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Gifted child who dislikes challenge


Halcyon
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What to do? My 7 yo is gifted, accelerated slightly, in math and language arts. In math in particular he dislikes having to "work" to get an answer. He promptly declares it "too hard"m even though it is absolutely work he can do if he just sits down and stops griping. :glare:

 

Advice from BTDT moms? He is working through BA3B and, despite making some silly mistakes, does fine unless he hits a part that he deems "too hard". Then he just gives up. In CWP (nearing the end of 2) he either gets the answer immediately (and of course, this has to be done in his head or it's "too much work") or he asks for help.

 

In language arts, if I "walk him through" the question (for example, in Kiss Grammar, i need to say "What is the predicate adjective here?" "RIght, okay, so what is the prepositional phrase?" And he tells me the answer. If I don't walk him through it, he will often declare "This is too hard." )

 

Advice appreciated.

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Just a very general comment on this topic. I was also a gifted child who did not like challenges. I suspect it was related to the fact that everyone always bragged to me on how smart I was, based on how quickly and easily I solved ordinary problems, instead of pointing out to me how interesting the various subjects were. So I got the idea that my self esteem rested on always getting everything correct instead of learning the fun of exploring new things. When things were not immediately clear to me it threatened my self concept as smart kid. Maybe this could offer some ideas for providing different sources of reward and praise, that can help the child expand without fearing failure.

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I'm not sure I have advice, exactly, because I'm dealing with the same thing and haven't found one particular strategy that works every time. However, I'm now absolutely convinced that one of the greatest gifts I can give my children is learning the value of struggling through difficult problems (academic or otherwise). Once my dd finally gets something (with maybe a little guidance), I always help her recognize that feeling of accomplishment which results. She may still be complaining about how hard it was, but I can see on her face that she is secretly pleased with herself. Hang in there, I think it gets better!:)

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Just a very general comment on this topic. I was also a gifted child who did not like challenges. I suspect it was related to the fact that everyone always bragged to me on how smart I was, based on how quickly and easily I solved ordinary problems, instead of pointing out to me how interesting the various subjects were. So I got the idea that my self esteem rested on always getting everything correct instead of learning the fun of exploring new things. When things were not immediately clear to me it threatened my self concept as smart kid. Maybe this could offer some ideas for providing different sources of reward and praise, that can help the child expand without fearing failure.

 

This is interesting, because other kids and often adults will often say to him "youre so smart" (which i really dislike but cannot stop) and he often says to me "I'm a smart kid, arent' I" to which i respond "you have a unique way of looking at things and often come up with interesting ideas" or something vaguely supportive and bland. Or I will say "and you like to work hard and challenge yourself, which is very important" (sort of a reverse psychology thing LOL)

 

But you are right. He absolutely feels he is not smart if he gets a lot wrong, and will ask for easier work so he can get all the questions right and "feel smart" again. DH and I try very hard not to praise his brain, but praise his effort, attention, hard work and interesting, new ideas he comes up with.

 

Any other suggestions as to how I could let him know that who he is doesnt rest on his intelligence? One interestsing thing that has happened very recently is that he became involved in roller hockey (this is a non competitive boy) and his last game he was, amazingly, high scorer! The other kids were like "way to go!" and "you've really improved" and the coach commented on his effort and hard work. In a way, perhaps this will show him that there is more to him than his intelligence, and help him be more well rounded and show that hard work is rewarded (he was really not very good in the beginning!) I dont know.

 

Thanks.

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I'm not sure I have advice, exactly, because I'm dealing with the same thing and haven't found one particular strategy that works every time. However, I'm now absolutely convinced that one of the greatest gifts I can give my children is learning the value of struggling through difficult problems (academic or otherwise). Once my dd finally gets something (with maybe a little guidance), I always help her recognize that feeling of accomplishment which results. She may still be complaining about how hard it was, but I can see on her face that she is secretly pleased with herself. Hang in there, I think it gets better!:)

 

Yes, I notice this too. He was working through a challenging singapore problem today (something along the lines of "two ropes equaled 33 inches, one rope was 5 inches shorter than the other, what was the length of the longer rope" something like that) and he was getting annoyed because I mentioned he might want to draw a visual representation. He wanted to do it in his head, and then said it was too hard. Finally, he figured it out with some guidance, and did another similar question alone and I DO think he felt proud. But i dont know if he felt proud ENOUGH to justify struggling again LOL.

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My oldest is like this. I'm hoping some of it will be outgrown. You're not giving me much hope. LOL

 

She will give up on anything that she deems too difficult. And to add insult to injury, she'll then think the whole set is too difficult even if there are problems that are nearing on too easy for her.

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not sure how much this will help, but I have explicitly told both of my dd's that if they get everything right with no work/struggle, then I haven't done my job because I haven't challenged them to their full potential. Making mistakes is part of life and learning and indicates not failure but a chance to improve and learn more. I would not suggest with one so young that you push him across the board, but maybe choose one subject to push more - give him work where he really does make mistakes and insist that he do the work (I know, easier said than done!) and praise the heck out of him when he does it. Slowly but surely you can build up this capacity to make mistakes and learn and move on.

I have also told my dds that everyone gets to the point where school gets hard at some time and those who hit that point younger benefit from learning how to work through challenges. They might be smart enough to not hit that point until college or even grad school - but it will come. Working through a challenge is an important life skill and as worth learning at the elementary age as any academic subject imo. And so I challenge them regularly so that they learn that skill. (and give lots of hugs when the result of the challenge is tears - hugs, but they still have to do it!:auto:)

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In math in particular he dislikes having to "work" to get an answer. He promptly declares it "too hard"m even though it is absolutely work he can do if he just sits down and stops griping.

 

Hi, my 9 yro son (who is NOT accelerated or gifted) also does this. Could this be a boy thing? Or something with that age? In the past year, I've just started walking away when he works on math. If he starts complaining, I tell him that he needs to "try and work it out". Just try, Dude. :glare: I'm not completely heartless, though. I will come back and help if he can't work out a problem on his own. I think part of my issue is that I probably helped him TOO much when he was younger - walking him thru problems...and now he has trained himself not to work out problems on his own. My best advice is to just walk away or leave the room for awhile. This seems to be working for my son.

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I have issues like this with both my kids. I completely agree with the comment that it is important to help kids to learn to struggle through to get an answer. I also think it is easy for a gifted kid to hang all of his self-esteem on his ability to get that answer easily. However, at 7yo (my oldest is the same age), I often wonder if part of them problem is me expecting that she can do it. It is very hard for me to hide my "this-should-be-easy-for-you" attitude.

 

It is easy to forget that she is only 7yo, and although she does understand the concepts, she may not be developmentally ready to handle the multi-step problems on her own without direction. That doesn't mean that I don't assign them. But I have tried to guide her through each step without actually telling her the answers. I find that if I just ask, "What do you have to do first with this kind of problem?" and then, "Okay, what comes next?" she is able to handle the problems most of the time. I think what happens is that she sees the problem, and when the answer cannot be immediately seen, she gets overwhelmed. But when I ask her to focus on just the first step, it gives her permission to not know the answer and to focus instead on the process.

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This is interesting, because other kids and often adults will often say to him "youre so smart" (which i really dislike but cannot stop) and he often says to me "I'm a smart kid, arent' I" to which i respond "you have a unique way of looking at things and often come up with interesting ideas" or something vaguely supportive and bland. Or I will say "and you like to work hard and challenge yourself, which is very important" (sort of a reverse psychology thing LOL)

 

:lol: I say the same kind of things to my kids when they talk about how smart they are.

 

By any chance, does your DS like puzzles? I saw on your other thread that he likes Minecraft. Doesn't he have to puzzle out how to solve logistic problems with Minecraft? My DS9 loves puzzles. Mental puzzles, logic puzzles, codes, jigsaw puzzles, mindbenders... Suffice it to say, the kid likes puzzles. ;) We nicknamed him our Puzzlin' Fool from the time he was about 2 and would solve 100 pc Melissa & Doug floor puzzles in what seemed like the blink of an eye. (The nickname was/is a compliment, in case there is any confusion. :tongue_smilie:) When we officially started school, he behaved the same way you're describing. I was confused...and irritated. He was/is a perfectionist, so embarrassed to get anything wrong. He pretty much taught himself to read and wouldn't read anything aloud to me until he was sure he had it. I had to listen by his bedroom door if I wanted to hear him read. I was both :001_wub: and :glare:. But I digress...

 

The biggest thing that helped? I had a light bulb moment about his simultaneous love of puzzling and extraordinary dislike of the feeling of being stuck in a problem for school. I'm sorry, but what? One is fun and rewarding and one is embarrassing? :001_huh: What did I actively do? I read him biographies of great puzzlers. I read to him about Edison and Einstein...and others I can't remember right now but those are two he still brings up. He was stunned at how much the great puzzlers failed. He learned to appreciate that the real determiner of success was dogged perseverance. Our biggest frustration was math, so I purposefully taught him the difference between math (the puzzles) and arithmetic (the tools used to solve the puzzles). I verbally compliment him on his determination, basically transferring his source of pride from innate intelligence to effort. When he is stuck on a problem and getting frustrated, I give him a shoulder squeeze and ask if my Puzzlin' Fool needs a break or a different strategy. When he works hard on a problem and finally gets it, instead of telling me how smart he is, he now says, "I'm your Puzzlin' Fool, right Mom?" I love that.

 

I pull out my printed copy of Hard Problems from the AoPS web site periodically. I instruct my kids in the strategies for dealing with hard problems...and then admire them when they employ them.

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:lol: I say the same kind of things to my kids when they talk about how smart they are.

 

By any chance, does your DS like puzzles? I saw on your other thread that he likes Minecraft. Doesn't he have to puzzle out how to solve logistic problems with Minecraft? My DS9 loves puzzles. Mental puzzles, logic puzzles, codes, jigsaw puzzles, mindbenders... Suffice it to say, the kid likes puzzles. ;) We nicknamed him our Puzzlin' Fool from the time he was about 2 and would solve 100 pc Melissa & Doug floor puzzles in what seemed like the blink of an eye. (The nickname was/is a compliment, in case there is any confusion. :tongue_smilie:) When we officially started school, he behaved the same way you're describing. I was confused...and irritated. He was/is a perfectionist, so embarrassed to get anything wrong. He pretty much taught himself to read and wouldn't read anything aloud to me until he was sure he had it. I had to listen by his bedroom door if I wanted to hear him read. I was both :001_wub: and :glare:. But I digress...

 

The biggest thing that helped? I had a light bulb moment about his simultaneous love of puzzling and extraordinary dislike of the feeling of being stuck in a problem for school. I'm sorry, but what? One is fun and rewarding and one is embarrassing? :001_huh: What did I actively do? I read him biographies of great puzzlers. I read to him about Edison and Einstein...and others I can't remember right now but those are two he still brings up. He was stunned at how much the great puzzlers failed. He learned to appreciate that the real determiner of success was dogged perseverance. Our biggest frustration was math, so I purposefully taught him the difference between math (the puzzles) and arithmetic (the tools used to solve the puzzles). I verbally compliment him on his determination, basically transferring his source of pride from innate intelligence to effort. When he is stuck on a problem and getting frustrated, I give him a shoulder squeeze and ask if my Puzzlin' Fool needs a break or a different strategy. When he works hard on a problem and finally gets it, instead of telling me how smart he is, he now says, "I'm your Puzzlin' Fool, right Mom?" I love that.

 

I pull out my printed copy of Hard Problems from the AoPS web site periodically. I instruct my kids in the strategies for dealing with hard problems...and then admire them when they employ them.

 

Thank you! He loves puzzles:soduko, logic games, labyrthinth online...i like your suggestions!!

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No advice, but I have one of those. My younger son has this extremely small window where the level of work is just right. That is the level where he won't have a shutdown or meltdown. It was very difficult to deal with when we were homeschooling.

 

When I had him do things that were above his comfort zone, I told him up front that he would have to think to figure it out. So, I would have him read the problem and then before he could declare it too hard, I would tell him to stop and think. About 80% of the time, that would result in him being able to solve the problem.

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My 6 yo son is reasonably bright, accelerated in some areas and picks many things up reasonably easily. But I have tried to never tell him he's smart. (Of course, he does hear it from the grandparents & other loved ones.) Whenever he achieves something new, I always praise how hard he worked to get there. And I'm always emphasizing practice & hard work.

 

That being said, I don't know how well it's working. My son sounds just like your son. Whenever he can't figure something out immediately, he tells me it's too hard & he can't do it. Sometimes mini meltdowns even follow. UGH!

 

I think part of it is personality and how much somebody is driven to succeed. I've been struggling with this a lot lately.

 

I'm going to keep following this thread, implement some of the ideas, and keep hoping he grows out of it. (Fingers crossed!!) If anybody has read any worthwhile books on the topic, I'd love to know.

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I think for a lot of kids it's like preparing a recipe. They look at the ingredients of the instructions, that part makes sense. Go get me two eggs. Easy.

 

Then things start getting more complicated...and yet there still is no cake.

 

A technique my mother taught me was to take things in itty bitty pieces, and the way we did it was to use index cards. Whatever was written/studied/explored "in the moment" was only the amount of information that a single card could hold. Once that small piece was mastered, it was onto the next thing, I only had to manipulate and learn that small scrap of paper, then toss it off into a shoebox on the table.

 

After some time, the box would hold a hundred or so cards. Then we would take them out and sort them by beginning, middle, end or some sort of thing. The entire table would be covered in stacks of cards and arranged logically.

 

This helped me because I'm a "why" sort of person, every one thing leads to another question, like a spider web. It helped to control my focus and fluency.

 

I still do this technique for myself, I tend to go small and master one thing, and then onto the next, give it some rest, reorganize the field of things I learn or am teaching and pull it into big picture **later**.

 

Could it be anything like this for your DS? He's big picture and just needs help breaking it down in certain disciplines, or even more-so, the entire field of learning style?

 

Just a thought, could be totally off the mark here.

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I've always told my kids that it doesn't matter how smart they are if they don't work hard. They can be genius couch potatoes and never make a difference in the world. I try to give them opportunities to accomplish real things that they can be really proud of instead of having their esteem rest on some standard of "being smart" or getting an answer right. At 7, my older dd spent a lot of time on the floor certain the world would end, and I spent a lot of time practicing patience and wondering if we'd both survive. We added things like Problemoids to our math, did fewer problems, changed programs, took long breaks from math, and generally tried everything. She's still highly gifted and very accelerated and breezes through math without ever having learned to work hard in it. Her math teacher gives her 5-10 challenging problems a day to work instead of the 30 problems the rest of the class gets. She did quit having tantrums when she doesn't understand a problem. She's learned to back up and look at it a different way before she has a fit, then have her teacher explain it - okay so that has only happened once this year because she insists that time is relative and not absolute and that she can't figure out elapsed time unless she knows where in the universe the person asking the question is.

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Hi Halcyon,

 

I'm not sure if my oldest son is accelerated or gifted, but he sounds similar to your son in this situation :laugh:. Some of the best advice I have read is from Po Bronson's book "Nurture Shock", particularly Chapter One - The Inverse Power of Praise. He discusses how we sabatoge our kids by praising them in a way that makes them feel powerless.

 

"Emphasizing effort gives a child a variable that they can control...they come to see themselves as in control of their success. Emphasazing natural intelligence takes it out of the child's control, and it provides no good recipe for responding to failure'"

 

I thought the best take home advice for my child was to tell him that the brain is a muscle, and by making his brain work hard it makes it smarter/stronger. He has really responded to that but it is hard when outsiders tell him how "smart" he is. I tell him when something is too easy it isn't making his brain stronger and when something is difficult "oh, your brain must be growing so much right now!". You may need to use more sophisticated language with an older child LOL!

 

There are some great suggestions from previous posters, I will be adding some of those as well!

 

Marisa

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A technique my mother taught me was to take things in itty bitty pieces, and the way we did it was to use index cards. Whatever was written/studied/explored "in the moment" was only the amount of information that a single card could hold. Once that small piece was mastered, it was onto the next thing, I only had to manipulate and learn that small scrap of paper, then toss it off into a shoebox on the table.

 

 

 

One Mom, Can you explain this a little more? Provide an example?

 

Some kids are just like this. And remember it has its strengths...the opposite is just as, if not more frustrating a quality. Believe me I have one of each.

I really like the idea of giving math problems that are not due for a week. That may take some of the pressure off and I intend to try this with math olympiad problems.

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My oldest son was like this from a very young age. I noticed it the first time with walking. He could stand bolt upright at 6 mos. old (we have a church photo from the baby class...all the babies, except mine, were sitting propped up against the wall). By the time he was 9 mos old (probably earlier, but I know it was happening at 9mos, because my mom was visiting), he could walk just by holding my pinkie finger without any issue. If I let go, he would look at me, and immediately sit down. No amount of encouraging, cajoling, or incentive would get him to just walk. I swear it was an innate fear of failure.

 

It's like the child would learn a ton and then just stop...unwilling (or unable) to take the next leap, and then seemingly, from out of nowhere, have jumped far, far beyond his topping point (child could sound out letters but not blend...then one day moved through blending to reading complex words). And practice? The child hated practice. Saxon and 100EZ Lessons bored him to tears (meltdown, I hate this tears, when he was begging to learn). Once we found programs that were appropriate, the tears disappeared (and once I realized that just because the lesson says, "do all of the lesson" I didn't have to).

 

As far as I know, no one had been telling my child from babyhood how "smart" he was...I'm pretty sure it was nature, not nurture.

 

Since I was running into this issue from a really young age, and I didn't want to make school a battleground, we signed him up for piano...and sure enough, it was "too hard." Tears ensued, practice was torture (to him). However, it did make a huge difference with reinforcing the practicing to master skills and separated that from school when he was young. I saw a noticeable improvement in his willingness to tackle more difficult things in school, and with piano, he was able to look back and see the books that seemed so hard when he had started, and compare that to where he ended up.

 

He's now 13...I wish I could say that he'd overcome his issues with being challenged, but they still exist. I've also learned some more things about this child as to how he processes information... he does not infer well... he likes things to be straightforward. So a program like LoF is only enjoyable after he's already mastered the material, he has a lot of difficulty drawing it out (at least in Geometry); however he hasn't had any struggle so far with AoPS Geometry (some of it may be that he just "gets" Geometry). We've got a bit of stretching to do on developing understanding from context cues (he has gotten better with this as he's gotten older), and we're heading there even more in high school...however I've pushed more of that battle to the side until he is 15 (my mom really struggled with this, and things that were more nuanced clicked later for her).

 

We no longer have piano, but he is involved in swimming...that works for PE, personal goal setting, and hopefully helping to develop some internal motivation (pushing beyond what his pre-determined capabilities)...we talk a lot about how his coaches won't ask him to do something they do not think he is capable of doing...which means they must see something in him he hasn't discovered yet.

 

This is all to say, that his experience in Hockey may very well translate to his school work...and keep in mind that sometimes, backing off and taking a break is the right approach. Your child may rapidly learn in one area and then one day just "stop" for awhile, so that it can grow rapidly in another area. No amount of prodding, encouragement, or working through frustration will fix that...the only answer to that situation is time.

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This is my dd as well. Interestingly, she's also 7 and working in Beast Academy. With her, the issue is simpler. She doesn't want to spend time figuring something out. For her, school is something to be endured and gotten over with as quickly as possible so that she can have free time. If the answer doesn't come to her immediately, she gives up, not because she is easily frustrated, but because she simply doesn't care.

 

I don't know the answer. :(

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This is my dd as well. Interestingly, she's also 7 and working in Beast Academy. With her, the issue is simpler. She doesn't want to spend time figuring something out. For her, school is something to be endured and gotten over with as quickly as possible so that she can have free time. If the answer doesn't come to her immediately, she gives up, not because she is easily frustrated, but because she simply doesn't care.

 

I don't know the answer. :(

 

Okay, you just described my 8 y/o dd this year. UGH! Honestly, I am looking into maybe some Problem Based Learning for her.

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One thing we did once, when Alex hit a wall in Beast Academy (hmm, I see a common thread...), was to look up "famous unsolved math problems" on Wikipedia. We talked about math problems that went unsolved for hundreds of years, and mathematicians who grew up, spent their whole careers, and died while certain math problems couldn't be answered. You'd think that would be anxiety-provoking for a kid who never wants to not know the answer, but she actually seemed to find it really reassuring.

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What did I actively do? I read him biographies of great puzzlers. I read to him about Edison and Einstein...and others I can't remember right now but those are two he still brings up. He was stunned at how much the great puzzlers failed. He learned to appreciate that the real determiner of success was dogged perseverance. Our biggest frustration was math, so I purposefully taught him the difference between math (the puzzles) and arithmetic (the tools used to solve the puzzles). I verbally compliment him on his determination, basically transferring his source of pride from innate intelligence to effort.

 

Do you by chance remember the titles of these books? This maybe a very good tactic to take with ds as well.

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My DS7 is like this!! My other kids to a lesser degree. I agree with comments about praising effort and not making summative declarations (you're smart, you're gifted, you are so good at ___. etc). I don't have much more to offer in the BTDT category myself, except for the fact that I make a real effort to work with DS when he has that attitude, and then have him reflect when he's completed the "too hard" thing.

 

What I do want to add is that my brother was VERY much the same way. He was the crown prince in my family's eyes and no one ever made him do things if he said they were too hard. Fast forward he's now 30 and only now beginning to realize he has to stick with things and work at them even when they aren't in his interest area or they don't come easily to him. (I think this is mostly due to positive influence of his wife). He's the reason I spend so much time with DS to help move him through the hard stuff and recognize his efforts - I am hoping he will learn the lesson earlier than at 30.

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One thing we did once, when Alex hit a wall in Beast Academy (hmm, I see a common thread...), was to look up "famous unsolved math problems" on Wikipedia. We talked about math problems that went unsolved for hundreds of years, and mathematicians who grew up, spent their whole careers, and died while certain math problems couldn't be answered. You'd think that would be anxiety-provoking for a kid who never wants to not know the answer, but she actually seemed to find it really reassuring.

 

Rivka, I think my son would find this fascinating! I think he would love to hear about "famous" mathematicians who struggled for years and years and years...might make the 15 minutes he works on a difficult math problem seem not so bad LOL.

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This is my dd as well. Interestingly, she's also 7 and working in Beast Academy. With her, the issue is simpler. She doesn't want to spend time figuring something out. For her, school is something to be endured and gotten over with as quickly as possible so that she can have free time. If the answer doesn't come to her immediately, she gives up, not because she is easily frustrated, but because she simply doesn't care.

I don't know the answer. :(

\

 

 

Well, there's this too :D He too wants to "get school over with" so he can go back to drawing his cartoon figures or reading his book or painting gift cards for his friends or preparing birthday party prizes for his Teddy's birthday.........:rolleyes:

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I think it is a large part of how our whole culture is (for those of us in USA)--supposed to be very different in Asia, for example. The bit we try to do to praise effort and so on, may not be enough to overcome the general cultural message, and may also be hampered by our own unconscious contrary messages.

 

It is also possible that what you are saying (or not) actually leaves him in doubt as to his abilities... When he turns to you and says what you quoted above. ' he often says to me "I'm a smart kid, arent' I" ' does this sound like he is bragging on himself or in doubt about himself? If he is doubt about himself, then he may need reassurance and not a bland reply that may leave him thinking he isn't really all that smart and that things really are too hard for him.

 

I have started trying to explicitly discuss the differences (cultural views) and the need for effort and struggle with ds. He had to struggle a lot with reading, and did do so. But math was his 'easy' subject, and he doesn't feel he should have to work hard in math. And if he were doing an easy math program for his grade, I guess he would not have to--but to get to a level where he will have math levels needed in time for things like math based physics, then he does have to.

 

One small piece of advice in a BTDT way is that giving a "test" (even a material "pretest") and saying it will be hard, but has to be done as best he can figure out to do it without my help was sometimes useful.

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\

 

 

Well, there's this too :D He too wants to "get school over with" so he can go back to drawing his cartoon figures or reading his book or painting gift cards for his friends or preparing birthday party prizes for his Teddy's birthday......... :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Well, those things are important too! I have the required subjects as a set time per day, so it gets over with when it gets over with. How hard it is may mean less gets done in a given time slot, but the slot will not end sooner with easier questions that allow finishing a page faster. But I do think painting a gift card and the other things is important. Does art and such get time allocated to it?

 

Today actually I am allowing an experiment of doing a half day of school early (including math), then out to play while it is still light (we are much farther north than you), then will try to finish up school in the evening in place of what is usually an evening DVD.

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Well, those things are important too! I have the required subjects as a set time per day, so it gets over with when it gets over with. How hard it is may mean less gets done in a given time slot, but the slot will not end sooner with easier questions that allow finishing a page faster. But I do think painting a gift card and the other things is important. Does art and such get time allocated to it?

Today actually I am allowing an experiment of doing a half day of school early (including math), then out to play while it is still light (we are much farther north than you), then will try to finish up school in the evening in place of what is usually an evening DVD.

 

Oh my, I didnt mean to imply that I dont think those activities are valuable or important. Darn emoticons LOL. I just meant that he would much, much rather do his own thing all day than do any actual "school work". We have scheduled Fridays as our Project Day, which means the entire day is devoted to projects of their own choosing, but throughout the week, they still have time to do their own thing (well, especially now that hockey season is on break!) He knows he gets done around noon most days, having worked "formally" about 3 hours.

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