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My turn for a rant: sending 18monther to school


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So, this might be a slightly culture gap type of thing, but it is really getting me hopping!!!

 

Twice lately, from countries abroad, relatives have said they're sending their 18 month old's to school. They're all so excited and it is a happy time to get his little backpack on and send him to 'school' everyday.

 

Me, I'm like :001_huh:. Why are they calling it school? Then I say maybe it's a matter of words and cultures, but why not call it daycare, nursery, or something other than school. School, to me, is something that 5yr olds go to in Kindergarten or first grade. Preschool is where a 3yr old would go, and PreK is what a 4yr old goes to. They're making their babies grow up so fast and those babies are still in diapers and can't even talk!!!

 

Just call it what it is. It isn't school. Sure, they will learn there, but they would learn at home, too.

 

Rant over. You can disagree and point out my error, but I will probably be too blinded by my feelings to see your way (at least for today).

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If the facility is all play and social then yes, day care.

 

If the facility is educational then yes, school is the correct term.

See, I find room to disagree here because even at a proper daycare, they still have kids count, color, and read. Isn't that learning? Isn't playing with toddlers how they learn?

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I agree with you OP but I don't care what people call it. And I also think much of public school is like glorified daycare. But pointing that out doesn't make anyone feel better. I'd feel like a snoot, and make someone else feel inferior. We all make decisions based on what we can do, what we believe in, or what others have brainwashed us to believe. WHichever it is I don't want to pin labels on anyone.

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So, this might be a slightly culture gap type of thing, but it is really getting me hopping!!!

 

Twice lately, from countries abroad, relatives have said they're sending their 18 month old's to school. They're all so excited and it is a happy time to get his little backpack on and send him to 'school' everyday.

 

Me, I'm like :001_huh:. Why are they calling it school? Then I say maybe it's a matter of words and cultures, but why not call it daycare, nursery, or something other than school. School, to me, is something that 5yr olds go to in Kindergarten or first grade. Preschool is where a 3yr old would go, and PreK is what a 4yr old goes to. They're making their babies grow up so fast and those babies are still in diapers and can't even talk!!!

 

Just call it what it is. It isn't school. Sure, they will learn there, but they would learn at home, too.

 

Rant over. You can disagree and point out my error, but I will probably be too blinded by my feelings to see your way (at least for today).

ITA, except to me, anything before kindergarten is preschool. People started calling it "pre-k" to make it sound better, but it's still just pre-school. :)

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Yeah, I held back from my knee-jerk comment b/c I knew it would sound judgmental, however, call a pig a pig. If it's daycare just say it. I've known now two working moms call it school so that it can look cute and acceptable. Why can't they just say daycare? What if I suddenly referred to my daily work as paid professionals refer to their days... wouldn't it sound weird? Sure we do work, but there are some cultural words and phrases and ... things... that are relevant to office jobs that would sound weird coming from a stay at home mom.

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In my husband's culture, it's all called "nursery school" when they're little. I have come to conclude that it's a good thing for many kids because they are basically ignored at home, and have no toys or anyone to read to them. They seem to do mostly low-key kiddish things there like sing songs and learn to count, and the kids seem to like it and get excited about your uniforms. I am not sure that many kids learn much at home, and it's not necessarily kid friendly. I get your point, by the way. Believe me.

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See, I find room to disagree here because even at a proper daycare, they still have kids count, color, and read. Isn't that learning? Isn't playing with toddlers how they learn?

I think there is a subtle difference between preschool and day care. Lots of people just drop the "pre" part of preschool.

 

And many early ed facilities are rigorously educational. So it is really going to depend on the facility.

 

I do agree with calling simple day care what it is and reserving school (or preschool) for facilities that are more teaching than play.

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In my husband's culture, it's all called "nursery school" when they're little. I have come to conclude that it's a good thing for many kids because they are basically ignored at home, and have no toys or anyone to read to them. They seem to do mostly low-key kiddish things there like sing songs and learn to count, and the kids seem to like it and get excited about your uniforms. I am not sure that many kids learn much at home, and it's not necessarily kid friendly. I get your point, by the way. Believe me.

You know what, you are completely right. In this culture I'm talking about, the kid-friendly level is not what it is in the US. There aren't library story times or community center classes to sign up for. Little ones are not necessarily incorporated into the routine, rather, they're sent off to be taken care of by someone other than Mom. So, thank you for remiding me of that and letting me realize that it probably IS better for the little one to learn and play b/c he most likely isn't at home.

 

eta: it is called nursery school where I'm from, too.

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Yes, it's day care or whatever, but at least here it's a big rite of passage to start at "anaokulu" (preschool). And they do sometimes start them at 18 months, though we waited until age 3 and did it for cultural and language immersion. Silly me didn't even realize that it was really daycare at first since DD was in Montessori in the US and we would come over here for Spring/Summer and put her in anaokulu for a month or two. Since everyone here honestly does look at it as "school" I did too, at first.

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There was another thread about this a while back. My sister works at a daycare and although she never calls it a school, a lot of the parents do. She takes care of tiny little babies.

 

It's not what I would call it, but I can't get worked up past bemusement. I'm sure I do plenty of things other people find quirky too, of course.

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I hear the same thing from relatives, and know someone who used to teach in one of these.It was reading, puzzles, blocks, what many daycares do here.

It is cultural, their homes in most parts are not child friendly(many just don't have the room for all those things, think 800 sq feet avg family size of 5-6), so all those things we take for granted (reading to them, blocks, etc) is not available. When I take english puzzles/toys for nieces/nephews there, it is a big deal as they are EXPENSIVE! like multiply 2 or 3 times the cost here and then lower the family income... you can do the math.

 

When my MIL visited while I was on bedrest for the twins was aghast that my oldest 2 owned 2 bookshelves of books (just fun reading not school books)!! And figured I could fit 2 more drawers or cabinets instead of those book shelves...lol.

 

So I get it, I just don't make any comments and they keep asking me why my 8yo is still not in "school" lol

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My youngest DD has autism and started at an Early Intervention preschool a few months after her 2nd birthday. The EI preschool would take children as young as 18 months, and there was a little girl with Down Syndrome at the school who did start at that age. It was primarily therapeutic & educational in nature rather than play-based so "preschool" is a more accurate term than daycare/nursery.

 

That said, I presume your relatives' children are typically developing and what they are attending is more of a daycare than a school.

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I remember the Kindercare ads a few years ago directed toward parents of 2 year olds. Something to the effect of a pre-preschool class to "get your toddler ready for preschool." I was like this: :confused:

 

Have you noticed that we as a society spend our kids' childhoods constantly preparing for the next thing? Preschool? High school? College? It's a race to nowhere.

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In Asia there are schools for one year old to learn math using the Shichida Method. There were also daycares that use "Your baby can read" and other programs to teach toddlers to read.

 

So although it might be weird to you, some parents (including SAHMs) are really sending their toddlers to school.

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So, thank you for remiding me of that and letting me realize that it probably IS better for the little one to learn and play b/c he most likely isn't at home.

 

 

I think also in some cultures, adults don't really talk to kids, or it's mostly giving orders ("don't touch that!" , "sit down!", "why can't you be quiet?") and there's really nothing to do, and home can even be somewhat dangerous (bathrooms, kitchens, heavy objects not really childproof) so honestly for some kids, it really just is a happier, healthier place. Oftentimes the mothers have sooo much housework, or they go to work and leave their kids with a relative or maid who does all that laundry, cleaning, and cooking, too. So I had to kind of change my initial reaction to the whole thing.

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First, it does not matter to me who calls what "school."

 

Second, I went to a wedding in India and sat next to a 2yo girl who, in the little bit of time we sat together, talked to me and counted to 10 in at least three different languages. She was going to "school." And no, she was not fully potty trained yet. ;)

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I once saw workbooks at a store that were for preparing your child for preschool. :lol:

 

The ones that scared me were the ones for preparing your tot to pass the "gifted" exam to get into the "best" preschools. :001_huh:

 

I didn't know you became gifted by being drilled, but hey, what do I know?

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I have a British coworker who feels he is a very bad parent because he cannot afford to put his 2yo in all day daycare. We work nights and he is home, he is doing things with the 2yo, but his cultural belief is that children over 18mo should not be at home with their parents all day.:confused:

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Isn't it amazing how we all arrived completely clueless on the threshold of Kindergarten - and survived?

 

Except we didn't. Not back in the 70's and before. Our mommies taught us our ABCs, how to count to 10, and how to sit still and listen. They also fed us regular meals and made sure we were bathed and put to bed at a decent time.

 

All the kindergarten teachers had to do was to teach us our phone numbers and get us ready for all day school and first grade academics.

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I agree with the OP about using the term "school" so loosely.... I think it just adds to the "conditioning" of our society to want to institutionalize at a very young age.... our province already has all day kindergarten for 4 year olds. And there is talk about the benefits of sending 2 year olds to school.

It benefits the economy to have our children off in school all day.

 

Its a small pet-peeve, sure.... but it still contributes to this current idea that school for young children is better for them... and that bugs me.

Edited by Momma2Luke
swapped the word "society" for "economy"... economy is what I meant!!
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I agree with you OP but I don't care what people call it. And I also think much of public school is like glorified daycare. But pointing that out doesn't make anyone feel better. I'd feel like a snoot, and make someone else feel inferior. We all make decisions based on what we can do, what we believe in, or what others have brainwashed us to believe. WHichever it is I don't want to pin labels on anyone.

 

There was another thread about this a while back. My sister works at a daycare and although she never calls it a school, a lot of the parents do. She takes care of tiny little babies.

 

It's not what I would call it, but I can't get worked up past bemusement. I'm sure I do plenty of things other people find quirky too, of course.

 

:iagree::iagree: with both of these.

I don't personally call it 'school', but whatever. :)

It reminds me, people ask if I 'do school' with Pink. I'm like... no... And then they react as though I'm holding her back. Maybe they think 'school' is necessary for her to learn her colors, how to count, and ABCs. ;)

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The only time it ever bugged me was when a certain relative liked to point out to Ds that his younger cousin was "going to school" and she bought him a "school backpack" ( and pointed it out) and talked a whole lot about cousin b "going to school". Thankfully even at 5 Ds was smart enough to point out that his cousin was 2, didn't need a backpack, and was going to daycare. The bothersome thing was that the relative meant to encourage Ds to want to also go to school...which is totally obnoxious, of course.

 

So my association with toddlers and "going to school" is just tainted- I hate it being called that but fully admit to having issues! :D

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Except we didn't. Not back in the 70's and before. Our mommies taught us our ABCs, how to count to 10, and how to sit still and listen. They also fed us regular meals and made sure we were bathed and put to bed at a decent time.

 

All the kindergarten teachers had to do was to teach us our phone numbers and get us ready for all day school and first grade academics.

Shoot! We had to know our address and phone numbers. Well, at least my db did in NY. I started k'er in Italy so it was different. I remember my mom working with db the summer before he stared K'er.

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:iagree::iagree: with both of these.

I don't personally call it 'school', but whatever. :)

It reminds me, people ask if I 'do school' with Pink. I'm like... no... And then they react as though I'm holding her back. Maybe they think 'school' is necessary for her to learn her colors, how to count, and ABCs. ;)

 

Ha! I recently took a trip "home" to visit my parents and grandparents (and lots of other family) and people knew I homeschooled and would ask what I was working on with my just turned 2 yo. I was flabbergasted.

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I remember the Kindercare ads a few years ago directed toward parents of 2 year olds. Something to the effect of a pre-preschool class to "get your toddler ready for preschool." I was like this: :confused:

 

Have you noticed that we as a society spend our kids' childhoods constantly preparing for the next thing? Preschool? High school? College? It's a race to nowhere.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: I even felt this as a kid. Every year they would talk about how hard the next year was going to be, how hard jr. High would be, then high school. I kept falling for it to.

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I agree with the OP about using the term "school" so loosely.... I think it just adds to the "conditioning" of our society to want to institutionalize at a very young age.... our province already has all day kindergarten for 4 year olds. And there is talk about the benefits of sending 2 year olds to school.

It benefits society to have our children off in school all day.

 

Its a small pet-peeve, sure.... but it still contributes to this current idea that school for young children is better for them... and that bugs me.

Yes! That's what's bugging me.

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:iagree::iagree::iagree: I even felt this as a kid. Every year they would talk about how hard the next year was going to be' date=' how hard jr. High would be, then high school. I kept falling for it to.[/quote']

 

And then they'd say, "Just wait until you are in the REAL WORLD." Well as it turned out, the real world extended a lot more grace and more respect than high school ever did. I found the real world a lot easier to navigate.

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And then they'd say, "Just wait until you are in the REAL WORLD." Well as it turned out, the real world extended a lot more grace and more respect than high school ever did. I found the real world a lot easier to navigate.

That is so true. And I have learned so much about education and child-rearing in these last 2+ yrs homeschooling because, you know what, the two things are intertwined. You raise your child and you teach him so much. Of course you need to teach him more than just life skills, and that is where algebra and chemistry come in, but in the big picture, real life is a lot more like homeschool than like middle school!

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And then they'd say, "Just wait until you are in the REAL WORLD." Well as it turned out, the real world extended a lot more grace and more respect than high school ever did. I found the real world a lot easier to navigate.

 

Exactly! When people say something like this now, I tell them that my kids are living their lives right now. This is it. Childhood is not just preparation for adulthood. It IS life.

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In my husband's culture, it's all called "nursery school" when they're little. I have come to conclude that it's a good thing for many kids because they are basically ignored at home, and have no toys or anyone to read to them. They seem to do mostly low-key kiddish things there like sing songs and learn to count, and the kids seem to like it and get excited about your uniforms. I am not sure that many kids learn much at home, and it's not necessarily kid friendly. I get your point, by the way. Believe me.

 

:iagree:

 

My son attended a coop nursery school. It was not "day care" nor was it academic. Instead it was an incredibly rich experience where children got lots of opportunities for creative play, had opportunities to art activities, little hands on science activities, had a little "rug time" hearing a story, and made friendships that endure.

 

Nursey school can be pretty cool.

 

Bill

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:iagree:

 

My son attended a coop nursery school. It was not "day care" nor was it academic. Instead it was an incredibly rich experience where children got lots of opportunities for creative play, had opportunities to art activities, little hands on science activities, had a little "rug time" hearing a story, and made friendships that endure.

 

Nursey school can be pretty cool.

 

Bill

 

Hey, Bill, that sounds exactly like what my 2 yr old does all day without nursery school/daycare/preschool!

 

Her life is *filled* with creative play (dolls, toy kitchen, toy ponies, sheet "tents," dress-up clothes), art activities (crayons, scissors, glue, pencils, coloring books, play-doh, clay, stickers, colored paper, chalk, sand, etc.), science activities (gardening, cooking, measuring, taking care of animals, mixing things, tagging along on siblings' science experiments), floor/rug time, hearing stories, building with blocks, and playing with math manipulatives. She even has friendships with other little ones her age.

 

The best part is that I don't have to send her away for the experience. I don't have to plan it, either. We have the materials around and she has the motivation and interest (and older siblings for inspiration). She's just playing, living life, and interacting with people. I love homeschooling!

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Hey, Bill, that sounds exactly like what my 2 yr old does all day without nursery school/daycare/preschool!

 

Her life is *filled* with creative play (dolls, toy kitchen, toy ponies, sheet "tents," dress-up clothes), art activities (crayons, scissors, glue, pencils, coloring books, play-doh, clay, stickers, colored paper, chalk, sand, etc.), science activities (gardening, cooking, measuring, taking care of animals, mixing things, tagging along on siblings' science experiments), floor/rug time, hearing stories, building with blocks, and playing with math manipulatives. She even has friendships with other little ones her age.

 

The best part is that I don't have to send her away for the experience. I don't have to plan it, either. We have the materials around and she has the motivation and interest (and older siblings for inspiration). She's just playing, living life, and interacting with people. I love homeschooling!

 

Well, our preschool was filled with more play options than we could possibly fit in our home. And we have an only child so having playmates was important for us. And the collective work of 20 families plus a teacher who has a doctorate in child development meant the number of activities the children had to enjoy was far more than we could have pulled off alone.

 

The best part is my son, my wife, and I made lasting friendships. Our life was much richer for the experience than it would have been otherwise.

 

Bill

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:iagree:

 

My son attended a coop nursery school. It was not "day care" nor was it academic. Instead it was an incredibly rich experience where children got lots of opportunities for creative play, had opportunities to art activities, little hands on science activities, had a little "rug time" hearing a story, and made friendships that endure.

 

Nursey school can be pretty cool.

 

Bill

That's a great experience, and it's nice to hear of ideal settings like that. I still don't know that, based on what I know now and how I feel now, I would send my 3 yr old 3-5 hours a day to a nursery or preschool.

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That's a great experience, and it's nice to hear of ideal settings like that. I still don't know that, based on what I know now and how I feel now, I would send my 3 yr old 3-5 hours a day to a nursery or preschool.

 

Ours was a little unusual in that parents each worked one day a week in the classroom and we all participated behind the scenes to run the nursery school so a real family feeling developed. It was not about dropping ones child off to strangers at a "for profit" business.

 

As I said previously we made enduring friendships there and my son had a great experience.

 

Bill

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The best part is my son, my wife, and I made lasting friendships. Our life was much richer for the experience than it would have been otherwise.

 

Bill

 

:iagree: well-run parent co-op nursery/pre-schools are great for the parents and kids. We have waiting lists here for the well-run ones.

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My brother (in the States) put his dd in "school" (daycare really;) ) at 6 weeks old. He insisted that his dd went to school & when she finished in late June this year, the "school" had a graduation ceremony, with caps & gowns, for all the kids who were heading off to kindergarten in the fall. That I felt was a bit of overkill. Here in NZ kids go to kindy from ages 3-5. They begin PS on their 5th birthday. Kindy is a play-based, developmental program, while PS is full day, real school. We, also, have Play Centre, that is for kids from birth-6yo. Play Centre is play-based & run by parents.

 

Growing up in the States, I can remember that my siblings & I went to Nursery School at age 4. My youngest brother went to preschool at age 3, but my mother was back working again, where as she was home when the rest of us were young. The only graduation ceremonies we participated in were for highschool & university. Here in NZ there is no graduation until the tertiary level. IMHO graduation ceremonies should only be at the highschool+ levels, not preschool, kindergarten, 6th grade, 8th grade, etc.

 

An early start to "school" is not always a good thing. Dd started kindy at age 4 1/2. Ds#1 started kindy at age 2 3/4. Ds#2 started kindy at age 3 1/2. Of all my dc, ds#1 started school the youngest & should have, in hindsight, waited until 6yo. He likes to tell people that he had 5 years at school, before leaving school at age 7 1/2. :lol: I remember my grandmother asking me why I put ds#1 in school so young & why did I think it was a good thing. That should have given me a clue to relook at our decision.

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That's a great experience, and it's nice to hear of ideal settings like that. I still don't know that, based on what I know now and how I feel now, I would send my 3 yr old 3-5 hours a day to a nursery or preschool.

How is a nursery aged co-op class any different than a once or twice a week preschool/nursery school?

Similar to Bill, our son is involved in our co-op's nursery "school". They start the day with songs, puppets, books, and prayer; after that, they play together on the playground. It has been a wonderful experience. Yes, I'm with him during that time because it is my assignment in the co-op - but the parents who are teaching the upper level academic classes within the co-op aren't there with their children.

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How is a nursery aged co-op class any different than a once or twice a week preschool/nursery school?

They're not so different. That type of set up is harmless b/c it's a short time, and oftent he parent stays.

 

What my gripe was about was sending their kids 5+ hours a day when the child is 18 months old and calling it "school". I think it was the terminology that really had me going. Just call it preschool, nursery, daycare, or something else. School is what kids go to when they're 5 or 6.

 

(I'm slightly off my rant now and have cooled down.)

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