bobbeym Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 DS is *almost* ready to take his Alg 1 final exam. It was supposed to be a midterm (Ch 1-6) and final (Ch 7-12). Each chapter has 6-8 questions, with 92 questions total. Do you think it's better to let him take them as two separate tests over 2 days or as one long exam? The test/s is his only real grade, worth 90% of the course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) 92 Questions????? No way I would give this in a single sitting. For that matter, I don't think I'd give an exam with 92 questions at all. Not even to my college students. Since math builds on itself, wouldn't all material of the earlier chapters be needed for success in the later ones? Do you really need that many questions to judge your student's mastery? I would seriously think about whittling this down to a more manageable amount. It takes one system of linear equations to see if the student can do this. One quadratic equation. One problem factoring of quadratics. One problem graphing linear equations. Edited November 10, 2012 by regentrude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeym Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 I admit that we're still trying to get out of "ps mindset" so to any of us in the house, 50 math problems on a major exam is not unexpected. I suppose I could have him do just odds or evens, which would at least cut it in half. He does need more than just one of any particular type of problem. He tends to make careless mistakes b/c he's trying to rush through it or working steps in his head, and making him do the same type of problems multiple times is the only way I can be sure he actually understands what he's doing. I did tell him that he's not taking the final until he can do the review questions almost error free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I'd cut it in half and take two days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 He does need more than just one of any particular type of problem. He tends to make careless mistakes b/c he's trying to rush through it or working steps in his head, and making him do the same type of problems multiple times is the only way I can be sure he actually understands what he's doing. That's what practice is for, isn't it? He definitely needs more than one problem of each kind in his daily practice - but I assume you correct his math work with him and see whether he understands the material while he is learning. I did tell him that he's not taking the final until he can do the review questions almost error free. I find this an excellent way to make sure my student is prepared. My kids have to show that they know the material before they are allowed to take their final; if they don't, they have to go back to reviewing. Good luck with your test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tampamommy Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 If you're going to stick with all 92 problems, then I would definitely do it over a two day period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeym Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 DS18 said his final exams for his DE math classes last year usually had about 75 problems. Since this is only a 9th grade algebra 1 final, I do think I need to cut it down. Just not sure which way to go on that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The test/s is his only real grade, worth 90% of the course. 90%? I think that is an incredibly unbalanced and unfair approach for a high school course. (actually, I think it is not representative of any course I have seen/taken at the high school or undergraduate level.) Typically final exams are worth 20%-30% of the course grade. A normal breakdown might look something like: 15% daily work 50% chpt tests 15% mid-term 20% final or not giving grades on daily work and grading something like: 60% for chpt tests 20% for mid-term 20% for final 80% for chpt tests/midterm (not giving the mid-term any more weight than an normal exam) 20% for the final Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeym Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 I haven't kept grades for any of the end of chapter problems, because the original math spiral was accidentally thrown out so we lost chapters 1-5 of work before the grades were recorded. I didn't feel like making him redo the work b/c of Dad's mistake. I don't see anything wrong with having the final exam as his main grade because I know he's going to do very well on it, since we'll have done dozens of practice problems before then. I know I"m not the only one here that grades like that, and it's not a normal thing. It's an exception made for this one course b/c of the circumstances. He does get a notebook grade for all of his daily work, which is standard for all our courses at 10%. Going back to my original question, all I wondered was whether it was better to split the final exam into two tests with individual grades or keep it as one grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) 90%? I think that is an incredibly unbalanced and unfair approach for a high school course. I disagree. The purpose of a math course, especially a foundational one like algebra 1 in high school, is long term retention and mastery. If my student can do the problems of the chapter the week the chapter is studied, but not six months later, he has not truly learned the material; the grade of the chapter test is irrelevant. DH and I base our kids' math grades solely on one comprehensive final, because being able to work with the concepts even at the end of the year is the only thing that matters. Since we award grades for subject mastery and not participation, that is fair. Edited November 10, 2012 by regentrude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 DS18 said his final exams for his DE math classes last year usually had about 75 problems. Just a side note: not all math problems are created equal. I have given exams in Multivariable Calculus that had five problems requiring about 90 minutes to complete. My precalc finals usually had about 30 problems, many with parts so actually more than 30. Please do not gauge an exam by raw number of problems but by the content. There is no reason to give a number of problems directly from early chapters since that content is incorporated into later material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I admit that we're still trying to get out of "ps mindset" so to any of us in the house, 50 math problems on a major exam is not unexpected. I suppose I could have him do just odds or evens, which would at least cut it in half. He does need more than just one of any particular type of problem. He tends to make careless mistakes b/c he's trying to rush through it or working steps in his head, and making him do the same type of problems multiple times is the only way I can be sure he actually understands what he's doing. I did tell him that he's not taking the final until he can do the review questions almost error free. Devil's Advocate here: Is it possible that the "careless mistakes" are an indication that he doesn't quite understand what he's doing? Would fewer problems on the test reduce the urge to rush to get through it all? On the topic of 50 question tests from a school setting, I don't see how those could be questions of much meaning or difficulty given that a class period is 45-90 minutes long. What if you gave him a pre-test and then had the final exam ready? Tell him that if he gets a 93% or higher (set the range where you want) on the pre-test, he doesn't have to do the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeym Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 I disagree. The purpose of a math course, especially a foundational one like algebra 1 in high school, is long term retention and mastery. If my student can do the problems of the chapter the week the chapter is studied, but not six months later, he has not truly learned the material; the grade of the chapter test is irrelevant.DH and I base our kids' math grades solely on one comprehensive final, because being able to work with the concepts even at the end of the year is the only thing that matters. Since we award grades for subject mastery and not participation, that is fair. Thanks Regentrude. That was the thought behind my grading decisions. This is our 5th math curriculum since January, so part of it he knows well since he's repeated it often enough. Just a side note: not all math problems are created equal. I have given exams in Multivariable Calculus that had five problems requiring about 90 minutes to complete. My precalc finals usually had about 30 problems, many with parts so actually more than 30. Please do not gauge an exam by raw number of problems but by the content. There is no reason to give a number of problems directly from early chapters since that content is incorporated into later material. Good food for thought. Thanks. Should I pull just one problem from the early chapters and 2-3 from the later ones? Devil's Advocate here: Is it possible that the "careless mistakes" are an indication that he doesn't quite understand what he's doing? Would fewer problems on the test reduce the urge to rush to get through it all? On the topic of 50 question tests from a school setting, I don't see how those could be questions of much meaning or difficulty given that a class period is 45-90 minutes long. What if you gave him a pre-test and then had the final exam ready? Tell him that if he gets a 93% or higher (set the range where you want) on the pre-test, he doesn't have to do the final. It's very possible, which is why I'm having him do corrections and then more review problems from those chapters. Some of them really are careless mistakes though, like changing signs or adding () when he shouldn't. I'm not sure what I could give him as a pre-test, other than the review problems that we're already doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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