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About dating/courtship/marriage? What age do you start talking to them about relationships?

Our boys are getting to an age I feel we need to address our views on relationships and marriage. All we have told them so far is that they need to be able to support their future wife and children. We want them to accept, as fact, that they may be the primary breadwinner. We are conservative Christians, no flaming please. :001_smile:

Have you found any good resources or conversation starters?

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We haven't had a formal talk about it, we just sprinkle it in through our day to day lives. My son will be 14 next week. Eventually, when he shows the signs of needing it, we'll have him read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye".

 

In general we speak against recreational dating; that we believe it is a setup for failure for the participants and does nothing to enhance their lives. Dating, we teach, is a process of getting to know potential spouses and should be undertaken when you are ready to take on a spouse and begin supporting a family (after college, with no debt, and some money in the bank). Generally, we think the minimum age is likely to be 25 (but flexible depending on circumstances) and could be as high as 30.

 

We also teach that we believe that men who get married should not pursue excessively dangerous careers or careers that cause work to consume 60+ hour weeks on a regular basis (ex. we would discourage a physician from dating until after they were through residency).

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Frankly, Wolf and I haven't really figured out yet how we feel about dating.

 

I mean, Wolf would rather our dds wait until they're 30, or he's dead, which ever comes later :lol: I've informed him that's not reasonable.

 

We've set an arbitrary age of 16. No logical reason for it, though. Perhaps b/c Diva's going to be 14 next mth, and it buys us another 2 yrs of not having to deal w/it.

 

We're going to have to sit down and figure out where we stand on it, and reasons for our thinking/decision, but Wolf's clinging to his ostrich pov right now :tongue_smilie:

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We haven't had a formal talk about it, we just sprinkle it in through our day to day lives.

 

:iagree: We started somewhere between 8-9yo with my oldest dd. I haven't started sprinkling anything with my 8yo ds yet, but only b/c he hasn't noticed anything remotely related to girls or relationships.

 

With all the kids, I point out dh's wonderful husband traits.

 

My philosophy is that I want to present the information before they need it. I want my views to be in their subconscience before they start tuning me out in those teen/brain fog years. I want my kid to view potential girl/boyfriends through a filter I helped create.

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We've always been open with our boys about our biblical stance on dating and marriage. It's just ingrained in what we've taught and modeled, not really anything formal.

 

DS18 met his intended when they were only 12. A friend had invited her to youth group at the church we had just joined. It was very clear early on that while young, both were serious about someday making a lifetime commitment to each other. Time and distance apart only grew their base friendship stronger. Now future DIL is weekly adding to her wedding planner to gather ideas as she goes, even though an engagement ring is still several months away. She's also a hser and plans to hs their kids someday. :D

 

This did create some issues with DS14 who kept wanting to have "girlfriends" in junior high, but only because "everyone had one". :rolleyes: He's finally lost most of the ps mentality that he had and is perfectly fine with having lots of friend girls until the time is right for him to meet his own intended.

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I teach

 

That some people get married, and some don't, And either way is fine for them.

That Christans ethically believe that you will marry someone of the opposite gender.

That you can't get married until you at an adult.

That marriage is a partnership, and it really matters who you choose, so that you can work out good ways of sharing responsibilities.

That it is good for kids to have friends of both genders, and to generally 'be a friend'.

That kids can start getting crushes quite young, and that it's perfectly normal to develop a crush on an opposite gender friend.

That dates are a time to do an activity just the two of you, with a friend that you have a crush on, who also has a crush on you -- but you aren't usually alone together, you are 'out' among other people.

That people often have very strong feelings of joy/sorrow at the beginning and end of a dating relationship, but that strong feelings are not something that lasts forever.

That sex is for marriage only, but dating couples experience temptations and should plan to help themselves.

That there is a difference between dating (going on dates from time to time) and a relationship where you only date one person and need to 'break up' if you want to not do that any more.

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We haven't had a formal talk about it, we just sprinkle it in through our day to day lives. My son will be 14 next week. Eventually, when he shows the signs of needing it, we'll have him read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye".

 

In general we speak against recreational dating; that we believe it is a setup for failure for the participants and does nothing to enhance their lives. Dating, we teach, is a process of getting to know potential spouses and should be undertaken when you are ready to take on a spouse and begin supporting a family (after college, with no debt, and some money in the bank). Generally, we think the minimum age is likely to be 25 (but flexible depending on circumstances) and could be as high as 30.

 

We also teach that we believe that men who get married should not pursue excessively dangerous careers or careers that cause work to consume 60+ hour weeks on a regular basis (ex. we would discourage a physician from dating until after they were through residency).

 

 

This is similar to how I am raising ds12. He currently has it in his mind that he will be married at 20. He thinks he will be able to support himself and a wife by then.Riiiight. :glare:

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Generally, we think the minimum age is likely to be 25 (but flexible depending on circumstances) and could be as high as 30.

 

We also teach that we believe that men who get married should not pursue excessively dangerous careers or careers that cause work to consume 60+ hour weeks on a regular basis (ex. we would discourage a physician from dating until after they were through residency).

 

 

:001_huh:

 

I believe that if boys/men are encouraged to wait until they are 25 to take a girl on a date, that the first date--which would occur between the ages of 25 to 30, could be somewhat awkward.

 

Also, if you have a desire that your sons be the primary breadwinners, it may be difficult if you encourage them to go into a job where they work less than 60 hours a week.

 

Yes, there are some jobs that pay well that do not have much overtime. Many of the jobs that pay well enough to support a family on one income include a fair amount of overtime.

 

Also most physicians work over 60 hours a week even after they are done training.

 

Following your advice, your sons should not consider being doctors, accountants, or computer programmers.

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:001_huh:

 

I believe that if boys/men are encouraged to wait until they are 25 to take a girl on a date, that the first date--which would occur between the ages of 25 to 30, could be somewhat awkward.

 

Most first dates are awkward.

 

In our case, we aren't encouraging ds12 not to speak to or interact with females or girls his age until such time as he is ready for marriage. We are in fact encouraging him to be friends with girls and get to know many different personality types to find the best fit for him. It is the dating one on one and alone and being all 'in love' that we will discourage.

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Generally people who marry in their early 20s 'live like students' together, sharing responsibilities -- rather than like middle class, single bread-winner families. A one bedroom place, complete with a free cycle futon and goodwill kitchen wares isn't that difficult of a lifestyle to support.

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We're starting to navigate these waters right now.

 

My girls know they have to go to college. ;) Just kidding. But I really want them to, and we talk about it a lot. We are considering telling them that we won't pay for a wedding until they get done with college or in a stable career. Flame away, but that's what we're thinking. I want my daughters to be able to support themselves and their future families. If they want to be a stay at home mom, and their husband can help make that happen, great. If not, great; they'll be ready either way.

 

We have told our girls that most people get married, but it's perfectly fine not to. And that if God's plan for them is marriage that He has the perfect man for them.

 

We are not a courtship family. I refuse to tell my girls that they cannot date until she is ready to be married. Considering that some people don't marry until 30 or older, I think it's unreasonable. I think dating is for meeting and getting to know lots of people. Of course, heartbreaks are bound to happen, but those are generally short-lived. And I have fond memories of my boyfriends pre-Patrick. I'm not permanently scarred by any of those relationships, even my first love, so maybe that makes me less against dating. We don't have a specific age picked out when they may date. We'll take it one step at a time.

 

I have also told Anna that God's plan for sex was to be between a man and his wife. I would like for my daughters to wait to have sex until they are married.

 

Mostly, right now, we try to make sure they have a strong self-confidence and see what a marriage should look like. We have our moments, of course, but overall we have a strong, healthy, loving marriage. My daughters know how a man should treat a woman. Thankfully they have a great model for that in their dad.

 

We also pray. We pray a lot. For the girls and their future husbands.

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Generally people who marry in their early 20s 'live like students' together, sharing responsibilities -- rather than like middle class, single bread-winner families. A one bedroom place, complete with a free cycle futon and goodwill kitchen wares isn't that difficult of a lifestyle to support.

 

True and I am not opposed to that. That depends on maturity of the individual as to whether or not I would encourage or discourage...but as we see IRL and on this board all the time, it is often completely out of the parents hands. Legal adults will do what they please. But as far as what *I* will support....I'd like to see ds wait until he is somewhat mature before he starts selecting a wife. And I don't want him to get a gf at 16 and then wait until he is mature to marry her. That defeats the point of choosing when you are older and have more experience in different personality and cultures.

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I refuse to tell my girls that they cannot date until she is ready to be married. Considering that some people don't marry until 30 or older, I think it's unreasonable.

 

 

I have also told Anna that God's plan for sex was to be between a man and his wife. I would like for my daughters to wait to have sex until they are married.

 

It seems to me that the above two thoughts are at odds with each other.

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We are not a courtship family. I refuse to tell my girls that they cannot date until she is ready to be married. Considering that some people don't marry until 30 or older, I think it's unreasonable.

 

You do realize that folks who don't actually marry until age 30 could possible have been READY to be married much younger? Just the right guy didn't come around.

 

I was completely unwilling to date anyone who was not a marriage prospect. However, that did not keep me from ruling someone else out as a prospect after having one or two dates. It also did not prevent me from having male friends and meeting people outside of a dating context.

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You do realize that folks who don't actually marry until age 30 could possible have been READY to be married much younger? Just the right guy didn't come around.

 

I was completely unwilling to date anyone who was not a marriage prospect. However, that did not keep me from ruling someone else out as a prospect after having one or two dates. It also did not prevent me from having male friends and meeting people outside of a dating context.

 

Sure, I realize that. I'm not sure what I posted that would contradict it. If they choose to do as you did, that's fine with me. I'm just not going to force a set of rules on them.

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We teach that:

 

Men and women need to respect each other and can be friends without being sexually attracted to each other.

 

Sexual expression of love is a positive and powerful thing and they needn't be ashamed of sexual feelings.

 

Delaying sexual intercourse until old enough to deal with all of the emotions and potential outcomes is wise. That mom and dad have only been intimate with each other and that that has serious benefits.

 

That there are all kinds of families and that roles in the home and workplace may or may not line up with gender norms. And that is ok. That regardless of gender norms, good dads are hands on and help with all aspects of parenting as they can.

 

That their cousins' dads are not able to get married but we support changing the law so they are free to do so.

 

That marriage is not always roses and sunshine but it is a forever commitment and takes maturity and work to make last.

 

We do believe that recreational pre-marriage dating has benefits and need not result in early sexual activity. Plus, we are very socially progressive so that influences what we teach. Our 9 year old has just started asking questions so we answer those as they come up. Also we don't believe that we ether do or should control what our children decide to do when they are grown with regards to marriage and dating.

Edited by kijipt
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Generally people who marry in their early 20s 'live like students' together, sharing responsibilities -- rather than like middle class, single bread-winner families. A one bedroom place, complete with a free cycle futon and goodwill kitchen wares isn't that difficult of a lifestyle to support.

Right. DH and I knew each other from church and became a couple at the end of high school. We didnt marry until I finished college and we lived the student life together. It worked very well. Currently DH is the breadwinner of the family though I was our main breadwinner early in our marriage.

 

I do not agree with making people wait until late 20s to get serious and marry. Instead, I believe its better to raise young people who are mature enough to choose spouses and get married in their early twenties. I loved having my children young and not having to wait as long to have sex - bc lets face it, sexual drive is highest during the teen and young adult years Being married is the solution to that temptation and if youre mature enough to establish a life together then I dont see why age should be a barrier. I was engaged at 20 and married at 21 and we will soon celebrate our 10th wedding anniversary.

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Generally people who marry in their early 20s 'live like students' together, sharing responsibilities -- rather than like middle class, single bread-winner families. A one bedroom place, complete with a free cycle futon and goodwill kitchen wares isn't that difficult of a lifestyle to support.

 

We were 21 and 22. We lived in a studio and bought nothing new. It worked out well for us. However, many people wait till they are more established and that is a great way to go as well.

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I believe that if boys/men are encouraged to wait until they are 25 to take a girl on a date, that the first date--which would occur between the ages of 25 to 30, could be somewhat awkward.

 

I don't mean to seem rude, but...so? Awkward never killed anyone, as far as I know.

 

I'm sure there are lots of careers that will be ruled out by our value system, but that doesn't mean anything. If you want a family, you need to be there for them. That means you can't work excessive hours out of the home on a long term basis.

 

We believe that family comes first and the career serves the family, not the other way around.

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Well, I do too. But I think it is unreasonable to expect to date for 15 years and remain chaste.

 

 

Well, it definitely would be really difficult!! I don't think we disagree totally, Scarlett. It's not that I want them to start going out with every guy in town when they're 15 or 16 but not get married until they are 30. But I also don't think it's reasonable to tell my adult children that they cannot date because they aren't ready to be married. Like I said, my belief is that dating is for getting to know people. It's my desire they that not have sex with anyone other than their husband, but again, it's not my decision in the end. My hope is that by the time they are adults, they are mature enough to make smart decisions. As far as teen dating, I'm not completely opposed. We do not have an "acceptable dating age" specified. There is a difference between dating and having a serious (and perhaps sexual) relationship.

 

Sorry for the rambling post; I'm trying to get out the door.

Edited by Nakia
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Frankly, Wolf and I haven't really figured out yet how we feel about dating.

 

I mean, Wolf would rather our dds wait until they're 30, or he's dead, which ever comes later :lol: I've informed him that's not reasonable.

 

We've set an arbitrary age of 16. No logical reason for it, though. Perhaps b/c Diva's going to be 14 next mth, and it buys us another 2 yrs of not having to deal w/it.

 

We're going to have to sit down and figure out where we stand on it, and reasons for our thinking/decision, but Wolf's clinging to his ostrich pov right now :tongue_smilie:

for us, we've stated that we will discuss and consider dating at age 16, which gives us an out if we have an immature 16 yo.

 

I don't think that making my kids wait till they are through college and established for marriage is the best. I don't encourage young marriage, nor do I discourage it. I don't believe in a one size fits all approach to marriage, dating or courtship.

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I do not agree with making people wait until late 20s to get serious and marry. Instead, I believe its better to raise young people who are mature enough to choose spouses and get married in their early twenties. I loved having my children young and not having to wait as long to have sex - bc lets face it, sexual drive is highest during the teen and young adult years Being married is the solution to that temptation and if youre mature enough to establish a life together then I dont see why age should be a barrier. I was engaged at 20 and married at 21 and we will soon celebrate our 10th wedding anniversary.

 

I don't think that anyone is *necessarily* saying that it must be late 20s as a minimum, only that for most kids that maturity isn't likely to be there before late 20s. I do recognize this isn't always the case (particularly with girls, who may be ready as early as late teens and might just happen to stumble upon an older guy who is ready to support a family). But I think with most kids maturity and readiness (which we define as ready to make a lifelong covenant and being debt-free) will not come before their mid/late 20s. Perhaps I see it this way because I have boys and not girls.

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I would consider it unreasonable to date the same person, in an ongoing (not long distance) relationship, for 15 years and remain sexually celebate... But in that case, it's more likely that the couple would marry rather than wait. However, spending years dating a variety of people, with periods of singleness in between -- without having sex with any of them -- isn't at all unreasonable. Many people do that for 15 years or longer.

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We also teach that we believe that men who get married should not pursue excessively dangerous careers or careers that cause work to consume 60+ hour weeks on a regular basis (ex. we would discourage a physician from dating until after they were through residency).

 

Just curious about women having dangerous careers (I'm thinking police or firefighter or soldier?).

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Well, I do too. But I think it is unreasonable to expect to date for 15 years and remain chaste.

 

I think that kind of recreational dating, for Christian children, is just a set up. The ends of dating is marriage, marriage leads to sex, sex leads to kids. I just don't see the wisdom in putting kids in a situation and asking them to NOT carry it to it's logical end.

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Like I said, my belief is that dating is for getting to know people.

 

I don't understand this. We all have managed to get to know LOTS of people without dating. If we can do it without dating, then why date, unless you are looking for something else? How do you see the dating relationship different than other ways of getting to know people?

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse, I'm sincerely not understanding your thinking.

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I would consider it unreasonable to date the same person, in an ongoing (not long distance) relationship, for 15 years and remain sexually celebate... But in that case, it's more likely that the couple would marry rather than wait. However, spending years dating a variety of people, with periods of singleness in between -- without having sex with any of them -- isn't at all unreasonable. Many people do that for 15 years or longer.

 

Yes! Thank you. I couldn't figure out how to word it. You said what I was trying to say perfectly.

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I don't understand this. We all have managed to get to know LOTS of people without dating. If we can do it without dating, then why date, unless you are looking for something else? How do you see the dating relationship different than other ways of getting to know people?

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse, I'm sincerely not understanding your thinking.

 

It's okay if you don't understand. And I don't think you're being obtuse. I did mention in a post above that I think there is a difference between dating and having a serious (and perhaps sexual) relationship. I just don't object to people spending one on one time with members of the opposite sex even if their intentions aren't marriage (at the time). I'm not talking about 14 year olds here. I don't have any intention of sending my young teenage girl out on a private date.

 

It's okay to agree to disagree. I don't understand some of your thinking either.

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I don't understand this. We all have managed to get to know LOTS of people without dating. If we can do it without dating, then why date, unless you are looking for something else? How do you see the dating relationship different than other ways of getting to know people?

 

 

 

:iagree:

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Just curious about women having dangerous careers (I'm thinking police or firefighter or soldier?).

 

I don't have girls, so I often don't think in terms of them.

 

It's not that there is a list of you should have these careers and not those. It's that you have children (as a mother or father): you need to think reallllllllllllly hard about whether your desired profession is excessively dangerous and whether it's realllllly worth risking that your children won't have a parent.

 

So, there is no "one sized career" answer, but a principle. Where I live, you could be a police officer your whole life and never draw your weapon (I haven't heard of a cop getting killed around here in ages, and the last one that I can recall was accidentally kit by a car while writing a ticket). So around here, I imagine police officer is relatively low risk. In some of the worst cities? Probably too much risk.

.

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Maybe the difference is the definition of dating. Around here most teens go on group dates, which is either a group of teens, some single, and some in "relationships" going to football games or movies. This could also mean several couples going out together. It doesn't mean a serious (and/or sexual) relationship. It also doesn't mean teens spending lots of time unsupervised. Most of the teens I know that are dating see each other at school, at church, and maybe one evening on the weekends, either in these group dates, or at family functions.

 

BTW, these are older teens! Not middle schoolers or early teens. Of course, there are some kids that are "dating" but I'm talking about near-adults going on dates.

 

Again, I'm not teaching/encouraging my girls to start dating in middle school. My daughter is in 7th grade and a boy friend of hers from church texts her sometimes. I don't have a problem with it. I would have a problem with her wanting to "go out" with a boy because she's 12! And she's not mature enough to handle those emotions.

 

 

Edited by Nakia
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It's okay if you don't understand. And I don't think you're being obtuse. I did mention in a post above that I think there is a difference between dating and having a serious (and perhaps sexual) relationship. I just don't object to people spending one on one time with members of the opposite sex even if their intentions aren't marriage (at the time). I'm not talking about 14 year olds here. I don't have any intention of sending my young teenage girl out on a private date.

 

It's okay to agree to disagree. I don't understand some of your thinking either.

 

I'm not even saying that I disagree. I'm saying that I literally don't understand. How do you see getting to know someone in a date as different to getting to know someone without a date? If you don't want them pursuing a relationship, then what do you see as the benefit of dating?

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I'm not even saying that I disagree. I'm saying that I literally don't understand. How do you see getting to know someone in a date as different to getting to know someone without a date? If you don't want them pursuing a relationship, then what do you see as the benefit of dating?

 

How is it that you get to know people without dating?

 

For me, I've met women/friends for coffee or lunch, hung out at each others' homes while kids play, hung out at meetings, and gone to the movies or performances with close friends. I did those same things with boys/men and called them dates.

 

For me growing up, it was just two people who liked each other and wanted to hang out and get to know each other better. Many times those things happened in groups of friends, sometimes they were one on one.

 

I honestly think it's all the same thing but your saying it's just getting to know friends and some think it could also be called dating (when between two interested parties). Do you do something different when getting to know friends?

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I think it is highly unreasonable to expect law enforcement, firefighters and military folks to remain childless. Yes something could happen. But dangerous things can happen in all sorts of generally safe professions. My husband's pharmacy could get shot up for narcotics. He could get hit by a car while commuting by bike. Both of those things are far from unheard of. When I worked, I could have been killed in the very unsavory parts of town I worked in (homelessness non-profits are where they are needed.) Not very dangerous, but there are risks everwhere. People who choose to put themselves in harms way for the good of the community are heros and admirable. People can be excellent parents even if they have risky professions. I know a couple where on parent works in the county high risk ER and the other is a federal law enforcement agent. They are great parents. And a single mother who works in law enforcement. Again, a great mother.

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My kids are so young, they think that marriage is the act by which the female becomes pregnant.

 

I'm not kidding. They really do. :lol:

 

:lol: My dds have always loved animal documentaries. When they were younger and it showed an animal having a baby, they always would say, "Oh, she got married!".

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I think it is highly unreasonable to expect law enforcement, firefighters and military folks to remain childless. Yes something could happen. But dangerous things can happen in all sorts of generally safe professions. My husband's pharmacy could get shot up for narcotics. He could get hit by a car while commuting by bike. Both of those things are far from unheard of. When I worked, I could have been killed in the very unsavory parts of town I worked in (homelessness non-profits are where they are needed.) Not very dangerous, but there are risks everwhere. People who choose to put themselves in harms way for the good of the community are heros and admirable. People can be excellent parents even if they have risky professions. I know a couple where on parent works in the county high risk ER and the other is a federal law enforcement agent. They are great parents. And a single mother who works in law enforcement. Again, a great mother.

 

I agree that those people are heros. I agree that they can be excellent parents - until they're dead.

 

You think it's unreasonable to expect certain people to remain childless. I think it's unreasonable to put children in a situation where there is a high risk of becoming an orphan. Different priorities.

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Some people want to say that dating is the same as just getting to know others, fine. I haven't the patience for semantic games.

 

Anyone who has been on a date knows it's not the same.

 

If you don't know it, try this test. Call up an old boyfriend or an attractive neighbor. Set a date for a dinner at a romantic restaurant. Then try to you tell your husband it's ok, because you're just getting to know each other. You really, truly have nothing more in mind.:tongue_smilie:

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About dating/courtship/marriage? What age do you start talking to them about relationships?

Our boys are getting to an age I feel we need to address our views on relationships and marriage. All we have told them so far is that they need to be able to support their future wife and children. We want them to accept, as fact, that they may be the primary breadwinner. We are conservative Christians, no flaming please. :001_smile:

Have you found any good resources or conversation starters?

 

I think daily life is a good starter. Why they need to have a good work ethic, why they need to do well in school, what kind of men they'll be, how AWESOME their dad is, :D what you appreciate about him, how he supports your family and cares for his children. They should HEAR and SEE how much you appreciate that he goes out every day to earn a living so you can stay home and raise the children and homeschool. They'll value what YOU value.

 

Conversations are wonderful and appropriate, but actions will also count. We talk about this though it's not entirely formal. We put more pressure on than "may" and say "ideally" you WILL be the breadwinner. I WANT my son to be a man who expects to support his wife and who ACTIVELY SEEKS a woman who has made a commitment to stay home and truly raise their children.

 

Flame away, I stand by it.

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Some people want to say that dating is the same as just getting to know others, fine. I haven't the patience for semantic games.

 

Anyone who has been on a date knows it's not the same.

 

If you don't know it, try this test. Call up an old boyfriend or an attractive neighbor. Set a date for a dinner at a romantic restaurant. Then try to you tell your husband it's ok, because you're just getting to know each other. You really, truly have nothing more in mind.:tongue_smilie:

 

:smilielol5:

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Some people want to say that dating is the same as just getting to know others, fine. I haven't the patience for semantic games.

 

Anyone who has been on a date knows it's not the same.

 

If you don't know it, try this test. Call up an old boyfriend or an attractive neighbor. Set a date for a dinner at a romantic restaurant. Then try to you tell your husband it's ok, because you're just getting to know each other. You really, truly have nothing more in mind.:tongue_smilie:

 

:D

 

Love it.

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Some people want to say that dating is the same as just getting to know others, fine. I haven't the patience for semantic games.

 

Anyone who has been on a date knows it's not the same.

 

If you don't know it, try this test. Call up an old boyfriend or an attractive neighbor. Set a date for a dinner at a romantic restaurant. Then try to you tell your husband it's ok, because you're just getting to know each other. You really, truly have nothing more in mind.:tongue_smilie:

 

How is that even close to what we're talking about?? We're not talking about married people in this conversation.

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I agree that those people are heros. I agree that they can be excellent parents - until they're dead.

 

You think it's unreasonable to expect certain people to remain childless. I think it's unreasonable to put children in a situation where there is a high risk of becoming an orphan. Different priorities.

 

Wow! did you really just type this?!? Do you realize that people everyday die in normal circumstances?

 

Do you know that those people like the police and firefighters are the ones that save and rescue some of those "normal" people so they can all go home to their families.

 

I'm almost afraid to ask how you feel about military families.

 

Do you drive over a bridge? Do you live in a house? These are completed by people who risk their lives too. Ever work on a roof in mid July and end up with heat stroke so some family could have a new roof? My dh almost did. Ever watch a bridge worker dangle over a river or ravine so you could drive straight over it. God bless them.

 

My dh lost his father in a car accident when dh was 9. Cars are dangerous too. Do you use those?

 

Life is a gamble. No one gets out alive. I am glad there are people who will risk their lives so that mine time on this earth can be better and safer. Those are exactly the kind of people who need to have lots of kids.

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I agree that those people are heros. I agree that they can be excellent parents - until they're dead.

 

You think it's unreasonable to expect certain people to remain childless. I think it's unreasonable to put children in a situation where there is a high risk of becoming an orphan. Different priorities.

 

:001_huh:. People die every day. Some in their sleep, some from cancer, etc. By your logic you saying that they shouldn't have kids.

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How is that even close to what we're talking about?? We're not talking about married people in this conversation.

We are trying to figure out whether (and why, and how) 'getting to know someone' say, by chatting in the Church foyer is substantially different from 'getting to know them' by going out on a date.

 

An avenue for exploration is... if it does not differ, why does it feel different when a married woman chats after Church? Since that does 'feel' different, being closer to home for us adult married folks -- perhaps then we can see why a teen might consider a date to be an avenue for 'getting to know' their crush in some way that differs from chatting at a youth event.

 

If the conclusion is that yes, dating provides a different/distinct 'getting to know' experience for people (distinct from other social situations) then it is plausible to say, "The purpose of dating is to get to know people." -- and it provides an answer to, "Why can't you solely get to know them in non-date settings?"

 

If the conclusion is that a date provides the same 'getting to know' experience as other social settings -- then it there is no answer (yet provided) to "Why can't you solely get to know them in non-date settings?" Therefore the idea that, "The purpose of dating is to get to know people." -- seems disingenuous, a cover for other (nefarious?) motives like, "I like to feel special to someone and unique in their eyes." or, "I like to imitate my elders by pretending to be in a deeper relationship than I really am in."

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