If you have used Foerster's Algebra and Trig....

[TeaTotaler]

Ds is currently using Foerster's Alg and Trig (Classics Edn) and we came across this in section 4.8 Solution of Higher Order Systems by Augmented Matrices: "For problems 3 through 17, solve the system by augmented matrices using the program MATRIX ROWS on the accompanying disk (or similar interactive program). Problems 13, 14, and 17 have systems with more than three variables." I don't have a TM or disk other than the solutions manual. What did your dc do to solve these problems?

 

Also, my ds has only used a TI-30XIIS calculator for some of his math. Does he need to be familiar with a graphing calculator? I didn't think ds needed one until PreCalc/Calc.

 

Now I'm wondering if I should have purchased the Math Without Borders CD-ROM. Was his Alg/Trig course helpful?

 

If you have a schedule that you are using for this course and would be willing to share it, please let me know.

 

Thanks for your help.

[annabanana1992]

I have used a Ti-84 to perform all of the work in chapter 4.

[kiana]

Well, you can't really do those on a non-graphing calculator.

 

Frankly, if he understands the concepts I would have him do a few by hand (but not all of them because these can be horrendously long problems) and then learn how to do them with a graphing calculator in precalc, as this topic is re-covered in chapter 11 of foerster's precalc, and will be covered in just about any precalc course you do. Foerster's precalc integrates the graphing calculator a lot more, and it doesn't make sense to learn how to do them with an obsolete program and then learn how to do them next year on the graphing calculator.

 

You could also just buy the graphing calculator you'll need for next year now, and have him do them on the calculator.

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks. If we decide to wait on the graphing calculator will that affect any of the later chapters. Also, will it be a problem if we switch to another text. Ds has used Foerster for Alg 1 and would like to use in independently for PreCalc. I'm not sure this is wise so I've been considering Derek Owens for PreCalc and he uses a different text by Michael Sullivan. Alg 2 is the end of the road for me. I have chronic health issues and deteriorating vision so I want to save my energy/time for other subjects. Also, I have never taken PreCalc.

 

Any suggestions with re: to a schedule? Ds does all the DTQ questions and the odd ones for the rest of it. For some of the easier sections I cut it down further with the understanding that if he gets those wrong he will have to go back and attempt some more.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Well, you can't really do those on a non-graphing calculator.

 

Frankly, if he understands the concepts I would have him do a few by hand (but not all of them because these can be horrendously long problems) and then learn how to do them with a graphing calculator in precalc, as this topic is re-covered in chapter 11 of foerster's precalc, and will be covered in just about any precalc course you do. Foerster's precalc integrates the graphing calculator a lot more, and it doesn't make sense to learn how to do them with an obsolete program and then learn how to do them next year on the graphing calculator.

 

You could also just buy the graphing calculator you'll need for next year now, and have him do them on the calculator.

[TeaTotaler]

Did you use any other resources for learning how to use the graphing calculator or was the manual sufficient?

 

What schedule did you follow for Foerster's Alg2?

 

TIA.

 

I have used a Ti-84 to perform all of the work in chapter 4.

[swimmermom3]

Did you use any other resources for learning how to use the graphing calculator or was the manual sufficient?

 

What schedule did you follow for Foerster's Alg2?

 

TIA.

 

Do you mean the graphing calculator or the graphing lab workbooks that Foerster has for Alg. I and II?

[TeaTotaler]

Sorry for not being clear. I was wondering if it was necessary to purchase the graphing lab workbook from Kolbe to learn how to use the graphing calculator or does the calculator itself come with sufficient instructions. I have no idea what is inside the Kolbe workbook since I can't see inside it.

 

On another note: does the Kolbe graphing lab workbook indicate which calculator you need -TI83,TI84 or something else.

 

Thanks.

 

Do you mean the graphing calculator or the graphing lab workbooks that Foerster has for Alg. I and II?

[Jann in TX]

Mathtutordvd.com has an awesome Graphing Calculator tutorial.. it is on DVD. It will have you graphing lines within minutes-- while at the same time showing you how the menus work. It is easy to jump to the lessons that you need (like matrices).

 

I teach manual matrix manipulations-- I defer the Graphing Calculator until Pre-Calc. It is important that students know how to do these manually so they will understand how the Graphing Calculator will be a TOOL that helps them (it does not do all of the solving!).

 

This concept is taught in more detail in Pre-Calc.... it is not biggie if you skip the calculator lab for now...

 

HTH

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks for your input, Jann.

 

Mathtutordvd.com has an awesome Graphing Calculator tutorial.. it is on DVD. It will have you graphing lines within minutes-- while at the same time showing you how the menus work. It is easy to jump to the lessons that you need (like matrices).

 

I teach manual matrix manipulations-- I defer the Graphing Calculator until Pre-Calc. It is important that students know how to do these manually so they will understand how the Graphing Calculator will be a TOOL that helps them (it does not do all of the solving!).

 

This concept is taught in more detail in Pre-Calc.... it is not biggie if you skip the calculator lab for now...

 

HTH

[Kendall]

I don;t have time to read other responses, so this may repeat.

 

Those kinds of problems show up again in the precalc trig book. He can learn how to do them on the graphing calculator then. I would focus in Alg 2 on what you can do by hand/with scientific calculator. I don't teach my kids to use a grapher until precalc.

 

I think anything that can help you learn how to use the graphing calculator will save time. When we got to Foerster precalc, I spent a lot of time learning how to use the calculator so that I could show my son.

 

HTH,

Kendall

[Janice in NJ]

Mathtutordvd.com has an awesome Graphing Calculator tutorial.. it is on DVD. It will have you graphing lines within minutes-- while at the same time showing you how the menus work. It is easy to jump to the lessons that you need (like matrices).

 

I teach manual matrix manipulations-- I defer the Graphing Calculator until Pre-Calc. It is important that students know how to do these manually so they will understand how the Graphing Calculator will be a TOOL that helps them (it does not do all of the solving!).

 

This concept is taught in more detail in Pre-Calc.... it is not biggie if you skip the calculator lab for now...

 

HTH

 

I think I've found this on Amazon. (In case anyone is interested.)

We have always been able to check You Tube when we need help with the calculator. Although I must admit I have been looking for a good calculator resource for quite a while.

I've order the DVD's from Amazon. Hope they are the right ones. ;)

If Jann recommends them, I'm sure the content will be great.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Amazon.com: The Texas Instruments TI-83/TI-84 Calculator Tutor: Jason Gibson: Movies & TV

http://www.amazon.com/Texas-Instruments-TI-83-TI-84-Calculator/dp/B003ED8R6O/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

[Nscribe]

Mathtutordvd.com has an awesome Graphing Calculator tutorial.. it is on DVD. It will have you graphing lines within minutes-- while at the same time showing you how the menus work. It is easy to jump to the lessons that you need (like matrices).

 

 

HTH

:thumbup1: TY! TY! I have been looking for something to walk ME thru using the graphing calculator effectively....just in time to prepare for next year! Made my day.

[EKS]

I just had my student skip those problems.

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks for the replies. A related question about graphing calculators: Ds is currently in 9th grade, should I purchase a TI84 or would getting a TI 89 serve him better for a few more years. I didn't even know that the TI 89 existed until I checked Jann's link to MathTutorDVD.com.

 

I should probably start a different thread about the graphing calc but thought I'd post in this thread first.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Ds is currently using Foerster's Alg and Trig (Classics Edn) and we came across this in section 4.8 Solution of Higher Order Systems by Augmented Matrices: "For problems 3 through 17, solve the system by augmented matrices using the program MATRIX ROWS on the accompanying disk (or similar interactive program). Problems 13, 14, and 17 have systems with more than three variables." I don't have a TM or disk other than the solutions manual. What did your dc do to solve these problems?

 

Also, my ds has only used a TI-30XIIS calculator for some of his math. Does he need to be familiar with a graphing calculator? I didn't think ds needed one until PreCalc/Calc.

 

Now I'm wondering if I should have purchased the Math Without Borders CD-ROM. Was his Alg/Trig course helpful?

 

If you have a schedule that you are using for this course and would be willing to share it, please let me know.

 

Thanks for your help.

[kiana]

Thanks for the replies. A related question about graphing calculators: Ds is currently in 9th grade, should I purchase a TI84 or would getting a TI 89 serve him better for a few more years. I didn't even know that the TI 89 existed until I checked Jann's link to MathTutorDVD.com.

 

I should probably start a different thread about the graphing calc but thought I'd post in this thread first.

 

Thanks.

 

Some colleges ban the 89 on examinations because of its symbolic manipulation capabilities. Some just ban all graphing calculators. Some allow and encourage them. The 84 is likely to do just about everything you need it to and be a lot less expensive, (especially if you look used on ebay).

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks for the helpful info. I'll be on the lookout for a used TI84. Are there things I need to watch out for in buying a used calc. Is there a possibility that some functions will work while others won't. Since we've never used one, how would I check to make sure everything is in good working order.

 

Some colleges ban the 89 on examinations because of its symbolic manipulation capabilities. Some just ban all graphing calculators. Some allow and encourage them. The 84 is likely to do just about everything you need it to and be a lot less expensive, (especially if you look used on ebay).

[DavidSChandler]

Ds is currently using Foerster's Alg and Trig (Classics Edn) and we came across this in section 4.8 Solution of Higher Order Systems by Augmented Matrices: "For problems 3 through 17, solve the system by augmented matrices using the program MATRIX ROWS on the accompanying disk (or similar interactive program). Problems 13, 14, and 17 have systems with more than three variables." I don't have a TM or disk other than the solutions manual. What did your dc do to solve these problems?

 

[Full disclosure: I am the author of Math Without Borders]

 

I don't advocate graphing calculators. The larger display and full keyboard and excellent (often free) software available make computers much more suitable. Calculators should facilitate straightforward, simple calculation, not try to be something they are not. For augmented matrix solutions of systems of equations (in the chapter referred to in the quote) I show the students how to use a spreadsheet. By the time the students have learned to implement the steps of the process in a spreadsheet they will know the algorithm as well or better than having done repeated numerical examples.

 

--David Chandler

[DavidSChandler]

By the way, I am not alone in my opinions expressed in my previous post. Here is a quote from Michel Paul in the MathFuture forum, a gathering of some very creative, innovative teachers:

 

"Yes, I actually believe that the standardization of the TI-83 held math education back tremendously. In the guise of being 'technological' and about the future, an old understanding of both math and technology got perpetuated and cutting edge ideas got dismissed. And it only got worse as the political pressure increased regarding high stakes tests. It enforced the view that the math is 'actually' on a piece of paper and that the technology was merely a tool on the side to aid one in getting the mathematics onto the paper. Wrong. The right technology is both the canvas and the computational tool."

 

I agree with Michel.

 

--David Chandler

[Kendall]

I used the Forester books with no graphing calculator and then did the newer Foerster precalc trig with the graphing calculator. Looking ahead to the next child I'm trying to decide whether to continue the graphing calculator use. I personally only reach for that calculator now, though not to graph.

 

David - do you use the newer Foerster precalc books with grapher or the older editions without?

 

Where could I read more about this "holding back of math education". I'll try that forum, do you have any other sources? I need to think about this.

[Kendall]

I found the answer to my first question. You do use the newer precalc book. Do you think no graphing calculator (or similar computer programs) until precalc is a good(sufficient) policy?