Gifted Kids and Mistakes

[zenjenn]

Game up recently with some others I was speaking to - an advice on how to get them to not beat themselves up about mistakes?

 

On a good day, I get her coming to me launching into some huge explanation as to why she got a single math problem wrong on her assignment. "I was just confused. I mean, I KNEW what to do, but I just subtracted instead of adding. I don't know why I did that. But I TOTALLY understand it. I shouldn't have got that wrong. I can show you right now how that I know how to do it.."

 

On a bad day - TOTAL COMPLETE MELTDOWN.

 

What is helping some, is gymnastics and cello. She is learning how to work through mistakes and get better without taking every single mistake as an affirmation of what a flawed person she is.

 

However, she has not exactly applied that mentality to academics yet..

[Dmmetler]

One thing I've found helps is to practice making mistakes and strategies for when you don't know what to do next with content where it's patently obvious, even to DD, that she's NOT going to know everything, and getting 50% correct is a GOOD performance. DH has shown her competition books for things like the Putnam math contest, and what his scores were. Math Olympiad practice is good, and I've given her released state test pages where she knew some of the content, but not all.

 

And a big part of it is simply recognizing when the problem is making a mistake-and when the problem is simply being overwhelmed with life. Right now, DD is struggling a lot with the latter, so any mistake leads to a meltdown, but that's not the "inability to handle making a mistake" so much as "I'm losing my marbles and the last one just started rolling!".

[Joshin]

DS7, the closest child I have to a perfectionist, doesn't beat himself up over mistakes often although he will continue at a problem until he gets it right, which can eat up time.

 

He used to get more frustrated, but thankfully his heroes in documentaries and books have given him some good food for thought to help him overcome it. His favorite thing to say is a play off JFK's moon mission speech. He messes up and he says, "Well, it's just like the moon. I'm not doing this because it's easy." Or I remind him that it's like science and there are no mistakes, that he just discovered a way that doesn't work so now he can work at finding the ways it does.

 

Making mistakes into a fun challenge alleviated his concerns of being right all the time, too. He's very mathy, so we used to sit down when he made math mistakes and figure out exactly why something didn't work, which made it a game since the mistake became the new problem to solve. For example when he started multiplication, he spent some time on the whiteboard figuring out why does 1x1=1 while 1+1=2? If there's a way to make the mistake fun it helps, which for all I know may only be possible in a subject a kid already likes!

[SorrelZG]

I ask this question with complete innocence but being the sensitive sort, I would read it with snark so I'm just saying up front that none is involved.

 

Is there any difference between a regular child and a gifted one when it comes to perfectionism and mistakes? I just wondered because it's only my "regular" child who has this problem and I'm still learning how best to work with her through it.

[zenjenn]

My regular child just rolls with it when it comes to mistakes, but then, she's used to making them. Missing a few problems on the math assignment and spelling several words incorrectly in her writing work is a daily occurrence for her. It would be completely irrational for her to get THAT upset every time it happened. If she did she's be having meltdowns six times a day.

 

My gifted child on the other hand, is accustomed to getting everything right most of the time, so when a mistake happens she freaks the heck out.

 

Obviously one approach is to up the ante so that the work is more challenging and the mistakes become something she's exposed to regularly as well. The problem is, when I try - she freaks out that it is too hard (and then I start questioning myself that it IS too hard, because the level of work that gets her to the point where she consistently makes a few mistakes IS considered unreasonable for her age by just about any measure, and I don't want to become a crazy Tiger Mom either.)

[Joshin]

I think perfectionism is a personality quirk that just happens to show up more often in the gifted but anyone can possess it.

[Dmmetler]

:iagree:

 

I think it's more the effect of "when it's rare, it's hard to handle". My DD rolls with mistakes pretty well in dance or gymnastics, and doesn't get into that frustration/meltdown cycle when something isn't coming easily all that often anymore, but a missed math problem can send her into a tailspin. She has a friend who is very gifted physically who skipped a level in dance this year-and regularly now comes out of class in tears because in DD's level, she was always the best and the one the instructor used as a model. Now she's no longer the best and is struggling (but still doing exceptionally well for her age), and is having a hard time coping-but that same child has NO trouble getting 5 wrong on a math test without being nervous or concerned about it.

 

My job, for DD, has been to make academics challenging enough that mistakes aren't so rare for her-which has meant giving my 7 yr old middle or high school level materials.

[SorrelZG]

Yeah, that makes sense. My children must be just totally irregular since they seem to be the opposite. (Not that DS cares for having to make an effort, just that he doesn't have a fit about making mistakes because typically he doesn't make them once he actually does do what is before him to do or he refuses and makes the mistakes on purpose in lieu of the effort required to think).

Edited November 8, 2012 by SCGS

[SKL]

I generally speak positively about mistakes as they are learning opportunities. I also talk about the fact that everyone makes mistakes and give examples of mistakes I have made.

 

I do think the gymnastics stuff may help too. My youngest is academically gifted but pretty awkward in gymnastics. She has learned that she will not be judged for falling short but will be encouraged to try again until she has improved.

 

I know the frustration of those silly math mistakes. I can't tell you how many times I got a tough problem wrong ONLY because I mixed up 2x3 vs 2+3 - in high school! DUH! And I would reverse signs regularly. I don't blame your daughter for being frustrated. Eventually I learned to carefully doublecheck the "easy" parts of the problems.

 

I still make dumb mistakes sometimes in my work, and nobody cares about the reason why (stupid person or silly mistake). All they care about is that mistakes are rare and don't end up in the final analysis. So the skill of double- and triple-checking is valuable no matter how smart you are. ;)

[LisaKinVA]

My oldest was so afraid of making mistakes, that he wouldn't try. We worked on that issue with music lessons and sports...things he had to practice to get right. He does pretty well now with dealing with mistakes, although he went through a period with the VA of calling himself stupid as he hit his own head...we left the VA.

 

My older dd was no problem...until last year when we signed her up for an online class. OH. MY. Total, utter meltdowns. She has always been an emotional roller coaster. So, we've worked with her using a "you need to go to your room until you can calm down" approach. This wasn't a punishment, we are trying to teach her how to recognize her emotional limits, and when she's reaching them to get some alone time to rest or regroup. She now talks me through most of her mistakes (the way you describe).

 

My younger ds tends to get angry and frustrated. We're handling it the same way as with my older dd.

 

So far, there don't seem to be any issues with perfectionism that have really shown themselves with my youngest two dd's.

[zaichiki]

My gifted child on the other hand, is accustomed to getting everything right most of the time, so when a mistake happens she freaks the heck out.

 

Obviously one approach is to up the ante so that the work is more challenging and the mistakes become something she's exposed to regularly as well. The problem is, when I try - she freaks out that it is too hard (and then I start questioning myself that it IS too hard, because the level of work that gets her to the point where she consistently makes a few mistakes IS considered unreasonable for her age by just about any measure, and I don't want to become a crazy Tiger Mom either.)

 

 

Yes (to the underlined part)! This is it!

 

For my oldest, we've gone through this with several academic areas. For my older dd, we've been there/done that with music. Sometimes it's hard to find the right level of challenge. Too easy is bad b/c it leads to lack of work ethic, overconfidence, and being used to never making a mistake/everything coming easily. When I find what I *think* is the right challenge level we've sometimes had meltdowns and tantrums. This is SO confusing for mom!

 

It's been trial and error (over and over and over) for us. The dramatic reactions come and go. I keep reminding myself about stages. And I think of their learning like the rise/run of a staircase. Mostly I try, hope, and pray.

[lizbusby]

When I was a kid and had perfectionistic problems, my mother used to tell me that people were required to make 10 mistakes a day or they would be "translated" straight to heaven. Not sure how to translate this without the Mormon religious context, but giving your child a number of "free" mistakes they can make each day without judging themselves might help.

[SorrelZG]

When I was a kid and had perfectionistic problems, my mother used to tell me that people were required to make 10 mistakes a day or they would be "translated" straight to heaven. Not sure how to translate this without the Mormon religious context, but giving your child a number of "free" mistakes they can make each day without judging themselves might help.

 

:lol: I like it. I think I've resorted to this occasionally with DD (or DS, I recalled that he does get perfectionistic now and then with his handwriting) just out of frustration rather than well thought out strategy. I'll keep it in mind as an actual plan in future, before frustration sets in.:tongue_smilie:

[Barbara H]

This might sound crazy...

 

But, here's how I framed it with math. If you are consistently getting everything right then I am the one who made a mistake by giving you work that was too easy and you aren't getting a chance to learn. If you are consistently getting most of the math wrong then I've made a mistake by giving you math that's too hard. We need to work together to try to find work that has enough challenge so you can make some mistakes because mistakes are how you learn.

 

Modeling is also important. Without being too heavy handed or obvious about it, I'd find ways to work it into conversation when you make a mistake and how it ends up not being a problem or how you use it as to learn.

[Greenmama2]

This might sound crazy...

 

But, here's how I framed it with math. If you are consistently getting everything right then I am the one who made a mistake by giving you work that was too easy and you aren't getting a chance to learn. If you are consistently getting most of the math wrong then I've made a mistake by giving you math that's too hard. We need to work together to try to find work that has enough challenge so you can make some mistakes because mistakes are how .

Thanks for this. I am going to try this approach.

[suzielou]

I seriously thought about putting check marks by all the ones DS11 gets right instead of what he gets wrong. His science teacher does that and it seems to change the way he looks at it. We have had complete meltdowns over tests that he has missed 1-2 problems on. I have to step back and say, "Seriously, do you realize you are upset over getting an A?" He usually laughs through the tears, realizes how silly he is being, and continues on. Taking Science outside my house has also helped, since he is the youngest in the class.

[suzielou]

Of course today would be a meltdown day. I guess what gets me the most is when they are defending their mistakes so adamantly. Yes, I am aware that 3 squared is 9 and multiplied by pi and 5 is 141.3, but your 3 is yards and your 5 is feet. They want the answer in feet. <indignant stare> I need you to fix it and the next two problems, since those answers depend on the first. <tears, furiously erasing, pity party> Okay, I am glad you fixed it, but you squared 9 to 27. <more crying, more pity party, more erasing> It looks great except for this line right here where it says to round your answer to the nearest whole number. <END OF THE WORLD!!!>

[Dmmetler]

Of course today would be a meltdown day. I guess what gets me the most is when they are defending their mistakes so adamantly. Yes, I am aware that 3 squared is 9 and multiplied by pi and 5 is 141.3, but your 3 is yards and your 5 is feet. They want the answer in feet. <indignant stare> I need you to fix it and the next two problems, since those answers depend on the first. <tears, furiously erasing, pity party> Okay, I am glad you fixed it, but you squared 9 to 27. <more crying, more pity party, more erasing> It looks great except for this line right here where it says to round your answer to the nearest whole number. <END OF THE WORLD!!!>

 

What I've done in the past for such days is to put it aside today, but tomorrow, give DD the paper and ask her to correct it, when she has more distance. I've even, on at least two occasions when she seemed very emotionally vested in her answer, typed in what she did and gave it to her with a red pencil to grade, so it was no longer in her handwriting-and only AFTER she'd corrected it shown her that this was where her mistake came in the prior day.

 

I have to say, I LOVE LoF on the Bridges, where there are automatically multiple attempts provided, all different. I think Fred has done more to convince DD that sometimes it's expected to NOT get it right the first time than anything else, because, after all, if it was, you wouldn't have multiple versions of each Bridge!

[Chrysalis Academy]

This might sound crazy...

 

But, here's how I framed it with math. If you are consistently getting everything right then I am the one who made a mistake by giving you work that was too easy and you aren't getting a chance to learn. If you are consistently getting most of the math wrong then I've made a mistake by giving you math that's too hard. We need to work together to try to find work that has enough challenge so you can make some mistakes because mistakes are how you learn.

 

Modeling is also important. Without being too heavy handed or obvious about it, I'd find ways to work it into conversation when you make a mistake and how it ends up not being a problem or how you use it as to learn.

 

This is *exactly* what I do. I also tell her explicitly, "That little voice in your head that is telling you you are stupid? Tell it to shut the heck up!"

 

DD10 will go into a complete tailspin when she makes what she considers a "stupid" mistake. I tell her, somewhat vulgarly, that it isn't stupid, it's a brain-fart, and we all have them. This morning I found the cheese wrapped in a plastic bag - in the bag drawer. It doesn't mean I'm stupid, I just had a brain fart!

 

We have to have this conversation frequently - at least once a week - because I think I've done a good job in choosing math that is challenging for her, and she's still getting used to it. The math we do now at home, and Latin, are the only things she's ever found difficult, intellectually. I'm happy about that (that she is learning to deal with hard stuff, that is). I didn't find anything hard until I hit the PhD program at MIT, and it just about killed me! :tongue_smilie: I'd like her to learn to deal with it before she gets to that place . . .

[zaichiki]

Of course today would be a meltdown day. I guess what gets me the most is when they are defending their mistakes so adamantly. Yes, I am aware that 3 squared is 9 and multiplied by pi and 5 is 141.3, but your 3 is yards and your 5 is feet. They want the answer in feet. <indignant stare> I need you to fix it and the next two problems, since those answers depend on the first. <tears, furiously erasing, pity party> Okay, I am glad you fixed it, but you squared 9 to 27. <more crying, more pity party, more erasing> It looks great except for this line right here where it says to round your answer to the nearest whole number. <END OF THE WORLD!!!>

 

:lol: Hey, you have my ds! He can do the math, but he's forever missing those little details. And it just kills him! (He "hates math" because of it. :001_rolleyes:)

[kwg]

I did not read all the replies yet. But something that has helped my ds10 a lot (I got it from someone on these boards but changed it a bit) was I told him that in order to have a "worthwhile learning day, one must make at least 10 mistakes each day" But they are not aways school mistakes. His first was knocking into dad causing him to spill coffee on his brother ...lol. But the kid is so hard on himself!!! Even more mistakes is better but at least 10. Minimum. :coolgleamA:

 

He gets a little irate when he doesn't pass that LOF bridge but at least he can count it toward his 10.

[Mukmuk]

We're certainly having a much easier time now with mistakes. I've tried a variety of ways, but the best way is that I focus on, say for math, the working rather than the correct answer. I put little ticks as I follow his logic so that he can see where he eventually made a wrong turn. This helps him retrace and correct his steps. I also compliment him on his learning attitude. I often tell him, and I genuinely believe it, that he makes mistakes because he's just very young for what he's doing. Only cognitive maturity, ie some growing-up, can help. He can try to be super diligent, but it's almost impossible for him to overcome at this age. I also tell him stories of when I was doing this level of work and the common mistakes I made. I think the camaraderie and empathy helps tons in my son's case. I don't think he's less annoyed with mistakes, but he's definitely less annoyed with himself, which is priceless to me :001_smile: .