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mastery based math currics?


faiths13
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How mastery-based are you looking for?

 

Have you considered math-u-see?

 

we did MUS fractions for a bit a couple of years ago. I liked it, but I didnt like how the book was only fractions. I would like to have more than just one subject (unless its a shorter book that doesnt take more than say a couple of months or so).

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we did MUS fractions for a bit a couple of years ago. I liked it, but I didnt like how the book was only fractions. I would like to have more than just one subject (unless its a shorter book that doesnt take more than say a couple of months or so).

 

When you say mastery-oriented, what do you mean? What have you tried? Generally mastery-based will have fewer topics per book (MUS is a bit of an extreme) and expect more retention.

 

Also, since you said you tried fractions a few years ago, what ages are you looking for now? That will make a difference in the responses.

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When you say mastery-oriented, what do you mean? What have you tried? Generally mastery-based will have fewer topics per book (MUS is a bit of an extreme) and expect more retention.

 

Also, since you said you tried fractions a few years ago, what ages are you looking for now? That will make a difference in the responses.

 

my ds's are 11 & 13. Still haven't learned fractions. I think I would put them in fractions at this point. We are doing 5th grade CLE and they are still challenged, but not retaining anything. I would say they haven't retained much in the past couple of years. Fewer topics is fine, and I agree MUS is a bit on the extreme side.

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We're MUS fans here. Granted my ds is already a mathy kid but it's amazing how well he can apply all the concepts he's learned. Yes it's mostly focused on only 1 topic throughout the year but as long as you do the review pages other things will be brought up. I think when it comes to a mastery program it's integral (pun? ha!) to stick with that program for the long haul.

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we did MUS fractions for a bit a couple of years ago. I liked it, but I didnt like how the book was only fractions. I would like to have more than just one subject (unless its a shorter book that doesnt take more than say a couple of months or so).

 

The problem with this is neither of your DSs have mastered fractions. So it sounds like this is exactly the kind of thing they need at this point - a book on 'Fractions' until they get it. Then follow it up with a book on Decimals and Percents (Zeta) once fractions are mastered.

 

The benenfit of MUS is that it is very easy to accelerate once they do master concepts. You do can go through the fractions book as quicky as they demonstrate mastery and slow down where they are missing concepts. We have used both MUS and CLE. Some children just do better with mastery vs. spiral. For my girls CLE's spiral approach is best. But my ds11 thrived on MUS. I was able to accelerate Decimals & Percents while simulatenously introducing Pre-Algebra to him. Also note that with MUS most folks don't have their kids do all the sections. Just make sure that when they take the section tests their scores demonstrate a solid comprehension of the material.

 

If you feel MUS is too long maybe the Keys to Fractions Series would be a better/shorter route to take. I haven't used them personally. But the Keys to series seems to be a popular choice for shorter studies.

Edited by dereksurfs
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The problem with this is neither of your DSs have mastered fractions. So it sounds like this is exactly the kind of thing they need at this point - a book on 'Fractions' until they get it. Then follow it up with a book on Decimals and Percents (Zeta) once fractions are mastered.

 

Ayup. I wouldn't worry that much about it being only fractions, as a comprehensive course on fractions should be reviewing just about everything (except possibly long division) from previous years within the course. You can't really do fractions without reviewing addition, subtraction, multiplication, and at least short division.

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:iagree: with Paradox 5. We have been very pleased with Rod & Staff for English and math. Their English program is absolutely stellar! I have learned things that I was never taught, even though I hold a degree in English. :tongue_smilie:

While the S&S of their math program may look behind others, it really works to drive in a solid foundation in basic math to prepare students to excel at higher maths. My DS9 is currently completing the 5th grade math book, and DS11 finished R&S 6 in the spring. He has transitioned seamlessly into Lial's Pre-Algebra for the current school year. I credit the strong base that R&S has given him for much of his success.

Here's the link to view the table of contents for the Grade 5 math book: http://www.milestonebooks.com/item/1-135--/?list=Mathematics_for_Christian_Living_Series

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We are on book 3 on CLE math. I do like it, but I dont find they are retaining it very well. That is why I was going to try a mastery based math instead of spiral. We have done alot of spiral based curric and I dont think I realized it. Now Im seeing its not working well for my kids : (

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I was looking at R&S math, but after looking at the S&S it seems really easy compared to CLE so Im at a loss as they would even start on R&S. MUS looks like something I should look into again. :)

 

Another problem I can see is the inconsistency of switching around too much during the primary years. Since most primary math curricula builds upon itself this becomes disjointed and somewhat confusing for younger kids IMO. If they already have experience with MUS that seems like the most logical choice for mastery work. Or as mentioned you could simply stick with CLE and suppliment with Keys To or somethng like MM topical areas.

 

If you already have MUS you could also use it as the supplimental in the areas which they are weakest in instead of the spine, possibly 2 days of MUS and 3 of CLE. Or CLE in the morning and MUS in the afternoon.

 

How much time do you usually have them spend on their math work daily? Maybe this a season in which they need to step it up a bit to really lock in their elementary skills. Lets say a more math focused semester or two. Some use Summer as a time to catch up or do math camps to really focus on certain areas which may be weak. I guess it really depends on your math goals for them.

Edited by dereksurfs
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Another problem I can see is the inconsistency of switching around too much during the primary years. Since most primary math curricula builds upon itself this becomes disjointed and somewhat confusing for younger kids IMO. If they already have experience with MUS that seems like the most logical choice for mastery. Or as mentioned you could simply stick with CLE and suppliment with Keys To or somethng like MM topical areas.

 

If you already have MUS you could also use it as the supplimental in the areas which they are weakest in instead of the spine, possibly 2 days of MUS and 3 of CLE. Or CLE in the morning and MUS in the afternoon.

 

How much time do you usually have them spend on their math work? Maybe this a season in which they need to step it up a bit to really lock in their elementary skills.

 

We spend an hour a day on math. We dont have any math curric except the book we are working on in CLE and the 2 before. Only my oldest used MUS and that was for about 4 months until the end of school one year. We have switched around partly due to alot of bad advice in the first couple of years as to what to pick. We were with a charter our first year and I was clueless in math so the kids did Spectrum workbooks and ALEX. They hated that so the next year we tried something else. We mostly used MM but I think tried one other thing, I cant remember. I hated MM so this year I tried CLE to see how we liked it. So we actually havent changed math that much, we just havent found a fit that is actually working for the kids.

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We spend an hour a day on math. We dont have any math curric except the book we are working on in CLE and the 2 before. Only my oldest used MUS and that was for about 4 months until the end of school one year. We have switched around partly due to alot of bad advice in the first couple of years as to what to pick. We were with a charter our first year and I was clueless in math so the kids did Spectrum workbooks and ALEX. They hated that so the next year we tried something else. We mostly used MM but I think tried one other thing, I cant remember. I hated MM so this year I tried CLE to see how we liked it. So we actually havent changed math that much, we just havent found a fit that is actually working for the kids.

 

Did your oldest seem to do ok with MUS in those 4 months of usage? I would focus on getting him back on track first since he really needs to lock in his elementary skills before High School. Would you possibly consider a more 'Math focussed' semester or two, like a math bootcamp of sorts (maybe consisting of 1.5-2 hours/day)? :) I know every family has different goals and math is not the only important subject obviously. But for me and my son Math is #1 as it provides the gateway to the sciences and other more advanced subjects in his future.

Edited by dereksurfs
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Did your oldest seem to do ok with MUS in those 4 months of usage? I would focus on getting him back on track first since he really needs to lock in his elementary skills before High School. Would you possibly consider a more math focussed Semester or two, like a math bootcamp of sorts? :) I know every family has different goals and math is not the only important subject obviously. But for me math and my son Math is #1 as it provides the gateway to the sciences and other more advanced subjects in his future.

 

i havent found any math that he does ok with yet - he loathes it and that is a huge block to his learning.

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i havent found any math that he does ok with yet - he loathes it and that is a huge block to his learning.

 

Then I wonder if the problem isn't the math program as much as the student. Is this the 13 y.o.? Could there be any learning issues?

 

What levels or topics did he actually complete in MM? Or did you switch before completion?

 

eta, in this case I'd be wondering whether there are weaknesses in understanding of basic concepts, and whether it might be worth some time whipping through something like Miquon to shore up such weaknesses before pressing forward with fractions. I would want to add a more conceptual component to the instruction in Key to Fractions - maybe c-rods and Rosie's videos, something like that. It might be well worth the effort.

Edited by wapiti
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i havent found any math that he does ok with yet - he loathes it and that is a huge block to his learning.

 

Wow, I haven't heard of too many that loathe MUS, CLE and MM. Maybe there is a preference for one over the other. But hating all of them is not a good thing and could mean other issues are involved. I would say there a two basic ways to go:

 

1. Continue with something they already use like CLE or MUS. Plug and chug through it with help and supplimentals as needed.

 

2. Involve both boys in reviewing several options of your chosing. Then find out which they prefer. I personally like to involve our kids in the process within limits of course. But I don't know if yet another new curriculum is really the answer here.

 

Either way I would say its time to buckle down and really focus on getting these areas down. If extra time is needed then so be it IMO.

 

I am really not ok with any child hating math. I realize its not going to be everyone's favorite subject. But its important I think to try make it a little more enjoyable if at all possible. That's why we also use game supplimentals as well like DreamBox and Hands on Equations among others. Hopefully you can find something to get him beyond this stage.

 

Another consideration is this hatered toward all these programs is really rooted in his frustration of not understanding certain topics rather the curricula itself. In that case possibly a tutor could help in achieving some break throughs?

Edited by dereksurfs
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OK you have and are using CLE right now? Is it everything or does he get certain parts and some things just need more practice?

 

You said you used MM last year. Do you have the complete series? I do, and while I do not use this as my main curric I find it useful at times, and it's cheap.

 

What I do: I follow the scope and sequence of SM, but often I pull things out of MM. I have a young advanced math kid, so sometimes we need to back up or slow down. For example, we are in SM 5 and just started the fractions. He needs more review before moving on in this section of SM, so I have some worksheets from MM 4 and 5 for review before moving on. But I still follow the S&S of SM5.

 

I do think you need a "spine" in a sense so you don't get too off track and have a course to follow. But you can use MM or other material to solidify or review things that need it.

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He has always hated math - it isnt the math program its math. He is just a negative person. He doesnt have a learning disability. He hates anything that is a challenge and makes him work. That is his personality. We didnt finish MM last year and I dont think it would have mattered if it did. He didnt learn much from it. And I just couldnt do the program so we wont be going back to it. We then just spent alot of time on just multiplication because neither had even mastered that. We spent several months on that and my oldest still hadnt really mastered it but we moved on this year anyway.

 

I dont plan on staying with CLE - its not working for them. They need a mastery based math so they can actually learn each concept, CLE isnt. I printed out a MUS sample for them and we're working on it. With the CLE it just isnt spending time teaching them one thing so they get it. It touches several topics each lesson and then eventually they start to get it. I dont think that is a good idea and we spend lots of time going over the work they completed every day to correct it.

Edited by faiths13
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He has always hated math - it isnt the math program its math. He is just a negative person. He doesnt have a learning disability. He hates anything that is a challenge and makes him work. That is his personality. We didnt finish MM last year and I dont think it would have mattered if it did. He didnt learn much from it. And I just couldnt do the program so we wont be going back to it. We then just spent alot of time on just multiplication because neither had even mastered that. We spent several months on that and my oldest still hadnt really mastered it but we moved on this year anyway.

 

I dont plan on staying with CLE - its not working for them. They need a mastery based math so they can actually learn each concept, CLE isnt. I printed out a MUS sample for them and my 11 yr old finished it and my 13 yr old says its too hard and is about to cry. So I dunno.

 

What I was trying to ask is what levels or topics, specifically, they tried but did not learn from in MM, as a point of reference.

 

IMO, you need to back way up. How can they learn fractions if multiplication is a struggle conceptually??? Cuisenaire rods and Rosies' videos. I'd begin at the beginning, and I would literally do little else until the basic understanding is in place. Math is so much easier when the foundation is solid.

 

And, IMO you need to ask yourself what is going on with the 13 y.o. I see major red flags for learning issues (which could be as simple as vision or something) - a 13 y.o. who hasn't mastered multiplication despite having spent a lot of time on it (in grade level terms, that's 4 or 5 years behind average). Now is the time to find out about that, to get things squared away, before high school. Better late than never.

Edited by wapiti
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He has always hated math - it isnt the math program its math. He is just a negative person. He doesnt have a learning disability. He hates anything that is a challenge and makes him work. That is his personality...

 

 

Then this sounds like a maturity issue. Life is hard as is anything worth working toward. So there is no getting out of working hard. At 13 its important to develop this work ethic.

 

And he is a teenager now. If he doesn't have a learning dissability maybe he's depressed? I agree with wapiti. Something else is seems to be going on here. Does he enjoy any of his subjects?

Edited by dereksurfs
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i appreciate the help with finding out about the math programs and id like to leave this thread about that and that alone.

 

I think some are trying to figure out what it is you do not like and why.

 

You have tried several, and I can't think of much else. Have you looked at SM?

 

SM is what I use, but it IS challenging. You could back up a bit. I sit down and work through the textbook with them, and then the workbook is independent. They do cost a little more, but IMO it is worth every penny. Math does take a lot of though. But I do think that SM does a better job at really teaching the concepts and not just some memorization.

 

The most important thing is to find a curric that you think is best, and stick with it. They may revolt for a while, but consistency is important. Many kids do not like math, and they do not like to work at something challenging. Just try to keep positive about it, and work through it with him. The good thing about SM is you can do the TB together. The HIG can be very helpful if you are not confident teaching math.

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I understand I need to stick to one thing and as I said I haven't actually switched math that many times. I dont mind questions being asked about what I did/didn't like, but I dont like speculation that there is something wrong with my ds.

 

I don't think anyone is saying there is something wrong with him. There has been a lot of good advice and suggestions here, but you seem to be taking offense when that is completely not the intent.

 

I have tried to offer several suggestions. I do think taking a look at SM is a good idea for you. There is definitely teacher instruction and IMO it is one of the most solid math programs. And if you have MM, that works well for extra practice or if you need a different approach to a certain topic.

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The reason people are asking other questions is because, if there are other issues causing the lack of knowledge and retention in math, changing to a different curriculum and hoping retention will increase may do nothing other than waste your time and money.

 

Since you said he just hates math in general, pick the curriculum YOU like and stick with it. I would go with MUS because I think the video instruction will be the help you said math mammoth is lacking.

 

Whatever curriculum you choose, I would definitely have him do the placement tests. If, as you said, he doesn't really 'get' multiplication (with whole numbers) there is no real point working on multiplication (with fractions).

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I understand I need to stick to one thing and as I said I haven't actually switched math that many times. I dont mind questions being asked about what I did/didn't like, but I dont like speculation that there is something wrong with my ds.

 

faiths13,

 

I apologize if anything I said offended you. That wasn't the intent. I, along with others, are simply trying to understand the root of the problem related to your ds's math roadblocks. Is it really a curriculum issue? Since you said yourself "it isnt the math program its math" itself, this begs the question of what *will* really work? I agree with Kiana that picking something like MUS and working through it is a good way to go. Maybe a tutor could help as well if he is still getting stuck.

Edited by dereksurfs
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do you have links to the last two - im having a hard time finding them. thanks!

 

Here's a link to Mastering Mathematics. The books are:

 

Attacking Addition

Subduing Subtraction

Mastering Multiplication

Defeating Division

Perfecting the Point

Finishing Fractions

 

Here's another link to Mastering Mathematics....what they say caught my eye:

This series would also be good for the older student who needs to catch up on basic math skills. There are late bloomers and students with learning gaps who simply can't go forward in math until the basics are mastered. This program fits the bill. Using the placement test, you can find and focus on the gaps allowing the student to skip the areas that have been grasped.

Rainbow Resource also carries it, but just the sets.

 

Developmental Mathematics is here. And, here are placement tests. DM is written to the student. I've been told that it's similar to Key To, but it covers more concepts than Key To does.

Edited by ~AprilMay~
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I just thought I'd chime in here and say I get it. I have a negative attitude, math hating kid here, too. I switched math too many times when he was younger trying to see if it was the curriculum or just the kid. I finally decided that it was him! We went back to Singapore because it was what I loved and that was it. He worked through it. He did workbooks twice sometimes (or the extra practice books). I printed worksheets from the internet to supplement. It is hard to teach a math hater, I agree. Good luck!

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The reason people are asking other questions is because, if there are other issues causing the lack of knowledge and retention in math, changing to a different curriculum and hoping retention will increase may do nothing other than waste your time and money.

 

This.

 

I apologize if anything I said offended you. That wasn't the intent. I, along with others, are simply trying to understand the root of the problem related to your ds's math roadblocks. Is it really a curriculum issue? Since you said yourself "it isnt the math program its math" itself, this begs the question of what *will* really work? I agree with Kiana that picking something like MUS and working through it is a good way to go. Maybe a tutor could help as well if he is still getting stuck.

 

This too. Just looking for the root of the problem. Not knowing the root of the problem or even why a particular math program was ineffective for a student makes it difficult to recommend alternatives. (For older kids, two or more years below grade level is one rule of thumb for considering learning issues, that's all. FWIW, such issues are not indicative of a person's intelligence, and understanding how a child's specific strengths and weaknesses can affect their learning can be a huge help in teaching a struggling student.)

 

Whatever math program you choose, I would back up to review more basic concepts than you may think they need and then move them ahead as quickly as they are able.

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I just thought I'd chime in here and say I get it. I have a negative attitude, math hating kid here, too. I switched math too many times when he was younger trying to see if it was the curriculum or just the kid. I finally decided that it was him! We went back to Singapore because it was what I loved and that was it. He worked through it. He did workbooks twice sometimes (or the extra practice books). I printed worksheets from the internet to supplement. It is hard to teach a math hater, I agree. Good luck!

 

This sounds like a good approach you took with him. I would be curious if he still feels the same way about math or if he had any breakthroughs along the way? Our middle daughter definately doesn't love math. Though she does enjoy CLE more than MUS. And so we continue to plod along even though it may never be her favorite subject. Though she does enjoy DreamBox.

Edited by dereksurfs
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Here's a link to Mastering Mathematics. The books are:

 

Attacking Addition

Subduing Subtraction

Mastering Multiplication

Defeating Division

Perfecting the Point

Finishing Fractions

 

Here's another link to Mastering Mathematics....what they say caught my eye:

 

This series would also be good for the older student who needs to catch up on basic math skills. There are late bloomers and students with learning gaps who simply can't go forward in math until the basics are mastered. This program fits the bill. Using the placement test, you can find and focus on the gaps allowing the student to skip the areas that have been grasped.

 

Rainbow Resource also carries it, but just the sets.

 

Developmental Mathematics is here. And, here are placement tests. DM is written to the student. I've been told that it's similar to Key To, but it covers more concepts than Key To does.

 

thanks!

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