Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) PLEASE DON'T QUOTE - Edited to remove personal details after the wonderful posts below have helped me see the situation a bit more clearly. Thank you so much. Edited October 18, 2012 by The Dragon Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nukeswife Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug: For both you and your daughter. I have to say my gut reaction would be the same as yours. If they are going to be all about "that's not yours we paid for it" then treat them the same way. You know since the whole treat others as you would like to be treated isn't working with your dd being nice to them, so turn it around on them. Make the father pay his half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This is going to sound harsh, but at some point it would be very helpful for you to talk to your DD about how she needs to toughen up and not let stuff get to her so much. She bought this by getting involved with a loser, she should not have expected anything other than what she's getting - losers have loser parents who also act like losers. Now she's stuck with it, she's better learn to be strong or she's going to fly apart at the molecular level. That being said: -continue documenting everything, with photos if necessary -stop giving them anything, including a diaper bag (she should contact them ahead of time, in writing with signature confirmation with a necessities list) -submit all expenses to the necessary agency for what the father is supposed to pay -if the court order doesn't require the daughter to interact with the other grandparents, she should stop doing so and require the father to do all necessary exchanges with the baby -don't give any ground on anything and don't discuss it, either -don't take things personally (I know lots of people who think that the baby hitting an adult is precocious and funny - again, your daughter chose these people, she needs to EXPECT to be putting up with this kind of stupidity) If you do these things, consistently, they will get mad. After they get mad, if you keep doing them, they will either shape up or they will decide that having the child is too much trouble and eventually they will just go away. Either way, problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I am so sorry about this.:grouphug: I don't know the back story or why they get to have the baby but I can't imagine how difficult this is for your dd. If I were she I would keep sending supplies for the weekend but I would no longer be flexible with my time and I definitely would bill them for their share of the bills. I probably wouldn't meet them on the porch bc I'd want to be better than that but I would be really, really tempted! I'll pray for you all. I have NO idea who teaches a baby to hit his/her mother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I don't know anything about this situation but it seems terribly sad. I'm sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) :grouphug: I haven't had to deal with this personally. However, here's my take: Document each and every concession or lack thereof schedule-wise, if for no other reason than to show who is being accommodating. Do not accommodate any further special requests. No elaborate explanations, no confrontation. Just don't do it any more, quietly. Ask the attorney about the diapers, coats, supplies issue. I am pretty sure the father has to contribute. Follow the letter of the law on this one as it is a slippery slope. Submit the medical expenses, definitely. He is not likely to pay. However, this will give you more to document, and more ammo. Don't make a big fuss, just quietly do it. It's not time to get nasty, but it is definitely time to stop being so nice. On the surface, keep it all syrupy sweet though. Understand, too, that you will not be able to get much more from these people--you are just trying to document those things that ARE legally significant. Edited October 17, 2012 by strider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 He's parenting, not babysitting. Babysitters get children sent w/all their supplies. Parents are expected to provide them. So, I absolutely would not be paying for supplies to be sent w/them. They should have to provide EVERYTHING for baby, from the skin out, when she's in their care. PERIOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If you do these things, consistently, they will get mad. After they get mad, if you keep doing them, they will either shape up or they will decide that having the child is too much trouble and eventually they will just go away. Either way, problem solved. No, there's at least one more option. If they feel threatened they might dig in their heels and get worse, dragging everybody through CPS investigations and court appearances (whether by doing things so bad they can't be ignored, or by making things up about the other side)... I'd be careful, Mama. Firm and strong, but above reproach even by the other family's standards, as long as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I completely agree with you. It's ridiculously past time to sit dd down and tell her that's what needs to be done. I'd go so far as to refuse to keep buying everything if she doesn't put her foot down and start doing as you suggest. I wouldn't like it and it sounds like she has the misfortune to have a very people pleasing to point of being a doormat nature, do I don't think she would like it either. But enough is enough and I wouldn't enable this situation to continue. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 And the father does not have to pay child support why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This is going to sound harsh, but at some point it would be very helpful for you to talk to your DD about how she needs to toughen up and not let stuff get to her so much. She bought this by getting involved with a loser, she should not have expected anything other than what she's getting - losers have loser parents who also act like losers. Now she's stuck with it, she's better learn to be strong or she's going to fly apart at the molecular level. Wow... way to have sympathy for a young girl. :glare: Unfortunately, most teenagers don't take time to think about how they'll be connected to another family forever should a pregnancy occur. Maybe they should, but they don't. I agree with encouraging DD to toughen up, it's a tough life lesson. Not sure that telling her it's all her fault for getting involved with a loser is helpful at this point. :grouphug: I haven't had to deal with this personally. However, here's my take: Document each and every concession or lack thereof schedule-wise, if for no other reason than to show who is being accommodating. Do not accommodate any further special requests. No elaborate explanations, no confrontation. Just don't do it any more, quietly. Ask the attorney about the diapers, coats, supplies issue. I am pretty sure the father has to contribute. Follow the letter of the law on this one as it is a slippery slope. Submit the medical expenses, definitely. He is not likely to pay. However, this will give you more to document, and more ammo. Don't make a big fuss, just quietly do it. It's not time to get nasty, but it is definitely time to stop being so nice. On the surface, keep it all syrupy sweet though. Understand, too, that you will not be able to get much more from these people--you are just trying to document those things that ARE legally significant. I think this is good advice, especially the last part. Stay sweet on the surface, but document, protect yourself, and follow the letter of the law. I hope things get better, it sounds like an awful situation. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm assuming the baby has a nice pediatric paper trail of perfect well baby visits. I would be sure to let the pedi in on the situation. The pedi can be one of your best witnesses in case the other family tries to pull anything weird. Do not miss a single appointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 And the father does not have to pay child support why? He does, but it is peanuts. Big back story there that I cannot share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 No, there's at least one more option. If they feel threatened they might dig in their heels and get worse, dragging everybody through CPS investigations and court appearances (whether by doing things so bad they can't be ignored, or by making things up about the other side)... I'd be careful, Mama. Firm and strong, but above reproach even by the other family's standards, as long as possible. Absolutely. Document every single thing. Always have it in writing and or witnesses and document every single thing. I'd keep a diary. I'd refuse to even discuss most things with them. Keep as much if it in writing as possible. Date - "Blank picked up child and stated they had no clothes, diapers or food for her. They were informed that it is their responsibility to provide for her during their time and if they cannot then I would notify the courts of their neglect." Date - whatever call/email/text/in person event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm assuming the baby has a nice pediatric paper trail of perfect well baby visits. I would be sure to let the pedi in on the situation. The pedi can be one of your best witnesses in case the other family tries to pull anything weird. Do not miss a single appointment. She hasn't missed one and the ped is aware of the situation. She even sends appt reminders to the father so he knows when the baby is scheduled for a check up. He has yet to show up for an appt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumto2 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Your dd needs to be very careful. Everything must be documented. Some of that behavior really scares me. I have one question before I comment more. Does the father and his family insist on being involved? Must they have anything at all to do with the baby? Or would they go completely away if allowed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hmmm.... what's the legal take on this? Do they have a legal custody arrangement with a parenting plan in place? While you're "poor" it's a perfect time to seek legal aid and have him served. It serves more than one purpose. For one thing, you have a "middle man" who takes money from the guy and gives it to your daughter. No control issues get to exist.... Also, I'm surprised that they get a ton of time. Here it'd be at the max, every other wknd and a night (just the evening period) every week or every other week. I'm not sure what I'd send. I like organic everything, so it'd be hard to have them feed the baby nasty stuff... :( Sorry... it stinks... one of the reasons I'm glad I'm far, far way from my daughter's bio family... Who wants to deal with the stink? :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hmmm.... what's the legal take on this? Do they have a legal custody arrangement with a parenting plan in place? While you're "poor" it's a perfect time to seek legal aid and have him served. It serves more than one purpose. For one thing, you have a "middle man" who takes money from the guy and gives it to your daughter. No control issues get to exist....Also, I'm surprised that they get a ton of time. Here it'd be at the max, every other wknd and a night (just the evening period) every week or every other week. I'm not sure what I'd send. I like organic everything, so it'd be hard to have them feed the baby nasty stuff... :( Sorry... it stinks... one of the reasons I'm glad I'm far, far way from my daughter's bio family... Who wants to deal with the stink? :( But even if you send your organic stuff, there's no guarantee that they will either feed it to the baby or give it back to you afterwards, as it sounds like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This is going to sound harsh, but at some point it would be very helpful for you to talk to your DD about how she needs to toughen up and not let stuff get to her so much. She bought this by getting involved with a loser, she should not have expected anything other than what she's getting - losers have loser parents who also act like losers. Now she's stuck with it, she's better learn to be strong or she's going to fly apart at the molecular level. That being said: -continue documenting everything, with photos if necessary -stop giving them anything, including a diaper bag (she should contact them ahead of time, in writing with signature confirmation with a necessities list) -submit all expenses to the necessary agency for what the father is supposed to pay -if the court order doesn't require the daughter to interact with the other grandparents, she should stop doing so and require the father to do all necessary exchanges with the baby -don't give any ground on anything and don't discuss it, either -don't take things personally (I know lots of people who think that the baby hitting an adult is precocious and funny - again, your daughter chose these people, she needs to EXPECT to be putting up with this kind of stupidity) If you do these things, consistently, they will get mad. After they get mad, if you keep doing them, they will either shape up or they will decide that having the child is too much trouble and eventually they will just go away. Either way, problem solved. This. Both my sisters have to deal with jackasses. This works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Your dd needs to be very careful. Everything must be documented. Some of that behavior really scares me. I have one question before I comment more. Does the father and his family insist on being involved? Must they have anything at all to do with the baby? Or would they go completely away if allowed? Father doesn't want to be involved but the grandparents do. Our state does not acknowledge grandparent's rights so the grandparents took DD to court under the father's name. He shows up to court and sits in the chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Father doesn't want to be involved but the grandparents do. Our state does not acknowledge grandparent's rights so the grandparents took DD to court under the father's name. He shows up to court and sits in the chair. I would think that legally she could say she'd only give the baby to the father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galatea Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Father doesn't want to be involved but the grandparents do. Our state does not acknowledge grandparent's rights so the grandparents took DD to court under the father's name. He shows up to court and sits in the chair. If the grandparents have no rights, only the father, your daughter should REFUSE to deal with the grandparents. If they want to see the baby, the FATHER should be the one making all arrangements, picking up the baby, dropping the baby off on time, etc. Absolutely start submitting financial information so that he is fulfilling his end of the deal, especially if you already have the court order for it. The court is doing it's part to protect your daughter, she needs to do her part as well to protect and care for her baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Father doesn't want to be involved but the grandparents do. Our state does not acknowledge grandparent's rights so the grandparents took DD to court under the father's name. He shows up to court and sits in the chair. But WHO does the court say gets the visitation? If not the grandparents, then can she require him to do his part? Refuse to turn the baby over to anyone but him? Even if he just shows up to pick the baby up from her and leaves, it will inconvenience him. If the grandparents show up without him, can the daughter say, "I'm only turning the baby over to Father,"? IF so, that is what I would do. I'm willing to bet he won't show up more than a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 If the grandparents have no rights, only the father, your daughter should REFUSE to deal with the grandparents. If they want to see the baby, the FATHER should be the one making all arrangements, picking up the baby, dropping the baby off on time, etc. Absolutely start submitting financial information so that he is fulfilling his end of the deal, especially if you already have the court order for it. The court is doing it's part to protect your daughter, she needs to do her part as well to protect and care for her baby. Who cares what the grandparents want if they have no rights in this? Make the deliquent dad step up to the plate and he will fail at it. I think you need to have a serious sit down with your lawyer on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Wow... way to have sympathy for a young girl. :glare: She doesn't need sympathy. Right now she feels all upset and victimized like someone is doing something to her. That feeling is going to destroy her if she doesn't get real. She's not a victim here. She chose this and she needs to realize it. Once she does, she can start to deal with it like and adult and begin to minimize the damage to herself and her daughter as much as possible. But until she stops feeling sorry for herself, nothing will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingersmom Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 There is zero chance I would allow my child to turn my grandchild over to grandparents like that. If visitation is with the father then let the father be the one to pick up/drop off the baby. I would also make him pay 100% of his child support (even if it is $1/week) and pay for all expenses that he is required. I would send the baby with clothes to wear and nothing else. Let the father/grandparents buy diapers, food, stroller, etc. Tell your daughter to be strong. She needs to go to college and then law school so she can stand up to these people. :grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Tammy may have been harsh, but she was right. The girl may make wiser choices in the future if she remembers her own role in the current (and past) issues. I wouldn't throw it in her face and wouldn't discuss it often, but it is a fact. And she does need to be stronger. It is *hard* to deal with people who just try to lower you, but she's going to be tied to these people a *very* long time. Does she know what they WANT? Generally, though some people are just miserable jerks, people behave in ways to get something. Do they want more time with the child? Do they feel they have been shorted in some way? Do they feel obligated to stick around and resent it? It may be a possibility to figure out what they want and then find a way to give it to them. Of course, if they are trying to shirk responsibility or want something unreasonable, there is no way to do THAT. But maybe mediation could help call a truce? As for providing things for visitation? Well, no, she shouldn't have to. However, I have NEVER known a child who visited a parent who didn't take at least a couple outfits and such. My stepbrother's mother would send mismatched clothing in the worst condition but she DID send it. My mom simply had decent clothing available for him. And my parents sent home whatever outfit he was wearing on Sunday also. It is about the child, not the parents. Many foster parents deal with this also. If I were sending a child on a weekend visit, I certainly wouldn't send my fave outfits. Some simply onsies and shorts/jeans would be appropriate. They can provide cutesy dresses for outings or special outfits they like or whatever. Also, I would DEFINITELY send the child in any outfit they bought and send those outfits back with her on a weekly basis. I do that even now. Monkey's parents have sent a total of two outfits (and a stray pair of leggings I simply cannot match). I put the dress on her almost every other week. Though I don't do the holiday this month, the visit before, I will put her in the t-shirt they sent for that (though I find it awful as it is a good 10 years old and a couple sizes big for her). Diapers and such is hard. Yes, they should be providing it. But do you want them leaving her in nasty diapers in order to stretch what few they have (probably taken from your bags previously) because they won't go buy more? Again, it is about what is best for the CHILD and she needs diapers, wipes, ointment, etc. But documentation is good. It probably won't matter though. Fact is that the judge doesn't care who is buying diapers or withholding outfits at their home. And it is NECESSARY to be above reproach. Seriously, she could give into them every other week, but they will twist it as the mother gave in because she didn't care which weekend she had her. And if *she* were to ask for some concession, you can be sure it will be used against her. And though THEY are the ones without diapers for the child, if MOM were to "not have enough to give" to them, she'd be the neglectful one. They are going to twist and turn everything every which way. Blame the judge, the lawyer, the doctor, whatever, but follow that court order. Oh, I would also ask that the father be the one to do the exchanges, do them with witnesses, etc. Sorry this is happening. In better news? There are ALL SORTS of people who have MAJOR issues at first and it eventually calms down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 She doesn't need sympathy. Right now she feels all upset and victimized like someone is doing something to her. That feeling is going to destroy her if she doesn't get real. She's not a victim here. She chose this and she needs to realize it. Once she does, she can start to deal with it like and adult and begin to minimize the damage to herself and her daughter as much as possible. But until she stops feeling sorry for herself, nothing will help. I get what you're saying, and I agree she shouldn't see herself as a victim. She does need to learn to stand up for herself. I was just bristling a bit at the "you got involved with a loser, suck it up" as I think that's a mistake many people make when they're young... she needs support rather simply blame, and that's how I read your post at first. OP, I'm with the others who are asking why the grandparents need to be involved at all? If they want to see the baby, their son needs to step up. Their beef is with him. I guess I would discuss with the lawyer whether it's legally required to hand the baby over to the other grandparents?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in NH Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 This is going to sound harsh, but at some point it would be very helpful for you to talk to your DD about how she needs to toughen up and not let stuff get to her so much. She bought this by getting involved with a loser, she should not have expected anything other than what she's getting - losers have loser parents who also act like losers. Now she's stuck with it, she's better learn to be strong or she's going to fly apart at the molecular level. That being said: -continue documenting everything, with photos if necessary -stop giving them anything, including a diaper bag (she should contact them ahead of time, in writing with signature confirmation with a necessities list) -submit all expenses to the necessary agency for what the father is supposed to pay -if the court order doesn't require the daughter to interact with the other grandparents, she should stop doing so and require the father to do all necessary exchanges with the baby -don't give any ground on anything and don't discuss it, either -don't take things personally (I know lots of people who think that the baby hitting an adult is precocious and funny - again, your daughter chose these people, she needs to EXPECT to be putting up with this kind of stupidity) If you do these things, consistently, they will get mad. After they get mad, if you keep doing them, they will either shape up or they will decide that having the child is too much trouble and eventually they will just go away. Either way, problem solved. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I say fight fire with fire while the baby is too young to know what's going on. If your DD is always the one being nice, accommodating them, giving in, etc., she can use that as leverage. "Oh, you want to visit on such and such a day? Yeah, that doesn't really work for me. I'd be happy to switch days with you instead so you can get the time with her and I can do XYZ college activity." I'm sure she's doing what she feels is in the best interest of her child and that's why she's being so nice. At the very least, I would say that she needs to press for them to pay 50% of the child's costs if that is in the court documents. Isn't there ANYTHING she can do legally if they're teaching such a young child to hit her mother in the face? Domestic violence? Alienation of affection? Something? If they're teaching her that now, what other little gems is that poor child going to pick up down the road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) Father doesn't want to be involved but the grandparents do. Our state does not acknowledge grandparent's rights so the grandparents took DD to court under the father's name. He shows up to court and sits in the chair. Oh, well in that case it is time for him to do more. He should be the one picking up the baby. No one else. He should be paying his share of baby's expenses. Start sending bills for half of the medical visits, medicines, insurance, etc. Also start demanding that no one smoke around the baby or in the house that the baby is in. Take the father back to court on this if necessary. They won't be able to find an expert anywhere that will say it is safe for the baby to be in the house where someone is smoking. It is a health hazard. (ETA) If the Father wants to visit the baby try to get the court to say he has to get a smoke free room in a hotel or limit his visitation to times at your house so he can keep the child out of the health hazard that is the grandparents house. Don't send the baby with clothing or other supplies that could be contaminated by cigarette smoke. Send the father (not the grandparents. All correspondence should go to the father only) a letter stating the above and that she will no longer purchase supplies or clothing that will be contaminated. Make them want to fold up and go home. Edited October 17, 2012 by Parrothead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Oh, well in that case it is time for him to do more. He should be the one picking up the baby. No one else. He should be paying his share of baby's expenses. Start sending bills for half of the medical visits, medicines, insurance, etc. Also start demanding that no one smoke around the baby or in the house that the baby is in. Take the father back to court on this if necessary. They won't be able to find an expert anywhere that will say it is safe for the baby to be in the house where someone is smoking. It is a health hazard. Don't send the baby with clothing or other supplies that could be contaminated by cigarette smoke. Send the father (not the grandparents. All correspondence should go to the father only) a letter stating the above and that she will no longer purchase supplies or clothing that will be contaminated. Make them want to fold up and go home. Absolutely. Time for Daddy to step up. I would, in no way, make it easier for the grandparents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trlt Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I would follow the court order exactly. I would only give the baby to the father. I would get child support. I would not send things for the baby. I would not negotiate a different schedule. Maybe in the future things can change but right now, with what you described, I would just follow the court order exactly. That way everyone knows what is expected and there doesn't have to be any negotiating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I am so sorry. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Absolutely. Time for Daddy to step up. I would, in no way, make it easier for the grandparents. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth in MN Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I'm just going to respond and not read the rest of the replies. You are correct, OP, that it would be wrong to fight fire with fire. It will just up the drama to the point you are handing off or receiving naked and hungry baby. It won't make the other grandparents grow up. Using this as a discussion point with my own DD, she had some great ideas. She suggests, and I agree, that all parents and grandparents need to sit down and have a talk. My suggestion would be at a neutral location. Point out that teaching the baby to hit will lead to problems down the road such as in Preschool. You could point out that you're being very giving (and forgiving) and that they are not, but that is dangerous ground. These people will be in your alls life for ever. It may be that none of this works. However, the example you set for you DD and your DGD are huge. Stick to the high road, and document everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gailmegan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Oh, well in that case it is time for him to do more. He should be the one picking up the baby. No one else. He should be paying his share of baby's expenses. Start sending bills for half of the medical visits, medicines, insurance, etc. Also start demanding that no one smoke around the baby or in the house that the baby is in. Take the father back to court on this if necessary. They won't be able to find an expert anywhere that will say it is safe for the baby to be in the house where someone is smoking. It is a health hazard. (ETA) If the Father wants to visit the baby try to get the court to say he has to get a smoke free room in a hotel or limit his visitation to times at your house so he can keep the child out of the health hazard that is the grandparents house. Don't send the baby with clothing or other supplies that could be contaminated by cigarette smoke. Send the father (not the grandparents. All correspondence should go to the father only) a letter stating the above and that she will no longer purchase supplies or clothing that will be contaminated. Make them want to fold up and go home. :iagree: Deal with father only and put it all in writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 :grouphug:No advice, but hugs to you and your dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I would follow the court order exactly. I would only give the baby to the father. I would get child support. I would not send things for the baby. I would not negotiate a different schedule. Maybe in the future things can change but right now, with what you described, I would just follow the court order exactly. That way everyone knows what is expected and there doesn't have to be any negotiating. Follow the law. If the visitation is order is for the father, then the baby is only handed over to the father, period. I agree with everything in the above post. Also, hand baby off to father with a witness and in a public place. There is too much he said/she said in this kind of situation. He can't say "she did this or that" if the hand off is in the McDonald's playland and there are other adults around. If he appears drunk or otherwise unsafe to take the child, call the police from the McDonald's. They are more likely to respond quickly to a public disturbance call then an "custody" dispute in a private home. She just should not hand over this child at a private residence because these people can't be trusted. She must be strong because if she appears weak, they will take advantage of it. Do not agree to changes in the visitation schedule. Do not let the threat of CPS make her knees wilt. The vast majority of CPS workers I've met aren't push overs. They know the law. They know what jerks look like, sound like, and act like. They'll interview her, they'll interview him, they'll check the paperwork and discover that the grandparents were not awarded visitation, just the father and he isn't doing his part. They don't rip children away from their homes on whims and they are very partial to whatever the court ordered. Too many people allow the threat of CPS being called cripple them into not doing what is best. :grouphug::grouphug: Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Mostly just :grouphug: and agreed with everyone else: keep up documenting, stop playing nice, stop giving them the supplies, and stop handing the kid over to the grandparents if they don't have any rights. Your dd is obviously trying to compromise so that she can avoid conflict and hopefully smooth everything over. But it's not working. She has to toughen up and learn to be a total witch to them, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Good grief, what imbeciles. Agreeing with everyone who has said to be sure to keep all your ducks in a row and follow whatever the court papers say. If the grandparent are not on any of the court papers, then only deal with the father. Definitely ask for reimbursement of medical expeses, but realize you probably won't get anything. Also, I wanted to reiterate what was said about sending clothing and supplies not being something you do for the other parent/ grandparents. It is for the child. Don't send your favorites, but do send clothing that fits and is appropriate for the season. I would definitely send enough diapers out of concern that they would leave her in dirty diapers if they didn't have enough. Remember: they may do what is easiest for them, but your daughter needs to do what is best for her daughter. Sorry- Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Good grief, what imbeciles. Agreeing with everyone who has said to be sure to keep all your ducks in a row and follow whatever the court papers say. If the grandparent are not on any of the court papers, then only deal with the father. Definitely ask for reimbursement of medical expeses, but realize you probably won't get anything. Also, I wanted to reiterate what was said about sending clothing and supplies not being something you do for the other parent/ grandparents. It is for the child. Don't send your favorites, but do send clothing that fits and is appropriate for the season. I would definitely send enough diapers out of concern that they would leave her in dirty diapers if they didn't have enough. Remember: they may do what is easiest for them, but your daughter needs to do what is best for her daughter. Sorry- Mandy The idea isn't to get anything, but to document for the courts for later. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Father doesn't want to be involved but the grandparents do. Our state does not acknowledge grandparent's rights so the grandparents took DD to court under the father's name. He shows up to court and sits in the chair. I would think that legally she could say she'd only give the baby to the father. I would follow the court order exactly. I would only give the baby to the father. I would get child support. I would not send things for the baby. I would not negotiate a different schedule. Maybe in the future things can change but right now, with what you described, I would just follow the court order exactly. That way everyone knows what is expected and there doesn't have to be any negotiating. All bets off. She is under no obligation to do anything at all with anyone other than the father and should stop. The end. Document the heck out of all things. And keep all interaction at public facilities. This is nuts that she has been doing this at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Another thing that I would add, just to keep the drama level down, is that if I were her, I'd act realllllly stupid when they start objecting to her following the court order to the letter. "Oh, I know, it's just, well the court order says I have to." "People say that you have to follow or the judge can put you in jail" "but it doesn't say I should give diapers, I don't want to do anything but what it says" All of this said in a sympathetic, whispy voice while she bats are doe eyes and looks slightly befuddled.:001_unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I would like to know why they have any rights to the baby? Grandparents rights are usually hard to get unless there are big circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 OK I just read some more sorry about that. Do not give the baby to no one but the father. File a restraining order against the grandparents and problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 I would like to know why they have any rights to the baby? Grandparents rights are usually hard to get unless there are big circumstances. It sounds like his parents pushed him into pursuing visitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 File a restraining order against the grandparents and problem solved. Interesting. What grounds would the mom have to file a restraining order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkacademy Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Interesting. What grounds would the mom have to file a restraining order? The car seat thing for one. I read before they are putting her in the wrong seat, thats illegal. Not too mention they have no rights to this child she doesn't need to give them any if they are acting like fools. Refuse to hand the child over they have no rights to her period. I played this game when I was younger. I won this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gailmegan Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The car seat thing for one. I read before they are putting her in the wrong seat, thats illegal. Not too mention they have no rights to this child she doesn't need to give them any if they are acting like fools. Refuse to hand the child over they have no rights to her period. I played this game when I was younger. I won this game. I hadn't thought of that. Add the cigarette burns to her property and teaching the child to hit. A restraining order for the grandparents might be the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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