Should I get my child tested?

[dangermom]

I haven't been around much lately, but my daughter just turned 8 and is, I would say, pretty bright. She's not highly gifted or anything, but she's bright and working above grade level in everything (she's going into 3rd--we just use age levels and do what we want). She's always had very good small motor skills, and probably reads at a high-school level at least--she has enjoyed books like The prince and the pauper and The wonderful adventures of Nils, that sort of thing. She hasn't met a book she couldn't handle--and yet she still likes "Pony Pals" because she likes horses, heh.

 

At a guess, I'd say her IQ is somewhere between 130-140. Not brilliant or anything, just bright. She's probably smarter than I am, and I'm 132, so that's what I'm basing it on. (I hope it's not considered weird to say that, but I figure you're all smarter than me too, so why worry?)

 

So for the first time I'm wondering if I ought to get her tested, and whether it would help us at all. I feel capable of handling her education for the next several years, I'm not planning on putting her into PS anytime soon. I don't know of any reason I should do it, but OTOH I'm probably missing something.

 

So, all you more experienced parents--would testing be worth the trouble, at this age and considering what we're doing? Would it help me at all? Maybe I should add that we live in Northern CA, and our city is not very large. I don't know that there are a ton of resources for us here.

[nmoira]

So, all you more experienced parents--would testing be worth the trouble, at this age and considering what we're doing? Would it help me at all? Maybe I should add that we live in Northern CA, and our city is not very large. I don't know that there are a ton of resources for us here.

I would consider testing for any of the following reasons (this is generally, not specific to your situation):

 

(1) to qualify for the Davidson Young Scholar Program or other program;

(2) if I suspected an LD that might be masked;

(3) if the local school system offered a gifted program and I wanted proof in case something happened to me such that we couldn't homeschool (e.g. ours has a magnet program for highly gifted students);

 

Here's Hoagies page about Why to Test. I'm considering testing my oldest later this year, for purposes (1) and (3).

[JenneinCA]

Kpzz was a more vocal member here earlier, but she has moved on. She had three good reasons to test.

 

Quoting from her old post:

 

"I can think of only three good reasons to test: (1) to give parents the confidence they need to make significant changes to their child's educational situation; (2) to gain entrance into an already-existing program that requires such scores; and (3) to uncover previously unsuspected learning disabilities."

 

If none of those are matching with your situation then don't test. Save the money and use it for something else.

 

For us, testing was necessary for all of the "good reasons". I hope that helps.

 

Jenne in AZ

[dangermom]

OK, thanks for the replies. I don't think she has any hidden LD's. The only reason that really applies to us is just in case I want to put her in school. There is a GATE program (both pull-out and full-time available) which I would definitely want to put her in; I think she would be very bored in a regular classroom. I'm not actually very sure what the standards are for the class, but I don't think they're very high--an awful lot of kids I know seem to qualify (which is good, I guess? I just mean that most of them aren't obviously gifted and bored silly in a regular classroom). But I have no plans to put her in school; it would be a "just-in-case" deal. So probably I won't bother anytime soon.

 

Thanks for helping me figure this out a little better. Now I'm thinking that I'll call up the school and get a little more information, just to satisfy my curiousity. I wonder what they do with highly gifted kids in this district? I really don't think that the current GATE program would be sufficient.

 

More replies would be welcome! I feel like we're entering a new stage now that she's getting older and it's looking like uncharted waters.

[dangermom]

I think what partly got me into this thinking was this:

Q. When and how should students be tested for giftedness?

The optimal age for assessment is between the ages of four and nine. In general, testing a child when he/she is younger can be more revealing than testing an older child.

 

Any thoughts on this? Your experience?

[nmoira]

I think what partly got me into this thinking was this:

 

Any thoughts on this? Your experience?

For most kids this would be true. However, exceptionally gifted children can start hitting test ceilings by age 8.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Sometimes the school, even if you have paid for private testing, will want to do their own testing. You might want to call whatever schools you may consider in the future, ask if they accept private testing, and if so, who they would suggest.

[dangermom]

For most kids this would be true. However, exceptionally gifted children can start hitting test ceilings by age 8.

Hm. See, this presses all my worried-parent buttons! If I don't get her tested in the right window, we'll never have a good assessment of her abilities and she'll never reach her potential and I will have failed her! :crying:

 

Maybe it's not really that bad, though.

 

For the first time it occurred to me to look at the local school's website and see what it said about GATE programs. It doesn't really say much about the standards to get in--they rely on several different criteria, including STAR testing and the GATE test. (However we have a friend who recently did private testing, so I think they accept that too.) What I noticed was that it states that there's no acceleration--the kids do grade-level work and have "broader, deeper" studies within that. Which probably works fine for history, but I'm thinking not with math. Maybe I'll call them next week and ask some questions, which will apparently only confirm my thinking that homeschooling is good for us.

 

Probably you're all bored with explaining all this yet again to the newbie. Sorry, but thanks for the help! :001_smile:

[nmoira]

 

Hm. See, this presses all my worried-parent buttons! If I don't get her tested in the right window, we'll never have a good assessment of her abilities and she'll never reach her potential and I will have failed her! :crying:

No.... it wouldn't be like that. :) Say she hits a ceiling in one of the subtests, then it would be like not knowing if she were *really, really, really* bright in that area, or *really, really, really, really* bright. For most purposes it wouldn't matter terribly.

[KAR120C]

Hm. See, this presses all my worried-parent buttons! If I don't get her tested in the right window, we'll never have a good assessment of her abilities and she'll never reach her potential and I will have failed her! :crying:

 

Maybe it's not really that bad, though.

Not getting tested is not the same as not having a good assessment of her abilities, not the same as not reaching her potential, and definitely not the same as failing her! :)

 

If you feel pretty confident that you know what she can do, you are almost certainly right. A test is most likely to reinforce what you already know better from direct observation. If you were saying that she was a puzzle to you, or that there were things you thought you were missing, then sure, a test might tease out the confusing bits, but otherwise you might be disappointed. They're not magical. ;)

 

As far as reaching her potential and not failing her... if she's working hard and doing well, she is reaching her potential. If you aren't sure her placement is appropriate, the most important data you can get will be from curriculum-specific testing (placement tests) rather than the more-generic IQ or achievement testing. And if you're paying attention and doing your best (remembering that none of us is perfect!) then you're certainly not failing her!

 

And I agree with what nmoira says too, although I'd even take it a step further... If she hits a ceiling I agree that you're distinguishing between really really really bright and really really really really bright, but also if you're past, say, 130 or so, you're into a range where a) the tests aren't quite as reliable as we'd like and b) there is so much individual variation that even if you had a magically perfect assessment, you'd still need a lot more information about who she is as an individual, which is what you know better from being her mom and paying attention. :) Two kids who test at 145 have something in common but are likely also extremely different from each other. Where the tests really shine I think is where they show discrepancies -- high verbal and low perceptual, or high verbal and perceptual but really really low working memory or processing speed... those things that can show up in real life as quirky little difficulties in unexpected places.

 

So you're doing fine, and I wouldn't bother with a test. Unless there's something you think you're missing, your observations are worth a great deal more than any test!

[threetreasurs]

My kids are older now and I don't personally think that you will fail a gifted kid by not testing them early. They will continue to be gifted and if placed at too low a level in school, teachers should notice - especially in high school which is highly tracked.

 

I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this and realize that I may also be a bit naive.

 

Though my daughter had been eligible for Midwest Talent search and could have taken the SAT early I didn't go that route. Basically, I did not want to put so much of our time into the testing process but thought it more interesting to spend our time reading books, volunteering etc.

 

Last year, we decided to place my daughter in school full-time. We did run into trouble with placement since the school is/was hesitant to take a mother's evaluation of her daughter's giftedness. Seems they deal with many pushy parents who think their kids are gifted, sometimes rightfully so, sometimes not.

 

The funny thing was that because of math wars through the years, I could place my child in any math class that I wanted - they had a program in place to deal, immediately, with students struggling in math class. But without an SAT or ACT score I could not put her in the English class where I thought she belonged. The school said that their science program was very strong and they did not recommend her taking Chemistry as a Sophomore even though she had done Biology as a freshman.

 

Math worked out perfectly where we placed her. They were correct that the science program was very strong. My daughter loved her Biology teacher and said the class was not a repeat of what she had studied with Apologia the previous year. They did many labs, dissections etc that we had not done at home (could have but didn't!). She is on track to take AP Bio as a senior.

 

Social Studies (History) was a bust for various reasons - teacher gone a lot. Mostly textbook teaching. Rehash of what she had studied previously etc. Yet my daughter applied for and got into AP Gov as a junior, which is extremely rare.

 

She loved her English teacher though the content of the class was not the greatest and was recommended to skip up a level for next year.

 

High school was a definite adjustment for someone who had home schooled all her life; the main adjustment being that no matter what is going on in the student's life, school marches on. The student is expected to catch up and keep learning new material as soon as they return from illness, death in the family, or whatever else happens.

 

Don't know if this isn't too much detail, but I typed all this up to reassure those with younger kids that parents won't ruin a gifted kid by not testing. Also, you can work with public schools to correctly place your child, but it might take a bit of patience.:tongue_smilie:

[dangermom]

Thanks so much everyone, you've really helped me. :001_smile: It's so helpful to read all of your thoughts and insights!

[purplecow7]

I would go with the first question is why test? I never wanted to have my children defined by a number. However with that said after my son did ok on the school given CogAT and the NNAT he did not qualify for the gifted program. We decided to have him tested with the WISCIV - these test scores allowed him to go into the GT center class. This has been a great experience for him.

 

Oh and just to let you know Gifted is usually defined as an IQ over 130.

[SkateLeft]

I'll let others address the testing issues, but I wanted to let you know that if you're anywhere near Sacramento, you can have your child tested at CSU Sacramento. The other CSUs may offer the same thing. At Sac State, they use the WISC, and it's administered by supervised graduate students. Obviously, it's not the ideal (especially if you're interested in something like DYS) but it is inexpensive (about $80) and good if you're just doing it for your own information.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

FWIW- we used a local university for our testing and dd qualified for DYS.

[Handmaiden]

FWIW- we used a local university for our testing and dd qualified for DYS.

 

What is DYS?

 

(Still learning all the acronyms!)

[nmoira]

 

What is DYS?

Davidson Young Scholar

 

[JenneinCA]

DYS is Davidson Young Scholars.

[dangermom]

Yeah, I live in Chico--Sac State wouldn't be difficult to do, but possibly we could do it here too if we decided to. Thanks. I think I'll look into that, just so we know where we are.

 

I really doubt that my kid would be eligible for things like DYS--she's just not in that bracket, as far as I can tell. Although I'm no expert on intelligence, I would be very surprised to see her score over 140 on an IQ test.

 

Looking more at the public school's GATE program, we've decided that there's no way* she'll be going to PS until 9th grade (if then--we have not decided one way or the other). I just don't care for the way they structure it; I think they could do better for most gifted kids. I can't see at all how they deal with highly gifted children, though that doesn't affect me personally. In high school things loosen up a lot and there's much more opportunity and flexibility.

 

I never gave it much thought before, since GATE doesn't start until 3rd grade; she was too young. We've homeschooled since the beginning because we wanted to, not because we were forced out of PS or anything, but I have always been convinced that she would be both bored and overlooked in the early grades. AFAICT most teachers spend most of their energy on the struggling kids (who need it) and the ones who aren't crying out for individual attention mostly don't get it (though they need it too).

 

 

*Well, never say never, but barring some circumstance that forces my kids into PS...

[danielle]

I do think there's a reason to test--for the parents, not the kid! Way back when (2nd grade) when we decided to have dd tested because she was doing so poorly in school and they were suggesting holding her back a year, I can remember the drive up to the tester's office. Dh and I were guessing dd's possible IQ while she slept in the back seat. We decided it was probably 140--I mean, we knew she was smart, but she'd never read early or any other "early" marker that would have jolted us.

 

On the way home we were square-mouthed. She had topped out of that IQ test and had to have further testing done (at that time, using the Stanford LM). She topped out on most of the measures on that one, too. The tester said she should have been tested at 4 or 5, and that it was "too late" to get the real picture. I decided that maybe a precise number didn't matter--scary smart was good enough!:001_smile: But if we had had the testing done earlier, we might have had the ammunition we needed with the school, and made better early decisions. After the testing, she never went back to school. Now she's a rising "9th" grader but academically she's doing all college level work. Which is why we can't send her to the local high school (and she won't go) and mommy never gets any peace and quiet.

 

However, as I say to dd all the time, potential is not achievement. Any gifted kid has just that--a gift that makes some things easier. What they do with it is another area. I urge you to read "Mindset" by Carol Dweck and avoid a lot of the mistakes we've made around giftedness. It's a really great book.

Danielle

[nmoira]

 

I urge you to read "Mindset" by Carol Dweck and avoid a lot of the mistakes we've made around giftedness. It's a really great book.

I heartily concur.

[dangermom]

I always love to read, so I have put the book on hold at the library. Thanks, and any other book recommendations would be great!

[dmchr6]

We did test my oldest on the recommendation of his vision therapist, but only because we lived near one of the nation's premier gifted testing centers and were able to get an intern to do it for a hugely discounted rate. Ask around if you can get an intern anywhere!

 

It confirmed that he was very bright (I could finally prove to dh that the kids was actually smarter than most, lol). And he did hit the ceiling on a few of the tests, but who cares.

 

I've never told him his IQ and I don't think I will, since of course he's smart and already knows it. The main think I got out of testing, though was his learning style, which really explained why he seemed so bright, but didn't do simple things like read until he was 6 (but went from beginning phonics to harry potter in 6 months), or memorize his math facts until he was... well... much much older.

 

He's never been in school since kindergarten, and now he's high school age, so gifted programs don't matter so much anymore. I was just glad to have the test so that I could let his varied abilities develop at their own pace and let him be a kid.

 

That said, I won't get any of the siblings tested. They do say that generally sibs are within 10 points of each other on the IQ test. Don't know if that's true, but good enough for me!

[Sandra in FL]

Two were gifted and one was not. The test results did confirm a lot of what I suspected about each child's strengths and weaknesses. If it's free, why not? Here in S. Florida, I think they are administering non-language dependent IQ tests to weed out those gifted kids who speak a non-English language at home.

 

Also, once a child's entered in the ps computer as gifted, he/she will always be considered gifted. It allows access, later on, to gifted class which are a tad "higher" level than the honors classes.

 

HTH,

Sandra

[LisaKinVA]

Also, once a child's entered in the ps computer as gifted, he/she will always be considered gifted. It allows access, later on, to gifted class which are a tad "higher" level than the honors classes.

 

I have to wonder if this is new -- or only in certain places. It certainly wasn't true for me. I spent a full semester in "regular" 8th English Class versus "Advanced" 8th English) in the 8th grade, because the school I transferred to had no "proof" I belonged in the gifted class (fwiw, I was still in the same county I took the GT test 5.5 years earlier). It was awful...

[LisaKinVA]

We have thus far, tested our oldest at Johns Hopkins. It came out about what we expected level wise -- but it also means he can participate in JH activities, etc. We found the evaluation very useful, and my oldest keeps asking when we can go back:D He *really* got a kick out of it.

 

Testing didn't really change what we were doing, it was more of a confirmation of our plans (defense to grandparents, in some cases -- because we didn't "make" ds "do" all of the math problems... and I chose different curriculums because Saxon made him cry... that my child really *did* need to be homeschooled, because our local schools just couldn't handle my kid, etc.) Having that report that said repetition of mastered concepts was detrimental our my kid was *very* helpful.

 

We plan to test our dd at JHU at the end of the 2nd grade (another year and a half) -- she's a whole different child from our oldest... much deeper... have to watch *everything* we say to this child (she's not easy to deal with emotionally, academically, she's moving at a much faster clip than her older brother (who "amazed" his fair share). I expect we'll learn a lot from her evaluation as well. However, three years ago, I would have said she wasn't on the same level as her big brother -- we thought he was "scary smart". Today, I wonder if she's not leaps and bounds ahead of him (more than 10 points). At times, she terrifies me -- because of the way her mind works.

 

We haven't made any firm plans for the remainder as yet.

 

My children to take standardized tests twice a year... The CAT in-grade test (based upon age) for the state requirements, and a test which is 2 grades out of level in the fall (Iowa) (still not perfect, but better at reflecting what they've learned from their actual coursework).

 

Some people think I'm nuts for testing that much -- but I don't want the state to get all of the "real" information -- they can just be happy to see my kids test year after year in the 99th percentile and 9th stanine. I, however, want to see what they've *actually* learned in the course of the year, so i can better pin-point what dc are "missing." KWIM??

 

Good luck with your decision!