Jennefer@SSA Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 My 11yo son just finished Horizons 6. He is not ready to jump right into Algebra and we have plenty of time so we want to spend time doing a pre-algebra program to give him the best chance of success in Forester's or Jacob's. I have never used MUS but have wanted to use their algebra for a pre-algebra based on the recommendation of other moms on this board from years ago. After reading old threads though my head is spinning. I am NOT mathy and I am wondering if I should get the MUS pre-algebra. I know MUS is not as strong as other programs and that is why it was recommended to use their Algebra as pre-algebra. How hard is MUS Algebra for a non-mathy mom? My son is much more mathy than I but struggles to maintain focus and tends to make lots of careless errors in his math. I read some posts from different moms saying they were having a really hard time helping their child with MUS Algebra and it gave me cold feet. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlylocks Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 MUS offers a free placement test on their website. I would print it out and administer it... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 MUS offers a free placement test on their website. I would print it out and administer it... :) Thank you, I didn't know about those. Okay I just looked over the pre-algebra competency test and ds could do about half of it (obviously an educated guess). He wouldn't be able to complete any of the algebra. Since those are competency tests they are assessing if the child has mastered the concepts assuming they have already had background in the area being tested. So my question is slightly altered...if he can do half of the pre-algebra would he be bored starting there? And how hard is this program for mom to implement and help her child with if she is not a mathy person? Start with pre-algebra or algebra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 If he has been doing well with Horizons, why switch? Why not do their pre-algebra (which I have not personally seen, but have heard good reviews of) and then move into the algebra you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 We are using Horizon Pre-Algebra and love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 My hesitation is using something that is so new. I would love to hear from anyone who has used Horizons pre-algebra and successfully transitioned their child to one of the programs I mentioned. Plus I wonder if ds might need a different approach. We've been doing Horizons for seven years. A change of pace might be nice. Or maybe I'd lose my mind :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 We're only part way through, but I think there would be no problem transitioning from Horizons Pre-A to any of the common Algebra 1 programs, with the possible exception of AOPS Intro to Algebra (you'd probably want to do AOPS Pre-A before that). Horizons also just came out with their own Algebra 1, though I haven't heard any reviews/first impressions about it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) My 11yo son just finished Horizons 6. He is not ready to jump right into Algebra and we have plenty of time so we want to spend time doing a pre-algebra program to give him the best chance of success in Forester's or Jacob's. I have never used MUS but have wanted to use their algebra for a pre-algebra based on the recommendation of other moms on this board from years ago. After reading old threads though my head is spinning. I am NOT mathy and I am wondering if I should get the MUS pre-algebra. I know MUS is not as strong as other programs and that is why it was recommended to use their Algebra as pre-algebra. How hard is MUS Algebra for a non-mathy mom? My son is much more mathy than I but struggles to maintain focus and tends to make lots of careless errors in his math. I read some posts from different moms saying they were having a really hard time helping their child with MUS Algebra and it gave me cold feet. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. MUS is very easy to use for a non-mathy mom. Our ds11 used MUS from Primer thru Pre-A and we used it almost entirely as an independent program. After using MUS from the very beginning we were ready for a change during Pre-A. I wanted something a bit more challenging for secondary math. So we moved to TabletClass Pre-Algebra. You can see my review of it here: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=429333&highlight=tabletclass From the reviews I read of Horizons Pre-A it sounds like a solid program. However it was also noted to take some mental leaps. Based on those I'm not sure it would be as independent for non-mathy moms as other options. Unless you are considering using MUS longer term I woudn't necessarily recommend switching from Horizons to MUS only for Pre-A training. IMO that's a bit too much jumping around for what you will gain in the shorter term. Instead consider staying with Horizons through Pre-A then switching or using something you would consider using for Algebra and beyond as well. Edited October 23, 2012 by dereksurfs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hi Jennefer, I can't address the Horizon's pre-alg/alg piece, but Horizons 6 to MUS alg has been a perfect step for my kids for pre-alg. It is very easy to teach and in concrete terms. I haven't seen the "honors" problems that have been incorporated into the texts since I still use my old alg/geo combo as pre-alg/pre-geo, but WendyK (I think I have the right name) has been using it as pre-alg for one of her kids and might be able to address their difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I can't speak to the MUS Algebra, but I have the pre-alg here. I have looked at MANY pre-alg programs trying to decide for this yr, and based on that, I don't think the MUS pre-alg looks very complete-it seems to jump around and cover strange topics (like Celsius to Farenheit and vice versa). No real progression of topics, etc. I remember reading somewhere that it was kind of a catch-all year in the MUS progression to go over some topics they hadn't covered plus some pre-alg. I just use it to fill in conceptual understanding to our Saxon 8/7. I can't imagine how it would go just using this as your only pre-algebra. That's just my opinion. Looking at the TOC for their algebra, it seems like it would be a better fit for what you're asking, and especially for a mathy boy. I like MUS a lot, don't get me wrong! Dd and I just went quickly through a few of their other dvds for review to give her some conceptual, and they helped a lot! Just not sure if the pre-alg would be complete enough for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 No one mentioned it - but Saxon 1/2 is supposed to be a good transition from Horixons 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I can't speak to the MUS Algebra, but I have the pre-alg here. I have looked at MANY pre-alg programs trying to decide for this yr, and based on that, I don't think the MUS pre-alg looks very complete-it seems to jump around and cover strange topics (like Celsius to Farenheit and vice versa). No real progression of topics, etc. I remember reading somewhere that it was kind of a catch-all year in the MUS progression to go over some topics they hadn't covered plus some pre-alg. I just use it to fill in conceptual understanding to our Saxon 8/7. I can't imagine how it would go just using this as your only pre-algebra. That's just my opinion. Looking at the TOC for their algebra, it seems like it would be a better fit for what you're asking, and especially for a mathy boy. That is why we used MUS Pre-A initially. MUS does leave some topics normally covered in others programs until Pre-A. After finishing the first ~ 8 chapters we moved to another Pre-A program. If we hadn't used MUS all the way through I wouldn't have selected it for Pre-A. Regarding the honors questions we do have the latest version with those as well. And while they do add a little more challenge I still do not consider it the strongest of programs for Pre-A. Whether one uses MUS Algebra as a Pre-A is another thing really. And that could be done with any easier Algebra program such as Jacobs, TT, etc... I think spending more time on Algebra itself is a great idea and plan to do the same thing. But I'd rather use other progams for it such as TabletClass, Foerster and Zaccaro's Real World Algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabel Lee Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Whether one uses MUS Algebra as a Pre-A is another thing really. And that could be done with any easier Algebra program such as Jacobs, TT, etc... I think spending more time on Algebra itself is a great idea and plan to do the same thing. But I'd rather use other progams for it such as TabletClass, Foerster and Zaccaro's Real World Algebra. I'm following with interest here as I use Horizons elementary grade math as well. I remember those old threads and took notes outlining my post-6th grade math options. Can you please expand on what you mean by Jacobs being an easier Algebra program? I'm not challenging the notion, I'm just wondering what about it is different from Foerster's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hi Jennefer, I can't address the Horizon's pre-alg/alg piece, but Horizons 6 to MUS alg has been a perfect step for my kids for pre-alg. It is very easy to teach and in concrete terms. I haven't seen the "honors" problems that have been incorporated into the texts since I still use my old alg/geo combo as pre-alg/pre-geo, but WendyK (I think I have the right name) has been using it as pre-alg for one of her kids and might be able to address their difficulty. The concrete aspect of MUS is what I am most drawn to. I think ds would benefit for this really concrete base before moving on to a full Algebra I program like Forester's or Jacob's. Here is another question for you...since MUS doesn't offer their pre-alg/pre-geo combo anymore would you suggest doing both MUS Algebra and MUS Geometry BEFORE Algebra I? We have some time since he is only 3 months into 6th grade. I want to be sure we have this foundation down solid before moving onto higher maths. Or would it make more sense to do MUS Algebra I, Forester's or Jacob's Algebra I, MUS Geometry as pre-geo and then a full geometry program (tbd)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 MUS is very easy to use for a non-mathy mom. Our ds11 used MUS from Primer thru Pre-A and we used it almost entirely as an independent program. From the reviews I read of Horizons Pre-A it sounds like a solid program. However it was also noted to take some mental leaps. Based on those I'm not sure it would be as independent for non-mathy moms as other options. This is very helpful. Thank you! Those mental leaps are what have me concerned as he struggled a bit with Horizons 6 and some of the mental leaps that were required there. We go through them but I'd like him to have a different experience before moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 I can't speak to the MUS Algebra, but I have the pre-alg here. I have looked at MANY pre-alg programs trying to decide for this yr, and based on that, I don't think the MUS pre-alg looks very complete-it seems to jump around and cover strange topics (like Celsius to Farenheit and vice versa). No real progression of topics, etc. I remember reading somewhere that it was kind of a catch-all year in the MUS progression to go over some topics they hadn't covered plus some pre-alg. I just use it to fill in conceptual understanding to our Saxon 8/7. I can't imagine how it would go just using this as your only pre-algebra. That's just my opinion. Looking at the TOC for their algebra, it seems like it would be a better fit for what you're asking, and especially for a mathy boy. I like MUS a lot, don't get me wrong! Dd and I just went quickly through a few of their other dvds for review to give her some conceptual, and they helped a lot! Just not sure if the pre-alg would be complete enough for you. This was my thinking as well. Much of what they call pre-alg is covered in Horizons 6. I am leaning towards ordering MUS Algebra but considering it our pre-al. Thank you for your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Jennefer, The book was MUS Algebra and Geometry. My understanding is that they did not change the content of the books but simply divide the book into the separate texts: an alg text and a geo text. Sometime recently the incorporated their honors questions into the text themselves. I haven't seen the new texts, but my kids have had no problem finishing the combo book in a single yr. I do not think it is necessary to do the geo book before a geo program. It has just made moving into a geo program lots of initial review. My dd is doing Patty Paper Geometry this yr along w/her geo program and she really enjoys it, so adding it to MUS alg might be another option. (Ask Sue in St. Pete b/c she is the one that introduced me to Patty Paper and I think that is what she did.) FWIW, after MUS's alg my kids have found the first 5 chpts of Foerster's review. I am pretty sure that it is in chpt 6 where new material is introduced (I'm too lazy to go dig out my copy and look for sure.) HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in STL Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 We are using AoPS pre-A. I wouldn't say I'm non-mathy so idk how that would apply to you. I'm not a math major or anything but I did well in high school through Calc. My son is mathy as far as problem solving. He is ADHD and tends to make careless comp. errors but can always go back and fix them. He knows his facts in and out but goes too fast! I love the explanation aspect of AoPS. Also that it makes ds think about the math before telling him what to do. With a traditional approach, he would start doing before thinking(ADHD at work again). I have him in the online class, but we do the book together before class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 My hesitation is using something that is so new. I would love to hear from anyone who has used Horizons pre-algebra and successfully transitioned their child to one of the programs I mentioned. Plus I wonder if ds might need a different approach. We've been doing Horizons for seven years. A change of pace might be nice. Or maybe I'd lose my mind :tongue_smilie: We went from Horizons 6, to Horizons pre-algebra (it was brand new at the time). My son went from that to Jacobs Algebra this year. Horizons pre-algebra was definitely challenging enough, in fact we didn't quite finish, but I wasn't worried because the stuff we missed was well into algebra and I knew it would be covered this year. I liked the math minutes with people who actually use math on their jobs. I like Horizons because it's spiral, but not TOO spiral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 If your using Horizon's 6 then why not the PreAlgebra for 7? They also came out with Algebra one in Sept too. We're using Horizon's 7 Pre Algebra and so far my daughter is enjoying it. And that's something said because she's so picky with math curriculum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dereksurfs Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I'm following with interest here as I use Horizons elementary grade math as well. I remember those old threads and took notes outlining my post-6th grade math options. Can you please expand on what you mean by Jacobs being an easier Algebra program? I'm not challenging the notion, I'm just wondering what about it is different from Foerster's? Jacobs is known to contain a lot of Pre-Algebra review making it easier to start out with. Beyond the initial review I understand its pretty solid. I would think more so in terms of rigor than TT or MUS. It just depends on what one is looking for in an initial Algebra 1 course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennefer@SSA Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Thanks everyone for all your help. I am going to spend the next few days looking at all the options and making a final decision. I appreciate all the advice as we are truly venturing into uncharted waters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyGrace Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Keep us posted on what you decide! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennyradmer Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 We were planning to do the Horizons 7th grade Pre-algebra with my 7th grader but found Abeka pre-algebra for $10 and decided to give it a shot. It is intended for 8th grade but has been perfect for my daughter. It looks very similar to the Horizons pre-alg and either should be a good prep for algebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 How about Teaching Textooks. they have placement tests to decide which level, but we are LOVING LOVING LOVING the pre-algebra so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.