spiral vs mastery - how do you know which?

[faiths13]

how do you know which your child will do better with? what about spiral programs where you have to "jump in the middle" (not starting from 1st grade i guess?). it seems like then you are missing some concepts already covered? what are your opinions on spiral vs mastery programs?

[SilverMoon]

how do you know which your child will do better with?

Trial and error. Most kids would probably do fine with either, as long as you're comfortable teaching it.

 

 

what about spiral programs where you have to "jump in the middle" (not starting from 1st grade i guess?). it seems like then you are missing some concepts already covered?

Most have chapter tests or an equivalent. Use them as quizzes until they get a bad score; start in that section. If a skipped concept was terribly important it will come back around again.

 

what are your opinions on spiral vs mastery programs?

That it's moot for most kids. :001_smile:

 

An anecdotal hypothesis I've made from observing just my own kids is that when they struggle with a subject, they do better with mastery. When they're doing fine or excelling in a subject, it doesn't seem to matter. Only one of my four students have a strong enough reaction to the spiral/mastery choice for me to tailor his curricula to suit him, and it is worse in the subject he struggles with most.

[Violet Crown]

Mastery plus consistent review/incorporation of mastered material.

 

It's worked for two and a half millennia.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Sharon in Austin
incoherence

[Shelsi]

I think sometimes you have to just find one that looks good to you and then try it out. I think often it depends on the kid. My 8 yr old ds has been using a mastery curriculum (MUS) ever since kindy and it's awesome for him. He has done outstanding with this type.

 

So naturally that's what I started my 5 yr old dd on and naturally it turned out to be all wrong for her :001_huh: So, on the suggestions of many here on the forums, I tried out MEP this week and so far it's going much better. I don't know yet if this will be the right fit for her but I can tell already that it's a better fit than MUS was.

 

One thing about mastery vs spiral is that you have to be prepared for how your child will "compare" to their public school counterparts. My 8 yr old doing the mastery curriculum is both way ahead and way behind from his peers in different areas. He can do some pretty complicated arithmetic that they won't learn for another year or two however there are also concepts that he won't learn for another year or two that they've already been exposed to (things like decimals and fractions for example). That issue used to bother me when we didn't think we'd be HSing for the long haul. I was worried he'd be behind when he went back to public school.

[boscopup]

how do you know which your child will do better with?

 

I think for most kids, either would work fine. Some kids have strong reactions to one or the other. You'll know if you have one of those kids, once you try the wrong one, I guess. ;) So far, I have two very different math students both using a mastery-ish program successfully. Time will tell if it will work long term for DS2 (he's one that I could see needing a spiral at some point), but so far, it's all good. I'm not changing it unless we see a problem over the long term (getting stuck on one concept would not be enough to make me change).

 

what about spiral programs where you have to "jump in the middle" (not starting from 1st grade i guess?). it seems like then you are missing some concepts already covered? what are your opinions on spiral vs mastery programs?

That shouldn't be a problem. Most math programs teach certain concepts in a given year. The difference in the spiral program is that you are continually reviewing all the concepts learned up to this point, usually spending more time on review than you spend on the new concept. A mastery program spends more time on the new concept, and throws in periodic review. Both are teaching the same concepts in a year's time, and both are reviewing the material all year long.

 

Now there are some programs that are vastly different in scope and sequence from "the norm". MUS and Rightstart would be good examples of this. Those programs can be harder to jump in and out of, but for regular programs like CLE, Saxon, Horizons (all spiral) or Singapore, Math Mammoth (mastery, though "soft spiral" through the years) - taking a placement test is all you need. Or if there isn't a placement test, just look at the scope and sequence and see where your child falls.

[Haiku]

what are your opinions on spiral vs mastery programs?

 

It depends on your kid. I have one child who would be driven bonkers by spiral math. She would not enjoy the small, seemingly disconnected bits of many topics. She does well with Math Mammoth.

 

I have one child who was driven bonkers by mastery math. He needs more time for a topic to coalesce, and the mastery programs we tried moved too quickly through a single topic for him to keep up. He needs constant review to keep his knowledge of topics sharp. He enjoys having lessons with a variety of problems.

 

Two different kids, two different approaches. I don't agree with the people who claim that one certain approach to math is the holy grail.

 

Tara

[Ellie]

You can't know.

 

And I don't believe spiral vs. mastery is the most important thing to consider, anyway. Either one can be presented in such a way that children will learn from it.

[MamaHappy]

I agre with Ellie. In my case, my children do fine either way. But *I* prefer mastery. It seems more logical and just makes sense to me.

[RootAnn]

what about spiral programs where you have to "jump in the middle" (not starting from 1st grade i guess?). it seems like then you are missing some concepts already covered? what are your opinions on spiral vs mastery programs?

 

The thing about 'tight spiral' programs is that there is no "jump in the middle" because they are constantly reviewing things. You don't miss concepts - every year, every concept is re-introduced like you were getting it the first time (although the "introduction" gets shorter & shorter) & then built on & reviewed constantly.

 

The loose spirals (where each concept is covered every year, but not reviewed all the time & each year there is more depth added) also will cover everything eventually (through a one-year course).

 

My older two kids need to see things over & over & over again or they lose it. This is true of math, history, science, grammar, etc.

 

My #3 kid needs this less, but she isn't completely annoyed at seeing things over & over again (yet). She would likely do great with a mastery curriculum. It happens that I already use spiral for math & as long as she's doing ok, I'm not switching.

[SnMomof7]

With my oldest, she'd get a concept - have it down - mastered. Then she'd forget it because it wasn't being reviewed all the time. Just switched to CLE, really appreciate having the review planned for me instead of having to always add review in myself so she wouldn't forget...how to tell time for example (which we taught many, many times to mastery).

[ChandlerMom]

I'm a strong believer in mastery, but I organize topics in threads, so you don't leave a topic for months. I also agree with the pp that although most will be fine with either, those who seem to struggle most need the focus of master with plenty of retention review vrs spiral.

 

That said, the real reason I like mastery is that you can always take a mastery based program and turn it into a spiral. Or do like I do and work it into "threads" (work in different chapters simultaneously on different days, so for example you are doing arithmetic MWF and geometry TTH, instead of doing a month of geometry in the spring). If you look at the TOC you can see which topics need to build on each other and which are independent.

 

OTOH, you really cannot take a spiral program and unspiral it, so if your dc struggles with spiral, you are kinda stuck.

 

So ultimately, what I like about mastery-based programs is that they offer me what I ultimately like about homeschooling in general -- the freedom to adapt them to best suit my child, and because they are set up linearly I can adapt them without much effort. ;)

 

If you are someone who does not like to tinker with things and you start with a mastery program and your child seems to have trouble retaining information, I would either try my threads approach (working more slowly through unrelated topics, but giving more time for things to soak in and review), or switch the following year to a spiral approach.

 

But that's me. YMMV.

[stm4him]

I think there is a lot of misconception about spiral programs. Spiral programs are working for mastery as well, but they are doing it by adding a little at a time to what they already know and then holding the student accountable for knowing everything previously learned so that they don't forget anything that has been introduced. But they don't expect you to master everything about that topic....just the piece they gave you. As the concept is practiced the difficulty level is slowly ramped up. I think this is a confidence builder. If a child is doing a spiral/incremental development type program and they don't understand the concept being presented (in other words, need more practice in order to understand what they've been taught), then a program that lists additional problems can be added for that one concept before moving on. Or it can be explained in a different way using a different resource or different manipulative. But mastery programs often only achieve temporary mastery unless the parent continually adds in review, often involving bringing in another program for this purpose. So, either way it is often the norm to have a few other resources on hand to help if a student gets stuck. But this is what every teacher does. I think we often switch programs thinking each kid needs a different program when we just need to learn to teach a solid program slightly differently depending on the needs of a child. You can make slight changes to adjust for learning styles, struggling learners, and advanced learners if you know how. More drill can be added for those who need it and more concept practice can be used for those who don't understand right away. But I think programs with incremental development can be used for all students, adapting as needed. And a mastery program can be used for all students if you add in regular review of previous concepts. But in my opinion it is easier to add to a spiral program as needed for a particular student knowing that no matter what you are getting your regular review in (for long term mastery and retention) rather than using a mastery program and having to add in the review manually for all students.

 

I really, really have seen in the last few years that incremental development, continual review, and memorization are the best tools for long term retention and mastery and can be used at all grade levels and all subjects. So we choose programs that are laid out this way and have this methodology at their core (Saxon, Classical Conversations, Latin's Not So Tough, Hey Andrew, etc. for example).

[boscopup]

Stm4him, I can't name a mastery program that doesn't include review. Math builds on itself. As you move on, you are continually using previous concepts. Most mastery programs include explicit cumulative reviews and also build in review via word problems.

 

I have yet to add review for either of my kids, and I've used Math Mammoth and Singapore (oldest is halfway through grade 5 level). Both include plenty of review through the year and year to year. My kids learn differently, yet both are doing fine without continual, daily review. In fact, my older son would be bored to tears with a spiral program. He had to use Saxon at school. Horrible fit.

 

Some kids do need daily review, but I still think most will do fine with either choice. I personally prefer mastery, as that is how I learn best. Tell me how to do it, let me practice it until I'm good at it, then periodically review it. I don't need daily spiral review of everything. I get bored by that. My oldest son is like me.

[Perogi]

It depends on your kid. I have one child who would be driven bonkers by spiral math. She would not enjoy the small, seemingly disconnected bits of many topics. She does well with Math Mammoth.

 

I have one child who was driven bonkers by mastery math. He needs more time for a topic to coalesce, and the mastery programs we tried moved too quickly through a single topic for him to keep up. He needs constant review to keep his knowledge of topics sharp. He enjoys having lessons with a variety of problems.

 

Two different kids, two different approaches. I don't agree with the people who claim that one certain approach to math is the holy grail.

 

Tara

 

This is totally my situation too. Using and loving Singapore with my eldest and my middle was brought to tears of frustration every day by that mastery approach. She is using CLE and loves it.

[Spy Car]

Stm4him, I can't name a mastery program that doesn't include review. Math builds on itself. As you move on, you are continually using previous concepts. Most mastery programs include explicit cumulative reviews and also build in review via word problems.

 

I have yet to add review for either of my kids, and I've used Math Mammoth and Singapore (oldest is halfway through grade 5 level). Both include plenty of review through the year and year to year. My kids learn differently, yet both are doing fine without continual, daily review. In fact, my older son would be bored to tears with a spiral program. He had to use Saxon at school. Horrible fit.

 

Some kids do need daily review, but I still think most will do fine with either choice. I personally prefer mastery, as that is how I learn best. Tell me how to do it, let me practice it until I'm good at it, then periodically review it. I don't need daily spiral review of everything. I get bored by that. My oldest son is like me.

 

:iagree:

 

Bill