Article on SWB in today’s Washington Post magazine

[Mrs Mungo]

I thought the reason she stopped speaking at the HEAV convention was because of a dispute about the recording and distribution of her talks. Maybe there was more to it that I didn't hear about. I know the NC people won't invite her because she's not the right kind of Christian. :glare:

 

Yeah, that's why I don't go to the NCHE conference. BO-ring.

 

Ah, the wisdom of Monty Python: Judean People's Front vs. People's Front of Judea.

 

I *always* think of this during these conversations. :lol:

[G5052]

Nothing new, but I was impressed the Post would publish something like this, although I've seen other articles like this in the last few years that seek to show the diversity of the homeschooling community. I'm glad that an internationally-known paper was willing to bring this to light.

 

And no, I haven't been to a homeschool convention in ages. I've always leaned towards homeschooling as choice, not a mandate. And I don't necessarily look and act like a homeschooling mom, at least not what they think is a homeschooling mom. Poor me!

[Candid]

I thought the reason she stopped speaking at the HEAV convention was because of a dispute about the recording and distribution of her talks. Maybe there was more to it that I didn't hear about. I know the NC people won't invite her because she's not the right kind of Christian. :glare:

 

A friend of mine is a NCHE board member and she's explicitly told me that NCHE does not user religious standards in choosing speakers. She even implied they've taken some hits over that.

 

I haven't asked about SWB, but I'll see if I can remember to. (I'm afraid my big concern to her this last year was about why they had a grain mill company in the exhibit hall: I want ed vendors, but she says that surveys indicated some folks want that sort of thing.)

[cathmom]

A friend of mine is a NCHE board member and she's explicitly told me that NCHE does not user religious standards in choosing speakers. She even implied they've taken some hits over that.

 

.)

All evidence to the contrary. :tongue_smilie:

[Mrs Mungo]

A friend of mine is a NCHE board member and she's explicitly told me that NCHE does not user religious standards in choosing speakers. She even implied they've taken some hits over that.

 

I haven't asked about SWB, but I'll see if I can remember to. (I'm afraid my big concern to her this last year was about why they had a grain mill company in the exhibit hall: I want ed vendors, but she says that surveys indicated some folks want that sort of thing.)

 

You can look at their speakers from last year here: http://conference.nche.com/archive/2012/index-48843.html

 

There was not a SINGLE speaker from last year who is not a professed conservative Christian.

 

Some of the speaking topics:

Thursday Keynote. How to Prepare for an Economic Crisis of Biblical Proportion (note from me: no political agenda, REALLY?)

The Busy Homeschool Mom’s Guide™ to Romance

Ideas Have Consequences: Why Worldviews Really, Really Matter

Ideas Have Histories: Where Postmodernism Came From (note from me: you don't think this carries a distinct anti-intellectual agenda?)

 

NCHE has a VERY obvious and distinct political agenda.

[JumpyTheFrog]

A friend of mine is a NCHE board member and she's explicitly told me that NCHE does not user religious standards in choosing speakers.

 

I used to go to a church that had three families with NCHE board members. This church was pro-Vision Forum, pro-patriarchy, and pro-Michael Pearl. The church considered themselves better than all those "lukewarm" Christians that let their adult children date, let daughters live in the dorms, or that dare to use contraception. Don't forget all the "bad" people that let their kids go to Sunday school!

 

While your friend may not be like these people, if board members can stay in and support a church like that for years, I find it hard to believe their theology wouldn't lead them to reject many speakers.

[Cafdog]

 

When I first read it, I could not believe that someone had written a book that explained my hope, my thoughts and my desire for homeschooling. I was ecstatic to find a resource that explained and gave a roadmap for what I wanted, desired but couldn't articulate or flesh out.

 

Just some thoughts. I am possibly very different in lifestyle/theology than SWB, but I am completely a thankful fan of her work and leadership of classical homeschooling!

 

 

 

My feelings exactly. I found reading TWTM a life-changing experience. It really gave me the courage to step out of the PS system, and it didn't scare me off with lots of religious dogma. (Most of my local HS'ers are very religious. I'm an atheist. I felt very odd-man-out.) I am so very grateful to SWB!

 

Thanks, OP - for sharing this article. Really enjoyed it.

[Candid]

All evidence to the contrary. :tongue_smilie:

 

You can look at their speakers from last year here: http://conference.nche.com/archive/2012/index-48843.html

 

There was not a SINGLE speaker from last year who is not a professed conservative Christian.

 

Some of the speaking topics:

Thursday Keynote. How to Prepare for an Economic Crisis of Biblical Proportion (note from me: no political agenda, REALLY?)

The Busy Homeschool Mom’s Guide™ to Romance

Ideas Have Consequences: Why Worldviews Really, Really Matter

Ideas Have Histories: Where Postmodernism Came From (note from me: you don't think this carries a distinct anti-intellectual agenda?)

 

NCHE has a VERY obvious and distinct political agenda.

 

I used to go to a church that had three families with NCHE board members. This church was pro-Vision Forum, pro-patriarchy, and pro-Michael Pearl. The church considered themselves better than all those "lukewarm" Christians that let their adult children date, let daughters live in the dorms, or that dare to use contraception. Don't forget all the "bad" people that let their kids go to Sunday school!

 

While your friend may not be like these people, if board members can stay in and support a church like that for years, I find it hard to believe their theology wouldn't lead them to reject many speakers.

 

 

The original quote I responded to was:

 

I know the NC people won't invite her because she's not the right kind of Christian.

 

In my view what has been provided thus far is pretty circumstantial. I remember Susan coming (or maybe it was Jessie) at some point in the past so I know they've been at NCHE in the past. How long ago, I don't know. (I found this online: http://kolseth.net/_HbG/_sitestuff/1259300984/uploads/NCHE_Conference_Program.pdf They are not listed as speakers but vendors. This maybe what I remember, I don't know.)

 

What the evidence that has been provided thus far is that some board members are conservative Christians, gasp! The NCHE has a huge board and it certainly doesn't surprise me that a state wide board in NC would have conservative Christians on it. To adequately represent the home schoolers in NC this would be a necessity.

 

OR that last year's key note speakers were conservative Christians. I served on a nonprofit board that had banquet fund raiser every year. Finding one speaker to satisfy everyone is impossible. You must instead find speakers who will bring in large crowds so your event will be successful. Again, this is pretty circumstantial and does not get to what I was responding to above.

 

Further let's assume that there are five key note speakers (probably less overall since some are husband wife teams). So in the last decade that is a total of 50 speakers. How many of those should represent what segments of the home school population in NC? OR should they all represent what the majority of conference attenders expect?

 

And how big is the speaker pool? I can tell you from my nonprofit experience, that it is huge. Think of every curriculum vendor, book writer, blog poster, etc. SWB would probably only come to each conference once or maybe even less just on selecting each speaker with the same odds as every other speaker. Heck she might not come at all, the pool is so huge and there are probably around 50 -75 large conventions in the US each year.

 

At NCHE if you spread your net wider to the smaller level speakers you have a lot more speakers and a lot more diversity (although somewhat limited I expect because some proportion of these are cheap local speakers).

 

Does anyone have evidence that SWB is not invited because of religion? Something on NCHE's website or letterhead or is this just talk?

[Mrs Mungo]

PHP has been to NCHE as vendors, not speakers. The evidence shows that there were zero non-conservative Christians as *speakers* over the last few years. Do you have evidence that more liberal Christians or even (gasp!) non-Christians have been *speakers* (not vendors) at a NCHE conference? The conference is not representing homeschoolers in NC, it is representing a small portion of them. It certainly is not representing me. I was present at the GHC in NC when all the controversy broke out *because* of the perceived liberality of SWB's views. So, I reject the notion that the far right is not trying to control the conversation.

[Candid]

PHP has been to NCHE as vendors, not speakers. The evidence shows that there were zero non-conservative Christians as *speakers* over the last few years. Do you have evidence that more liberal Christians or even (gasp!) non-Christians have been *speakers* (not vendors) at a NCHE conference? The conference is not representing homeschoolers in NC, it is representing a small portion of them. It certainly is not representing me. I was present at the GHC in NC when all the controversy broke out *because* of the perceived liberality of SWB's views. So, I reject the notion that the far right is not trying to control the conversation.

 

The answer to the part bolded is NO, I didn't say anything about NCHE one way or the other; I have nothing to prove. Rather let's go back to that first thing I responded to:

 

I know the NC people won't invite her because she's not the right kind of Christian.

 

That's a statement of fact. All I am doing right now is asking for solid proof not conjecture.

 

However, the zero phrase you are using in this post is way too broad. NCHE has many minor speakers and some of them have not been Christian in any way that I can detect. Jim Weiss for instance. They're not key note speakers because they draw the big crowds that other speakers do, but they are there.

 

But that really is beside my main point: if you make a statement of fact, then prove it with solid evidence not innuendo and insinuation.

 

I might also add that I find it sad that in a positive post about SWB, some have to drag down others. That doesn't help SWB.

[Mrs Mungo]

However, the zero phrase you are using in this post is way too broad. NCHE has many minor speakers and some of them have not been Christian in any way that I can detect. Jim Weiss for instance. They're not key note speakers because they draw the big crowds that other speakers do, but they are there.

 

Jim Weiss does workshops, which is different from being a speaker in a hall. This is my twelfth year homeschooling, and I've attended various conferences in various states. I know the difference.

 

But that really is beside my main point: if you make a statement of fact, then prove it with solid evidence not innuendo and insinuation.

 

You are arguing with me, but that's NOT a statement that *I* made. I said NCHE doesn't represent or support people outside of their POV. That's why the GHC was a hit that first year, because it *was* inclusive. Then, the GHC was sadly mired in controversy because of the extreme right slamming people who would like to see inclusive homeschooling support.

 

I might also add that I find it sad that in a positive post about SWB, some have to drag down others. That doesn't help SWB.

 

That's an incredibly ironic statement, given the circumstances that I'm discussing. It isn't dragging down others to point out *facts* of what happened in the past *or* what is happening now.

 

Did you note what it said in the article about people using public charter schools to homeschool? Have you seen the venom here that some people spew at those people? The front page of the NCHE page *right now* has an article with the headline, "Virtual Public Schools and Homeschooling Don't Mix." That's direct evidence that they have no intention of being inclusive.

 

Also on their front page *right now*? An article on why we should support a Parental Rights Amendment. That's in intensely political issue that stems from the extreme right.

 

What does it say under, "about us"?

 

"NCHE is operated on the basis of Biblical principles and living faith, welcoming members of all races, nationalities, and religions who subscribe to the NCHE ideals."

 

That indicates that they are not interested in supporting people outside of what they view as Biblical principles. Which, that's their right. But, you cannot pretend that they are inclusive or intend to support homeschoolers of all stripes. And people from that crowd *definitely* caused the broohaha stirred up at the GHC. For Pete's sake, we SERIOUSLY cannot have a relatively inclusive conference? There was ALREADY a conference for the far right people. THAT is what is frustrating and angering people about the situation and THAT is what the article was about. The far right wants to control the voice of homeschooling, period and have gone to great lengths to prove it.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[cathmom]

Jessie Wise was a speaker at NCHE once, probably in 2001 or 2002. I'm sure I have notes somewhere. She was not a keynote speaker or featured in any way.

 

NCHE used to be slightly more open to other POVs. Once Susannah Schaeffer of Growing Without Schooling spoke.

 

I volunteered several years running to do a session on Catholic Homeschooling and that never went anywhere.

 

I haven't been since 2006, I think, and have no intention of ever going again. It is a waste of time.

 

I find it hard to believe that SWB would never speak at a conference so close to her home if she were invited.

[Mrs Mungo]

NCHE used to be slightly more open to other POVs.

 

I *do* agree with this, fwiw.

[pdalley]

That indicates that they are not interested in supporting people outside of what they view as Biblical principles. Which, that's their right. But, you cannot pretend that they are inclusive or intend to support homeschoolers of all stripes. And people from that crowd *definitely* caused the broohaha stirred up at the GHC. For Pete's sake, we SERIOUSLY cannot have a relatively inclusive conference? There was ALREADY a conference for the far right people. THAT is what is frustrating and angering people about the situation and THAT is what the article was about. The far right wants to control the voice of homeschooling, period and have gone to great lengths to prove it.

 

:iagree:

 

Is it really too much to ask for a conference that teaches us how to teach instead of a world view conference? I do not need Biblical parenting instruction - I have a fine Pastor and church body. I need help modify curriculum for my special learners. I do not need a lecture on how imperfect a Christian I am.

 

There is no way in heck I'm going to Winston Salem for that. And I am a conservative leaning Christian. But I like to hear all sides even if - and especially if I don't agree with them.

 

I also strongly disagree with NCHE's position that we bend over backwards and send in things the law does not require us to send in.

 

One day I'll win the lottery and we will have a truly inclusive conference and SWB will be the keynote speaker. :tongue_smilie:

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree:

 

Is it really too much to ask for a conference that teaches us how to teach instead of a world view conference? I do not need Biblical parenting instruction - I have a fine Pastor and church body. I need help modify curriculum for my special learners. I do not need a lecture on how imperfect a Christian I am.

 

There is no way in heck I'm going to Winston Salem for that. And I am a conservative leaning Christian. But I like to hear all sides even if - and especially if I don't agree with them.

 

I also strongly disagree with NCHE's position that we bend over backwards and send in things the law does not require us to send in.

 

One day I'll win the lottery and we will have a truly inclusive conference and SWB will be the keynote speaker. :tongue_smilie:

 

I agree with all of that except that I tend toward politically moderate Christian. ;)

[JumpyTheFrog]

Does anyone have evidence that SWB is not invited because of religion? Something on NCHE's website or letterhead or is this just talk?

 

I think you are asking for proof that would be impossible to find. It's like asking, "Do you have written proof Mary didn't invite Joe to her party because of blah blah blah?"

 

Nobody here can prove why SWB hasn't been invited. But looking through the speakers they usually have, the conference's focus really seems to be theological much more than academic. And while NC may have many conservative Christians, I doubt the majority of homeschoolers are QF and patriarchal.

[Candid]

Jim Weiss does workshops, which is different from being a speaker in a hall. This is my twelfth year homeschooling, and I've attended various conferences in various states. I know the difference.

 

Yes, the difference is the number of folks who want to hear a speaker. You don't put someone who you think a thousand folks will want to hear in a 100 seat hall.

 

This is pure marketing and knowing your audience not discrimination.

 

I also find it interesting that you began by saying they had zero speakers who weren't conservative Christians, but now you wish to redefine what you meant by speakers.

 

 

You are arguing with me, but that's NOT a statement that *I* made. I said NCHE doesn't represent or support people outside of their POV. That's why the GHC was a hit that first year, because it *was* inclusive. Then, the GHC was sadly mired in controversy because of the extreme right slamming people who would like to see inclusive homeschooling support.

 

 

But you posted and quoted me and my post had that as what I was responding to. I don't think it is unfair of me to assume that you are defending the original position.

 

If you didn't want to defend that fine, but then I'm not sure why you posted in the first place.

 

Here's what I said in response to the quote I've repeated several times:

 

A friend of mine is a NCHE board member and she's explicitly told me that NCHE does not user religious standards in choosing speakers. She even implied they've taken some hits over that.

 

I haven't asked about SWB, but I'll see if I can remember to. (I'm afraid my big concern to her this last year was about why they had a grain mill company in the exhibit hall: I want ed vendors, but she says that surveys indicated some folks want that sort of thing.)

 

If your goal wasn't to dispute what I said then why post at all, other than to argue? I don't understand.

 

 

That's an incredibly ironic statement, given the circumstances that I'm discussing. It isn't dragging down others to point out *facts* of what happened in the past *or* what is happening now.

 

Did you note what it said in the article about people using public charter schools to homeschool? Have you seen the venom here that some people spew at those people? The front page of the NCHE page *right now* has an article with the headline, "Virtual Public Schools and Homeschooling Don't Mix." That's direct evidence that they have no intention of being inclusive.

 

Also on their front page *right now*? An article on why we should support a Parental Rights Amendment. That's in intensely political issue that stems from the extreme right.

 

What does it say under, "about us"?

 

"NCHE is operated on the basis of Biblical principles and living faith, welcoming members of all races, nationalities, and religions who subscribe to the NCHE ideals."

 

That indicates that they are not interested in supporting people outside of what they view as Biblical principles. Which, that's their right. But, you cannot pretend that they are inclusive or intend to support homeschoolers of all stripes. And people from that crowd *definitely* caused the broohaha stirred up at the GHC. For Pete's sake, we SERIOUSLY cannot have a relatively inclusive conference? There was ALREADY a conference for the far right people. THAT is what is frustrating and angering people about the situation and THAT is what the article was about. The far right wants to control the voice of homeschooling, period and have gone to great lengths to prove it.

 

To be honest, I don't think any of this is on point of what I originally posted about and I have tried to keep as the issue I am interested in discussing in focus, but I believe I have failed.

 

All of it is circumstantial, much of it has nothing to do with conference speaker selection. Once again here's what I posted about originally:

 

I know the NC people won't invite her because she's not the right kind of Christian.

 

I have been told directly by a board member I know and have no reason to distrust this is not correct. If you wish to keep discussing with me that is what I would like to hear evidence on.

 

To be honest I begin to wonder if discussion is what is desired or if it is just a chance to malign others with few facts in hand. If you have facts on this point I would be glad to hear them.

 

Your closing paragraphs have me wondering why you are so vehement about my brief post and my efforts to stay focused on what I posted in response to.

[Candid]

I think you are asking for proof that would be impossible to find. It's like asking, "Do you have written proof Mary didn't invite Joe to her party because of blah blah blah?"

 

Nobody here can prove why SWB hasn't been invited. But looking through the speakers they usually have, the conference's focus really seems to be theological much more than academic. And while NC may have many conservative Christians, I doubt the majority of homeschoolers are QF and patriarchal.

 

Actually the person I posted in response to seems to indicate she has this sort of proof:

 

I know the NC people won't invite her because she's not the right kind of Christian.

 

I guess I feel generally if you say something like that you should be able to substantiate it.

[pdalley]

 

Your closing paragraphs have me wondering why you are so vehement about my brief post and my efforts to stay focused on what I posted in response to.

 

Well I don't know anyone on the NCHE board so I can't provide that type of proof. I know I don't feel welcome at their events because of the type of speakers they have. As I said, I'm not driving six hours for a world view conference. There's also the parking and lodging problem for that conference. The focus is entirely too narrow - speaker wise - for me to make that type of financial investment for a lecture on being a better Christian.

 

I find it really hard to believe that SWB wouldn't pack them in. She appeals to most homeschoolers I know - even more conservative than I. So why hasn't NCHE invited her and others?

 

I do know that at after that GHC conference SWB was called out for not being Christian enough for certain other speakers and then another conference was started by those other speakers. Since it appears - based on reading their conference lineups - that NCHE state conference is more like the new conferences in what they offer and the type of speakers they welcome then I can logically conclude for myself that they won't be inviting SWB anytime soon.

 

I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone - just explaining why I won't attend NCHE. I want a homeschool conference that tells me how to do more than teach the Bible. They don't fit my need at the moment.

[cathmom]

Since we're asking for clarification, I'd love some on the statement, "she even implied they'd taken some hits over that."

 

Did people complain that NCHE wasn't Christian enough? I can't imagine what kind of hits NCHE could take.

 

(Just to be clear, I'm truly curious, not being snarky or sarcastic.)

[Sandy in Indy]

Probably already posted (haven't read all the pages) but this was my favorite part of the article:

 

A June article in U.S. News & World Report said that home-schooled children graduate from college at higher rates than their peers, earn higher GPAs and are better socialized than most high school students.

 

What? What did you say? BETTER SOCIALIZED??? :D :D :D

[Candid]

Well I don't know anyone on the NCHE board so I can't provide that type of proof. I know I don't feel welcome at their events because of the type of speakers they have. As I said, I'm not driving six hours for a world view conference. There's also the parking and lodging problem for that conference. The focus is entirely too narrow - speaker wise - for me to make that type of financial investment for a lecture on being a better Christian.

 

I find it really hard to believe that SWB wouldn't pack them in. She appeals to most homeschoolers I know - even more conservative than I. So why hasn't NCHE invited her and others?

 

I do know that at after that GHC conference SWB was called out for not being Christian enough for certain other speakers and then another conference was started by those other speakers. Since it appears - based on reading their conference lineups - that NCHE state conference is more like the new conferences in what they offer and the type of speakers they welcome then I can logically conclude for myself that they won't be inviting SWB anytime soon.

 

I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone - just explaining why I won't attend NCHE. I want a homeschool conference that tells me how to do more than teach the Bible. They don't fit my need at the moment.

 

I would not have objected to any of this. It's certainly all very logical and based on your own personal life. I don't think I would drive to home school convention 6 hours away even if every speaker was someone I vitally wanted to see.

 

And honestly, I'm not much of a talk attender myself. Talks I would like to hear would not be those others would want to hear. I read more than most people and thanks to my own personal interests know way too much about some subjects. I've learned over my 51 years that it is best I not go into that with most folks because it just doesn't work out: they aren't interested and I start to sound either extremely geeky or snobby (and I deny neither).

 

Since we're asking for clarification, I'd love some on the statement, "she even implied they'd taken some hits over that."

 

Did people complain that NCHE wasn't Christian enough? I can't imagine what kind of hits NCHE could take.

 

(Just to be clear, I'm truly curious, not being snarky or sarcastic.)

 

I don't want to imply I know more about this and I don't want to get my friend into trouble (remember I've served on boards before and with one the size of NCHE's there's got to be some group dynamics in play -- I'd think that about any board). So here's what I thought I heard: it relates to what Peggy says about a new group, although I think maybe it was an already existing group that in someway packages home school conference speakers.

 

When my friend and I talked about the SC GHC, she mentioned another national group that also packages speakers that would not work with NCHE for exactly the reason that you state they didn't meet some bar of enough (I seem to recall it had to to do with lack of membership requirements but whether that was general members or board members I don't think I was clear on). This was a fleeting reference, not something I interrogated her over to present factual evidence. It was probably at least six months to a year ago so I lack detail.

 

However, let me point out I had another friend who was pretty knickers in a knot over one of the key note speakers because he spoke out against home churches. I even purchased the talk so I could listen to it. He had some fairly negative things to say about home schoolers and church relations. Ones I don't think would fly in a the narrow group (especially the family church groups I've read about) I've heard about, but I honestly don't know enough to draw conclusions nor make definitive statements.

 

I guess from my point of view what I have heard (see my comments about the wheat grinding vendor) is that NCHE uses surveys of people attending the conference to choose folks to invite the next year. This makes sense to me because in choosing a yearly banquet speaker, my nonprofit did the same thing.

 

I guess I think it would be nice to use Occam's Razor for things like this. Go for the one with the least assumptions and those you must make should be the most likely. I also liked to make sure when folks say they know things that they can back that up with real facts.