Dh going back to school. Advice please....

[Clpretzel]

My dh is considering going back to school full time to get his JD. Has anyone had any experiences like this? I'd love to hear any advice.

[Liz CA]

Dh went back - not for a JD but the one thing I noticed is that it seems a long time at the beginning and then you are through all of a sudden.

Sort of like "this too shall pass" and it did.

[SonshineLearner]

My dad went through when I was 12yrs old. Seriously a hellish 3yrs; I think it takes 4yrs now. I'd work and put my kids in public school to make the finances easier, I think. (no working for a first year law student) It's like a MIA dad for 3yrs.... My dad's great and he's used the degree for work all these years later, but it was hard and took a toll.

A fun fact is, he went when he was told that he wouldn't have a job at the college he taught at... if he homeschooled us. So... off to get a JD with Constitutional law as the specialty..

Night :)

[butterflymommy]

DH is currently getting his MBA and then plans to get his JD all while working full time in an extremely high pressure job (plus a 2nd job in his home business on weekends) and paying tuition out of pocket. I'm pretty upset about it as he's already earning in the top 3% of incomes and we are ok financially. I'm concerned that all the energy and time he's putting into school will get him fired. He was constantly busy before he went back to school and now he's insanely busy. I'm pretty resentful about it though he keeps saying he's doing it for everyone's benefit. I'm also upset because he should be concerned about our son's college prep plus the tuition bills we'll soon be facing for HS and college... he just seems so checked out and self absorbed about the whole thing. He is either working, asleep, or working on homework. He barely interacts with us.

 

When he does interact with us it's to pontificate about how amazing he is for going back to school and getting straight As and writing brilliant papers.

 

I'm just keeping my mouth shut about it.

Edited November 4, 2012 by butterflymommy

[Melissa in Australia]

for this dumb person (me) could you please tell me what a JD is. thank you

[bettyandbob]

for this dumb person (me) could you please tell me what a JD is. thank you

 

Juris Doctorate. It is a law degree.

[bettyandbob]

I assume he has thought about employment prospects. I would only consider this if I was an engineer and going into patent law.

 

There are schools that have 4 year night programs. So, one could work part or full time while doing this--hopefully, in the field. Many patent attorneys have done this.

[LaxMom]

Dh went back - not for a JD but the one thing I noticed is that it seems a long time at the beginning and then you are through all of a sudden.

Sort of like "this too shall pass" and it did.

 

Yup, that's how it went here, too.

[Amira]

My husband got a JD when we first got married and then went back full time for an LLM and PhD almost ten years later. Honestly, I like it when he's in school, particularly in comparison to being an attorney. Even though law school can be rough, he still had more control of his own time than he did later.

 

We moved into student family housing to save money which was weird in some ways, but really good in other ways. Even though many of our neighbors were younger than us, it was helpful to be living around people who were in the same boat.

 

It's a tough market right now to find a job as a new attorney, and it's usually a huge investment of both money and time. Just be sure it's worth it.

[Joanne]

Looking at the ages of your family, I have one suggestion. Please don't be offended at the suggestion. It's not meant to assume anything negative.

 

I'd encourage you and DH to remember that your kids are too young to understand both the short AND long term ramifications of this. Remind yourselves that they can't be (fairly) expected to honor Dad's need to study under optimal conditions. Dad (and you, in support) will need to arrange study times and settings so that Dad is responsible for study, and not try to make the kids act in developmentally more mature ways.

 

My kids were all double digits ages when I went back to school. They had a bit more understanding than your kids, and less need to be sensory seeking, noisy, needy, and messy.

 

I'm all for parents getting or finishing an education, but they need to do it within the context of their current living reality.

 

Good luck to him and you!

[G5052]

Looking at the ages of your family, I have one suggestion. Please don't be offended at the suggestion. It's not meant to assume anything negative.

 

I'd encourage you and DH to remember that your kids are too young to understand both the short AND long term ramifications of this. Remind yourselves that they can't be (fairly) expected to honor Dad's need to study under optimal conditions. Dad (and you, in support) will need to arrange study times and settings so that Dad is responsible for study, and not try to make the kids act in developmentally more mature ways.

 

My kids were all double digits ages when I went back to school. They had a bit more understanding than your kids, and less need to be sensory seeking, noisy, needy, and messy.

 

I'm all for parents getting or finishing an education, but they need to do it within the context of their current living reality.

 

Good luck to him and you!

 

In my line of work, I am perpetually going to school, and I've been taking classes here and there for a decade while homeschooling, working, and everything else.

 

It was *very* different when mine were little. I remember one time when I was working away in my home office, and my then 6 y.o. pushed a note under the door (written in age-appropriate spelling of course): "I miss my Mommy. Love, X." Even working early mornings, and late nights most of the time, it was hard on them because I was tired and of course had crunch times. They of course struggled with the idea of not interrupting me.

 

Now as teens, they barely flinch. There are times when I am both taking classes and working from home with my door closed, and they are fine. As long as I eat meals with them and check every few hours, they barely need me during the day. I do all of the driving and waiting at their activities, and we talk a lot in the van about their thoughts and dreams. And I'm not as tired and stressed.

 

Naturally sometimes families do what they have to do, but there is more of a price to be paid when they are young. I've always had to work, and the schooling never ends in my field. So we hung in there.

Edited November 4, 2012 by GVA

[PentecostalMom]

My dh was active duty military and after being injured while deployed, had to go back to school after his enlistment ended. He got a degree, worked a term job because he could not find other work, and now is going back yet again. Our benefit is that he does not have to work while he is going to school. He has GI Bill that will pay and in addition, we will get some sort of grants. Those two plus income from our rental house will keep us afloat. He is going for his Law Enforcement Certification now and it will only be six months, January-June.

 

My advice is this.

1. Keep your eye on the goal and don't get bogged down in the "this is hard, this stinks, dh is never available" rut. That may be true for a short time, and feels more looming at the start. It will end, just hang in there.

2. Make time for your family. Set aside time once a week or so, more often if possible for family yime. A couple of hours works wonders. Make homemade pizzas, do a puzzle, play with legos, read aloud, take a walk. Something to keep you interactive as a family and take the focus off of school/work etc. for a little bit.

4. If possible, have each child, AND YOU, have a personal slot of time with dad each month. My dd's take turn having daddy/daughter dates and mother/daughter dates. My older dd's last "date" with her dad was sharing a pint of ice cream, working on a Sudoku book, and building a railroad with legos. We did that after he siblings were asleep and I took some time to take a long shower and organize some hs materials.

 

These things are not easy to implement, but they have kept us sane and our family unified. Dh was actually gone more when he was military because of training and deployments. We made it through all of that and I expect this to be no different.

 

ETA: My older ds needed his dad much more when he was a teen than the littles do now. Dh was deployed as ds hit his teen years and it was very rough on us. I know that some say it is easier when the dc are teens, but in ds's case, this was not true.

Edited November 4, 2012 by PentecostalMom

[Chris in VA]

Dh went for his doctorate when my boys were small (preschool-1st grade). He worked part time and so did I, so it worked well for us. Yes, we were poor, but we made it fine. He had scholarships to help.

He actually had more time than he did at any other time in our lives. He was able to be home with my youngest son while I taught preschool, then my boys both came with me to the school. It was great, actually. He has pretty good boundaries. The hardest part in our lives started when he became the head honcho at a church (where we are now). That was after the degree.

[learningmama]

We are there right now. DH will graduate with his JD in May. I don't have time to write much right now, but feel free to PM me.

[Giraffe]

DH is back in school for his PhD. Honestly, it's hard, for both DD and me. We never saw him when we were in the same house. Now that we're halfway around the world, I think we may actually see more of him than we did last year, thanks to Skype and FaceTime. He can talk to us from the lab, from school, wherever he happens to be, and the time change makes it so that DD is home and not in school when he's up.

 

What Joanne and others said is true - it's hard on the littles. DD was 4 when DH started and she honestly didn't understand where he was and why he wasn't around. I thought it would be easier since she was little and it wasn't.

[Clpretzel]

This is really helpful.

 

The prospect is definitely scarey. Dh is good at boundaries and setting his own schedule. He has worked long hours in jobs that don't sleep (ministry and high level management.). I wish there was a way to know how it would compare. We're used to living on a small amount (but kids activities are important to me and braces are coming in that time.). We would also be moving a lot closer to very helpful family... And the kids would be living right near their grandparents for several years.

 

If you have any more advice, keep it coming.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Clpretzel

[learningmama]

This is really helpful.

 

The prospect is definitely scared. Dh is good at boundaries and setting his own schedule. He has worked long hours in jobs that don't sleep (ministry and high level management.). I wish there was a way to know how it would compare. We're used to living on a small amount (but kids activities are important to me and braces are coming in that time.). We would also be moving a lot loser to very helpful family... And the kids would be living right near their grandparents for several years.

 

If you have any more advice, keep it coming.

 

Some thoughts/considerations:

- Living very near the grandparents should be very helpful

- Law School is VERY expensive. Not just the tuition, books, and living expenses, but the bar applications ($600+), Barbri study for the bar exam ($3000+), MPRE exam (around $60) student bar assocaition fees, etc. Would you or dh work during this? Do you have savings/help from others to cover some costs? Is the area you would be living expensive?

- Does dh have any legal connections? This helps a lot. Networking can take up lots of time.

- Take a look into the legal market where you want to end up. You will hear about much "doom and gloom" because of the economy. Law in general is VERY competitive. Taking the right classes, knowing the right people, having the right grades, having the right undergrad degree...these are all little details that come up. DH and I have "wasted" the most time discussing all these details and frustrations he has come across.

 

My dh often goes overboard and at times law school has been 24/7. We live close to his school so we have been able to spend a good amount of time with him. Work load ebbs and flows though. Sometimes we can all go do something fun, other times he literally sits at his computer for 12+ hours a day reading and writing.

[zimom]

....

Edited November 4, 2012 by zimom

[2squared]

My dh is an attorney. My advice before going down this route is to seriously look at job prospects and working conditions in the field he wants to go into. Also, seriously (as in with eyes wide open) look at cost vs school ranking vs job prospects. And, like PPs mentioned, be realistic what life will look like while your dh is in law school.

 

First, law school as the spouse was miserable. My dh studied 24/7, and he needed silence for studying. He couldn't even handle me watching TV or listening to the radio. To cope I worked part-time nights and weekends in addition to my full-time job. Getting through the first and second year with young children would be very, very difficult.

 

Second, law school ranking means a big deal for future job prospects. My dh went to a lower priced school that specialized in graduating prosecutors and public defenders. While we liked the lower price of the school, the salary the grads made after graduating was low. My dh still makes far less than I made 7 years ago with only a 4 year degree and one full-time job.

 

Third, depending on which field he goes into, work-life balance can be awful. My dh right now does mostly prosecuting, but he also has a private component. He hates the private component. He is judged/paid based on hours billed, and he is constantly stressed about tracking, justifying, and generating his hours. He has more work than he could possible do, but the environment is stressful. He loves the prosecuting piece, but that job isn't enough to pay the bills. He needs to work part-time with his private practice and part-time in the Air Force Reserves in addition to full-time prosecution. Yes, I am bitter that he works this much and still doesn't make as much as I did 7 years ago with my B.S. and one full-time job.

 

My dh's tiny law firm (2 person office) receives unsolicited resumes from across the country for jobs that don't exist. Competition is tight, and has been tight for a long time. My dh is actively looking for new employment, and he may not find anything. We know of a couple jobs coming open in the next year, but we also know he will be competing with a large pool of applicants.

 

FWIW, dh was paid very well as an active duty JAG in the Air Force. I think the cut-off age is 35yo for JAGs, and once again, admittance is competitive. Dh loved the work, and I enjoyed the lifestyle as the spouse.

Edited November 4, 2012 by 2squared

[butterflymommy]

 

Fortunately he did not have the employment issues that are prevalent now. Really look at what is happening in your area. JDs coming out in our area can not find work, even with connections. Very few firms are hiring associates, real estate, construction litigators and other specialties are being laid off from firms even with experience. Fortunately my husband's specialty is in high demand, but he also knows not to let it be his only area.

 

True. Be careful what specialty you go into and even then give it serious thought. At the moment there are a glut of JDs on the market. And with a lot of legal work becoming automated or outsourced overseas the situation likely won't get better. DH doesn't plan to work for a firm, he just wants to "validate" the knowledge he's accrued over the years and save his company money on legal fees.

 

The one exception to this is if your DH is a minority. A lot of corporations and firms will snatch up minority lawyers coming out of law school to make themselves look more diverse.

[Pink and Green Mom]

I practiced corporate and regulatory work at a large, top tier Washington, DC firm for 8 years.

 

I have no idea what school your husband is interested in, but my advice is this. Unless he is going to a top 10 law school, graduates in the top 5 percent of his class, and will come out of school 100 percent debt free, do not do it.

 

We have a family friend who just graduated #2 in his class from Harvard. He has a job clerking for a federal judge (I should mention said friend's father is a federal appellate judge if you catch my drift). Several dozen of his classmates (again, from Harvard Law School) have no jobs.

 

Law school can cost well over $150k. Loan repayment is like a mortgage, but with no house. Yes, the big firms will pay you big bucks. When I left, the starting salary was $150,000 (this was 10 years ago). You are required to bill a minimum of 2000 hours per year, which if I remember correctly is billing 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks out of the year. However, to bill 2000 hours, you typically have to work 2500+ hours. As a first and second year associate, I don't think I ever came home before 9 or 10 pm. And that is what is expected of everyone, whether you are 25 and single or 45 with a family and children. My male colleauges would be so upset that their infants and toddlers didn't recognize them and would scream when they saw them.

 

Last I read (within the past year) most of the top tier law firms were laying off many, many attorneys.

[J-rap]

My husband went back to school to get his JD when we had two children and I was pregnant with #3. So, they were a little younger than yours. We moved into an apt. that was even cheaper than married student housing, and lived like poor students. We took out school loans which also covered our rent, and I did some editing work out of our home part-time. My husband donated plasma to pay for diapers. :)

 

We actually didn't mind that lifestyle, and had fun. It wasn't too stressful for us, but a big reason for that is that my husband had amazing studying skills. He could take a thick book and know how to cover all the major points in the whole text in one afternoon. I barely remember seeing him study. He was a 4.0 student and the president of the law school. If his mind didn't work that way, it probably would have been a lot harder on our personal lives.

 

It worked for us because of our unique circumstances and personalities, but I think for most people it would probably be much harder. Still, you do what you have to do.

[Clpretzel]

We would be moving several hours away to a state school ( in the top 100) that costs less than 20k. I don't know if he would get any aid. This past year's income was very low because he's the director of a non-profit. We have two residual income sources that we would try to expand on (a rental and an online business that are already solvent) and I would do contract work.

 

We would want to move back where we are now, and practice law for a time. He's insanely networked already and respected in our city.

 

His ultimate goals are not actually practicing law, but the kind of positions that are often held by people that have JDs or PHDs in their background. This is the tricky point; We're trying to think about 20 years from now.

 

 

His past experiences are in ministry, elected office, business, and leading a non-profit. He's a skilled and fast writer and loves public speaking. We're not risk-averse. Basically he wants to expand on his ability to lead in our community and perhaps beyond.

 

To be honest, out of the three options were considering, in some ways this seems like the easiest, though it feels somewhat indirect. I think he would love law school. He thinks like an attorney more than anyone I've ever met (including attorneys.)

 

Some of the appeal to this route is secondary for me: children living near their grandparents for 3 years; living somewhere for several years where we know fewer people and he is committed to fewer extraneous committees/boards.

 

Our current plan is to have him take the LSAT and see how well he does. At the same time we're watching to see how the other two options develop. This option is probably a long shot (but the other options feel that way too.) Then there's the fourth option of just getting a decent paying job based on his already substantial work experience and trying to think a little bit less like a visionary (though that seems like the least probable.)

 

Ahhhhhh!!!! It's all so exciting and confusing.

 

Im loving all of your advice, especially the negatives.

[Mama Anna]

DH is presently working on a PhD. For us, it's a long road - he started his second Master's in 2007 and probably won't finish this degree until 2015 or so.

 

The Downsides:

We're poor. We live in student housing. If we had any debt, finances would be impossible, even with the small amount of help we're getting from extended family. I'm working a very small amount on the side while being a SAHM and homeschooler. "Dates" - as in, meals away from home - happen about twice a year. (We don't live near any family at all.) Dh often feels as if he's not really gotten anywhere in life because he's still in school at his age. It can be really depressing to fill out a Medicaid form and list 3 Master's Degrees (I have one, too) in the household with such a low income.

 

The Upsides:

We're poor. We can't buy stuff, so we learn how to make stuff, fix it, and do without it. We live in student housing, on a very family-friendly campus that has way more green space than any place we could reasonably afford. The kids can be out of my sight outside and I still feel safe about them as long as they're following the rules. Its a safe, fairly secluded neighborhood. Because of our lack of debt, dh can work less than full-time and we get along. This gives him an amount of flexibility that has been great for our dc. He can't always drop everything, but studying at home means he's here for most meals and can take a break to appreciate special stuff we're doing.

 

A couple of things to consider:

Moving close to grandparents for several years (as long as you get along well with them) could be a wonderful experience for your kids that they'll always appreciate.

Do make sure that if you'll accumulate debt with this, that you'll have sure employment to clear it later.

One thing that I'd recommend that we did: Make a priority list so you know where the JD fits in. If things get hard, what goes first? For example, which is more important, homeschooling or the degree? It helps to not make emotional decisions in the midst of the "I can't take this anymore!!!!" stress that seems to come around every once in a while.

 

HTH!

Mama Anna

[2squared]

living somewhere for several years where we know fewer people and he is committed to fewer extraneous committees/boards.

 

Not to be a downer, but law school is full of extra committees and commitments. My dh worked his butt off in the classroom and out. Out of the classroom involved moot court, law review, and many other things that I can't remember. He worked for a couple professors and studied like crazy to stay at the top of the class where he could earn tuition waivers and make more connections with professors and professionals. Having good connections with other students also seemed critical to making it through.

 

I would guess that if your dh is a mover and shaker in your current community, he will be the same at the law school.

 

By the way, I get the community pressures. We live a similar life. Everyone is after my dh to volunteer everywhere, and our family is high-profile in our little town. I often feel like we live under a microscope.

[LittleIzumi]

Looking at the ages of your family, I have one suggestion. Please don't be offended at the suggestion. It's not meant to assume anything negative.

 

I'd encourage you and DH to remember that your kids are too young to understand both the short AND long term ramifications of this. Remind yourselves that they can't be (fairly) expected to honor Dad's need to study under optimal conditions. Dad (and you, in support) will need to arrange study times and settings so that Dad is responsible for study, and not try to make the kids act in developmentally more mature ways.

 

My kids were all double digits ages when I went back to school. They had a bit more understanding than your kids, and less need to be sensory seeking, noisy, needy, and messy.

 

I'm all for parents getting or finishing an education, but they need to do it within the context of their current living reality.

 

Good luck to him and you!

 

Hubby is working full-time and in school full-time. He goes to school to study and do homework. He usually stays late after his classes or goes to school on a day off to get his work done. He can't study at home. It's working well so far (in the third year).