WWE3 Dictation

[basschick]

I have a question about the dictation for Writing With Ease. We are now on the 3rd book with my oldest. When we do the dictation, I don't see how my son is supposed to remember 3 sentences word for word before writing them down, even if I repeat them for him 25 times. What is the point of memorizing a huge chunk of words before writing them down? Isn't sentence-by-sentence enough? My husband was listening to us do dictation one day and he was dumb-founded by what I was asking my 8yo son to do.

 

I am now doing a lot of sentence-by-sentence work. I will read the whole selection through a few times and then we break it down. We do the first sentence, he repeats it back to me and then writes it down. Then I say the 2nd sentence, he repeats it back to me and writes it down, and so on. What are you all doing at this level?

[lulubelle]

I have struggled a bit with WWE. My ds 10 is on to level 4 and is progressing better than I thought was possible.

 

Your child does not need to have the sentence word for word. It should be close to the original sentence, but more important is just holding a complete thought (sentence) in their heads - with the same general information or idea.

 

Try not to get stuck on the exact wording.

 

I went to a talk by SWB and she explained this. It helped me to relax about it.

 

I think dictation is a crucial component to writing. It allows a child to know what it is like to have a complete thought in their head and then write it down. Those steps are very important in the writing process.

 

Dictation is gradually teaching your child to write a paragraph. It is building confidence in writing a complete thoughts repeatedly, broken into multiple sentences.

 

I am certain it will help them be better writers in the long run.

[Mom-ninja.]

My boys will give me a synonym for a word and I accept it. I simply tell them the actual word and keep going. I repeat as often as necessary. I break it up if necessary. However, I make sure that I'm still stretching their ability.

 

We really struggled with dictation, but I kept at it. I'm glad I did.

 

You can listen to SWB's lecture on writing which you can get from Peace Hill Press.

[lbakos]

I recently watched a youtube video of SWB doing a dictation lesson with her son. I think it was called "dictation with dan." You may want to watch it. It's very helpful.

 

My dd is using WWE3 and we're basically doing exactly what you described (breaking down sentence by sentence if needed) however, I wait until she has memorized each sentence and then puts it all together before writing down. And once she has it memorized I have her say it to me at least two times before beginning to write.

Edited November 3, 2012 by lbakos

[Alicia64]

I recently watched a youtube video of SWB doing a dictation lesson with her son. I think it was called "dictation with dan." You may want to watch it. It's very helpful.

 

My dd is using WWE3 and we're basically doing exactly what you described (breaking down sentence by sentence if needed) however, I wait until she has memorized each sentence and then puts it all together before writing down. And once she has it memorized I have her say it to me at least two times before beginning to write.

 

My nine-year-olds hate dictation in WWE3. So I also watched "dictation with Dan" which was good for me and my kids to watch. But when we got back to dictation. . . not so much.

 

I think it's an admirable skill if kids can be taught to keep huge chunks in their brain and then write it all down, but. . . I think the cost of having kids hate WWE because of dictation is just too great a cost. My kids were avoiding the curriculum like the plague.

 

So I have them copy the sentences that they're supposed to memorize and write down. And we thoroughly discuss why the commas are where they are etc. etc.

 

I think it's a very valuable curriculum, but, yeah, the dictation might work for some but it might cause a complete train wreck for others.

 

Alley

[RootAnn]

SWB does a great job explaining why we teach our kids dictation (and how it helps them be a better writer, for example). However, if you want to hear someone ELSE explain why dictation is helpful, keep reading.

 

Someone (beechnut) posted a link to some free YouTube study skills lectures. This first one, "

," has a section (starting around 29:22) where he dictates five sentences of increased length to his students.

 

The point he is working on is "Practice." After the sentences are done & you check them, he says that when you take lecture notes, you are trying to keep in your head what the teacher just said in order to write down the gist of it (not word for word like dictation) and still be listening to what the teacher is saying while you are writing. Dictation helps you practice good listening skills, stretching your brain to be able to keep the words in your brain.

 

Sit down with your WWE kid & you two see who can get these sentences the most correct from only ONE reading! Then, sit together & listen to him explain how helpful this is & how it helps you to stretch (GROW) your mind/brain.

[Alicia64]

 

Someone (beechnut) posted a link to some free YouTube study skills lectures. This first one, "

," has a section (starting around 29:22) where he dictates five sentences of increased length to his students.

 

 

I'm about to respectfully disagree with you, but THANK YOU for sending us Improving Listening Skills in the link above. I listened just now to 1/3 of it and will listen to the rest -- and his other lectures as well. He's a keeper.

 

Thank you.

 

However, my opinion hasn't changed. I think being able to absorb "the juice" out of a lecture or a chapter or a paragraph etc. is a different skill from the skill of being able to parrot back words as SWB is having kids do in WWE dictation.

 

Now, if the kids are up for the challenge: fine. But that dictation exercise drives my kids to avoidance of WWE.

 

At the same time my boys are absolutely awesome at comprehension. So while they can't parrot back the exact words of a sentence they are primo at explaining the nuts and bolts of what the writer was getting at. (Both the literal and the symbolic.)

 

And I believe deeply that the comprehension skill comes from years and years of listening to read alouds. Being able to derive the theme/guts/juice/whatever you want to call it is more important than parroting exact sentences.

 

Read alouds by parents or audio is more important, I think, to the eventual ability to really listen well.

 

Alley

[RootAnn]

Alicia - I thought the Listening one was great & look forward to having time to watch some of the others.

 

You expressed your disagreement in such a polite & complete way that it was delightful to read. Thank you.

 

I agree dictation isn't for everyone. However, listening to a lot of books read aloud (by parents or by audiobook) isn't always a magic bullet for everyone either. For example, some kids can listen but not be able to summarize, retell, or express their comprehension even if they do understand.

 

I'm glad we have different experiences & opinions on here because chances are, I'll have one kid who is different than the rest & I'll need another view!

[nrself]

My boys get annoyed by the dictation sentences in WWE too. I remind them that they don't have to get them perfect. We aren't trying for perfect; we aren't competing against each other; we're trying to stretch each's own ability to hold the thought in their mind while they write. With practice they'll get better. (Plus they especially like it when they do better than Mom at remembering the sentence. :) )

 

Nicole

[basschick]

Thanks everyone! I guess I don't understand the value of holding 3 sentences in one's head before writing things down because I only keep one sentence in my head at a time and I do a lot of writing down and then crossing out / editing my work.

I have to watch the videos. We will keep plugging along with the dictation. I'm pretty sure he could remember more of a passage with just one reading than I could!!

[Forget-Me-Not]

When it gets into the three-sentence dictation, she includes a note in the that you can break it into smaller chunks if it's too overwhelming for the kid.

[Classically Minded]

Susan Wise Bauer says it so well in a video she did here answering a similar question on dictation:

 

 

Also, make sure to see the video of dictation with Dan, her son:

 

 

[basschick]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! These are very helpful. :)

[FLDebbie]

This made me think of a conversation I had last week with a psychologist going over my son's gifted test results. He did great everywhere except in working memory. The psychologist, who is an older woman, said she has noticed a decrease over the years in that one particular score. She attributes it to how much easier it is for us to access information these days and also the lack of practice of memorizing passages in school. I can completely remember having to memorize poems or famous speeches in school and having to recite them. I hated it, but with practice, it got easier.

 

I thought about the dictation I use in WWE2 (with my other son) and realized that is helping him immensely. We just finished week 11 and I have noticed how much easier it's getting for him to remember the sentences. This past week, he said he wanted to write it from memory of what we had covered the day before and he got it completely right! My hope is that by working with him through WWE, this working memory skill will be sharpened over time.