Need advice on what to tell DD (sad)

[2squared]

But is IS harmful to that baby to be getting turned against her mother, even if she doesn't totally understand it yet. What CPS did with the report would depend on what else they know, community standards, etc.

 

In my community, that behavior would not go further than the report. My dh is the county attorney who deals with this stuff, and this type of behavior just isn't actionable. As he said, you are allowed to be a crappy parent and inadvisable actions are not going to hurt your parental status.

 

Regardless, the OP's attorney knows what is and isn't actionable. I think the idea of sitting down with CHiPs (CPS in other states) and getting reportable guidelines is a great idea.

 

:grouphug:

[Catwoman]

We discussed all kinds of things - time management for classes, studying & work, her loneliness on campus due to being a commuter student, and, of course, the baby.

 

She wants to do whatever it takes to make sure the baby is well-cared for and loved. She also wants to let her know that her mommy is thinking of her whenever she is away and that equates to having her surrounded by 'her' things, things that are familiar. DD wants to continue sending the same things she would use at home. DD also does not want to act like them. She says she wants to set a good example for the baby; she wants to be the person she hopes the baby grows up to be. If that means letting some things go, then she will. But she wants to learn about the law and educate herself on what they can and cannot legally do.

 

 

For now, her plan is to stand tall, smile and be as pleasant as she can. She will continue to document everything. She is praying they have a change of heart. There are some other issues going on in their family that might alter how they treat DD and the baby. We are going to pray that these issues work out in DD's favor.

 

Hearing her heartfelt wishes for her DD makes me proud. She is a much better person than I could hope to be.

 

 

I have to be honest with you.

 

Your dd sounds like a lovely young woman and a great mom, but being so sweet and cooperative and not making waves with the other grandparents is not making her a better person. It's making her a doormat that they will continue to take advantage of.

 

If she can't or won't stand up for herself, I have to wonder why you're not doing it for her. Why don't you find her a real barracuda of an attorney? Why don't you go with her to the porch when she does the drop-off/pick-up thing with the baby?

 

I have a feeling I'm missing a big part of this story, because I would have gone Mama Bear a long time ago, and I'm trying to figure out why you haven't gotten tough with these people (hiring a new attorney if nothing else) if your dd wasn't up to it.

 

I know you're proud of your dd for being a kind and loving person, but she also needs to learn how to stand up for herself and for her child, and she doesn't appear to be doing that. She's being nice. She needs to be assertive -- and she can document every little thing forever, but without a really good attorney to tell her exactly what to do and how to do it, she's just spinning her wheels.

 

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but you're complaining about the horrible grandparents and the loser bio dad, yet you're proud of your dd for smiling and being pleasant. I think your dd needs to fight for her rights and for those of her baby, and to do that, she can't always be "letting things go."

 

I truly hope I didn't offend you, but if you, your dh, and your dd are upset about the issues with the dad and the other grandparents, you need to be a lot more pro-active.

[Impish]

I have to be honest with you.

 

Your dd sounds like a lovely young woman and a great mom, but being so sweet and cooperative and not making waves with the other grandparents is not making her a better person. It's making her a doormat that they will continue to take advantage of.

 

If she can't or won't stand up for herself, I have to wonder why you're not doing it for her. Why don't you find her a real barracuda of an attorney? Why don't you go with her to the porch when she does the drop-off/pick-up thing with the baby?

 

I have a feeling I'm missing a big part of this story, because I would have gone Mama Bear a long time ago, and I'm trying to figure out why you haven't gotten tough with these people (hiring a new attorney if nothing else) if your dd wasn't up to it.

 

I know you're proud of your dd for being a kind and loving person, but she also needs to learn how to stand up for herself and for her child, and she doesn't appear to be doing that. She's being nice. She needs to be assertive -- and she can document every little thing forever, but without a really good attorney to tell her exactly what to do and how to do it, she's just spinning her wheels.

 

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but you're complaining about the horrible grandparents and the loser bio dad, yet you're proud of your dd for smiling and being pleasant. I think your dd needs to fight for her rights and for those of her baby, and to do that, she can't always be "letting things go."

 

I truly hope I didn't offend you, but if you, your dh, and your dd are upset about the issues with the dad and the other grandparents, you need to be a lot more pro-active.

:iagree:

[indigomama]

I have to be honest with you.

 

Your dd sounds like a lovely young woman and a great mom, but being so sweet and cooperative and not making waves with the other grandparents is not making her a better person. It's making her a doormat that they will continue to take advantage of.

 

If she can't or won't stand up for herself, I have to wonder why you're not doing it for her. Why don't you find her a real barracuda of an attorney? Why don't you go with her to the porch when she does the drop-off/pick-up thing with the baby?

 

I have a feeling I'm missing a big part of this story, because I would have gone Mama Bear a long time ago, and I'm trying to figure out why you haven't gotten tough with these people (hiring a new attorney if nothing else) if your dd wasn't up to it.

 

I know you're proud of your dd for being a kind and loving person, but she also needs to learn how to stand up for herself and for her child, and she doesn't appear to be doing that. She's being nice. She needs to be assertive -- and she can document every little thing forever, but without a really good attorney to tell her exactly what to do and how to do it, she's just spinning her wheels.

 

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but you're complaining about the horrible grandparents and the loser bio dad, yet you're proud of your dd for smiling and being pleasant. I think your dd needs to fight for her rights and for those of her baby, and to do that, she can't always be "letting things go."

 

I truly hope I didn't offend you, but if you, your dh, and your dd are upset about the issues with the dad and the other grandparents, you need to be a lot more pro-active.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Lolly]

I have to be honest with you.

 

Your dd sounds like a lovely young woman and a great mom, but being so sweet and cooperative and not making waves with the other grandparents is not making her a better person. It's making her a doormat that they will continue to take advantage of.

 

If she can't or won't stand up for herself, I have to wonder why you're not doing it for her. Why don't you find her a real barracuda of an attorney? Why don't you go with her to the porch when she does the drop-off/pick-up thing with the baby?

 

I have a feeling I'm missing a big part of this story, because I would have gone Mama Bear a long time ago, and I'm trying to figure out why you haven't gotten tough with these people (hiring a new attorney if nothing else) if your dd wasn't up to it.

 

I know you're proud of your dd for being a kind and loving person, but she also needs to learn how to stand up for herself and for her child, and she doesn't appear to be doing that. She's being nice. She needs to be assertive -- and she can document every little thing forever, but without a really good attorney to tell her exactly what to do and how to do it, she's just spinning her wheels.

 

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but you're complaining about the horrible grandparents and the loser bio dad, yet you're proud of your dd for smiling and being pleasant. I think your dd needs to fight for her rights and for those of her baby, and to do that, she can't always be "letting things go."

 

I truly hope I didn't offend you, but if you, your dh, and your dd are upset about the issues with the dad and the other grandparents, you need to be a lot more pro-active.

 

I am not the op of course. I can easily see where she is coming from. Her daughter is an adult. She is the mother of the child. As the grandparent and mother, Dragon's main role is and should be to be supportive of her daughter. She can certainly put forth ideas, but she really cannot do anything herself. AND, when her dd says "no thank you, this is how I am handling it". Her responsibility is to back her dd up on that choice. When and if her dd gets to the point that she wants to fight back, I'll bet they get more fight than they could ever expect. When your kids are little, you stand up for them. You fight back for them sometimes. Once they are grown, you give them support in their choices whenever possible. Becoming a nagging shrew yourself is not likely to do any good for anyone.

[MariannNOVA]

I have to be honest with you.

 

Your dd sounds like a lovely young woman and a great mom, but being so sweet and cooperative and not making waves with the other grandparents is not making her a better person. It's making her a doormat that they will continue to take advantage of.

 

If she can't or won't stand up for herself, I have to wonder why you're not doing it for her. Why don't you find her a real barracuda of an attorney? Why don't you go with her to the porch when she does the drop-off/pick-up thing with the baby?

 

I have a feeling I'm missing a big part of this story, because I would have gone Mama Bear a long time ago, and I'm trying to figure out why you haven't gotten tough with these people (hiring a new attorney if nothing else) if your dd wasn't up to it.

 

I know you're proud of your dd for being a kind and loving person, but she also needs to learn how to stand up for herself and for her child, and she doesn't appear to be doing that. She's being nice. She needs to be assertive -- and she can document every little thing forever, but without a really good attorney to tell her exactly what to do and how to do it, she's just spinning her wheels.

 

I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but you're complaining about the horrible grandparents and the loser bio dad, yet you're proud of your dd for smiling and being pleasant. I think your dd needs to fight for her rights and for those of her baby, and to do that, she can't always be "letting things go."

 

I truly hope I didn't offend you, but if you, your dh, and your dd are upset about the issues with the dad and the other grandparents, you need to be a lot more pro-active.

 

Totally agree. Right now it is the grand parents......what about when one has to stand up to situations in pre school or elementary....or further down the road if the grand parents do something that will require swift and reasonable action.

 

I have....errrr.....an issue with people who think they can continue doing the same thing over and over again and are then surprised when the result is the same as it had always been.

 

I think it is great, da, that you are there for your dd and supportive. However, while law school and the rest are fine plans, that doesn't change this situation, and I don't see how your dd's plan that you articulated here addresses any of the issues in your original post. I am not trying to be harsh...just realistic.

[Denise in IN]

We discussed all kinds of things - time management for classes, studying & work, her loneliness on campus due to being a commuter student, and, of course, the baby.

 

She wants to do whatever it takes to make sure the baby is well-cared for and loved. She also wants to let her know that her mommy is thinking of her whenever she is away and that equates to having her surrounded by 'her' things, things that are familiar. DD wants to continue sending the same things she would use at home. DD also does not want to act like them. She says she wants to set a good example for the baby; she wants to be the person she hopes the baby grows up to be. If that means letting some things go, then she will. But she wants to learn about the law and educate herself on what they can and cannot legally do.

 

 

For now, her plan is to stand tall, smile and be as pleasant as she can. She will continue to document everything. She is praying they have a change of heart. There are some other issues going on in their family that might alter how they treat DD and the baby. We are going to pray that these issues work out in DD's favor.

 

Hearing her heartfelt wishes for her DD makes me proud. She is a much better person than I could hope to be.

 

Your daughter sounds like a wise young mother who really has her child's best interest at heart. Those of us who are older have cynicism and practicality that comes with life experience and causes us to jump to action, though that's not always the best thing! Your daughter will find her way through this, and you are doing a great job of supporting and helping her!

[Granny_Weatherwax]

 

I truly hope I didn't offend you, but if you, your dh, and your dd are upset about the issues with the dad and the other grandparents, you need to be a lot more pro-active.

 

Not offended at all...but what I would like to know is what you think I/we should do? What exactly do you mean by pro-active? We (DH & I) have no legal right to pursue anything in court.

 

The few times I have stepped in to intervene or ask for clarification about something, they have hauled DD back into court (under the son's name).

 

--

 

MarianNova- she isn't thinking about Law School. She is looking into local, state and Federal law regarding custody rights so she knows what is of importance and what is a waste of time. Things that can help her now or in the immediate future.

[Impish]

Not offended at all...but what I would like to know is what you think I/we should do? What exactly do you mean by pro-active? We (DH & I) have no legal right to pursue anything in court.

 

The few times I have stepped in to intervene or ask for clarification about something, they have hauled DD back into court (under the son's name).

 

--

 

MarianNova- she isn't thinking about Law School. She is looking into local, state and Federal law regarding custody rights so she knows what is of importance and what is a waste of time. Things that can help her now or in the immediate future.

Interesting...they haul into court when you speak, but you guys keep quiet when they do?

 

I'd seriously be lawyer shopping. Get the 'anyone else' stricken from the court order, first of all. Make specific requests that the father is actually physically present and taking care of his child during the visitation, since HE is the one that has visitation rights, not the gparents. If he's unavailable, the visit is cancelled. Get it in writing he's to supply everything while she's there. It IS important. It's an aspect of him supporting and providing for his child.

 

You do not have to accomodate the gparents. I would find an atty that is willing to go to bat on this, as well as pursue every last penny he's to be paying, and keep a record of his refusals, as well as what he does cough up. Legal action can be taken on that issue as well.

 

If he's actually held responsible, he'll either rise to it, or run from it. Either way, it'll solve the issues.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I

 

If she can't or won't stand up for herself, I have to wonder why you're not doing it for her. Why don't you find her a real barracuda of an attorney? Why don't you go with her to the porch when she does the drop-off/pick-up thing with the baby?

 

Please don't quote this response --

 

I do go with her when I can. But I have been told that I may not get out of the car or I will be turned in for trespassing and hauled into jail. DH is allowed out of the car and does go with DD but they never say or do anything when he is around.

 

Where does one find a barracuda of an attorney? We live in a small town with two family law attorneys. We would have to travel out of town to find someone else and that someone would not know local judges or the 'good ole boy' mentality of the local court system. How does one pay for a barracuda attorney? I bet they are not inexpensive. State attorneys are not going to be barracudas, probably more guppy-ish. We opted to pay for DD's attorney and we found the best one we could afford.

 

Without being snarky, because that is not at all how I mean to sound, how much are DH and I expected to contribute to attorney's fees? Do we deplete our savings? Do we mortgage our home? Do we cash in insurance policies?

 

This is a serious question. I have never known anyone who has gone through this type of situation so I don't know what is expected.:confused:

 

I realize finances are personal and what each family can do will vary depending on circumstances.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

 

You do not have to accomodate the gparents. I would find an atty that is willing to go to bat on this, as well as pursue every last penny he's to be paying, and keep a record of his refusals, as well as what he does cough up. Legal action can be taken on that issue as well.

 

If he's actually held responsible, he'll either rise to it, or run from it. Either way, it'll solve the issues.

 

I have never said he doesn't pay support. The only info I remember saying bout it is that he pays 'peanuts'. His child support is paid through the state system through automatic withdrawals from his paycheck.

I don't know where the idea came from that he doesn't pay child support.

[LibraryLover]

Why can dh get out of the car, but you cannot?

 

That sounds crazy.

 

I would try to make sure your dh is available for each switch. I am sorry--and confused--as to why your dd is so powerless!

 

I admit I have not been in your situation, nor has my dh, but I do think we'd be arseholes with these people treating a baby in such a horrible way. My dh is pretty much a pussycat, but I can see his inner Voldermort presenting in this situation. I can't wrap my head around people being allowed to treat a child or grandchild this way.

 

Is there more her we aren't understanding!? My patience would be gone, and I would consider letting the other family call so the court would serve us.

Edited October 19, 2012 by LibraryLover

[forty-two]

:grouphug: Those gps are majorly bullying your dd and the rest of you. I don't know what to do, either - there are so many differing approaches to dealing with bullies, each with potential downsides. But I don't know that just taking it and walking on eggshells, letting them push your dd around, hoping they magically become better people on their own is a great choice, either.

 

One thing that did occur to me is that the book "Boundaries" might be a big help for your dd - give her tools for being the bigger person while still standing up for herself. She can be a good person and rise above them and their bullying without having to be a doormat.

 

My heart aches for you and your dd :grouphug:.

[Plateau Mama]

You've been told by who that you can't get out of the car? The grandparents? Judges? Is there a restraining order against you for some reason?

 

Just because they say you can't, doesn't mean you can't. If you are there and don't feel comfortable going to the door, get out of the car and stand on the sidewalk. That is public property and you aren't trespassing. Even if you go to the door, I can't see how you can be arrested for tresspassing and hauled off to jail. Just sounds like them being bullies to me. You can't stop them from calling the police true, but if they refuse to hand over the baby because you are "tresspassing" then you can accuse them of kidnapping.

 

My Uncle is a police officer of 20+ years. If he had to respond to a call of tresspassing because grandma was standing nicely on the porch with her daughter during the exchange he'd tell the other grandparents where to shove it. (Seriously, he is a highly decorated officer, but his one downfall is he tells it like he sees it.)

 

Honestly, I wouldn't do exchanges at the house, ever. Make them meet you in a public place. Every time.

[Impish]

I have never said he doesn't pay support. The only info I remember saying bout it is that he pays 'peanuts'. His child support is paid through the state system through automatic withdrawals from his paycheck.

I don't know where the idea came from that he doesn't pay child support.

I was thinking insurance, medical care, etc...Is he not required to contribute towards anything at all, other than cs? I thought stuff like insurance, etc was seperate, over and above cs. I'm not in the US, so I may be wrong in thinking it's a part of all family court provisions.

 

 

You've been told by who that you can't get out of the car? The grandparents? Judges? Is there a restraining order against you for some reason?

 

Just because they say you can't, doesn't mean you can't. If you are there and don't feel comfortable going to the door, get out of the car and stand on the sidewalk. That is public property and you aren't trespassing. Even if you go to the door, I can't see how you can be arrested for tresspassing and hauled off to jail. Just sounds like them being bullies to me. You can't stop them from calling the police true, but if they refuse to hand over the baby because you are "tresspassing" then you can accuse them of kidnapping.

 

My Uncle is a police officer of 20+ years. If he had to respond to a call of tresspassing because grandma was standing nicely on the porch with her daughter during the exchange he'd tell the other grandparents where to shove it. (Seriously, he is a highly decorated officer, but his one downfall is he tells it like he sees it.)

 

Honestly, I wouldn't do exchanges at the house, ever. Make them meet you in a public place. Every time.

Totally agree w/the last bit, esp. You do NOT have to be doing this exchange anywhere near their property. Take that power play out of action, period.

 

If they refuse, you can take that to court, saying that your dd finds it a hostile environment, and would prefer to have the exchange in a neutral, public area (police station parking lots are great places, seriously)...it'll stop them screwing around and threatening.

 

If you're not allowed on their property, I'd extend them the same courtesy. There's 0 reason for them to ever step foot on *yours*. Public, neutral territory.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

You've been told by who that you can't get out of the car? The grandparents? Judges? Is there a restraining order against you for some reason?

The baby's father. There is no restraining order. Every time I go up to the house or get involved, DD pays for it, usually in some crazy, immature manner.

Just because they say you can't, doesn't mean you can't. If you are there and don't feel comfortable going to the door, get out of the car and stand on the sidewalk. There is no sidewalk. They live in the country and if I were to remain on public property I would be on the opposite side of the house. That is public property and you aren't trespassing. Even if you go to the door, I can't see how you can be arrested for trespassing and hauled off to jail. Just sounds like them being bullies to me. You can't stop them from calling the police true, but if they refuse to hand over the baby because you are "trespassing" then you can accuse them of kidnapping.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't do exchanges at the house, ever. Make them meet you in a public place. Every time.

 

Why can dh get out of the car, but you cannot?

Because I cause trouble, ask questions, demand answers. DD's attorney has warned us about hearsay and acting upon things as a third party, DH and I have to witness the behavior. They never cause problems when DH is around.

That sounds crazy.

 

I would try to make sure your dh is available for each switch. I am sorry--and confused--as to why your dd is so powerless! DH cannot be there due to his work schedule.

 

Is there more her we aren't understanding!? Probably, but I don't want to give too many personal details. I over share as it is. My patience would be gone, and I would consider letting the other family call so the court would serve us.

 

I was thinking insurance, medical care, etc...Is he not required to contribute towards anything at all, other than cs? I thought stuff like insurance, etc was seperate, over and above cs. I'm not in the US, so I may be wrong in thinking it's a part of all family court provisions.

Oh, okay. Yes, he is supposed to help pay medical bills and provide insurance. The insurance policy he selected has such an outrageously high deductible that there is no way it will ever be met barring a catastrophe. It also doesn't cover much of anything, including well-child or vaccinations. As far as we know, this plan was selected to meet the minimum requirements set forth by law and that is all. DH and I opted to put a rider on our insurance policy so the baby would have the same coverage as we do. Our insurance was supposed to be secondary to his. His insurance co has refused to pay any medical costs up to this point so our ins. has picked up the bill and we have been making the co-pays.

Totally agree w/the last bit, esp. You do NOT have to be doing this exchange anywhere near their property. Take that power play out of action, period.

 

If they refuse, you can take that to court, saying that your dd finds it a hostile environment, and would prefer to have the exchange in a neutral, public area (police station parking lots are great places, seriously)...it'll stop them screwing around and threatening.

 

If you're not allowed on their property, I'd extend them the same courtesy. There's 0 reason for them to ever step foot on *yours*. Public, neutral territory.

 

hth

[Parrothead]

DA - I won't quote your above since you asked.

 

Personally if it were me in your position, I'd drain everything. I'd go to the big city I'd get the dirt-bag lawyer who advertises at the bus stop and the cover of the phone book. I'd make the other people sorry to have messed with dd.

 

But that is me and I'm not a nice person.

[Anne in CA]

I have had experience with this kind of custody case. The place where you need to spend money, where most people cheap out, is the home study. Do not get a cheap one done by a social worker. It will not be good enough to protect you. When you get a home study, spend the $5,000 to $10,000 up front to get one done by a kick-a## psychologist. The money saved over the next 18 years of the baby's life will be worth it. We did the cheap social worker option and if we had done the psychologist it certainly would have been uncovered that my step dd's mother has BPD and we would have been spared so much unsupervised visitation.

 

I suspect that most of the things that the grandparents are doing will appear to be ignorant or lazy to a social worker, a psychologist will pick up on the manipulation factor, where as a social worker will ignore that aspect.

[Jennifer3141]

DA - I won't quote your above since you asked.

 

Personally if it were me in your position, I'd drain everything. I'd go to the big city I'd get the dirt-bag lawyer who advertises at the bus stop and the cover of the phone book. I'd make the other people sorry to have messed with dd.

 

But that is me and I'm not a nice person.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

And here's the thing... the father doesn't want to be involved and this is fortunately a state without specific grandparents' rights.

 

So I think the OP would probably pay $10,000-20,000 out of pocket for a kick butt big city lawyer but likely, the other side will not.

 

An investment now could mean not having to spend the rest of this girl's life dealing with lowlifes. And the grandchild would be safe. Cash out whatever you need to make this happen.

[MariannNOVA]

DA - I won't quote your above since you asked.

 

Personally if it were me in your position, I'd drain everything. I'd go to the big city I'd get the dirt-bag lawyer who advertises at the bus stop and the cover of the phone book. I'd make the other people sorry to have messed with dd.

 

But that is me and I'm not a nice person.

 

I have had experience with this kind of custody case. The place where you need to spend money, where most people cheap out, is the home study. Do not get a cheap one done by a social worker. It will not be good enough to protect you. When you get a home study, spend the $5,000 to $10,000 up front to get one done by a kick-a## psychologist. The money saved over the next 18 years of the baby's life will be worth it. We did the cheap social worker option and if we had done the psychologist it certainly would have been uncovered that my step dd's mother has BPD and we would have been spared so much unsupervised visitation.

 

I suspect that most of the things that the grandparents are doing will appear to be ignorant or lazy to a social worker, a psychologist will pick up on the manipulation factor, where as a social worker will ignore that aspect.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

And here's the thing... the father doesn't want to be involved and this is fortunately a state without specific grandparents' rights.

 

So I think the OP would probably pay $10,000-20,000 out of pocket for a kick butt big city lawyer but likely, the other side will not.

 

An investment now could mean not having to spend the rest of this girl's life dealing with lowlifes. And the grandchild would be safe. Cash out whatever you need to make this happen.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Do the grandparents have a kick a** lawyer? Where did they find him/her?

[Farrar]

I mostly just want to add support to the idea that "being a good person" does not equal "being a doormat." I think there are ways to take the higher ground and still protect your interests and be a strong woman. Surely most of us, in addition to wanting to model being kind, forgiving, and loving want to model how to be strong and proud for our children? I hope the OP's dd can find her way to doing that as well.

[Laurie4b]

In my community, that behavior would not go further than the report. My dh is the county attorney who deals with this stuff, and this type of behavior just isn't actionable. As he said, you are allowed to be a crappy parent and inadvisable actions are not going to hurt your parental status.

 

Regardless, the OP's attorney knows what is and isn't actionable. I think the idea of sitting down with CHiPs (CPS in other states) and getting reportable guidelines is a great idea.

 

:grouphug:

 

If by "actionable" you mean "Could it be prosecuted with that as the only evidence?" I agree. On the other hand, if you mean CPS would ignore the report, that would vary by jurisdiction. However, it is enough of a flag of emotional abuse that I have confidence that they would investigate in our area. This is a BABY who cannot talk and there are additional red flags including the car seat issue and the disappearance/destruction of clothes. CPS is well acquainted with adults who see children as property and who object to alternate custody only because of wanting to win a power struggle, not for the best interests of the child.

 

When CPS gets a report that there is suspicion of abuse, they do an investigation. Most are reluctant to turn away a report because of a desire to CYA if nothing else. Most of the time, even if they document abuse of some kind, it does not get to court. They monitor, provide services, etc. A lot of cases go to court because of noncompliance with CPS, not the original report.

 

So, no, telling a baby to hit her mother is not a crime in most states. It most certainly can get you involved with CPS, however, and this is a custody case, not a criminal case. You are right, however, that different communities have different standards that affect what CPS will act on.

[Laurie4b]

I am wondering from the fact that OPs dd's attorney is state appointed. I am slack-jawed that, knowing that visitation was desired by the GPs not the father, that the attorney let that clause that "anyone close to the father" can pick up the child get in there without putting up a fight. My experience with state-appointed attorneys from when I worked in children's mental health was that many really only go through the motions.

 

Hiring a good attorney is the critical piece here. The one they have had, whether court-appointed or private, did not protect the child, which is what the mother wants.

 

OP, if you accompanying your dd makes things worse, by all means have her take someone else who the court might see as fairly neutral, such as a friend of the family who works in some professional capacity that the court is likely to respect (teacher, medical professional, etc.) There should be a witness every.time.

 

I don't know what your financial situation is OP, but other than a really good attorney, I would consider hiring a private investigator.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I am wondering from the fact that OPs dd's attorney is state appointed. Oops, somewhere our communication is faulty. Her attorney is not state appointed. DH and I made sure of that. We retained the best attorney we could find and afford. My point earlier was that court appointed, public attorneys are not going to go to the wall in custody cases. I am slack-jawed that, knowing that visitation was desired by the GPs not the father, that the attorney let that clause that "anyone close to the father" can pick up the child get in there without putting up a fight. My experience with state-appointed attorneys from when I worked in children's mental health was that many really only go through the motions. Yes, going through the motions was exactly what we didn't want. Please, remember, all of the paperwork has been filed through the father, not the grandparents. As far as the court is concerned the father is the one bringing legal action. There is a big difference between what happens in real life and what happens on paper. Just because we 'know' what is going on doesn't mean diddly if the paperwork is filed under the father's name and he continues to show up to court.

 

Hiring a good attorney is the critical piece here. The one they have had, whether court-appointed or private, did not protect the child, which is what the mother wants. I sincerely believe the attorney is doing a good job. Nobody knew when the documentation was written what would happen three months down the road and I cannot imagine the length and detail that would be required to cover every possible contingency. Then again, I am naive when it comes to custody matters.

 

I don't know what your financial situation is OP, but other than a really good attorney, I would consider hiring a private investigator.

I just looked in the phone book and there is one listing for a PI/Process Server. We have met him before when DD was served her papers. I guess if we went that route we would have to go out of town to look for one.

[Mom2Es]

Where does one find a barracuda of an attorney? We live in a small town with two family law attorneys. We would have to travel out of town to find someone else and that someone would not know local judges or the 'good ole boy' mentality of the local court system.

 

I thought this article was interesting: http://www.mrcustodycoach.com/blog/aggressive-childcustody-attorney

 

I also found this site, which is both state- and divorce-specific, but it does have a section on custody issues: http://aboutdivorce.com/index.html

 

I know people who have been successful using big city attorneys in a small town. If there are only two family lawyers in your town, I would assume that other people in your town have gone outside the immediate area, as well. I would start by checking http://www.avvo.com and your bar association. Then I would be sure to interview more than one attorney. I would specifically ask if they've had clients in your area and about how they would handle an unfamiliar good ol' boy network.