school" and/or field of choice.

 

And I see this ^ too much, which is why I feel it is important for us to share things like scores on a board where many may wonder what is good or not for various levels of schools (or scholarships).

 

We have many students at our school who think they are competitive, then end up with a rude awakening. They ought to have their eyes opened by college counselors. When homeschooling WE are the college counselors... and how would we know if no one ever shared specifics?

 

One does not need a 30+ everywhere, but it is our goal for good merit aid.

[Hoggirl]

And I see this ^ too much, which is why I feel it is important for us to share things like scores on a board where many may wonder what is good or not for various levels of schools (or scholarships).

 

We have many students at our school who think they are competitive, then end up with a rude awakening. They ought to have their eyes opened by college counselors. When homeschooling WE are the college counselors... and how would we know if no one ever shared specifics?

 

One does not need a 30+ everywhere, but it is our goal for good merit aid.

 

An excellent point. But, I don't feel like ds's scores are relevant to the discussion here since we no longer homeschool. I could be wrong.

 

I suppose I would put them on CC. I think I put his score from his freshman year out there, but you will not see me posting them on facebook - that was more along the lines of what I meant by posting them publicly. I posted a pic of ds tossing his ACT prep books into the recycle bin on fb this morning, stating we didn't them anymore. One of his classmate's moms posted that he must have gotten a perfect score!! :tongue_smilie: Uh, no. She then proceeded to post her ds's score (good, but not in the same range as ds's). She's clearly fishing, but they aren't my scores to share. ;) If my ds wants to tell her ds, that's up to him. But, to me posting a kid's test scores on fb is akin to posting how much money one makes. At least in THAT setting. I do see what you mean, especially with regard to homeschoolers.

[ThisIsTheDay]

...

[FaithManor]

And yes, I do want to add that the 26 does mean only 17-18% of testers scored better. No, it's not a bad score. It's just that merit aid money is tight now and some kids really need to understand how hard they have to compete if they need that money to help them pay for college.

 

The other issue is that with some majors, there are additional requirements. So, while a 26 may get them into a lot of schools, it won't get them into the engineering department of the good ones, or the aerospace and tech, or pre-vet, etc. It's all about the end goal and that's my rant. We've got kids on in our 4-H club who want to major in some stout departments at some competitive schools and the school guidance counselor makes them think the world is their oyster when in fact, it is not unless they step up their efforts a couple of notches!

 

I'm not disparaging a 26...not one little bit. Just that some paths call for more and the counselors need to be honest about this. Unfortunately, in my area, they are either dishonest or clueless. This is what Creekland and I lament on a fairly regular basis.

 

We all have to keep it in perspective. Test scores are just that....test scores, and not a final referendum on our kids talents and abilities. However, they are a tool we have to utilize for college bound kids in order to help them see what must be done to make their plans come to fruition and for those of us who make just enough money that our kids won't get a dime of financial aid, and not enough to write checks of startling amounts for college (and especially when our 529 plans have tanked into the abyss so savings that we'd have for MANY years for their educations are now worth less than we invested), the merit money gamble is the game we play in order to keep those student loans low and reasonable.

 

That's the message I'm trying to get through to my "not quite serious enough about it" child.

 

Faith

[creekland]

An excellent point. But, I don't feel like ds's scores are relevant to the discussion here since we no longer homeschool. I could be wrong.

 

I suppose I would put them on CC. I think I put his score from his freshman year out there, but you will not see me posting them on facebook - that was more along the lines of what I meant by posting them publicly. I posted a pic of ds tossing his ACT prep books into the recycle bin on fb this morning, stating we didn't them anymore. One of his classmate's moms posted that he must have gotten a perfect score!! :tongue_smilie: Uh, no. She then proceeded to post her ds's score (good, but not in the same range as ds's). She's clearly fishing, but they aren't my scores to share. ;) If my ds wants to tell her ds, that's up to him. But, to me posting a kid's test scores on fb is akin to posting how much money one makes. At least in THAT setting. I do see what you mean, especially with regard to homeschoolers.

 

For people who know us personally, I don't share scores except in rare cases. ;)

 

No one here knows my son and there's only one WTM parent I've met IRL (her son goes to the same college as my middle son).

 

I see this board as a place we can both vent and share successes without it affecting our real lives. In the process we glean info from others that can help us tremendously - ignoring what we don't need.

[creekland]

I don't disagree with the sharing of scores. In fact, for me, this is one of the few places I would feel more comfortable sharing. But I know what it's like to doubt myself after reading of other kids' scores.

 

Sometimes doubt is good though, especially if it leads to action that can change things for the better. Those changes can be shooting for a higher score by practice or supplementing knowledge, checking to see if the SAT is a better fit, or realizing that lower level schools ARE a better fit. Continuing on shooting for the stars without some reality is far worse.

 

And, ooh, College Board can be shocking. I do worry about even bright kids that go there and see some of the scores these other kids (purportedly!) have. But it's a great resource if one can keep it in perspective.

 

Uh, yeah, DON'T compare scores or ability there... unless, perhaps, one is bound and determined to go Ivy or equivalent. It is a nice resource for higher level schools - not so great for lower level schools IME.

 

And yes, I do want to add that the 26 does mean only 17-18% of testers scored better. No, it's not a bad score. It's just that merit aid money is tight now and some kids really need to understand how hard they have to compete if they need that money to help them pay for college.

 

The other issue is that with some majors, there are additional requirements. So, while a 26 may get them into a lot of schools, it won't get them into the engineering department of the good ones, or the aerospace and tech, or pre-vet, etc. It's all about the end goal and that's my rant. We've got kids on in our 4-H club who want to major in some stout departments at some competitive schools and the school guidance counselor makes them think the world is their oyster when in fact, it is not unless they step up their efforts a couple of notches!

 

I'm not disparaging a 26...not one little bit. Just that some paths call for more and the counselors need to be honest about this. Unfortunately, in my area, they are either dishonest or clueless. This is what Creekland and I lament on a fairly regular basis.

 

We all have to keep it in perspective. Test scores are just that....test scores, and not a final referendum on our kids talents and abilities. However, they are a tool we have to utilize for college bound kids in order to help them see what must be done to make their plans come to fruition and for those of us who make just enough money that our kids won't get a dime of financial aid, and not enough to write checks of startling amounts for college (and especially when our 529 plans have tanked into the abyss so savings that we'd have for MANY years for their educations are now worth less than we invested), the merit money gamble is the game we play in order to keep those student loans low and reasonable.

 

That's the message I'm trying to get through to my "not quite serious enough about it" child.

 

Faith

 

:iagree: Nicely stated!

 

In NO WAY does an academic score or ability reflect upon the value of the student behind the score. There are different niches and paths for all - everyone has a valued spot on this planet (some terrorist types excepted IMO).

 

The scores do, however, mean a lot, especially financially, for certain paths. They'll be meaningless afterward.

[Barbara H]

:grouphug::grouphug: I understand completely. I am having a very hard time convincing some local high schoolers from our 4-H STEM club (all of whom want to go on to professions such as aeronautical engineering, biological research, environmental science, veterinary science, and chemistry) that just because they got a 24-26 and their school average is a whomping 20.2 AND this puts them in the top 5% (yes, you read that right) of their class, they will not be completing these majors at their schools of choice. Every single one of them wants to go to MSU or U of M. These scores makes U of M a total reach school - 27 is generally the lowest they accept into anything science related - and while they'd gain admittance to MSU it would be without any merit money and they still would not be admitted to their majors where for biology and environmental science they need a 27 on the math portion and for chem and all things engineering will need MUCH more than that in the math. I've tried to convince them to study to raise those composites to a 28 or more to increase their chances, but they look at me as though I've lost my mind because their school guidance counselor tells them they are the best and brightest. I'd like to smack that man. The number of kids he's set up for profound disappointment over the years is staggering.

 

I can see why you want to smack him! It is good you are there to give the kids encouragement and information.

 

I wonder if someone could sit down with the counselor and show him the statistics on accepted students. 28 is the 25th percentile at U of M now - so at least three of four students have a 28 or higher. Out of state tuition is $39,000 and in state is $13,000. There is a strong incentive to take out of state students.The lower scoring part of the accepted students are most likely not going to be in state students unless they are bringing something extra.

[Barbara H]

She's clearly fishing, but they aren't my scores to share. ;) If my ds wants to tell her ds, that's up to him. But, to me posting a kid's test scores on fb is akin to posting how much money one makes. s.

 

Good for you. I'm amazed by how a lot of people don't even fish - they just flat out ask, even though the majority of people don't even know what the scores mean!

[creekland]

28 is the 25th percentile at U of M now - so at least three of four students have a 28 or higher. Out of state tuition is $39,000 and in state is $13,000. There is a strong incentive to take out of state students.The lower scoring part of the accepted students are most likely not going to be in state students unless they are bringing something extra.

 

Assuming U of M admits students by major (or to schools like Engineering), it's likely that very, very, few with a score of 28 (lowest quarter) will make it into the most demanding math dependent majors even if they are from out of state. There are majors that don't correlate well with scores. Lower percentile students are often in those (or have other hooks).

 

The higher level schools can be picky - and usually are.

[FaithManor]

Oh, yes, I know that a 28 isn't going to cut it for U of M with math oriented anything. However, for many of them, upping their score 2 pts. is probably the best they can do with the time they have left. While, they won't be getting into engineering at MSU or U of M, they can still get into environmental science, ecology, botany, etc. and for some of them that think they want to go into chemistry or engineering, I've seen the projects they have produced for my earth science and ecology department of 4-H and frankly, these science majors would be good fits for them. Very, very good fits and I do think they'd be happy.

 

 

Of course, our local school guidance counselor told a kid last week that a 24 in the math section was good enough for him to go to MSU and major in chemistry! What a bold lie! I was furious. This kid can't even go to the well-known state party school with the unbelievably crappy reputation four counties over and get into the two year chem lab assistant/tech program. MSU???? Chemistry major???? Yeah, let's just set ths kid up for defeat. He won't survive a day in Calc 1! But, the poor student honestly thinks he doesn't need to study and retest or bring up his C- in trig/pre-calc.

 

Sigh....

 

Faith

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

We have many students at our school who think they are competitive, then end up with a rude awakening. They ought to have their eyes opened by college counselors. When homeschooling WE are the college counselors... and how would we know if no one ever shared specifics?

 

.

 

:iagree:

 

And that... will make the difference in where he can go to college because most terrific financial aid is based upon scores.

 

It might not be fair, but it is what it is. A 26 will get him in to many places (not top schools, but he's ok with that), but it won't help us pay for them.

 

Wearing my USNA info hat, I often talk to students about test scores. There are often students who are intersted and might even be good naval officers, but who don't bring the scores to make themselves competitive candidates.

 

USNA doesn't publish an average score, but they do give a range for the middle 50%. (I tried to convert this into an ACT score, but couldn't find the right tables.) This means that only 25% of those accepted were below the low score and 25% of those accepted were above the high score.

 

Verbal 25% 75%

SAT 560 670

 

Verbal 25% 75%

SAT 600 700

 

When I'm counseling a student, I point out that if their scores are on the low end, that means that 75% of sucessful candidates were above their score.

 

That doesn't mean that the kids with lower scores are bad kids. I've had some wonderful interviews with kids who just didn't have the academic background (either in coursework or scores) to demonstrate that they were a good risk for the school. It does put me in the position of having to tell a lot of kids with scores in the 400s and 500s that this school is probably not a good fit for them. I often wonder why no one has ever pointed out their stats relative to the published range before. It just seems that every cycle I get a couple kids who are really gung ho and don't even realize how much they are not competitive.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Oh, yes, I know that a 28 isn't going to cut it for U of M with math oriented anything. However, for many of them, upping their score 2 pts. is probably the best they can do with the time they have left. While, they won't be getting into engineering at MSU or U of M, they can still get into environmental science, ecology, botany, etc. and for some of them that think they want to go into chemistry or engineering, I've seen the projects they have produced for my earth science and ecology department of 4-H and frankly, these science majors would be good fits for them. Very, very good fits and I do think they'd be happy.

 

 

Of course, our local school guidance counselor told a kid last week that a 24 in the math section was good enough for him to go to MSU and major in chemistry! What a bold lie! I was furious. This kid can't even go to the well-known state party school with the unbelievably crappy reputation four counties over and get into the two year chem lab assistant/tech program. MSU???? Chemistry major???? Yeah, let's just set ths kid up for defeat. He won't survive a day in Calc 1! But, the poor student honestly thinks he doesn't need to study and retest or bring up his C- in trig/pre-calc.

Sigh....

 

Faith

 

Does your school not have a cadre of angry parents yet? People who feel that the opportunities for their kids were squandered and that it was abetted by the guidance office?

 

I ask because the school where we lived last had a horrid guidance office, but I heard about it all the time from the parents. And I remember one day that the new high school principal was at a scout event and one of the parents went over to give him her opinion of the week her dd had spent watching movies in class. (Maybe it's just that these were really not restrained parents.)

[FaithManor]

Does your school not have a cadre of angry parents yet? People who feel that the opportunities for their kids were squandered and that it was abetted by the guidance office?

 

 

 

OH DON'T I WISH! Sigh....not. I live in an area in which this generation's parents by in large worked in manufacturing related to the automotive industry in some way or another, many have lost their jobs and some have experienced long term unemployment so you'd think they'd be giving some serious thought to the employment world their kids are about to enter. NOPE! Most did not go on for any additional training beyond high school and they figure if whatever the school told them was good enough and "look how I turned out" then it's good enough for their kids. They have their collective heads in the sand about what jobs will be available to their kids in the future. You should hear them talk at school board meetings, "OH, our jobs are comin' back. Obama is going to repeal NAFTA any day now. Manufacturing just has to come back."

 

Meanwhile, even within the realm of manufacturing, jobs have become increasingly more complicated and require more technical skill all the while their kids area not learning to read, write, and do math. The most recent survey of high grads from 2008-2010 indicates that only a small percentage went on to vo-tech or college, and only a slightly larger percentage found full-time employment. Some eventually admitted defeat and joined the military only to discover that they couldn't get any of the really good enlistment plans because they scored so poorly. The report indicates that 49% are living with mom and dad and have no job.

 

I go to school board meetings and am considered "the loon" (homeschooler who cares about what happens in the community schools) and as for the superintendent, "There aren't any really bright kids in this district any way." (direct quote from a 2011 board meeting)

 

I encounter a lot of apathy within my area. The boy next door, 9 years old, is failing out of school. Failing miserably. He was tested and they found no learning disabilities. But, when I offered to have him here after school for tutoring FOR FREE, his mother's response was that it wasn't fair for him to give up his play time. When I asked her what his future would be if he didn't learn to read, write, or do some math, "Not my problem. He'll be 18 and then it will be his problem." That is the attitude of a LOT of parents around here. It's the school's problem, or the kid's problem, or the government's problem, but it's.not.my.problem. I'm not certain when the disconnect between parenting and education occured around here, but the gaping chasm there is startling at times! (Last year, less than 15% of parents in this district attended parent teacher conferences.)

 

I did not do well during my one semester stint as a guidance counselor for a local private school. Even the mere suggestion that students might want to avail themselves of those free "question of the day" problems or practice exams online, much less buying a study prep book, was met with disdain and near anger. The students were just certain they could wait until their senior year, take it once, and get a big score with merit money and their parents really did.not.care. so long as they didn't have to pay for the test more than once.

 

I'm still fighting for my 4-H kids. The high schoolers in our STEM club are like our second family and so I haven't given up yet but I can tell you that at times it feels like I'm trying to swim up Niagra Falls!

 

Faith

[creekland]

Does your school not have a cadre of angry parents yet? People who feel that the opportunities for their kids were squandered and that it was abetted by the guidance office?

 

I ask because the school where we lived last had a horrid guidance office, but I heard about it all the time from the parents. And I remember one day that the new high school principal was at a scout event and one of the parents went over to give him her opinion of the week her dd had spent watching movies in class. (Maybe it's just that these were really not restrained parents.)

 

It's a whole system that leads to these things, not just one or two people. Usually, teachers have grown up in the area, so don't know that schools can be any different. Ditto that for admin. Ditto that for parents. Instead, they say we don't have high caliber kids here or they point to the couple that do well and say, "see, it can happen," but fail to mention (or perhaps realize) how much these students do outside of school - learning and prepping on their own vs getting the foundation in school. One of our NMF told me she practically had to teach herself ALL the math on the SAT II.

 

The few of us who know life can be different feel we're on a whole different plane academically. Some parents do get angry, but they are too few to matter. Trying to mention anything to the masses is like speaking to a brick wall. So, our choices are to move (can't do that with a well-established business - plus, we like it here otherwise), homeschool (worked for my older two and set a decent earlier foundation for youngest), or do a ton outside of school.

 

The good thing is that NCLB, while it has flaws, is working to get our school to step up the education that no one here believes can be done (remember, we don't have that caliber of kid - supposedly). There have been positive steps lately (dropping movie week in favor of having kids read). It will take a LONG time and might never reach anything terrific (plus there are some flaws with NCLB), but overall, things are a little better now than they were 5 years ago. The masses change slowly.

 

It's not all the fault of the guidance dept. It's a massive system.

[Hoggirl]

Wow. Ds's charter school has an amazing guidance counselor. She is extremely knowledgeable and realistic about schools while allowing students to shoot for their dream schools as well. I have had her call me at home during a school day all excited saying, "I've found a great school for your ds!" And he is only a junior this year. She works hard to get a variety of colleges to come to the school to recruit. It's hard because ds's school, though recognized by the state and various other organizations to be academically outstanding, is small. Parents are well-advised because she is well-informed. I definitely need to put her on my list of things to be thankful for this Thanksgiving.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It's a whole system that leads to these things, not just one or two people. Usually, teachers have grown up in the area, so don't know that schools can be any different. Ditto that for admin. Ditto that for parents. Instead, they say we don't have high caliber kids here or they point to the couple that do well and say, "see, it can happen," but fail to mention (or perhaps realize) how much these students do outside of school - learning and prepping on their own vs getting the foundation in school. One of our NMF told me she practically had to teach herself ALL the math on the SAT II.

 

The few of us who know life can be different feel we're on a whole different plane academically. Some parents do get angry, but they are too few to matter. Trying to mention anything to the masses is like speaking to a brick wall. So, our choices are to move (can't do that with a well-established business - plus, we like it here otherwise), homeschool (worked for my older two and set a decent earlier foundation for youngest), or do a ton outside of school.

 

The good thing is that NCLB, while it has flaws, is working to get our school to step up the education that no one here believes can be done (remember, we don't have that caliber of kid - supposedly). There have been positive steps lately (dropping movie week in favor of having kids read). It will take a LONG time and might never reach anything terrific (plus there are some flaws with NCLB), but overall, things are a little better now than they were 5 years ago. The masses change slowly.

 

It's not all the fault of the guidance dept. It's a massive system.

 

No, I wouldn't think that it was just the fault of the guidance dept. I was just wondering what people had concluded after a few years of being told that their scores were no problem and then not being accepted. Or is it a matter of adding into the idea that the school just doesn't have bright kids?

 

I suppose that part of the equation from our last home was that many of the parents in question had degrees (in many cases graduate degrees too) and were not about to let a counselor blow smoke at them.

 

I'm glad that it's turning around some. When we were in Hawaii, the attitude you described was sometimes called a plantation mentality (not referring to antebellum slavery) where the parents and grandparents had done just fine with minimal education because there were pineapple and sugar plantation or cannery jobs to be had. (In some cases, the families worked and lived on the plantation.) The last pineapple plantation for canned pineapple closed while we were there. But many were a generation or more behind in preparing for what came next.

[asta]

Assuming U of M admits students by major (or to schools like Engineering), it's likely that very, very, few with a score of 28 (lowest quarter) will make it into the most demanding math dependent majors even if they are from out of state. There are majors that don't correlate well with scores. Lower percentile students are often in those (or have other hooks).

 

The higher level schools can be picky - and usually are.

 

Do you mean someone with a math subscore of 28 or less or an aggregate score of 28? Because if you look at the breakdown of this year's ACT, a person could ace the math section but do poorly (or bomb) one or two other areas and easily end up with an aggregate 28.

 

I am old and forgetful, but I don't remember the engineering students at my school spending a great deal of time in English courses - they seemed to be up to their ears in math classes.

 

 

a

 

 

p.s. I'm kinda fuzzy headed today, but how is a 28/36 the lowest quarter?

[regentrude]

I'm kinda fuzzy headed today, but how is a 28/36 the lowest quarter?

 

I am pretty sure this refers to "lowest 25% of students admitted to this university/program with this kind of score".

I have often see data of ACT scores of admitted students at a school given in three ranges: the top 25%, middle 50%, and lowest quarter.

[asta]

I am pretty sure this refers to "lowest 25% of students admitted to this university/program with this kind of score".

I have often see data of ACT scores of admitted students at a school given in three ranges: the top 25%, middle 50%, and lowest quarter.

 

Thank you - I thought she was referring to the ACT scores themselves. I've been quite literal lately (hence, staying off the ever-misunderstood internets).

 

 

d

[creekland]

Do you mean someone with a math subscore of 28 or less or an aggregate score of 28? Because if you look at the breakdown of this year's ACT, a person could ace the math section but do poorly (or bomb) one or two other areas and easily end up with an aggregate 28.

 

I am old and forgetful, but I don't remember the engineering students at my school spending a great deal of time in English courses - they seemed to be up to their ears in math classes.

 

 

a

 

 

p.s. I'm kinda fuzzy headed today, but how is a 28/36 the lowest quarter?

 

 

Yes, as Regentrude stated, this is the lowest quarter just for the one school, certainly not all schools. I also doubt it's the lowest quarter for their engineering program (engineering will be higher). Those looking for math heavy majors at good schools should assume the scores they will need will be higher than the published average.

 

In my experience with kids at our school, engineering programs will want to see math higher than English (or any other subscore), but will still expect to see decent scores on English. Many don't care about the Writing section of the SAT or the Reading/Science section of the ACT (other than not wanting those subscores super low).

 

This kiddo of mine in no way wants Engineering or other math/heavy major, so this is just a side track of a side - but important knowledge to know for anyone else who might be interested. My guy will/should get in where he wants to go - it's solely the money/scholarship aspect that makes me disappointed with his score. He will not get enough in merit aid with his score (and need-based aid won't fill in). I ran a net price calculator for the specific school.