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Can we talk about Latin? Do you feel it's valuable or pointless?


ILiveInFlipFlops
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I'm fantasizing about dumping Latin. We're using LFC A this year, and while I think the method is working for us, I'm still not totally convinced about its value in our curriculum. It's getting harder for me to teach as we go along, not easier. It's also taking up time I really feel like we should be spending on something else, like a foreign language that would be more practical for us (and one that I feel I have a better ability to teach!).

 

I never learned Latin, yet I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of Latin roots and vocabulary anyway. I don't see how never having learned Latin has hampered me in life. I'm tired of beating my head against this particular wall when there are so many other walls I have to deal with right now.

 

So what is the case for Latin again? Or, if you don't believe Latin study has value, what is the case against it? If you didn't teach Latin, do you wish you had? If you did teach Latin, do you regret having spent time on it?

 

:bigear:

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I'm fantasizing about dumping Latin. We're using LFC A this year, and while I think the method is working for us, I'm still not totally convinced about its value in our curriculum. It's getting harder for me to teach as we go along, not easier. It's also taking up time I really feel like we should be spending on something else, like a foreign language that would be more practical for us (and one that I feel I have a better ability to teach!).

 

I never learned Latin, yet I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of Latin roots and vocabulary anyway. I don't see how never having learned Latin has hampered me in life. I'm tired of beating my head against this particular wall when there are so many other walls I have to deal with right now.

 

So what is the case for Latin again? Or, if you don't believe Latin study has value, what is the case against it? If you didn't teach Latin, do you wish you had? If you did teach Latin, do you regret having spent time on it?

 

:bigear:

 

I think Latin was exceedingly valuable, but then I have a highly academic, language-oriented kid. She's now proceeding through the college level Latin and is at 3rd year level, and has also taken Spanish, French, and right now, Japanese.

 

Youngest is not like this. I will require at least a year of Latin, but this one will probably do Spanish.

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I've finally decided (until I change my mind) that it is valuable. In a perfect world, I would love for my kids to study both Greek and Latin but I don't have time (or don't want to make the time) for both so we are concentrating on Latin. My two oldest did Latin forever and if you ask them, they do not regret a minute of it. In fact, my daughter is contemplating doing her persuasive speech in her basic speech class on the reasons to study Latin. They are constantly encouraging my youngers to enjoy Latin and to learn it to the best of their ability.

 

My second son - currently a sophomore - is the one that didn't study Latin. He had terrible spelling issues when he was younger and every time we started Latin the spelling issue would discourage me from continuing for very long. His vocabulary seems to be very behind compared to both peers and his older siblings. Now, I'm not blaming all of that on Latin but that's the main difference in their education. When he should have been really working on Latin, I was either pregnant or had a newborn in the house. I never got him going well on it - we did spend a few years really working on roots together but either he's destined to have a small vocabulary or it's just not as effective as studying the actual language.

 

I've determined that the study of Latin (and hopefully Greek) later WILL take place with my youngers. My 11 and 8 yods are toward the end of Latina Christiana and everyday they are pointing out connections in their other readings. Today's lesson in my 10yods grammar was subject and object pronouns and he was able to memorize them very quickly because of the Latin verb chants. It just encouraged me to keep plugging along - no matter how slowly.

 

Just my .02 :)

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Their teacher suggested Latin for helping with SAT. I can see her point but we are likely to be doing etymology (word roots) instead as my boys enjoy know the roots of the words regardless of whether it is Latin, Greek, French, others.

 

We are doing German and Chinese as our foreign languages and younger boy is keen on doing French in the future. We are also doing the Italian terms in music theory. So for my two kids that are not grammar oriented, I don't see the point in them learning Latin until they have an interest in it.

 

ETA: my kids also happen to prefer singing operas in different languages to learning chants.

Edited by Arcadia
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We're a very classical family. I have a Master's degree in Classics. DH has a PhD and is a Classics professor. Obviously we value "dead" languages. We're teaching our kids Greek and Latin so that they can read incredible literature that has shaped our culture. Reading a translation is nothing like reading the real thing.

If your goal is to give your children practical skills, Latin is still useful and worth your time. A child who learns Latin will know English grammar better than a child who uses the best English grammar curriculum on the market. Latin will teach your child to think creatively and logically. An inflected language like Latin will teach your child that there are a lot of ways of thinking and communicating. A child who has learned Latin will be able to pick up another language, especially a Romance language, very easily.

That said, I can understand your frustration. I don't like any of the available curricula for Greek or Latin for the early elementary years. I'm writing my own as I go along. Around third grade we plan to switch to Hansen & Quinn for Greek and Wheelock for Latin.

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I think Latin was exceedingly valuable, but then I have a highly academic, language-oriented kid.

 

In fact, my daughter is contemplating doing her persuasive speech in her basic speech class on the reasons to study Latin. They are constantly encouraging my youngers to enjoy Latin and to learn it to the best of their ability.

 

Can either of you speak to WHY you (and your DD) feel it's so valuable? What are the reasons I should keep plugging at it? I can see the vocabulary aspect, but I know that my vocabulary has never suffered for lack of Latin, and I have a pretty good grasp of word roots just because language is my natural area of strength. Beyond that, I'm sort of fuzzy!

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I think studying Latin is valuable. But I also know that we don't have time in our day to do every valuable thing. So we reassess Latin studies on a regular basis. It has to "earn" its place in our day just like everything else.

 

This year, I would have been ok with dropping it, but dd really wanted to continue, so we are. Right now, her goal is to be able to read and speak Latin fluently. I think it's a great goal and I support her in persuing it.

 

But goals change, and I am sure we will have the same conversation when planning for next year (or whenever we finish the book we are working on now).

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The point I remember from them talking to me about it were that not only the whole learning about language thing (vocabulary and grammar development), but it's the discipline of learning a complex system (I can't think of a better word than system). So kinda like logic puzzles to work your brain and make you better at logical thinking.

 

:iagree:

 

My daughter is a bit biased because she loves languages but she values the discipline it requires and the vocabulary she gained. She also studied French in high school and was amazed at how much easier the study of Latin had made the study of French. I'll ask her tonight what her main points are for her speech.

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I'm fantasizing about dumping Latin. We're using LFC A this year, and while I think the method is working for us, I'm still not totally convinced about its value in our curriculum. It's getting harder for me to teach as we go along, not easier. It's also taking up time I really feel like we should be spending on something else, like a foreign language that would be more practical for us (and one that I feel I have a better ability to teach!).

 

I never learned Latin, yet I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of Latin roots and vocabulary anyway. I don't see how never having learned Latin has hampered me in life. I'm tired of beating my head against this particular wall when there are so many other walls I have to deal with right now.

 

So what is the case for Latin again? Or, if you don't believe Latin study has value, what is the case against it? If you didn't teach Latin, do you wish you had? If you did teach Latin, do you regret having spent time on it?

 

:bigear:

 

I used to be in the Latin is unnecessary camp, but, believe it or not, my kids are the ones whose arguments persuaded me that I was completely wrong.

 

*Latin is very logical and orderly. It helps with ordered thinking and precise articulation (all those conjugations and declensions force you to pay attention to the role of every word selected......I have seen it cross over into better English sentence structure as well.)

 

*definitely helps w/English grammar (and my kids were already strong in grammar anyway.)

 

*it does help vocab (both English and foreign) but I would not use this an argument for studying Latin

 

***But most of all they love Latin and think it is amazing.

 

BUT.....fwiw, I bought and immediately sold LfC. The format/presentation was definitely not a fit. I don't think it really gives a sense for Latin grammar and seems very vocab heavy.

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BUT.....fwiw, I bought and immediately sold LfC. The format/presentation was definitely not a fit. I don't think it really gives a sense for Latin grammar and seems very vocab heavy.

 

OK, I'm considering that maybe this is the problem. What did you switch to?

 

One of the things that is driving me crazy is the stupid macrons. I cannot figure out their purpose. Are they an accent mark? How do you know when to use them and when not to? I've found errors and inconsistencies in LfC's use of macrons (and their spelling, and other things), and I have a strong suspicion that the kids chanting in the video are not that accurate in their pronunciation, all of which is making understanding the use of the macrons harder. It's making it very hard for me to teach the program, but DD10 really likes the format, so I'm not sure what to do about that. Someone once told me to just leave off the macrons for now and learn how to use them later when the whole thing makes more sense, but I may be too Type A for that :lol:

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I ignored the macrons. I believe they are an aid in pronunciation (syllables, vowel length). I didn't get too hung up on pronunciation either though. I know, I'm going to hell. :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol: See, I'm trying to hold onto this attitude--don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and all that. But I was raised by a man who will have "If it's worth doing, it's worth doing RIGHT!" imprinted on his headstone, so I'm struggling :lol: I mean, it's better to have mediocre Latin than no Latin at all, right?

 

Honestly, the two things keeping me in the game are the insta-vocabulary aspect and the ease with which we'll learn other Romance languages. I studied Spanish for 6 years in high school, plus my DH is Latino, and I studied some Italian in college and French on my own. If I can get Latin under my belt, teaching the girls any of those will be a breeze. I'm just...whining, I guess. I keep waiting for Latin to get a bit easier, and it just keeps getting more confusing *sigh*

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Latin was my son's choice of a foreign language in high school. We both loved learning it together! It helped him on his ACT, as well as with his science classes in college. He has no problems understanding word meanings, because of all the "root word studies" he did with Latin. I would highly recommend Latin for a student who will be majoring in the science or health field in college.

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BUT.....fwiw, I bought and immediately sold LfC. The format/presentation was definitely not a fit. I don't think it really gives a sense for Latin grammar and seems very vocab heavy.

 

I am also wondering what curriculum worked for your younger children. My kids (6 and 7 yrs old) has so far pick Minimus Latin if we start next school year.

The LfC samples and video of the kids chants turn them off.

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I think studying Latin (& Greek) roots is useful if you don't want to go the full Latin route. We will make the decision on a kid-by-kid basis. (I don't see the point in forcing the study of Latin for years if the kid is determined to drive construction equipment for a living. I might still make him play Rummy Roots. evilgrin0036.gif)

 

My oldest is continuing with Latin, but I dropped it for dd#2 this year. She did Prima Latina & almost all of Latina Christiana. However, we're spending this year concentrating on spelling & math. Ironically, she's the one who will pipe up with "That darn Latin; it is EVERYWHERE!" (Oldest's spelling list today, for example, was peppered with words that have their root in Latin -- and they were pointed out because of the "Latin /sh/" (ci, si, ti) in their endings.) At some point, I plan on going back to Latin with her.

 

It can be a big help to those who decide to go into a medical field. It can boost SAT verbal scores. It can be a good base for learning a modern language in high school. It can be a really good way to order your mind in a logical, structural manner (or make you go batty :willy_nilly:).

 

But I don't think it is for every family or every kid. To each their own!

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I am also wondering what curriculum worked for your younger children. My kids (6 and 7 yrs old) has so far pick Minimus Latin if we start next school year.

The LfC samples and video of the kids chants turn them off.

 

This post wasnt directed towards me, but I have been happy for the most part with Lively Latin for that age. I would say do it slowly for the youngers, maybe book one over two years (we're doing it over a year and a half with lots of review for retention. Then we will move to Book 2).

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Younger kids might enjoy I Speak Latin and/or Song School Latin. I was originally planning on using ISL, but got GSWL instead. DD definitely prefers Minimus, though (which I bought as a supplement), so much so that I'm considering paying for the darned expensive TM and using GSWL as reinforcement. Lively Latin is still in the running, too, if I manage to find some extra money lying around. :tongue_smilie:

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To answer the thread title, I took Latin for 3 years in high school and found it valuable for both learning grammar and vocabulary. I've been told I have a very logical mind, but I can't say definitively if that was a result of learning Latin, or if I enjoyed learning Latin because of it. Latin study has made learning other languages easier, including science vocabulary. I want DD to have similar advantages.

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We were struggling with Latin (Latina Christiana) and I was getting close to dumping it. Then I discovered Latin Prep. My son is older (5th grade), but he is now loving Latin. I am lucky though as my Dad has some basic Latin from his Catholic upbringing and helps a lot.

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I took Latin through the AP level, plus one random semester in college. It was far and away my favorite subject. I think long term, it was the one I got the most out of. Things like vocabulary for sure, but also attention to detail, writing skills, logical and orderly thinking, and focus (can't say I've totally retained those skills...). And learning another language, even if it's not a Romance language, is so much easier after Latin. One of the things I like about it, is that you get out what you put in. You cannot coast. There are no shortcuts. You cannot bluff your way through it. The only advantage you can gain is if you are quick to memorize. So for an accelerated kid, it's a perfect subject.

 

I don't like elementary programs for language in general. We tried Lively Latin in 3rd, and it was too all over the place for us. We tried Getting Started With Latin last year in 4th and it was too slow. Starting mid way through 4th, and into this year, we are using So You Really Want to Learn Latin. It is extremely straightforward, no fluff at all, with a heavy focus on grammar. The lessons and exercises are short and sweet, and it is easy to go at our own pace and not get overwhelmed.

 

I would like my kids to go farther than I did. I think I just got a good introduction. In my ideal world, we will finish the basic grammar/syntax before high school so we can spend high school reading original texts. I also want to do Greek. :D

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I don't think Latin is pointless, but it wasn't valuable enough for us to continue with the study of the whole language. The vocabulary--yes, but the endings etc.-- no.

 

We dropped the study of the whole language this semester and the flow of our days has been so. much. better. The extra time and brain power to pursue subjects more in-line with our goals was a gift.

 

For every path you follow there is a path not taken.

Edited by Hilltop Academy
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What Latin curriculum has worked well for your family?

 

My older kids have been using Latin Prep and have really enjoyed it the last few yrs. My 5th grade dd is using Artes Latinae and she really loves it and my 8th grader switched to it and has had to adjust to the different teaching style and had to back up b/c of vocabulary.

 

The 2 programs are completely different.

 

From my experience w/LP, I would really recommend using LP levels 1-3 in grades 5 to 7 or 6 to 8 and then switching to SYRWTLLatin 3 for 8th or 9th. What to do for the next step, I'm not sure. I have hired a private teacher b/c my 11th grader is behind that schedule and wants to take the AP Latin exam next yr, but I am not sure whether or not he will be ready or not. I didn't realize how behind SYRWTLLatin is compared to what is expected. Anyway, he is finishing up bk 3 and working on readers and she is planning on using Excelability http://www.bolchazy.com/prod.php?cat=latin&id=5122 w/him.

 

B/c of the above and the fact that my 8th grade dd is very serious about languages (studying 3 this yr), she decided to leave LP (she completed LP 1 and 2 and SYRWTLLatin 2) and move to Artes Latinae b/c she is planning on moving into Wheelock's.

 

FWIW, I wouldn't start Latin w/really young kids. They need to be able to have the ability to firmly grasp grammar. 3rd to 4th grade for really strong students, 5th for avg kids would be my general recommendation. (dd did do Prima Latina in 2nd, but really time spent vs. what was gotten out is minimal. What they take a long time to master young is learned quickly when they are a little older.) We also don't spend a lot of time on it daily when they are younger (maybe 15-20 mins/day).

 

Don't know if that is helpful or not. We love LP/SYRWTLLatin's style, but it isn't as thorough as it could be. I think it is perfect for late elementary/middle school and will give them an extremely strong foundation for high school Latin in prep for SAT subject test and AP exam.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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I am also wondering what curriculum worked for your younger children. My kids (6 and 7 yrs old) has so far pick Minimus Latin if we start next school year.

The LfC samples and video of the kids chants turn them off.

 

My young child loves Lively Latin, and is doing really well with it. It's colorful and has a lot of variation in the assignments - for example, instead of translating a Latin sentence into English you might be asked to draw a picture illustrating the sentence. There are audio files of the author pronouncing all the vocabulary words, which we find helpful.

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I know this is nigh-on heretical, but I would not be especially interested in doing Latin with my own child. I know all the arguments for doing so but have not found them to be particularly true in myself (I went to a classical prep school and studied Latin and Greek for six years). It's hard to say if I would be an even less organized person if I hadn't taken learned Latin (I suppose it's possible), but I do not really find that my Latin vocabulary carries over in a helpful way, or that it's easier for me to learn other Romance languages. It's possible that I just don't notice these things, I suppose. But I'm not really aware of them being true.

 

I would also be concerned about my own ability to teach Latin correctly, to be honest. I would at minimum have to study quite a bit to get back up to speed. And there are other subjects I consider more useful, I think.

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My young child loves Lively Latin, and is doing really well with it.

 

Is the online version volume one all I would need for my boys to start? My 6 turning 7 would enjoy the color and being able to draw instead of write. I would be learning ahead of my kids. They enjoy figuring out the meaning of the names of the elements of the periodic table.

 

Thanks.

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WendyK: My husband took Latin. His brother teaches Latin. I've heard the arguments for why it is important and useful, but again, I think there is more than one path to this. And as much as my husband and BIL believe in Latin, I am pretty sure they would agree with me on that.

 

The point I remember from them talking to me about it were that not only the whole learning about language thing (vocabulary and grammar development), but it's the discipline of learning a complex system (I can't think of a better word than system). So kinda like logic puzzles to work your brain and make you better at logical thinking.

 

 

My husband's English skills are nearly as good as his German (which is his native language). He (and I) attribute that in part to him also studying Latin.

 

 

Yes, this. I can't explain it well.

 

My daughter is a bit biased because she loves languages but she values the discipline it requires and the vocabulary she gained. She also studied French in high school and was amazed at how much easier the study of Latin had made the study of French. I'll ask her tonight what her main points are for her speech.

 

And this too. The other languages came easier because she studied Latin. She is far and above my reasoning powers at her age.

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Is the online version volume one all I would need for my boys to start? My 6 turning 7 would enjoy the color and being able to draw instead of write. I would be learning ahead of my kids. They enjoy figuring out the meaning of the names of the elements of the periodic table.

 

Thanks.

 

yes, we just got the online version and dove in. vol. 1 should take a 6/7 year old quite a bit of time.

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My husband and I have often debated this. We really like classical ed philosophy, but we haven't totally bought into the Latin idea. Perhaps that is because we are missionaries, and live in a country with several modern languages that we already want our children to study (3 + English). There's just not enough time for it all. For now we've decided that we won't do a formal study of Latin. We will study logic, as well as Latin and Greek roots. That's what I studied in high school, and feel that that is invaluable. I feel that learning any modern language helps your logic, though probably that is more true with Latin?

 

I like the Bluedorn's thought--if you're only going to study one dead language, study Greek (this is for Christians), as that is the language of the Bible. As far as reading the classics in the original language, I don't see a need for my children to be that conversant in Latin; I also feel that I'd rather have my children read a "cleaned-up" version of some of those works in English, rather than the original. If we were living in America, I might feel differently though, and have my children learn Latin. But just learning Latin and Greek roots would be helpful for learning modern Romance languages--which are all throughout the world: Spanish in Central and South America; Portuguese and French in Africa.

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I did Latin with my oldest beginning in 3rd grade. We went through Latina Christiana I, II, and about a quarter of the way through the Henle I book. At that point I was not staying on top of it and she had way too many questions that I could not answer, so I had her take high school Latin via our state's virtual school. She completed Latin I and II. I would have loved for her to continue with III, but she begged for Spanish instead. Of course after all that Latin, Spanish was a piece of cake, and now she is planning on taking several languages in college and possibly majoring in Linguistics.

 

Do I think her study of Latin contributed to that? No, but languages are an area where she is strong anyway, so it certainly didn't hurt. I am hoping that some day she will thank me for having her learn Latin . . .

 

In the meantime, my younger ones did Prima Latina last year and Latina Christiana I this year at our co-op. My middle one is picking it up especially well, and I think that in the long run he will be the one to benefit from it the most. I never would have guessed this when he was younger, and I am very glad that we gave it a try beginning when he was in 5th grade. I plan on continuing with the First Form series with both of my boys.

 

So in short, I do think it is valuable and I have enjoyed learning Latin along with my children. The jury is still out on how far it takes them in life.

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I think Latin is valuable. Not only from a vocabulary point of view, but, as was stated before, it's developing the ability to analyze and study a language. I believe it is strengthening my kids' logic and reasoning skills. I'm finally catching on to Latin myself(I watch the DVDs with the kids or they wouldn't) and we're in Latina Christian I doing the simplest translations and I'm like, "I get it! Woohoo! THis makes sense to me!" It's all very exciting! My oldest son, who's doing LC (my other son is in PL) claims he hates Latin, but he's more cooperative with Latin than most other subjects and he is catching on very quickly. He's also got a very logical brain!

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I dont see how Latin is important. In high school you had to take 1 yr foreign language as a graduation requirement. Your choices were: Spanish, Latin, German, and French. MOST chose Spanish. I chose German. I took 3yrs. There really wasnt a point to me taking it or the 3yrs that i did. I dont plan to go to Germany.

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What is this online version? All I've ever seen are the print version and free online games.

 

Sorry, I assumed that she meant the PDF download (as opposed to the one where they send you something in the mail) - that's what I meant.

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What is this online version? All I've ever seen are the print version and free online games.

 

Sorry, I assumed that she meant the PDF download (as opposed to the one where they send you something in the mail) - that's what I meant.

 

That is what I meant. Buying the PDF download so that I don't need to wait for the mailman :001_smile: And I can print a set each for my boys.

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I think it depends on the child and your educational philosophy. I started my DD8 in Prima Latina this year and it is really good for her. It is like exercise for her mind and she is learning so much grammar. She didn't like doing grammar ala FLL but she likes it when it is a piece of the puzzle that is Latin. I do anticipate it being easier for her to learn other languages with this as a base. And I think it is good for making connections (as she sees derivatives in many places) which is a skill to build. She loves it and I can see how good it is for her.

 

DD6 I will start in Prima Latina next year. I don't know how she will do. She's very different from her sister. If she hates it, I may wait and try again. I think it could be good for her too. She tend to be scattered and Latin is training in orderly thinking.

 

I feel that in general, it is beneficial but that's certainly not an absolute.

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I see the value but after a spring sabbatical in Costa Rica and a summer mission trip to the Dominican Republic, I felt foolish to put Latin ahead of Spanish.

I have been in countless situations where I wished I knew Spanish and decided to switch to it this year. I feel that it is nearly imperative to know Spanish in this country. I also feel that it would be very useful for future trips. We hope to go to more Spanish speaking countries in the future.

 

While I realize we could do both, I need to be realistic in how many subjects we can do. Latin may be explored when they are older

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I see the value but after a spring sabbatical in Costa Rica and a summer mission trip to the Dominican Republic, I felt foolish to put Latin ahead of Spanish.

I have been in countless situations where I wished I knew Spanish and decided to switch to it this year. I feel that it is nearly imperative to know Spanish in this country. I also feel that it would be very useful for future trips. We hope to go to more Spanish speaking countries in the future.

 

While I realize we could do both, I need to be realistic in how many subjects we can do. Latin may be explored when they are older

 

:iagree: We hear Spanish spoken frequently, so it makes sense to focus on it. There are other languages we hear frequently as well, so we would include one of those before adding Latin again.

 

I think studying any foreign language makes the next one easier. Also, many subjects work the brain and teach logical thinking.

 

Latin is certainly one way, but it's not the only way.

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I plan on starting Latin with my dd next year. She will be in 5th grade then. The reason I'm teaching it is because she asked me to. Now, I took 5 years of Spanish -- never Latin. I've read that once you learn Latin, other languages will be a breeze to learn because many are derived from Latin. In addition it helps tremendously on vocabulary and the SATs, ACTs, and so on.

 

Maybe you just need to change your Latin program?

 

I researched a bunch of different products so I could basically learn with my daughter without the burden falling too much on me. I've decided to go with Memoria Press and begin with Latina Christiana I. Their site suggests First Form Latin at her grade level, but since neither of us has experience with Latin, I want to start with the very basics and take it slowly. Both this program and First Form Latin have teaching DVDs to go along with the lessons. I have read many reviews which state that the parents sit with their kids and learn right the language with them. That's the program I need! Maybe something like this would work better for you?

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I originally thought it was pointless and wasn't going to do it. My friend, who is a neurologist, even encouraged me not to spend time on it because she didn't feel like the 3 years of Latin she took in high school benefited her in any way - not even in medical school. She wished she'd taken Spanish instead, since she practices in California and mostly works with the elderly.

 

All that said, while reading SOTW, DS1 heard some Latin and wanted to learn it. I got Getting Started With Latin, and he LOVES it. We're somewhere around lesson 40 now, and he still really enjoys it, as do I (I've never learned Latin, but I have learned Spanish and German). I don't know how far we'll go with it, as my own abilities may get in the way. :tongue_smilie:But for now, we'll finish this book, then figure out where to go next. I have several possibilities written down. We enjoy the grammar focus and the translation. I am glad we had done through 3rd grade grammar before starting, as I didn't have to explain what a direct object or predicate nominative were. Things like that have been reinforced via the Latin, but he already knew what they were.

 

I try not to do Latin and English grammar in the same day, as that just becomes grammar overkill for us. We're doing Latin 3 days a week and English grammar 2 days (he picks up grammar easily and doesn't need a lot of practice).

 

We've made some neat connections learning Latin vocabulary, so I can see where it will be helpful in English vocab, though my son is a reader, so I'm not too concerned about his vocab.

 

I definitely see where the logical thinking comes in, and I think that will be useful, though again, we do get logical thinking elsewhere - we use Singapore ahead of grade level, have logic workbooks for fun, etc.

 

Basically, we do Latin for fun. I plan to get Getting Started with Spanish and try Spanish again (which my son also wants to learn, and I think Spanish is very useful). We had tried Real Homeschool Spanish, but it just never got done. Not sure why. I like the layout of the Getting Started books, and I think it might be a better fit for us.

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You know, I think I'm finally "getting it" about Latin - about the logical, organized thinking/problem solving part. I think I didn't get it before, because with Lively Latin you only learn 2 declensions and 3 of the cases the whole year, and the translations are so simple that it doesn't take a lot of logic/critical thinking, just remembering the noun endings. So while I could see the vocabulary/language benefits, I wasn't really seeing what everyone was saying about the mental training that Latin translations provide.

 

But now that we are working on Latin Prep, whew! In chapter 3, we have learned all 6 cases and the first 2 declensions, and some of these translations are tough! Especially the story about Diomedes feeding his guests to the horses - there you can't even rely on semantics for help!! :tongue_smilie: You really, really have to go through each noun one by one in an organized way and look at the endings and the logic of the sentence (since some of the endings of different cases are the same). I am really seeing how this requires discipline, orderly thinking, logic, etc. And it is *not* easy.

 

This is exactly what dd needs right now. She gets really frustrated with herself when things aren't a breeze for her. I make sure she gets a healthy dose of this kind of frustration in math class, but so far I feel like I haven't really been challenging her in the other areas - they are all pretty easy for her. But Latin is getting *hard* and I think this is a really good thing. We are definitely going to stick with it for the time being.

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I make sure she gets a healthy dose of this kind of frustration in math class, but so far I feel like I haven't really been challenging her in the other areas - they are all pretty easy for her. But Latin is getting *hard* and I think this is a really good thing. We are definitely going to stick with it for the time being.

 

 

This is big for me as well.

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Don't know if that is helpful or not. We love LP/SYRWTLLatin's style, but it isn't as thorough as it could be. I think it is perfect for late elementary/middle school and will give them an extremely strong foundation for high school Latin in prep for SAT subject test and AP exam.

 

 

This is really interesting. I didn't realize SYRWTLL is not thorough. Is there a specific aspect that isn't enough, such as vocab, grammar, or amount of translation work, or is it an overall thing? I will be sticking with it for at least the next two years, because it's a good fit or my student, but would like to know the ramifications. My tentative plan was to have her go through Wheelocks after SYRWTLL.

 

Thanks!

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This is really interesting. I didn't realize SYRWTLL is not thorough. Is there a specific aspect that isn't enough, such as vocab, grammar, or amount of translation work, or is it an overall thing? I will be sticking with it for at least the next two years, because it's a good fit or my student, but would like to know the ramifications. My tentative plan was to have her go through Wheelocks after SYRWTLL.

 

Thanks!

 

I wish I had been more aware. My kids are way ahead of me in Latin, so I had no objective way of evaluating their progress other than the NLE. My ds took level 2 last yr and dd level 1. Both medaled, but ds did not earn a gold.

 

Knowing that ds really wants to take the AP Latin exam next yr, I have a friend tutoring him whose dd took Latin through APs and is now a classics major. She is having to double time him this yr to get him up to speed so they can start working on classical translations. I know that they are dealing w/a vocabulary gap and ds has forgotten some earlier concepts, but beyond that, sorry, I am not able to definitively state the tutor's assessment......but mainly my sense is that getting through all of the LP and SYRWTLLatin books will put you at having completely a solid Latin 1 and probably about 1/2 of Latin 2. I get the feeling that ds is about 1/2 a semester behind and could use a broader vocabulary in order to be solidly on pace w/appropriate translations....so not quite "really" at a solid Latin 3 level (though we thought that he was since he had completed all LP levels and SYRWTLLatin 2 and was working through 3.....I think 2 and 3 are probably more typical of an actual Latin 2 equivalent??? :confused: I really don't know for sure though. This is not a subject I am comfortable stating anything so definitively. I just know that he is behind according to our tutor and I know that she does know what she is talking about.)

 

Since our 8th grader is seriously considering something in the linguistics field, her commitment to succeeding is huge. So, she switched to Artes Latinae and will move on to Wheelock and will be more than ready for the AP exam well before 12th.

 

I would have used LP w/my 5th grader, but she wanted to try Artes Latinae and she loves it. So, all is good.

 

My HUGE caveat to all of the above is that every single Latin program we tried before LP was a FAIL. I can't tell you how many times I have dropped Latin over the past 19 yrs!! Even if ds is somewhat behind where he should be, w/o the fact that they fell in love w/Latin via LP, they might not be studying it at all. The 2 of them really, really have enjoyed learning Latin w/LP and as I wrote in my OP, they are the ones that have completely changed my view on Latin. They believe that it should be core for everyone. ;)

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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