CLE math & MM users & catching up

[LAmom]

So, I decided to get CLE Math. I ordered gr 1 and gr 4, the first half. I think I want to go with CLE full-time (though putting us behind now since starting late). But, part of me feels like I will miss out on what MM has to offer (we use it now and i have the whole light blue series). How do I figure out what to supplement? I'm primarily wanting to use MM's conceptual teaching.

 

I'm also stressed about my "2nd" grader who is extremely behind in math and reading and, well, everything... How do I get him up to speed? Start somewhere in the first grade level, memorize his addition facts and push through trying to get through 2nd grade stuff? I just want him to be on level, like starting 3rd grade math in 3 grade. :tongue_smilie: How did I let him get so behind? Sigh. My fault mostly...

 

Also, do you buy the teacher's manual? It looks like mostly an answer key (4th grade).

 

Anyways, all that to say I'm just really needing to figure out how to nicely combine the two without doing too much. I would appreciate any input. :)

[abrightmom]

We use CLE and Math Mammoth here. I like both although MM is my favorite, hands down. I'll share my thoughts in-line....

So, I decided to get CLE Math. I ordered gr 1 and gr 4, the first half. I think I want to go with CLE full-time (though putting us behind now since starting late). But, part of me feels like I will miss out on what MM has to offer (we use it now and i have the whole light blue series). How do I figure out what to supplement? I'm primarily wanting to use MM's conceptual teaching.

Why are you switching from CLE to MM, especially for your oldest? Generally speaking, if a math program is working well for a child then you don't switch. Is your oldest doing well with MM4? For the record, my 10 year old 4th grader is using MM 4th grade. :001_smile: Personally, I would never ask my kiddo to use CLE and MM. My first choice is MM and if it doesn't work for a child then I'd defer to CLE. It is possible to cherry pick concepts from MM but you really have to buckle down with the materials and pull out precisely what you want. It will take you some time and effort. If you really LIKE MM and it's working then save yourself the trouble and stay with it.

 

I'm also stressed about my "2nd" grader who is extremely behind in math and reading and, well, everything... How do I get him up to speed? Start somewhere in the first grade level, memorize his addition facts and push through trying to get through 2nd grade stuff? I just want him to be on level, like starting 3rd grade math in 3 grade. :tongue_smilie: How did I let him get so behind? Sigh. My fault mostly...

My 2nd grader is 8 and he's doing 2nd grade math. It took him awhile to begin to "get math" so we held him back a grade. He truly was NOT ready and I didn't care to try to "fit" him into a grade level. He is working at his level. I think with your child you need to have the mentality that you work at your CHILD's level. There is no sense in pushing a child that young. You should simply work where he is at and take it one day at a time. My biggest piece of advice is to work consistently. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Day by day by day, in manageable sessions, you will get there. Grade designations are one size fits all boxes and you ought not put your child in one unless he fits :D

 

Also, do you buy the teacher's manual? It looks like mostly an answer key (4th grade). If you are referring to CLE then YES. You absolutely MUST have the Teacher's Manual. I can't imagine teaching CLE without it. Now, I haven't taught 4th grade so unless the format changes in 4th grade then get the manual. In the lower levels of CLE the manual is mandatory. Math Mammoth is a worktext, as you know, and the instructions are woven throughout the student materials. I love that format, personally. But, CLE has all of the teaching material separated into the manual (along with the answers).

 

Anyways, all that to say I'm just really needing to figure out how to nicely combine the two without doing too much. I would appreciate any input. :)

This is going to be very personal for you and your children. YOU have to decide how much is enough/too much and it will look different for every child. CLE and MM are both complete/thorough although they teach math very differently (IMHO). I find doing two math programs to be too much with my kids. I don't have the time in a day and they don't have the endurance. Now, if I was teaching two kids I might think differently :D. Anyhow, in your case I have no specific counsel. You should choose one main program (CLE is what you are leaning toward) and then look through the MM chapters and pull out what you want to. You may want to look at Math Mammoth Blue as it divides the work into TOPICS that span grade levels. You may find this easier to work with as a supplement.

 

[boscopup]

Meet your children where they are, ignoring the number on the book. Make forward progress.

 

My friend's DD started CLE200 halfway through fall of 3rd grade. That was where she was. They plugged through it, then the light bulb came on, and they were able to move faster. She's in 5th grade now, still finishing up the 4th grade books, but she's almost â€at grade levelâ€. Last year she took the SAT10, and despite being over 6 months â€behind grade levelâ€, she actually scored quite well on the math portion - over 50%. CLE has an advanced scope and sequence.

 

Give your child a good foundation, and let them move forward. They'll get there. :)

[lorisuewho]

Why are you switching programs? Is there something you hope to get out of one that you don't get out of the other?

 

We use CLE for the spiral review. I do believe the manuals are completely necessary, because that is where the teaching is listed, especially in the lower grades.

 

I also use Rightstart or MEP for teaching more conceptual math. The balance is tricky.

 

I would analyze what your goals are to help you figure out how to use one with the other.

[dereksurfs]

Yes, I agree with abrightmom and boscopup's comments.

 

We use CLE, own MM and have also used MUS. We actually started with MUS but our girls weren't retaining what they were learning. During that time we purchased a full set of the MM elementary years. But it was still too mastery based. So we looked for more of a spiral approach and went with CLE. This fits their learning style much more as it allows then to work on a concept, then come back to it. While at the same time CLE also introduces advanced concepts earlier on.

 

I think if we have trouble in an area we could use MM to suppliment targeted topics. Though we haven't needed that yet. Instead we're using other supplimentals like Hands-on-Equations (HoE) and Dreambox.

 

Don't get too hung up on the grade level as childrens' brains develop in spurts vs. a straight line. Slow down where the child needs more practice and speed where things are grasped easily. Be consistent with daily math time and the progress will come. The one thing that helped us accelerate math for ds11 last year was to give him daily assignments vs. simply daily time to work on math. So if he finished his assignments a bit early he had more playtime. If however it took longer he put in the extra time to get it done, like his other subjects really. You'll have to gage the child's ability to determining what their pace should be: 1, 1.5, or 2 lessons per day.

Edited October 16, 2012 by dereksurfs

[TracyP]

No, you don't *need* the TM for 4th grade like you do for 1st. But the TM is where the conceptual teaching is. If you really want to use just CLE, I would buy the TM and use it. I still don't think it is as good as MM in that department, but it will help. If you want an example: peek at lesson 1 in LU 404. You will see that it just shows the formula for changing a mixed number to improper fraction. The TM will give you 2 examples to use to illustrate and teach the concept. OTOH, MM has 4 pages, complete with pictures, devoted to teaching this.

 

Don't worry about your 2nd grader. Just let him get started and I'm sure he will catch up in his own time.:001_smile:

 

I use both programs concurrently w/o trying to line them up for my dd. As of right now we do CLE two days per week and MM the other three.

[LAmom]

Thank you so much for the advice you all have given already. To answer some questions, I'm not officially switching yet, trying to find what is a good match for them. I don't quite get how to know if a child needs spiral or mastery. My dd is doing ok with mm4. She generally does not like doing math and gets bored doing the same topic day after day, usually for more than one week. I thought she might do better with spiral math though I, personally, have liked the way MM teaches concepts. I guess I'm just taking a peek at CLE to try and figure out if we like it better. I feel also that it may give more accountability for me to do flash cards and review.

 

I get to not focus on grade level but working with the child where they are at. Just hard to do, you know? Also, I feel like using both would get messy or overkill or ?? But, it is hard to know what will work best without having tried the different types.

[LaraH]

We haven't used MM, but my son does really well with the spiral approach and a little of everything so CLE is working well for now. We are also ignoring the levels, but I am skipping lessons and progressing quickly if I feel he knows the stuff or doesn't need much practice. We do Life of Fred elementary for something different and the two seem to work really well together. We also play games and just try to use math in everyday life.

[dereksurfs]

Thank you so much for the advice you all have given already. To answer some questions, I'm not officially switching yet, trying to find what is a good match for them. I don't quite get how to know if a child needs spiral or mastery. My dd is doing ok with mm4. She generally does not like doing math and gets bored doing the same topic day after day, usually for more than one week. I thought she might do better with spiral math though I, personally, have liked the way MM teaches concepts. I guess I'm just taking a peek at CLE to try and figure out if we like it better. I feel also that it may give more accountability for me to do flash cards and review.

Our daughters felt the same way in a mastery program. When we had them *try out* CLE they really both liked it more. I suggest letting her simply give it a try. Its a very affordable program to test out like this. Then see what she thinks. Our dds really like the variety which CLE provides. Its less boring than mastery for them. That said ds11 thrived in a mastery program - MUS. So it really does depend on the child.

[LAmom]

Ok. Well, I'll try to use both and see what works best. I'm new to this whole conceptual way of doing math so I have myself second guessing everything. Should they be adding that way, should they be counting on fingers, etc.? What's the goal? To understand how to get the answer, to get the answer correct and in a reasonable amount of time? Maybe I should primarily teach MM and add in CLE on other days? :confused: Maybe I'm over thinking. No, I'd never do that.

 

Some kind of chart diagramming conceptual vs traditional math and the differences in the way "they" teach math would be helpful. And something saying how to teach addition, subtracting, etc.

[abrightmom]

Some kind of chart diagramming conceptual vs traditional math and the differences in the way "they" teach math would be helpful. And something saying how to teach addition, subtracting, etc.

 

:grouphug: Math is a tough subject to teach for many of us (me, me, me!). HANDS DOWN I believe Math Mammoth is the best choice for helping you learn how to teach. I just LOVE Maria's step by step approach to teaching math. CLE is a nice program; structured; organized; thorough. But, I'm spoiled by MM and my hope is to have all my kids using it even if it means we slow down with my slower students.... I find myself transferring concepts learned in MM over to teaching with CLE.

 

Hang in there Mom. It can take awhile to figure all of this out. But, try really hard not to panic and not to jump ship too soon. Minimize the jumping back and forth if at all possible. Math can be a thrill for some kids (and Moms) and for others it's a slog (me, me, me!) requiring day by day persistence. :D

[campmom]

I just wanted to say that I bought CLE grade 2 this year for my boys,(3rd grade) we were doing RS and MUS along with some MM. CLE has helped me do the flash cards systematically ( you could just buy the flashcards because the directions for using them are in the box) and I have one who loves the timed drills. I had calculadder and used it sporadically. So I have seen a huge improvement with the retention of the facts. Although I realize I could have done this with just the flash cards and calculadder. They like the math but it is all mostly review for them there have been a few new things. I am still doing RS lessons a few each week, I do love, love, love how RS teaches and they do very well with it, but I needed something they could do if I didn't have time to teach the RS lesson. I also own the Light Blue MM and what I have done with it is to print out certain chapters like time or measurement etc. I staple the chapter together and have them work one page per day until that chapter is done or if it is a long chapter I will have another chapter printed also so that they can have some variety, so far this is working well. But we are doing CLE alittle behind so it is fairly easy for them, I think it would be to much work if they were learning alot of new concepts at the same time. I love having RS and MM handy so I can look ahead to how they teach different concepts, it is not how I learned math but it makes so much sense- I always wanted to know the why of math. I hope my boys will understand the why and not just the how. I hope this makes some sense, I just wanted to share how I am using the 3 programs.

[Mommy22alyns]

I use CLE, but have used some of MM's topical books for another way of looking at things. CLE works the best for us though.

[lea1]

We finished MM 1st grade and we are now going through CLE's 1st grade. We are moving through it pretty quickly right now but I felt my sons needed it because they sometimes struggled with MM. They are liking CLE much better than MM. I like it better because it walks me through how to teach everything much better than MM did. It also tells me when to use the flash cards and the speed drills, which my sons needed and I needed the reminder to do it each day.

 

Another thing I am really appreciating with CLE is how they teach something in mulitple ways. For example, today they were teaching about 26 and they showed it with blocks (two stacks of 10 and 6 singles or 'ones') and with numbers (10+10+1+1+1+1+1+1) and with coins (2 dimes and 6 pennies). I really like how they are showing it in mulitple ways and tying the concepts all together because I'm not sure both of my sons really got that with MM, since MM covers these topics in a more isolated fashion.

 

I had to take 4 semesters of Calculus in college and I have always gotten math pretty easily but I still have a hard time teaching or explaining it to my children. For me, the way CLE walks me through that is wonderful. I always understood what MM was trying to teach but I could not teach it or explain it in a way my children understood. They definitely understand the way CLE teaches it. But unfortunately I would not have known this until I tried each of them. When we started MM I thought we had found "the one", the math program that we would stick with for years. Oh well. Live and learn.:tongue_smilie:

[garddwr]

Thank you so much for the advice you all have given already. To answer some questions, I'm not officially switching yet, trying to find what is a good match for them. I don't quite get how to know if a child needs spiral or mastery. My dd is doing ok with mm4. She generally does not like doing math and gets bored doing the same topic day after day, usually for more than one week. I thought she might do better with spiral math though I, personally, have liked the way MM teaches concepts. I guess I'm just taking a peek at CLE to try and figure out if we like it better. I feel also that it may give more accountability for me to do flash cards and review.

 

I get to not focus on grade level but working with the child where they are at. Just hard to do, you know? Also, I feel like using both would get messy or overkill or ?? But, it is hard to know what will work best without having tried the different types.

 

We use Math Mammoth in a non-linear fashion, so we don't work on the same topic day after day. I buy the printed worktexts because it's easier for me to keep track of that way--I will assign between 1 and 3 pages each day, depending on how dense the problems on a page are or how challenging a concept is for the child. We move back and forth between sections--for example, today dd9 did a page of addition problems and a page on converting liquid measurements. Tomorrow she may do two pages of geometry, or a page of division. When both sides of a workbook page are completed, I snip off the top corner with scissors--that way it's easy to see what has been done and what has not.

[SnMomof7]

We use CLE, own MM and have also used MUS. We actually started with MUS but our girls weren't retaining what they were learning. During that time we purchased a full set of the MM elementary years. But it was still too mastery based. So we looked for more of a spiral approach and went with CLE. This fits their learning style much more as it allows then to work on a concept, then come back to it. While at the same time CLE also introduces advanced concepts earlier on.

 

Well, this is us too. MUS for 2 years, then tried MM, moving to CLE this year. So far so good. DD LOVES The timed drills (???) and she's always been one to freak out when timed. I don't know, but she's digging it. We actually went back to the beginning of 2nd and are moving forward from there. Lots of review, a few little gaps here and there, good for building her confidence.

[julikins]

I also tried MUS with my son in 1st grade and he didn't get it. (It has been wonderful with my older daughter--she thrives on mastery--but hasn't worked for him). I tried MM and he got overwhelmed with so much on each page and the same topic for so long. So I took a break from a formal program and taught him counting money and time with a workbook from Sam's while I researched what would be best for him. I ended up landing on CLE and have been so happy with it since. Math isn't a struggle with him. It's deceptive-- it seems so slow but he's learned so much more than he did with the other two. He does well with the flashcards, loves the speed drills, does well with all of the teaching.

 

The TM is absolutely necessary, and I appreciate it so much. My son is happy, we speed up when I see he's doing well, and slow down when he's struggling. I feel like CLE has been a blessing in our home and am looking into the other subjects now too.

[Wabi Sabi]

Is there a specific reason why you're using two full, complete math programs instead of just sticking with one? We tried to do MM and Miquon last year. As much as I love the concept behind Miquon it just wasn't working for my ds. He also wasn't doing particularly well with two different programs, he couldn't easily switch back and forth. Turns out that he's the kind of kid who needs to stick with one program and do it very well/thoroughly. He has excelled since we chose just ONE program and decided to just stick with it.

[Paul493]

Meet your children where they are, ignoring the number on the book. Make forward progress.

[LAmom]

Is there a specific reason why you're using two full, complete math programs instead of just sticking with one? We tried to do MM and Miquon last year. As much as I love the concept behind Miquon it just wasn't working for my ds. He also wasn't doing particularly well with two different programs, he couldn't easily switch back and forth. Turns out that he's the kind of kid who needs to stick with one program and do it very well/thoroughly. He has excelled since we chose just ONE program and decided to just stick with it.

 

 

I'm not planning on using both completely. I thought I would try out CLE as it is spiral and I thought my daughter would do better with it. She does ok with MM but is bored and finds it tedious to just repeat the same thing day after day for a week or so. I have noticed in the updated MM Maria has suggested to mix things up. I could try that. I haven't looked that closely at CLE yet but was hoping to use that with the conceptual part of MM as a supplement. I'm just overwhelmed with trying to supplement! :)