Classical Writing Primers followed by WWE3?

[Katydid]

We are currently using PLL and Wheeler's for LA with my third grader. We like the programs, but I find I need to tweak a bit. At this stage in my homeschooling (with two school aged plus a baby and toddler) I need to use something more open and go.

 

I've narrowed it down to either CW or WWE. We tried WWE in 1st grade and it was OK. It got done without many complaints, but I found it a bit monotonous after a while. I do love the approach, the ease and simplicity of this program, though.

 

But then I look at the CW primers and I think they look wonderful! Almost like a cross between the PLL/Wheeler's that we are used to plus the ease of WWE.

 

But I'm not sure I want to continue on to CW Aesop after the primers. Do you think the primers would prepare a student enough to begin WWE3 next year? I really love the look of WWS and I eventually want DS to use that program, so I'm thinking WWE 3 & 4 would be the best preparation for that, right?

 

So can we use the CW primers for the rest of this year and then move to WWE3 or should we just start WWE2? I like that the primers have integrated grammar (I am more CM when it comes to LA in the early years and am OK with delayed/light grammar) because I don't really want to do a separate grammar program if we go with WWE this year.

 

Also, if I wanted to start the primers right away, should I order Autumn and just start him halfway through that book, or should I just go ahead and order winter, knowing that we tend to take longer than normal to finish books? How crucial is it to keep in line with the seasons with the primers?

[SilverMoon]

The primers would be great preparation for WWE 3. You don't have to go into Aesop. :001_smile: The seasons don't have to match. The connections may not appear in the world around you until you actually get into winter. We could use them here in the desert where we don't really have a winter.

[Katydid]

Thank you very much! We have long winters here (we should get our first snowfall this month) so I think skipping ahead to Winter should probably work. I'm glad to hear it will be good prep. for WWE3, as well!

[LMD]

We're just finishing up with the primers & have loved it, really lovely curriculum. I certainly think it's worth doing. We are planning to go to aesop, but I'd think wwe is a good move too. Each season book is stand alone, so no problems to jump straight to winter imo.

[Katydid]

I might consider Aesop for my daughter in a few years, but I really think WWE/WWS will be a better long term fit for my hates-to-write oldest DS.

[Katydid]

OK, I've been looking more into these programs and I'm thinking this might be a good elementary LA progression for DS (on top of CM-style narrations in AO):

 

The rest of his 3rd grade year: CW winter and spring primers

4th grade: CW Aesop A

5th grade: CW Aesop B

6th grade: WWS + Analytical Grammar (or ALL if that is ready... is it even on the horizon?)

 

7th grade and up, I would hope to continue with WWS (+ALL), depending on how it progresses.

 

Thoughts? Is it not enough grammar? He's a natural speller, so I was thinking the spelling in CW will be enough. Anything else I'm missing?

[SilverMoon]

OK, I've been looking more into these programs and I'm thinking this might be a good elementary LA progression for DS (on top of CM-style narrations in AO):

 

The rest of his 3rd grade year: CW winter and spring primers

4th grade: CW Aesop A

5th grade: CW Aesop B

6th grade: WWS + Analytical Grammar (or ALL if that is ready... is it even on the horizon?)

 

7th grade and up, I would hope to continue with WWS (+ALL), depending on how it progresses.

 

Thoughts? Is it not enough grammar? He's a natural speller, so I was thinking the spelling in CW will be enough. Anything else I'm missing?

 

 

I wouldn't bank on ALL, not even as a back-up plan.

 

 

Aesop does include the grammar you need to complete them, but the spelling is only doing a breakdown of ten random words from the model, once per lesson. There is no actual spelling instruction included.

 

Your plan looks good, but I suggest speeding Aesop up at some point. There are 18 lessons in each Aesop level. If used in the originally intended grades, A in 3rd, B in 4th, each lesson can be spread across two weeks. Older children can do a lesson in one week, easily. The 1 week schedule would be much better preparation for WWS, too.

 

A two week schedule would look like this.

Day 1: Read model to student, student narrates, student reads it back

Day 2: word analysis and imitation (A&I)

Day 3: sentence level A&I (this is where the grammar comes in)

Day 4: dictation or copywork

Day 1: outline the model (considered optional, but my kids needed this)

Day 2: rough draft

Day 3: edit and enhance

Day 4: final draft

 

An older kid could do this instead.

Day 1: read model to student, student narrates, reads it aloud, and outlines it

Day 2: all the A&I work from the first week above

Day 3: rough draft

Day 4: edit and enhance

Day 5: final draft

 

I started my reluctant writer with the 2 week plan, and once he had the new curriculum learning curve over I started morphing him over to the 1 week plan.

[Katydid]

Thanks so much for your input!

 

I've taken another look at R&S english... how possible is it to do this orally/on the white board? DS seriously has a fit if I ask him to write more than a few sentences a day, but doesn't seem to mind white board writing as much. :glare: Could we jump right into level 4 during his 5th grade year, or should we start now in level 2 or 3? The grammar looks really solid.... I just hope I can get over the cheesy Christian content. :tongue_smilie:(I don't understand why a grammar program has to preach at us!). But I do like that this program continues until grammar is no longer needed, it's cheap and it's thorough.

 

Thanks for the advice on the 1 week vs. 2 week plan for Aesop. Do you think the Primers will be enough of an introduction to this new style of curriculum for us to just jump right into the 1 week format of Aesop next year, or should I still start with the 2 week format and gradually transition him? I don't care too much about grade levels or when we start and stop programs, so whether he does Aesop in one or two years doesn't really matter to me. I just hope that sometime during all this, he will learn not to hate writing so much!

[SilverMoon]

Thanks so much for your input!

 

I've taken another look at R&S english... how possible is it to do this orally/on the white board? DS seriously has a fit if I ask him to write more than a few sentences a day, but doesn't seem to mind white board writing as much. :glare: Could we jump right into level 4 during his 5th grade year, or should we start now in level 2 or 3? The grammar looks really solid.... I just hope I can get over the cheesy Christian content. :tongue_smilie:(I don't understand why a grammar program has to preach at us!). But I do like that this program continues until grammar is no longer needed, it's cheap and it's thorough.

 

R&S is very easy to do it primarily orally and on the whiteboard. This is how my fourth grader is using the R&S 4 book this year.

 

I would not put a fifth grader in book 2 or 3, and I'd hesitate to put an average fifth grader in the 4 book. A savvy fifth grader with no previous grammar would most likely do fine in the 5 book, so one with Aesop under their belt ought to do great. :001_smile:

 

Your preachy comment made me snicker. :001_smile: R&S does include Bible stories as sources for the exercise sentences, along with many examples from science, history and geography topics, but they don't truly preach that I've seen. But, I had to use ACE "Paces" as a kid. Every pace had a Bible verse that must be memorized, which counted for points on the end of book test, and there were the corniest comics that warned against the dangers of exaggerating and wearing long pants on chapel day. There were random, gratuitous salvation messages stuffed wherever they found a hole. We had to complete about twelve paces per subject each school year. ACE makes R&S look downright tame. ;)

 

 

Thanks for the advice on the 1 week vs. 2 week plan for Aesop. Do you think the Primers will be enough of an introduction to this new style of curriculum for us to just jump right into the 1 week format of Aesop next year, or should I still start with the 2 week format and gradually transition him? I don't care too much about grade levels or when we start and stop programs, so whether he does Aesop in one or two years doesn't really matter to me. I just hope that sometime during all this, he will learn not to hate writing so much!

 

Aesop certainly did that for my oldest! He went from hating writing with a passion to needing the size of his stories reigned back in. Letting him change up the characters helped, too. As long as he kept true to the outline and moral of the story, he could make up his own characters, setting and such. His Princess and the Pea rewrite became Catwoman and the Diamond, for example. Catwoman had to prove she really was a qualified villain for a particular villain team by stealing a seemingly impossible to get diamond.

 

I'd start with the 2 week plan, or maybe a modified blend of them, and start morphing him over after a few lessons. If he finishes Aesop in the middle of fifth grade, starting WWS then would be a cinch.

[Katydid]

Wow... I'm staying far, far away form ACE, then! :lol:

 

I wondered if I should start him in R&S 2 or 3 now, or if the grammar in CW will be enough until we get to WWS/R&S 5?

 

Also, do you think Aesop is a good fit for a boy who is very literal in his thinking? He enjoys listening to fairy tales, etc., but is not all that imaginative when it comes to making up his own stories. They are all very much based in reality. He's also a very "follow the rules" type and does not do well with open ended assignments or instructions. From what I've seen, it looks like Aesop has pretty explicit instructions, but it's sometimes hard to tell just from the samples.

 

And, last question, could you tell me how much of the primers or Aesop can be done by him independently?

[SilverMoon]

Wow... I'm staying far, far away form ACE, then! :lol:

 

I wondered if I should start him in R&S 2 or 3 now, or if the grammar in CW will be enough until we get to WWS/R&S 5?

 

Also, do you think Aesop is a good fit for a boy who is very literal in his thinking? He enjoys listening to fairy tales, etc., but is not all that imaginative when it comes to making up his own stories. They are all very much based in reality. He's also a very "follow the rules" type and does not do well with open ended assignments or instructions. From what I've seen, it looks like Aesop has pretty explicit instructions, but it's sometimes hard to tell just from the samples.

 

And, last question, could you tell me how much of the primers or Aesop can be done by him independently?

 

Once he adjusts to the curricula, he can do the majority of it independently. Narrations will need you obviously, and edit/enhance day is largely discussion based.

 

Your description of your DS fits my second to a T. She also did very well in Aesop. She wasn't nearly as creative as her older brother, but it got her writing and writing well.

 

The grammar is up to you. Either way will get you there in the end. Starting with 5 after Aesop may be an upward climb, but it's not a steep one. Starting R&S at grade level now means more daily work, but the 5 book will be a walk in the park when you get there.

 

The CW authors say the instruction in Aesop is enough for those grades. My kids were already well into FLL/R&S when we started CW, and the grammar in Aesop was all review for them. I had them just skip some of the grammar exercises that were redundant for them, but they did do all the definitions and copia work. These two kids I'm primarily discussing are in upper logic stage now, and have never struggled with any level of R&S English. The lower levels prepared them well enough that they were like the frog in the boiling pot of water; they never noticed the difficulty level ratcheting up.

 

Your ds is in third grade now? If you plan to start R&S now I'd start him with the 3 book. There isn't really a reason to back up in these books until you have a 6th grader without a grammar background. The "very difficult" reputation they've earned is from the 6-10 books.

[Katydid]

Thank you so much for all your help! :D

 

I don't think I will add R&S to our workload this year, but maybe we could start level 4 next year.